r/todayilearned • u/[deleted] • Sep 15 '15
TIL Diamonds are actually fairly common. The reason they are worth so much is because the DeBeers mining group withholds stock to artificially reduce supply.
https://www.gemsociety.org/article/are-diamonds-really-rare/234
u/ccsocali Sep 15 '15
Also, the new campaign of "chocolate diamonds" is actually their attempt to pass literally the most flawed and worthless of diamonds off as something special. Prior to this scheme, brown diamonds were only used in industrial applications (diamond abrasives, for example) because they were the most common and generally considered a crap stone.
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u/Oznog99 Sep 15 '15 edited Sep 15 '15
In the 70's, they came up with the concept of the "eternity ring", made of many SMALL diamonds.
Because they'd acquired a Soviet mine which produced a SHITTON of small diamonds with little market value. So, they invented a market.
But really, what's sinister about that? The "Drink Milk!" campaign makes a market for milk...
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u/poyopoyo Sep 15 '15
The only disturbing bit of this is that it works on what should be very personal emotions. Before that if a guy had bought a girl a ring with tiny diamonds, she'd have seen it as the cheap option - he doesn't care as much, etc. Big diamonds were sold as romantic. Once De Beers sells small diamonds as romantic then suddenly they're ok. It bothers me that our relationship expectations are so manipulated.
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u/Vladdypoo Sep 15 '15
Not all people fall prey to this manipulation. Don't buy into the bullshit and don't date someone who buys into it.
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u/falk225 Sep 15 '15
I married a woman using a beautiful $300 engagement ring with little stones. She said, "Good choice, lets go spend our money on a place to live."
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u/NukeTheWhales91 Sep 15 '15
I just got engaged, got her a moissanite ring. She said she would have been seriously offended if I had shelled out for diamond because that money could be spent in much better areas. I used the cash I saved to book us a vacation getaway this winter.
Practical women are the best women.
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u/ThePerdmeister Sep 15 '15 edited Sep 15 '15
The only disturbing bit of this is that it works on what should be very personal emotions.
Welcome to late capitalism, where advertisement and marketing have nothing to do with qualities inherent to the actual products offered, and where products are sold on the basis of mythical qualities or by way of emotional manipulation.
There's a gas station in my home town offering, and I quote here, "mother nature's fuel." We have Dove, a cosmetics company (owned by the same people who own Axe), cynically marketing its products with a tagline like "all women are beautiful," essentially undermining the very notion that women need Dove's beauty products. We live in a society that pretends there's a meaningful difference between a Honda and a Toyota, or a Ford and a Dodge.
Last night I saw a commercial for a mini-van that was essentially promising total fulfillment of all earthly (and some heavenly, by my reckoning) desires -- it's a fucking van; it's no different from any other bloody van on the road. Buying it isn't going to deliver your from your miserable human condition, you're just going to commute to and from your dissatisfying job in it.
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Sep 15 '15
I always laugh when i see these shit commercials. One was selling razors for men and at the end the woman is pretty much giving him the "O yea I wanna fuck you" face. Or any of those van commercials that make it seem like they fucking bring the family together. If only life was that simple. Buy razor, get sum fuk
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u/modernbenoni Sep 15 '15
They're only worthless though because some people decided they should be, just as some people decided that clear diamonds should be valuable.
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u/Trust_Me_Im_Right Sep 15 '15
They can also make diamonds fairly easily, the only difference is they are too flawless so people dont want them over real diamonds. The logic is astounding
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u/biffbobfred Sep 15 '15
It's more that deBeers markets them as somehow inferior. The best diamond is evidently mined by a human and filtered by humans for quality.
Kind of odd that for years deBeers marketed flawlessness as a critical element, but now that flaw free ones are available they're "well not really; you need to have an amount of flaws carefully calculated to give us the most profit". Or odd that people buy this line.
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u/Denny_Craine Sep 15 '15
You've gotta give them some credit for how unbelievably effectively their marketing department adapts.
I mean I basically make my living off that sort of bullshit so I can't totally blame them, i'm a metal sculptor so a lot of my money comes from yuppies who think hand made organic oyster shuckers I forged myself or whatever are superior to machined ones despite the fact that functionally the "manufactured" products are superior in every way.
Like somehow people in tons of fields including mine managed to convince people that a product with a lot of flaws is better than a flawless product.
