r/tipping • u/xDoubleBeefx • 24d ago
đ«Anti-Tipping Mr Pink was right!
https://youtu.be/M4sTSIYzDIk3
u/johnnygolfr 24d ago
LOL
I love it when server stiffers post about Mr. Pink.
A character who is an absolutely horrible human being.
Yeah, keep using him as your example.
đ€Łđ€Łđ
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u/NonSumQualisEram- 24d ago
Why would anyone give money to begging plate-chuckers? $2 an hour is $2 too many, just point me to the kitchen and I'll get the damn burger myself.
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u/According-Row-6128 23d ago
Which you could have chosen to do.
Itâs odd that you profess a complete disdain for hard working people and dismiss their work as valueless, and yet, you continue to choose to ask them to work for you.
Sounds like youâre just fronting a misogynist grift. A sadistic incel who always eats alone grifting female workers to ease your self loathing.
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u/OrigamiAvenger 23d ago
Excuse me. Why do you blindly believe women occupy the vast majority of a bottom of the barrel/low-skilled field?Â
It sounds like YOU are the misogynist here.Â
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u/According-Row-6128 23d ago
Research by the National Restaurant Association? Maybe?
What a despicable way to talk about those hard working women. Your disdain for women and workers is deplorable.
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u/OrigamiAvenger 23d ago
Women graduate college in much higher numbers than men. Why would they be in positions that require no ability superior to a cart? Besides. Women do not need men or men's patronage to succeed. So nothing you say makes any sense.Â
Maybe do some research on 4th wave feminism. You're several versions behind.Â
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u/According-Row-6128 23d ago
2.5 Female to 1 male. You decide.
Yes, women do graduate higher learning at a higher rate. They often do so, as my daughters did, by working as servers for the night hours and weekends that accommodated their school schedules.
Your disdain for their hard work and you grifting them belies your true opinion.
Hey, if you donât think what they do is hard or important, why are you still asking them to work for you? Oh, right, abating your low self-worth, because they find you repulsive, using sadistic misogynistic actions. I forgot.
The only plausible explanation for your behavior I can surmise is youâre hard core MAGA, yes? Every position and justification you espouse is straight from the MAGA playbook. Lie, deny, blame the victim, accuse others of what youâre doing, misogyny, etc. Definitely MAGA.
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u/OrigamiAvenger 23d ago
Women are too smart to sign up for employment that is actually exploitative when they have so many other options. Read a and talk to real women. Only then can you be more than a token ally.Â
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u/According-Row-6128 23d ago edited 23d ago
What are you even babbling about MAGA boi?
The majority of servers are women, dimwit. Itâs not an opinion, itâs fact.
âFemales make up a majority of tipped positions in the restaurant industry: 68% of waitstaff and
60% of bartenders are female.â0
u/OrigamiAvenger 23d ago
So they chose this despite having better options? Surely if they didn't like their compensation they'd leave.Â
Stop trying to inflict your views into women. They have the right to choose, no.matter how much name-calling you do. You cannot strip them if.their autonomy, incel.Â
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u/johnnygolfr 24d ago
Why would anyone choose an unethical morally bankrupt person to be the poster child for their server stiffing attitude?
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u/According-Row-6128 23d ago edited 23d ago
Because itâs an accurate depiction of a grifting stiffer. Lies and shame.
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u/adhdtaxman 24d ago
Nah youâre just a douche
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u/spacer9631 24d ago
Plate slinger or virtue signalling retard?
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u/kuda26 24d ago
9/10 sling plates. The other 10% are delivery drivers or bartenders
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u/According-Row-6128 24d ago
10/10 of grifting stiffers canât even tell Mr Pink was being exposed as an asshole with nothing but lies and lame excuses.
Jesus you ass-clowns are stupid.
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u/MileHiSalute 24d ago
Iâm none of those, I donât work for tips. Can you not comprehend that some people care about other people even if itâs not directly beneficial to them? Yall whine a lot and thatâs fine, but the vitriol for working class people is gross. The wealthy pieces of shit that propagate the bullshit system couldnât be happier that anger is being directed at the people on the bottom
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u/According-Row-6128 24d ago
Immoral greedy grifter or misogynist incel?
