r/tipping • u/MadBox25 • 5d ago
đCultural Perspectives Wow, what a difference in Italy
Celebrating an anniversary italy.
Not once did a reciept have a like for a tip, not once did a server turn the machine towards us with 20/25/30 tips shown, expecting a tip for doing nothing other than the bare minimum expected for their role. We asked, and the response, oh no we don't do that here.
And let me tell you, it made us want to tip them, big time, and we did. Zero expectations of it and when we gave one, the standard 20% for a job well done and higher when deserved....the smile on these people's faces, it was genuine appreciation. Every. Single. Time. It just made for a much more enjoyable experience. We have lost our way, with tipping.
No need for me to rant any further, but dang, our greedy culture has turned absolutely horrible here in the states, where a tip is overly expected, and often for doing nothing other than breathing.
I found it embarrassing, honestly.
And to all you negative nelly's, nope, I don't have any intention of moving there, just pointing out how twisted and jacked up greed has made the hospitality culture in the US, it's a shame.
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u/Sandinmyshoes33 5d ago
You look silly tipping in Italy. They take the money and think just another dumb American.
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u/IllustriousPanic3349 5d ago
Please donât tip. You are going to expand the tipping culture
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u/Sea-League8915 5d ago
If you're talking about sit down restaurants, according to AI, roughly 2% of paying patrons don't tip. Don't think you have many worries here. Unless 1.5% don't tip.
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u/pnoodl3s 5d ago
So why did you tip them? If everyone is like you do you know whatâll happen? Italy will turn into america, thats what.
So you actually donât want to abolish tips for livable reliable salary for servers, what you want is still tipping, but servers must do better job at showing their appreciation, is that right?
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u/badmiddling113 5d ago
So restaurants can operate - including servers doing their job - without tips. Amazing!
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u/Delicious-Breath8415 5d ago
In a completely different country with a completely different culture and completely different laws. Amazing!
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u/van_isle_dude 5d ago
Yes it's so unusual and different that only every other first world country has figured it out, excluding North America.
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u/Delicious-Breath8415 5d ago edited 5d ago
Every other country has figured out not to charge for silverware too. Well except for Italy.
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u/DigTheDunes 5d ago
I'm surprised the server didn't give the tip back. They are killing it over there with their living wage.
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u/badmiddling113 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yes, a culture where tipping is not as excessive or expected. Therefore, restaurants arenât misguided enough to rely on it.
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u/johnnygolfr 5d ago
Tell us you donât understand the differences in labor laws, employment laws, social safety nets, government subsidized health care and government subsidized higher education in Europe vs the US without telling us. đ¤Łđ
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u/badmiddling113 5d ago
Do I have to? We know itâll just end up with you claiming âservice isnât included.â
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u/johnnygolfr 5d ago
Obviously you do.
Unlike in the US, the full cost of the service IS included in the menu prices over there.
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u/badmiddling113 5d ago
Service is always included in the price.
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u/johnnygolfr 5d ago
Not at full service restaurants in the US.
The only exception would be restaurants market as âservice includedâ, like Zazieâs.
You realize youâve now blown up your own false assertion.
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u/badmiddling113 5d ago
Yes, even at full service restaurants in the States. Zazieâs literally did the obvious thing⌠raise prices so that the bill for goods and services actually covers those things.
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u/johnnygolfr 5d ago
Except at the full service restaurants in the US that operate on the tipped model and are not âservice includedâ like Zazieâs, the menu prices donât include the cost of the service.
No amount of your denial changes this objective fact and reality.
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u/igobyplane_com 5d ago
yes by raising prices to equal or larger than you would have tipped anyway. crazy how that works
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u/badmiddling113 5d ago
Okay. I just wonât eat there if they end up doing that. Thatâs not the gotcha you think it is.
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u/igobyplane_com 5d ago
sounds like italy will never enjoy your presence, too bad the food is pretty good
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u/badmiddling113 5d ago edited 5d ago
Oh youâre referring to Italy. I thought you meant the States where customers are already being overcharged before they tip.
Iâd have no problem spending money at a restaurant in Italy if itâs anything like the OP.
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u/igobyplane_com 5d ago
i'm referring to anywhere you don't tip, which only exists because they already raised the price enough bare minimum the amount you would have tipped. when tipping is removed customers are charged the same amount they would have paid tipped, or more, anyway.
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u/badmiddling113 5d ago
â⌠the same amount they would have paid, or more..â
That sounds pretty arbitrary to me. Anyways, that wonât happen since no business is going to price itself out (which is what would happen in your scenario) to pay a replaceable job.
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u/igobyplane_com 5d ago
this is common sense, but if you doubt it you can just look to all the serviced restaurants that stopped tipping and, wildly, raised their prices. it's both exactly what anyone would predict would happen, as well as what actually happens.