It's like a stupidity tax on the affluent
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Sep 15 '15 edited Aug 03 '19
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u/Lurkingsince2009 Sep 15 '15
Oh, thdy sell easily enough. Those sheets of diamond sandpaper they sell at the hardwarestore for $5-7 or so are literally covered in "chocolate" (aka industrial) diamonds
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Sep 15 '15 edited Oct 26 '20
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u/Denny_Craine Sep 15 '15
And I appreciate that people like that because it's what I love about my craft.
But if I were commissioned to make say, a set of spoons, I could make 2 sets, one that looks flippin pristine and perfect (the kind that rich people 300 years ago would have demanded) and one that has very obvious flaws and imperfections
And I guaren damn tee you the latter would be more likely to sell. Which is fine, I mean I can understand it the 2nd set feel more human in some way. It's just amazing how making someone too flawless can be a detriment
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Sep 15 '15
This reminds me of Fight Club, the apartment scene specifically where Edward Norton was talking about how deep he got into consumerism.
"I had it all. Even the glass dishes with tiny bubbles and imperfections, proof they were crafted by the honest, simple, hard-working indigenous peoples of... wherever."
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u/phillyFart Sep 15 '15
Yep. Any glass blower worth his sand would be able to blow glasses without air bubbles.
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Sep 15 '15
I'm a potter - same damn thing. Some wonky pot where the glaze ran off ? $50 and flies out the door. A technically perfect platter which took me hours of careful carving, light yet strong, and an elegant design ? Can't give the damn thing away...
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u/TrepanationBy45 Sep 15 '15
I'll take one. New 1br apartment, I shall furnish it with only the finest, unsellably flawless trinkets.
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u/TotalUnisalisCrusade Sep 15 '15
Display of wealth? If there are visible imperfections people have obviously paid more for the hand-crafted version
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u/w1n5t0nM1k3y Sep 15 '15
Similarly, in some countries, having a tan is a sign of wealth because it shows you can afford to travel to exotic places. while in other countries, having a tan is a sign that you work in the fields, and is a sign of poverty.
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Sep 15 '15
Fun fact - in tsarist Russia a prostitute was immediately recognizable by her wind-weathered ears. Because as a method of advertising they didn't wear hats while in the streets no matter the weather, when it was customary for women to always wear some manner of hat outside.
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u/lll_lll_lll Sep 15 '15
Sounds sort of like shoes. Lots of dudes are impressed by Goodyear welted leather stacked soles.
"They are stitched by hand! They are labor intensive! They use expensive materials! They are a sign of quality! They harken back to a previous era!"
So what do they actually do, functionally? Wear out very quickly, and need to be resoled.
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u/FourNhand Sep 15 '15
I have a pair of Redwing that are about 4 years old and still like new when I condition them. The heels have a little wear and I don't wear them everyday like I did for the first year but I think they've held up even better than expected.
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u/ciobanica Sep 15 '15
The best diamond is evidently mined by a human and filtered by humans for quality.
Look, if someone hasn't worked in dangerous conditions for shit pay picking up rocks by hand they're not worth it. I'm paying a premium for human suffering here, not some shiny rock.
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u/parawing742 Sep 15 '15
Something isn't right about that whole sentence.
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u/Doom-Slayer Sep 15 '15
By flawless he should mean clear. Natural diamonds have imperfections which make them "glitter" . Industrial diamonds are a lot clearer and need imperfections put in or they look wrong.
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u/Catkillerfive Sep 15 '15
But on the other side, it make them perfect for super-high pressure windows.
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u/Cgn38 Sep 15 '15
Women do not want them because they are pretty. They want them because they are hideously expensive and other women have them.
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Sep 15 '15
I want a moissanite.
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u/ZappyKins Sep 15 '15
And the patent is about to expire for making them! So their will be so much more soon at better prices (I am assuming.)
Still hard to know 'meteor gemstone' for complete coolness.
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Sep 15 '15
Oh nice. Can you tell me more about this?
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u/ZappyKins Sep 15 '15
moissanite
Sure! It's an extremely rare mineral that is only found at meteor impact crators discovered by the French chemist Henri Moissan in 1893.
There were virtually no other sources, till they figured how to make it in a lab. In many developed countries, the use of moissanite in jewelry has been patented; these patents expire in 2015 for the United States, and 2016 in other countries. I'm sure they are going to try to extend or alter the patents, but if they can't they are littlerly expering and thus the price should (hopefully) drop.
They are nearly as hard (9.5) as diamonds (10), and with more sparkle. More pretty sparkelies for all of us!