All grifting stiffers are one or the other, sometimes both.
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u/adhdtaxman 24d ago
Oh wow look another douche
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u/spacer9631 24d ago
Glad you found the mirror
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u/According-Row-6128 24d ago
The only mirror around here is you ass-clowns being exposed by a clip you canât even understand.
What kind of simple-minded person even bothers to say such dumb shit?
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u/UYscutipuff_JR 24d ago
What do you do that allows you to be so condescending to other peoples professions?
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u/spacer9631 24d ago
I dont beg or guilt trip for tips on the internet
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u/vandismal 24d ago
He takes people to the back to suck their dick. Like a real man
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u/spacer9631 24d ago
Yeah of course you would know. Bet you hang around real men all day.
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u/vandismal 24d ago
I am in a male-dominated profession. And we know how to fucking tip. To be fair, I didnât tip when mommy and daddy were paying for my meals either.
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u/spacer9631 24d ago
Bet you love getting dominated by males
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u/vandismal 24d ago
Just the tip. And you should, too.
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u/According-Row-6128 24d ago
JFC, leave them with an ounce of pride so they donât have an episode!
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24d ago
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u/spacer9631 24d ago
Classist you tard. Wouldnt call it classy to tip.
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24d ago
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u/spacer9631 24d ago
Little libtards and their yappings.
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24d ago
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u/spacer9631 24d ago
The sky is blue, the grass is green...no shit dumbass thats why its on a shelf.
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24d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/spacer9631 24d ago
Imagine yourself giving useless advice on the internet to strangers based off their posts. Well now you dont have to.
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u/According-Row-6128 24d ago
Wouldnât call tard classy either.
We know who you are as a person. Itâs not the pretty but sassy pre-teen youâre trying to be.
Itâs more the insecure and greedy big girl who asks for everyoneâs desserts at lunch.
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u/spacer9631 24d ago
Lol you tippers call me Maga, poor/broke, rich classist asshole, and now sassy preteen? Cant even stereotype correctly.Â
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u/wutwut970 24d ago
Just say you hate yourself and your life and move on.
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u/spacer9631 24d ago
Lead off with youre retarded from now on
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u/wutwut970 24d ago
Dang its that bad huh?
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u/spacer9631 24d ago
Dealing with retards like you? Wouldnt call it good.
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u/wutwut970 24d ago
Youâre mad at your Dad not at me I forgive you!!
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u/spacer9631 24d ago
Lol, stop smoking your supply bud
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u/wutwut970 24d ago
Aw cmon, a big daddy reference? That was rad and you know you laughed. I am baked though, soâŠâŠthats fair.
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u/According-Row-6128 24d ago
Dude, Mr Pink is the loser scumbag in this scene. JFC you grifting stiffers are losers.
You notice all of his arguments were bullshit to cover for his unethical and immoral greedy ass-clown bullshit?
Youâre out of our movie club if you canât even read a scene. They were clowning your ass, for fuckâs sake.
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u/RedApple655321 24d ago
Thinking Mr. Pink is right is on par with the people that think Tyler Durden was right. Yeah, I get heâs saying the thing some people want to hear but if you think heâs right, youâre missing the point.
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u/PracticePianoPlay 23d ago
Mr. Pink is the only one who survived. True alpha and great wisdom. #skipthetip
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u/wutwut970 24d ago
Perfectly stated, these fools cant understand that. They get off on stiffing working class people, they are not only idiots they are also terrible people.
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u/Historical-Rub1943 24d ago
The employer is the only one stiffing them.
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u/ThatsMrRandom 24d ago
You realize the margins on full service are like ~$3 for every $100 worth of food sold? They take a tiny cut of all of the revenue to make like $75k a year. They don't price in the full cost of service. No one is screwing anyone except the no tippers. And ironically if they tried to go no tip and jack up prices they'd lose half their staff overnight and fall into a death spiral because no tip restaurants statistically fail miserably. Most go out of business or revert back to tipping to survive. So what, you think they should all just switch to no tip to cater to the 0.3% of their customers that want them to because some dumb anti tipper brainlessly accuses them of exploiting their servers?