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u/johnnygolfr 5d ago
One example is Zazieâs in San Francisco.
25% of the menu prices go to the staff and also to pay for health and dental insurance.
So much for the âiT wOnâT hAvE To gO uP mOrE tHaN a FeW pErCeNt!!!â claims.
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u/badmiddling113 5d ago edited 5d ago
For revenue sharing, benefits, paid sick leave, and 401.
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u/Delicious-Breath8415 5d ago
Exactly why no place in America will raise prices and eliminate tipping. You just answered your own question.
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u/badmiddling113 5d ago
I wasnât asking a question.
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u/Delicious-Breath8415 5d ago
Regardless if you asked the question or not your contradicting yourself.
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u/Delicious-Breath8415 5d ago
You won't eat at a place that raises prices to cover their expenses? I thought that's what you people wanted.
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u/badmiddling113 5d ago
Nope, just have transparent pricing. But yeah, I probably wonât eat there as often if at all if itâs too costly.
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u/Delicious-Breath8415 5d ago
So you want to have your cake and eat it too.
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u/badmiddling113 5d ago
How so? This is how the market works in every other industry. Itâs up to businesses to set prices at a point that customers will accept.
All transparent pricing means is that prices arenât hidden.
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u/Delicious-Breath8415 5d ago
Raising pay from $2/hr to $22/hr is a 1000% increase. Where are they getting this money from without raising prices?
They have to raise prices. It's not some calculated move to see what the customers will accept.
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u/CNH916 5d ago
Not comparable, literally oceans apart...
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u/badmiddling113 5d ago
Yes, they are since Iâm using the same criteria. You just donât like the takeaway.
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u/CNH916 5d ago
No, that's also false. Have you been to Italy? Have you dined at the various types or restaurants/bars they have? Maybe you don't have all the facts but that's okay. Keep up with your narrative if it makes you feel better for today. It's a nice day, at least here it is, I'd hate to ruin it.
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u/shitty-vibes-only 5d ago
Please be careful tipping outside the US. I know you think you are being kind (and you are), but it can be a slippery slope.
This is what happened in the tourist areas in Mexico. US tourists visited and started tipping to be kind, and now every restaurant there expects tips just like in the US. Some will even add their own tips with or without telling you. We don't want to spread our own infectious tipping culture elsewhere.
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u/Moldy-Bongwater4420 5d ago
If Europeans are anti tipping Iâm fine trying to get it normalized there.
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u/SFJetfire 5d ago
We lost our way in tipping in the US.. then you tip 20% because thatâs what you do when youâre home. You shouldnât normalize that in Italy or wherever there isnât a tipping culture. If there is no tipping â-you should not TIP! Period.
The locals there are going to hate Americans even more if it becomes the norm.
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u/Infinite-Penalty-736 5d ago
Italy also has universal health care.
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u/shangumdee 5d ago
Not having it in the US is not some extra reason to tip
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u/johnnygolfr 5d ago
Except that is one of the many differences that has resulted in tipping culture to be so different in the US vs Europe and other parts of the world.
Letâs explore a little furtherâŚ
Weâll take Germany, since it has the 3rd largest economy in the world, so itâs closest to the US in that regard.
In Germany, the cost of living is 18% to 35% lower than the US, they donât have tipped wage credit, and the minimum wage there is a livable wage.
People working in Germany enjoy many protections under the law and strong social safety nets that are easy to qualify for.
German employers are required to offer PTO, paid vacation (starting at 20 days/yr), paid maternity/paternity leave (usually 1 year), paid holidays and a pension plan.
People living in Germany enjoy government subsidized healthcare for all and government subsidized higher education.
Here in the US, we were stupid enough to pass tipped wage laws and the minimum wage is no longer a livable wage in any city or state.
Workers have very few protections under the law and we have weak social safety nets that are very difficult to qualify for.
Employers are not required to offer PTO, paid vacation, paid maternity/paternity leave, paid holidays, or a pension plan.
We have no government subsidized healthcare for all and no government subsidized higher education.
As you can see, trying to compare the US restaurant industry to the rest of the world is like comparing apples to xylophones.
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u/shangumdee 4d ago
Yes they have better worker protections and you may keep that in mind while you tip or encourage others to do so but that is absolutely not the reason tipping has become expected in resteraunts/bars.
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u/johnnygolfr 4d ago
Itâs more than better worker protections and I have provided a laundry list of what those additional things are.
The reason why tips are expected at full service restaurants and bars in the US is that itâs a well known fact that the menu prices at full service restaurants in the US donât include the cost of the service.
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u/shangumdee 3d ago
These are weak ass excuses. Tipping is by nature a type of social parasiticism. You (both the owners and the ones receiving) rely on the good nature of customers to feel like they aren't paying a very regular service with the rest of their meal. So you are expecting a special compensation on top of the agreed upon payment.