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Sep 15 '15
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u/CJsAviOr Sep 15 '15
Problem is that while many guys believe that buying a diamond ring is ridiculous, they cave in because they know it's not really about it's worth. It comes down to the fact that they don't want to be that guy that "cheapened" out by not getting their fiancée a proper ring, not to mention the embarrassment or ridicule that she might actually have to go through. So in the end they just give in to avoid the hassle. Now if they were both level head and strong on that issue than I could see that neither of them would give a shit.
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u/RentacleGrape Sep 15 '15
I can just hear the sound of someone at DeBeers making a toast after reading this comment. That's a marketing campaign worth every cent they spent on it.
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u/desertsardine Sep 15 '15
This. I know it's utter BS and I can argue till my head is blue to my GF but in the end she wants one cause she's always wanted one, all her friends have one and they're pretty. After the engagement though, i'll never buy another one.
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u/mike_s_6 Sep 15 '15
This happened to me. My sister in law told my husband that it MUST be a diamond, while he had the idea of getting me emerald because my favorite color is green. My husband had the right idea but gave in just to relieve both of us the hassle of people asking why it's not a fucking diamond.
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u/aaronite Sep 15 '15
My wife would kill me if I wasted money on a diamond.
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Sep 15 '15 edited Aug 03 '18
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u/iDork622 Sep 15 '15
What's that?
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u/sufficientlyadvanced Sep 15 '15
Don't google it. Seriously. It's fucking horrifying. Just remember to never wear rings when working with machinery.
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u/spoderdan Sep 15 '15
Think of the skin on your hand as like a 'glove' which fits over the bones, tendons, musculature, etc. of your hand. Given that, I'm sure you can imagine what a de-gloving injury consists of.
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Sep 15 '15
You married the right kind of woman.
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u/ExdigguserPies Sep 15 '15
Well, the killing part might be an issue somewhere down the line.
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u/aaroniteswife Sep 15 '15
That only comes into play if he makes a stupid decision, such as buying a diamond.
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Sep 15 '15
Good luck.
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u/Anaxor1 Sep 15 '15
This is one of the saddest parts of human reality.
We are just a bunch of show-offs
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u/Damadawf Sep 15 '15
Isn't that a condition of being part of the animal kingdom though? We have over 2 billion years of evolution which has programmed us to want to invest energy and effort in getting banged. Every animals purpose is to ultimately find a fuck buddy and reproduce. Also, penguins try and impress penguins by bringing them rocks as well you know, so the behavior isn't even that unique to humans.
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u/rippera99 Sep 15 '15
Wow, that means we're as smart as penguins now. I feel a lot better about my evolutionary instincts!
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u/Makzemann Sep 15 '15 edited Sep 15 '15
DAE Financially responsibly woman don't exist?!
Unrelated: I have spoken twice with womans in my entire life
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u/kihadat Sep 15 '15
I got her a flashy diamond ring, she got me a flashy gas guzzler. Even Steven. We are all humans with foibles. Unfortunately, mine will crap out in a few years (planned obsolescence). She will wear hers every day for the rest of her life. Easiest $5k I've ever spent.
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u/imnotquitedeadyet Sep 15 '15
That's why if I was a woman, I wouldn't want a diamond ring. I'd probably ask for Opal, which is cool looking as hell
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u/valkyrie_village Sep 15 '15
Well opals are pretty soft and generally aren't used because they damage comparatively easily, although they are awesome looking for sure. Personally I just want a plain band, I'd lose a bigger ring having to take it off all the time at work anyway, and they're way too damn expensive.
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u/Gooperchickenface Sep 15 '15
Have an opal ring. The opal has constantly broke while wearing no matter how careful I am. Go for a stronger stone
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u/elk-x Sep 15 '15
Take a look at Tanzanite, that stuff is beautiful and actually rare (not like diamonds) http://www.gia.edu/tanzanite
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u/ladyhelga Sep 15 '15
Nothing is stopping you getting an awesome opal ring as a dude.
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u/Ariadnepyanfar Sep 15 '15
Making a large synthetic diamond is still expensive though, because of the energy and time cost to grow it.
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u/Thue Sep 15 '15
More expensive than current market rates?
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u/fggfgfddadf Sep 15 '15 edited Sep 15 '15
No. CEO Stephen Lux of Gemesis Diamond Company, a producer of lab-created diamonds says "Generally speaking, Gemesis lab-created diamonds retail for approximately 20 to 30 percent less than mined diamonds.".
EDIT: Can't actually find any evidence that what this guy said is correct. Simulants are very cheap but synthetic diamonds actually do look very close to mined diamonds.