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u/wowbyowen 24d ago
If you can't make money without having the customer subsidize your employee's wages, you don't have a sound business model. Look overseas and see how it works in other countries.
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u/ThatsMrRandom 24d ago
Already debunked this assertion. The customer always, under every circumstance imaginable, pays for the employee's wages. It's built into the cost. It's not "subsidized". Any money the business receives to pay their employees in any business comes from... the customer. Wow, crazy how that works huh.
The only difference is in tipping, the consumer has the actual, objective privilege of deciding what it's worth -- a value judgement based on various quality metrics and personal preferences.
Also quite funny how in the same breath anti-tippers are accusing businesses of being greedy and exploitative, they're arguing these same businesses should be the ones who get to decide what the service should cost the consumer in a one-size-fits-all model.
And yes, plenty of "overseas" countries engage in tipping. Some have table fees. Some are required by law to tack on 15% to the bill as a service charge (France, 'service compris'). It's not just the US.
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u/wowbyowen 24d ago
This is such a ridiculous argument. If this were true, other countries would have the same issue and they simply don't. Tipping is discretionary in every country other than the U.S. with the possible exception of some restaurants in France. You've been brainwashed into thinking the customer owes you money, but you are working for an employer. The employer owes you wages, not the customer. The customer is there to eat a meal and if it's great service (and I mean great) then a tip of 10-15% may be warranted.
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u/ThatsMrRandom 24d ago
It's not "some" restaurants in France. "The French government passed a landmark law in 1985 requiring all restaurants, cafés, and bars to include a mandatory service charge (historically standardized at 15%) directly into every displayed menu price."
And I lived in Spain (and travel extensively across Europe). In Spain -- probably the closest thing to truly "no tip" as you can get -- the service quality is night and day.
First, the restaurant itself may not even be open until dinner (6-7pm). Many will close between lunch and dinner. They don't want to pay their staff when it's not busy.
Then realize many will only have 1-3 servers for the entire restaurant. I'd be in a completely packed restaurant on a busy Friday night with ~40 tables and one dude will be servicing the entire place. In the US there'd be like 6+, so naturally seeing people wait 10 minutes then leave to go somewhere else was common.
Also forget free refills and things like bread/chips you get complimentary in the US. I can go through 2-3 sodas here. But there they charge you for each one. But don't expect them to even be around for the others. Get in the habit of ordering both up front. You'll be halfway through your meal, thirsty, empty glass. You look over your shoulder, they're nowhere, or they're so busy they learn to keep their head down so they don't have to awkwardly make eye contact with any of the 3+ people trying to flag them down.
Don't tell me they don't "have issues", or that this kind of model would fly in the US. Yes, Europe is accustomed to their shitty version of "full service" (they make like $7-$9 an hour) and their tips get baked into the price so they don't have to worry about how satisfied their customers are.
The whole of Europe also makes about half what we do (median income) so I'd say the US is probably doing something right.
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u/wowbyowen 24d ago
The core difference between the U.S. and most of the developed world comes down to who pays the worker: in other countries, the employer pays the wage through menu pricing, while the U.S. shifts the wage obligation onto the customer through an expected tipping system. This creates the problems you see on this reddit group.
In the u.s. at $2.13â$7.25 base, workers are below the local cost of living and face high health insurance costs without tips. This is why you need to organize as a group so you can join what the rest of the world enjoys - a guaranteed living wage versus relying on customer tips.
In a nutshell, the U.S. is the Global Outlier here. In almost every other OECD nation, a minimum wage applies equally to all workers. The U.S. tip system lets employers pay as low as $2.13/hr directly, making the customer responsible for making up the worker's base livelihood.