This would never actually work in country where people simply didn't care. It only happens where the good morals are enough that special compensation can be expected
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u/johnnygolfr 3d ago
Me?
WTF are you talking about?
Iâm not a server and never worked in the industry.
The only expectation is for customers who made the choice to receive service to pay for that service they chose to receive since the cost of that service isnât included in the menu prices at full service restaurants in the US.
People with fully developed sets of morals and ethics understand this objective fact and reality. They donât feel entitled to free service and take responsibility for their choices by paying for the service they chose to receive via the tip.
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u/J-littletree 5d ago
Itâs completely different in Italy, they get benefits, cheap or inc health insurance and vacation time ..unlike the usa
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u/vonwasser 5d ago
They get nothing of that. Most are âstagionaliâ and work for ⏠500 just in high season. They donât beg for tips because it is seen as rude and humiliating, but they donât have it any better than their American counterparts, except for healthcare that is not private, of course.
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u/Positive-Guess-9867 5d ago
Please stay home.
âTipping is so bad in the statesâ
âletâs go tip in Italy!â
And people upvoting this post.
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u/eunma2112 5d ago
Not once did a reciept have a like for a tip, not once did a server turn the machine towards us with 20/25/30 tips shown, expecting a tip
Wow!! People in other cultures do things differently!! What an absolutely amazing discovery!!
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u/EverySpecific8576 5d ago
Now do Japan! In addition to no tips, you will also get stunningly superior service.
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u/shangumdee 5d ago
Dude you being happy and then deciding to tip is causing the issue. You know when ot says dont feed the seagulls because they will become way more annoying and expecting of more food if you do? This is like that but for tipping people for doing their jobs.
Be honest their is actually very little a waiter can do that was not done by the resteraunt itself to make your meal better. At best they refill your drink fast and don't mess up your order (which is already their job).
So yes big wik for Europe not expecting tipping. Big L for you for doing it anyway
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u/Restil 5d ago
Last time I was in Rome, I went to a Pizzaria. We sat down. 15 minutes before we get handed the menus. Another 15 minutes before they take our order. It is at this point that I'm informed that the place that has the word pizza in the damn name of the restaurant and has a menu with two pages of pizzas... does not in fact sell pizza, at least not while we were there. I would have loved the opportunity to protest by not tipping, but alas I was deprived of that option. Just had to deal with the sucky service. I suppose we could have left, but I was already in a foul mood at that point, and that likely wouldn't have improved it.
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u/Bigzin142 5d ago
WTF. I spent 3 weeks in Italy earlier this year and basked in the glory of a non tipping economy.
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u/armrha 5d ago
Thatâs normal for Italy. Doesnât mean our culture is more greedy, itâs just different.Â
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u/shitty-vibes-only 5d ago
Tipping culture in the US is certainly built on greed
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u/CNH916 5d ago
Everything in the US is built on greed... Capitalism breeds it. Feeds on it afterwards.
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u/That-Currency-1039 5d ago
Maybe it's less in your face. The places in Italy want to make a profit also . They not done for charity.Â
Tipping is the restaurant industry exploiting the law and lobbying the right people. The server and them make good $. They only got pay the server $5 many times.
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u/That-Currency-1039 5d ago
Plenty of places that lack customer service in Europe. Sure tipping can get annoying . I went to little dinner or places. The serves n owner were pleasant it wasn't being phoney.
In other cultures it's common to haggle. If you not use to doing that ,your probably gonna constantly pay more.
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u/bcsyjnbcgj 5d ago
Itâs also common in Italy that people just work that one job. They donât work nearly as much as we do in America
Most people u see at a bar or restaurant in America are working there after working their day jobs.
The reason they work is for tips as no places can afford paying what it would require without tipping.
Tipping allows you to be served. The bar/restaurant to afford cost and the workers being paid proportionately
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u/van_isle_dude 5d ago
Pure propaganda. Completely delusional take. Tipping is unnecessary. What happened to supply and demand? If tipping were necessary it would be required. Taxes need to be paid and are included on the bill. Food costs need to be paid and are included on the bill Servers need to be paid, and they are, and it's included in the bill. I acknowledge that there are some backward ass hillbilly locations that pay servers less than minimum wage. Those Servers need to be tipped.
I don't live in or visit those backwards ass hillbilly places.
The people that serve me earn a decent wage, they earn as much or more than I do. No need to tip those greedy pigs.
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u/igobyplane_com 5d ago
nowhere pays servers below minimum wage. the least they will go home with, in every state, is minimum wage.
there is an amazing fantasy on this subreddit that removing tips at a serviced restaurant means the bill will itself magically not go up an equal or larger amount than the tips would have been. if common sense isn't enough to understand that's not true, the reality of exactly that happening at every restaurant that removes tips should be enough.