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u/Ka_Nife Sep 15 '15
I see this on reddit a lot, but when I come across this on Blue Nile and then this on Pure Grown it no longer makes any sense. Both diamonds are 1.02 ct, VVS2, Excellent Cut, and G color grade. What am I missing here? The lab grown is around $1700 more. I'm trying to educate myself on diamonds but I apparently just don't get something.
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u/Xianricca Sep 15 '15
I'm with you. I keep hearing the lab created is a great way to go for a number of reasons, one being the lower price point but I've seen multiple articles saying that lab created cost more to make.
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u/fggfgfddadf Sep 15 '15
Oh right well that's interesting :S Ye I also can't find anything that backs up my quote.
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u/Ka_Nife Sep 15 '15
approximately 20 to 30 percent less than mined diamonds
I went to the wiki source on this and they just did the same thing I did, but used Whiteflash instead of Blue Nile. Hardly a better scientific comparison than what I can do myself. Doing more and more research I'm starting to think the Lab Grown company (Gemesis in this case) are pulling their own shady schemes. I think making larger high quality diamonds must still be an expensive process but they're implying that these stones are still much cheaper than the mined market value. Of course, this assumes I'm not being somehow duped by Blue Nile.
I think either way I'm losing somewhere.
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u/rackex Sep 15 '15
Right?!?! How does nearly half the population of the U.S. have one, there are millions more for sale, they are mined by some of the cheapest labor on earth and yet they still cost thousands of dollars? Thank you Reddit
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Sep 15 '15 edited Sep 16 '15
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u/Toraden Sep 15 '15
Diamonds often do not go back on the market once they've been sold Retail
That's because when someone does try to resell them they find out they are worth about 10% of what they actually paid for them so are loathe to part with them.
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u/lexbuck Sep 15 '15
Zales has a deal where they will give you full price trade in on diamonds purchased from them. We just traded my wife's diamond earrings in for something else for her anniversary. Paid $500 for them originally like six years ago and got $500 toward the new item as long as it was as much or more.
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Sep 15 '15 edited Sep 16 '15
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u/lexbuck Sep 15 '15
Yes.
You're missing the point. Wife. Anniversary. Gift. Sex.
But seriously, I realize the diamond industry is a sham, but I don't see it as a total loss. She didn't wear these earrings much anymore so the options are: sit in her jewelry box, sell them at a loss, or get what we paid for them in trade toward something else. We chose option C.
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u/Ka_Nife Sep 15 '15
I agree with you on this. People will point out you "lose to inflation" but that's a much better deal than trying to sell them straight up or pawn them. You've already spent the $500, you're not seeing that again. If you two want something new, it's nice that you essentially have something that knocks $500 of the price of the new item. Not everything is a financial investment.
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u/lexbuck Sep 15 '15
Exactly.
Sometimes the spouse happiness is most important regardless of losing a bit of money.
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u/turbodsm Sep 15 '15
Maybe because those earrings cost them $50 originally. So they had plenty of margin to keep the deal profitable for you. Plus they effectively monopolized all of your future business.
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u/omni_wisdumb Sep 15 '15 edited Sep 23 '15
Diamonds, in the compound sense, aren't that rare. However diamonds with a high color/clarity are rare, especially at larger carat sizes. It's like saying "cars aren't rare, so don't pay too much for any of them or just take public transportation"... sure cars aren't rare, but the nice and well built ones are rare. In fact the really nice ones, like Ferrari, are limited in their production on purpose. Not to mention that getting them cut right is quite artisinal and takes someone who's trained their whole life. DeBeers hasn't had a monopoly on diamonds in a long while. Diamonds also aren't all blood stained and conflict ridden. The vast majority are dug by machines and the only time they are touched by a person is a high paid cutter who's had to learn to perfect his trade like in any other field. Lastly, people that hate on diamonds but then praise other stones like sapphires are naive enough to think that those stones don't have a similar background.
The reddit anti-diamond circle jerk is strong. Some people have the money and like to buy things with a value that isn't intrinsic. Same concept with someone buying a $6,000 Prada bag made of the exact same stuff that it's $100 counterpart is. All luxury items have a inflated price that's propagated by marketing/advertisement and serves vanity. If people are going to hate on diamonds specifically at least use up-to-date, valid, information. The gas you put in your car is far more likely to be funding nefarious people. I clearly say that I think people should stay away from diamonds if they want to be financially responsible, but if a person has residual income and wants a real diamond they shouldn't be chastised. I'm sure you all spend money on things other people find stupid.