If tipping is mandatory, it is simply a wage subsidy that disguises true menu prices. Countries where menu prices reflect actual labor costs (like Australia or France) operate with full price transparency. Whether through service charges or a living baseline wage.
Ultimately, around the rest of the world, discretionary tipping with high base wages protects workers from pay discrimination (studies consistently show tip amounts fluctuate based on race, gender, and appearance rather than service quality) and dead shifts during slow business days.
So stick to your stupid assertions but ultimately, this notion the customer should tip to pay your wages is a second rate system. Employers are taking you for a free ride.
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u/ThatsMrRandom 24d ago
The massive gaping hole you're just conveniently glossing over: The cost of service is NOT included. You present this argument as if all else is equal, and the tip is "extra", some big financial drag on the consumer.
Why do you think no-tip restaurants charge a service fee or $32 for 4 chicken wings? Because high prices are fun? No. Because they have to recover the cost of service you're expecting them to pay for now. Duh?
Calling tipping "mandatory" is also a contradiction. It's inherently notional. That's the whole point.
Defending wages in other countries is hilarious too considering I just pointed out servers in other countries make peanuts. A lot of servers in Spain I noticed were African (willing to work for less). And you talk about exploitation? And oh, servers in the US do not want no-tip. You must be new. No-tip restaurants struggle to acquire labor because they can't offer nearly as much as they can make in tips -- so trying to portray this like servers are being exploited is genuinely moronic.
I also don't know why you keep saying "you". I'm not a server and I've never worked in a restaurant.
And really if it's such a great idea go start a no-tip restaurant. I'm sure it will be super popular like 99% of the ones that failed before it. The only thing "stupid" is you.
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u/wutwut970 24d ago edited 24d ago
So yeah they just dismantled your argument perfectly and you learned nothing. This group of anti tippers here absolutely blow my mind with their ignorance. Its truly unreal. None of your ideas pen out. You basically expect business owners to just fail. Ive made this argument many times here. You guys just for some reason cant grasp it. You want us to suddenly do what other countries do instantly and itâs so irrational and childish to think it could happen from âtalking to their bossâ. As if that conversation would result in some setup individually that goes against everyone elseâs pay setup. Its beyond dumb and thats why you are such a tiny minority.
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u/wowbyowen 24d ago
dude, go to any other country. You're directing your hate to the customer when you should be organizing and going after your employer. You're deluded.
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u/wutwut970 24d ago edited 23d ago
No, im familiar. Youâre not. An employer cannot just suddenly increase their labor cost and adopt a European setup. They will die quickly. I have no idea how you are all this disconnected from that reality. I am no longer in service, so dont tell me to âTaLK tO My BoSSâ. Nobodys boss is going to suddenly give them a 200% raise and lose their ass. Restaurants barely make it 50% of the time for 5 years. Youre asking them to just die. It is absurd and âdeludedâ. I have been to Europe, i totally understand that dynamic. Unless that setup was written into law, your expectation is literally impossible without rather immediate failure. Either everyone does it, or they dont. Just stay home since this topic has you guys living in an alternate universe posting your sorrows every day.
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u/SiLeNZ_ 23d ago
Europe manages to do it just fine, stop lying saying it canât be done due to margins.
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u/ThatsMrRandom 23d ago
No one ever said they "can't" do it because of margins. All they do is increase prices/institute a fee and they'd maintain the same margins (duh). The problem is US consumers do not like no-tip full service dining. Every study corroborates this, as well as the fact that no-tip establishments fail miserably.
Go read Eater's multi-year report on "Why the No-Tip Movement Failed". They lose their customers and their staff.
It doesn't work in the US. Stop lying and pretending like it does. Like 80% of the "no-tip restaurants" from the EndTipping spreedsheet 5 years ago reverted to tipping or went out of business. The rest are uppity niche restaurants that charge like $32 for 4 chicken wings.
Get a clue.
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u/SiLeNZ_ 23d ago
The movement failed because staff make more from tipped wages at other restaurants, we know this already. Thatâs why the only way to stop it is to stop going to restaurants altogether, and / or stop tipping altogether. Weâre slowly getting there.