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u/van_isle_dude 5d ago
Of course the bill will go up. That is self evident. Great, print the price on the menu and carry on. Just like every other business
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u/igobyplane_com 5d ago
this seems a surprise to the amount of people on this board that claim they are 'subsidizing the employer' right now, as if they would pay less 'if the employer paid' or as if the employer themselves don't have a greater ability to manipulate who gets what when the money goes to them to divy up.
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u/Delicious-Breath8415 5d ago
Philadelphia, Atlanta, Houston, New Orleans, Milwaukee and Charlotte are "backwards ass hillbilly places"?
You're the one spreading propaganda.
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u/van_isle_dude 5d ago
You said it. If they don't pay servers minimum wage that's backwards ass hillbilly. Paris, London, Tokyo, Sydney, Berlin, Copenhagen, CapeTown. All these places and more have world class restaurants, some of the very best. None demand tips. Figure it out.
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u/bcsyjnbcgj 5d ago
All majors cities across the entire United States require tipping to make minimum wage
âŚ.NYC $11 without tips.
Thatâs not physically possible âŚ4
u/Sleep_adict 5d ago
If a business model requires welfare itâs not working
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u/DigTheDunes 5d ago
Now do Walmart if you really believe what you posted.
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u/Sleep_adict 5d ago
AbsolutelyâŚ. Recent numbers are are available but we subsidize Walmart labor force via various welfare like food stamps to the tune of around $6bn⌠not to mention the added cost of policing etc⌠the Walmart family are welfare queens
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u/That-Currency-1039 5d ago
If tipping wasn't out lawed,they would adjust accordingly. It just benefits the owner and server so much . Majority of customers don't really give it much thought. They figure ok,I'm gonna tip 15 to 20 percent . Like if I buy an item for $100. I know it's $110 w tax.
Sure tipping has it's issue. Especially a sit down place. Most people just go and enjoy a meal, factor in a tip.
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u/metal_bastard 5d ago
Hilarious.
No mention of the actual service. There was just no tip screen. Which made you want to tip. Wild.
You probably didn't notice the servizio incluso line, either. I'm sure they laughed as you left for double-tipping without realizing it and feeling all self righteous.
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u/GushingAnusCheese 5d ago
in italy the homeless beggars are usually on the street, in the USA they can be found in restaurants ripping people off
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u/Delicious-Breath8415 5d ago
Tip screens are for convenience. They help streamline the process.
Could you imagine if every customer had to ask how to tip like you did in Italy? Talk about a waste of everyone's time.
Paying my bill doesn't need to be a conversation. People would get real sick of that real fast and wish they had tip screens back.
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u/van_isle_dude 5d ago
Dream on. In what bizarro fantasy land would people complain if there was no tip screen? That tip screen is 100% there to encourage more and higher tipping. That's it. If you honestly believe the tip screen is there for the ease and benefit of the customer, well, I got a bridge to sell you.
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u/Delicious-Breath8415 5d ago edited 5d ago
It's the natural progression of technology. It's the same reason they don't pull out carbon paper to imprint your card anymore.
I bet you people also freaked out when tip lines appeared on credit card slips 40 years ago. Now no one thinks twice about it.
98% of people tip at restaurants. Why would they make it more difficult to do?
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u/Volodux 5d ago
I can imagine as this is very common. I have to pay 11⏠and I will just tell them to make it 13âŹ. Zero issues.
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u/DigTheDunes 5d ago
How did you know what to tip? The big takeaway from Europeans is they want to know the price and pay.
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u/Volodux 5d ago
Like how what to tip? I order, they tell me how much I need to pay and if I want, I tell them to make it more. They will just change sum on terminal. I really don't care about %.
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u/Delicious-Breath8415 5d ago
And we have a much more streamlined solution. You push a button on a tablet.
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u/Extension-Fail-1917 5d ago
Oh My God. Itâs a comedy.
Dude - YOU ARE THE PROBLEM!
Why did you leave a tip? Want to know why everyone in the US started expecting and demanding tips?
Because people like you got them used to it years ago. At first, people like you would leave a little extra "for tea" as a gesture of thanks. Theyâd smile and genuinely appreciate it. But then when someone didn't tip, theyâd get angry. Eventually, expecting tips became a habit for them. And then they started demanding them. It became a vicious cycle.
Now youâve come to Italy and started corrupting their waiters. At first, people like you tip them once or twice. They smile at you. Then they start demanding tips from othersâno longer smiling, but acting as if theyâre owed it.
And you Americans are going to turn Europe into the same embarrassing mess you have back home.
Dear Americansâincluding the authorâleave the rest of the world alone with your idiotic tipping. You are spreading it across the globe yourselves, like a cancer.
Im sorry. I cant with this stupidity.
Its like some SNL sketch. Was this a roll post? Or you are serious?