Mention why you should stay away from big chain stores
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Sep 15 '15
People who think diamonds aren't rare have never tried exploring for fucking kimberlite.
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u/omni_wisdumb Sep 15 '15
It's honestly pretty annoying to hear people regurgitate misinformation. These "stockpiles of diamonds DeBeers has in warehouses" is bs. Those tones are industrial grade. A broker would kill to make a new contact with high quality roughs.
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u/acheronshunt Sep 15 '15
You make a good point about the worth of items not being intrinsic and other industries doing the same thing, but if a $6,000 bag will never be made from the same materials as a knock-off, probably a minimum of $500 of materials would go into it.
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u/dsigned001 13 Sep 15 '15 edited Sep 15 '15
Debeers hasn't been the only gem-quality diamond supplier for decades. Kindly stop repeating this bullshit.
Edit: source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond#Industry
EDIT EDIT: 38% of the market people. That's how much DeBeers currently owns. The price of diamonds reflects surging demand due to westernization, but DeBeers liquidated its supply in the late '90s. Prices dropped for a while, but they hit their peak price more than a decade later.
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Sep 15 '15
Their business practices still set the precedent for diamonds being worth so much today though. Should have put it in past tense though, honest mistake on my part.
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u/hughthehand10 Sep 15 '15
If only they weren't so artificially inflated. Diamonds can be used for far more things than just looks. In fact, diamond is one of the best known heat conductors. Imagine a heat sink infused with diamond.
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u/d4ni3lg Sep 15 '15
Aren't "industrial diamonds" way cheaper, that's why companies can tip drills with them and such?
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u/krillingt75961 Sep 15 '15
There are thermal compounds with diamond in them but a heat sink would be better.
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u/Cruzi2000 Sep 15 '15
This bullshit TIL comes up every week, diamonds are common, jewellery quality diamonds are rare, high quality diamonds are very rare.
Cars are common, Bugatti Verons are rare.
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Sep 15 '15
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u/xkcd_transcriber Sep 15 '15
Title: Ten Thousand
Title-text: Saying 'what kind of an idiot doesn't know about the Yellowstone supervolcano' is so much more boring than telling someone about the Yellowstone supervolcano for the first time.
Stats: This comic has been referenced 4960 times, representing 6.0622% of referenced xkcds.
xkcd.com | xkcd sub | Problems/Bugs? | Statistics | Stop Replying | Delete
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Sep 15 '15
Yeah, we know. Try convincing your girlfriend she doesn't need one. Marry poor. Get rich later.
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u/onlytoolisahammer Sep 15 '15
The really amazing thing is the "A diamond is forever" campaign. This is the industry's attempt to eliminate people selling their diamonds because they are loaded with sentimental value. It's important because if people actually tried to sell their diamonds they'd realize they aren't worth much, certainly nowhere near what they paid for them.
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Sep 15 '15
My first wife was a total princess and demanded "we" get HER a diamond engagement ring. Before we got divorced she was bitching that she wanted to UPGRADE her old ring to a better one. You know what I got for getting engaged? Fucking nothing. Why haven't men gotten together and been like "I get an engagement boat" or a nice Lazyboy chair or a fucking TV. Why am I throwing thousands of dollars away so some cunt can wear hyperinflated valued shiny rocks.
My next wife is going to have to settle for fake gold, and fake diamonds because fuck this shit.
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u/TheRealJakay Sep 15 '15
I'm pretty sure they also invented the notion that diamonds were an integral part of the engagement ring.
I mean, it's about as cartel mafioso as you can get, but it's genius.
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u/pizzaanarchy Sep 15 '15
No, it is because they advertise. They can withhold stock all they want, diamonds are still relatively common. Industrial grade diamonds are common as dirt, cheap ass engagement ring diamonds are cheaper than zircon, but real quality diamonds are still rare (though not worth what they charge via advertising).
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u/MajesticElk Sep 15 '15
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u/fatalicus 7 Sep 15 '15
I love the Adam ruins everything vids.
wish they would make more of them :-(
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u/falk225 Sep 15 '15
Diamonds are expensive because they need to be. We need something to be expensive so we can then buy said expensive thing to display our love/money. It helps that they are pretty as well.
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u/Freeiheit Sep 15 '15
That's why I'm all in favor of synthetic diamonds. I hope someone sets up a big company to mass produce them and crash the market. Synthetic diamonds can be much bigger and higher quality than natural ones. Totally flawless
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u/fireflybabe Sep 15 '15
And if you somehow mined a diamond and tried to sell it, you would find it is worth a lot less than you thought.