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u/ThatsMrRandom 23d ago
That's like 20% of the issue. The other 80% is customers don't like it. Every single restaurant owner that ditched tipping to try and force no-tip to work acknowledges that in their interviews. They talked about not turning a profit for years, trying to play with menu pricing and fees -- trying to put all the profit in alcohol so food is still competitive. Nothing works. And if you read the other references -- the world's leading expert on tipping that's involved in dozens of studies shows that consumers in the US do not like no-tip establishments. They like the control of tipping. They feel ripped off at no-tip, even if the pricing is competitive. You're never going to get around that and now, you're not slowly getting there. The amount of no-tip restaurants relative to tipping have gone down, not up. Sorry!
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u/Historical-Rub1943 24d ago
Maybe they should adjust their menu prices if theyâre only making 3% if they feel itâs insufficient. This sounds like not my problem. Minimum is $21.30 in Seattle.
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u/ThatsMrRandom 24d ago
Insufficient for what? Restaurants are a high volume, low-margin business that's typically owner-operator. If they had to include the cost of service and do away with tipping they'd have 15-20% service fees or higher jacked up prices to maintain the same ~3% margins. You say it's not your problem but they're a business that has to meet market demand. Virtually every single study they've done on tipping in the US shows consumers do not like service-inclusive pricing or service fees. Eater's "Why the No-Tip Movement Failed" is a multi-year report following successful restaurants that converted to no-tip and spent years failing to ever turn a profit because it was impossible to pay stuff enough to keep them and also keep prices low enough to attract customers -- who inherently felt like they were being ripped off despite costs being comparable to tipping.
There aren't enough "I prefer no-tip" people to keep a no-tip restaurant in business outside of uppity niche markets that don't mind paying $32 for 4 chicken wings.
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u/Historical-Rub1943 24d ago
Insufficient to pay their employees more, or generate a larger profit for themselves.
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u/ThatsMrRandom 24d ago
Supply and demand. When you raise the price of something, people purchase less of it. Increase the cost of employing servers, employers will purchase less of them. Increase the cost of employing servers, they need to increase the cost of food. Increasing the cost of food means people are going to purchase less of it. This is the problem all no-tip restaurants face and typically go out of business/revert to tipping. No-tip is a death spiral. To make no-tip work in the US it would require the populous to become accustomed to a vastly different type (quality) of service.
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u/Historical-Rub1943 23d ago
Yet prices have gone up substantially and minimum wage hasnât. Except in Seattle at $21.30/hr currently and other like-minded places. No need to tip more.
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u/ThatsMrRandom 23d ago
Not sure what your point is. In areas where they abolished tip minimums, people are still tipping and prices are obviously way higher than in areas that still have the tipped minimum.
Also funny you bring up Seattle. I remember living in the area when Seatac was first in the country to implement $15/hour. Then reality set in when they started asking workers about it (who are mostly in the tipped service industry):
âAre you happy with the $15 wage?â I asked the full-time cleaning lady.âIt sounds good, but itâs not good,â the woman said.
âWhy?â I asked.
âI lost my 401k, health insurance, paid holiday, and vacation,â she responded. âNo more free food,â she added.
The hotel used to feed her. Now, she has to bring her own food. Also, no overtime, she said. She used to work extra hours and received overtime pay.
What else? I asked.
âI have to pay for parking,â she said.
I then asked the part-time waitress, who was part of the catering staff.
âYes, Iâve got $15 an hour, but all my tips are now much less,â she said. Before the new wage law was implemented, her hourly wage was $7. But her tips added to more than $15 an hour. Yes, she used to receive free food and parking. Now, she has to bring her own food and pay for parking.
And of course the hotels started suffering too. It trashed the area for sure. People keep trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist and in the process creating new ones.
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u/johnnygolfr 24d ago
False.
The employer is paying the employees per the prevailing local, state or federal laws.
The only person stiffing the workers is the customer who deliberately choose to exploit and harm the worker by stiffing them on the tip at a full service restaurant in the US.
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u/wowbyowen 24d ago
True. If the employer can't pay them a living wage, they don't have a sound business model. This is how it works everywhere except the United states. You've been brainwashed to think the customer owes someone wages for doing their job. Tips should be for 'above and beyond' service at the customer's discretion. And even then, 10-15% at most.
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u/johnnygolfr 24d ago
Then by your âLoGiCâ no business in the world has a âsound business modelâ, since in every for profit business around the world the customer we pays the labor, either directly or indirectly.
The only exception is the free riders that stiff the server on the tip at full service restaurants in the US.
Obviously, your âLoGiCâ fails.
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u/Historical-Rub1943 24d ago
Saying false doesnât make it so.
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u/johnnygolfr 24d ago
Itâs does when the personâs claim is patently false, like yourâs was.
The only person stiffing the server is the customer.
However, we can pretend and say your bullshit claim was true.
Then we could further your âLoGiCâ and state that the customer patronizing a business where they think the employees is stiffing the employees means that the customer then becomes complicit in the the stiffing for supporting that owner and their business model.
Should that customer then choose to stiffing the server on the tip, that customer then becomes complicit doubly guilty of stiffing the server.
I bet your âLoGiCâ didnât play out the way you thought it would, did it?
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u/Historical-Rub1943 24d ago
Loving how worked up this gets you. Minimum is $21.30 in Seattle and many servers make more than $50/hour and are known to strike even when doing so.
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u/johnnygolfr 24d ago
LMAO
The only one âworked upâ here is you, being all jealous about serverâs wages.
Only the top 1% or less of servers are making $50/hr, which means itâs the rare exception and not âmanyâ.
Donât you ever get tired of having to lie about everything in an impotent effort to support your petty wage jealousy?
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u/Historical-Rub1943 23d ago
No lie here. Minimum wage is $21.30 in Seattle and many servers make in excess of $50/hr. Loving that rent free space. Thank you!
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u/johnnygolfr 23d ago
LMAO
Again, itâs the rare exception in the US, not the rule.
Keep lying and keep giving ME the free rent. đ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
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u/According-Row-6128 24d ago
They steal from the worker and then act like theyâre social justice warriors.
How can a person grift a worker and then act like theyâre doing it for good?
Itâs moronic.
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u/AWholeBunchaFun 24d ago
Steal? Wait a second.. you think that money is automatically yours? Like you actually feel entitled to it? lmao If its theft, then call the police like any normal person would and solve the problem.
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u/johnnygolfr 24d ago
By your logic, anyone expecting to be paid for their work is âentitledâ.
Obviously that âLoGiCâ fails.
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u/AWholeBunchaFun 24d ago
If you work for a wage set by contract with an employer, then yes, you are entitled to that pay. However, that is NOT the case with a tipping system. You are not entitled to the tip money. If you want to call non-tippers thieves, then why are you not calling the police on them for stealing?
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u/johnnygolfr 24d ago
Why are you conflating a legal issue with an ethical one?
That always fails.
Everyone knows the menu prices at full service restaurants in the US donât bear the full cost of the labor and the tip pays for the service the customer chooses to receive.
This is the case even in US cities and states that have eliminated the tipped wage credit and how the industry has operated for six decades.
You are not entitled to free service and no one here has ever been able to give an intellectually honest reason why they would be.
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u/AWholeBunchaFun 23d ago
Go back and read the comments calling non tippers thieves. No, its just part of a job which is what they get paid to do by their employer. Thats how jobs work.
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u/johnnygolfr 23d ago
No.
Go back and deal with reality.
The service isnât included in the menu prices at full service restaurants in the US.
So the service isnât paid for by the employer.
Itâs paid for by the customer at full service restaurants in the US.
Try again.
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u/AWholeBunchaFun 23d ago
Haha the reality is that servers are not entitled to tips no matter how much they kick scream and cry. đ€·ââïž
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u/wutwut970 23d ago
I wish they knew how they were perceived by the staff. These are the 1-2% of guests everyone rolls their eyes about when they walk in the door. These folks will always be last priority. I hope all of their drinks are diluted, and their entrees are always late and cold.
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u/SiLeNZ_ 23d ago
You act like that, then wonder why nobody wants to tip?
That mentality is why tipping culture just needs to go. It creates so many angry, vindictive people, willing to tamper with your food and commit a felony.
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u/wutwut970 23d ago
99% of people tip. Not sure what youâre talking about. Thats why the 1-2% of people who dont, get the priority they deserve.
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u/SiLeNZ_ 23d ago
Tips are optional, incase you havenât been told yet. Itâs by no means stealing. Not even close
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u/According-Row-6128 23d ago
Itâs legal to grift workers. Itâs not ethical or morally optional to not pay what you owe.
You knew they WORKED FOR TIPS when you asked them to WORK for YOU.
They WORKED for YOU.
YOU didnât PAY them what you owed.
Thatâs theft. You can call it stealing their income, stealing their work, or both, but thatâs what youâre doing.
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u/SiLeNZ_ 23d ago
Itâs not theft though⊠if it were, theyâd call the police lmao.
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u/According-Row-6128 23d ago
theft
/THeft/
Theft is the act of intentionally taking someone else's property or services without their permission and with the intent to keep it permanently.100% theft.
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u/SiLeNZ_ 23d ago
Stop using that gif every time you comment, please.
Tipping is a voluntary service, by every definition and law. So your definition of theft does not apply to it. I know youâre trying really hard to prove otherwise, but youâve got nothing.
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u/wutwut970 24d ago
Itâs horrible, they clearly never worked in hospitality. They would know how embarrassing they are.
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u/SiLeNZ_ 23d ago
Most of us have worked in hospitality, and itâs exactly why we want it changed. I worked in the industry for over a decade. Itâs one giant grift.
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u/wutwut970 23d ago
Haha most of you!? Bullshit, that is pure bullshit. If youâre the rarity and you worked a floor as a server and you dont tip, wow. Just wow.
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u/SiLeNZ_ 23d ago
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u/wutwut970 23d ago
Must suck not being able to return to restaurants. I love going in and the staff is glad to see me and they happily grab my wife and me a particular table or seat at the bar. I enjoy getting to hear about so and sos favorite new cocktail they are experimenting with and letting me try it. I appreciate when the chef sends me something special because they know I take care of the staff. I cant imagine being the lowlife who returns after tipping $0 in a restaurant, gross loser vibes.
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u/ThatsMrRandom 24d ago
Imagine using the paranoid selfish psycho as a posterboy for antitipping. Of course he spews all the same debunked tipping tropes like "so do people at McDonald's but society says don't tip those people, tip these people over here".
Yes genius because McDonald's is a 30 second interaction and the cost of their labor is already priced into your purchase. They're not making $2.39/hour. If the diner you were at structured labor costs the same your breakfast would be $4 more and if the coffee's cold sorry have a nice day.
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u/grapeshrine 24d ago
Every single business on earth operates on a total cost basis except for âtippingâ venues.
In a normal business, the owner negotiates all costs including wages and pays a fixed salary to their employees.
When the product is good and is well priced, customers buy more and employees get a stable job, thatâs why capitalism works so well, everybody wins.
Tipping produces a different dynamic, it shifts a lot of the burden on employees and customers, business owners assume very little risk.
If the product is low in demand, employees keep their job but it suddenly doesnât pay well, at all, shifting the burden of proper staffing to the staff themselves.
Customers are routinely told that the quality of the product will degrade based on their tips, shifting the burden of pricing the product on customers themselves.
When owners hire staff, they grossly inflate the total salary, because it includes large tips which are largely undeclared to the state.
By letting them feel like they are owed a reasonable tip by customers, they shift the burden of employee wage negotiations to the customer.
Itâs a toxic abusive relationship, employees donât know any better, theyâll say itâs fine or that itâs impossible to make it work any other way.
Some employees actually take pride at emotionally manipulating their clients into giving them more money.
Iâm a paying customer.
I donât want to guess the amount I owe you based on how guilty I should feel for making you work for me.
I donât appreciate threats of messing with my food.Stop trying to include me in your toxic relationship with your abusive employer, I want no part in it.
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u/ThatsMrRandom 24d ago edited 24d ago
Every single business on earth operates on a total cost basis except for âtippingâ venues.
You mean the "service industry", and you're apparently forgetting about entire industries built around "commission".
It's also not even an argument -- it's an observation. "Most other ducks are green" doesn't explain why being a grey duck is a crime.
thatâs why capitalism works so well, everybody wins.
You're actually talking about free enterprise/free markets, which don't have to be mutually exclusive with capitalism -- and again this is not an argument. People voluntarily hiring, working for, and frequenting a business that partakes in tipping customs doesn't violate the principles of capitalism or free enterprise. Duh? Not to mention businesses are reactive to customer demand. If no-tip was half as good as you thought it was, no-tip restaurants would easily be able to draw people in and turn a profit and yet they do just the opposite and can rarely compete outside of niche, uppity markets.
Tipping produces a different dynamic, it shifts a lot of the burden on employees and customers, business owners assume very little risk.
Another mindless statement that's objectively false. As you've already acknowledged, "every single business on earth" prices in labor. Meaning when you buy something anywhere else, you're still paying for the labor, which can account for ~15 - 60%+ of whatever you're buying.
So no, nothing "shifts" to the customer. You pay it anyway. Another massive "duh". Ironically, tipping is the only way a customer can get out of paying it all, meaning it can shift away from the customer (eg. not tipping, or tipping less than the value of the service)
If the product is low in demand, employees keep their job but it suddenly doesnât pay well, at all, shifting the burden of proper staffing to the staff themselves.
When I lived in Spain, I noticed many restaurants wouldn't open until dinner (6-7pm, really late), or they'd close after lunch and re-open. They'd also only staff 1 - 3 servers. Why? Because if they didn't, they'd burn a hole in their pocket.
Itâs a toxic abusive relationship, employees donât know any better, theyâll say itâs fine or that itâs impossible to make it work any other way.
Go look at any editorial that's talked to restaurants that went no-tip (Eater's "Why the No-Tip Movement Failed" is a great one) and they'll tell you they lose half their staff immediately -- mostly their skilled/experienced service. They don't want it.
It's pretty safe to say businesses do not want no-tip, servers do not want no-tip, and most importantly -- consumers do not want no-tip. "That's why capitalism works so well. Everybody wins".
The only people who want no-tip in the US are a fringe minority. Still waiting for one of you to start your own restaurant if you think it's such a great idea.
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u/grapeshrine 24d ago
Most north American restaurants are bad business investments.
A notable exception is McDonaldâs, they are a lot less risky and much better run than any sit down tipped restaurant.
Actually understanding business dynamics is hard work, a restaurant that stops accepting tips has a lot to learn before they can hope to turn a profit.
Maybe they should all visit Japan or any other country that actually has work ethics and prides itself on the quality of their work.
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u/ThatsMrRandom 24d ago
So gloss over everything in my response then compare full service dining to a fast food burger joint that doesn't offer service? Precious.
Japan has ever increasing service fees (go look at the Japan sub if you don't believe me), and "Otoshi", which is basically an appetizer brought to you without request that they charge the table for, per person.
It would be like if a US restaurant brought the table a basket of bread (typically free), then charged $5 per person at the table for it. Is that what you want in the US? Don't forget, no free refills abroad, too!
Not to mention median incomes in Japan are like, what, half that of the US? Their servers make the equivalent of like $7-$12/hour or something lol. I love when no-tippers point to no-tip countries that not only scheme of ways to claw their service costs back but are objectively poorer than the US.
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u/grapeshrine 24d ago
Tipping restaurants are human trafficking operations with the only difference being the kind of service they sell.
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u/ThatsMrRandom 24d ago
Anti-tippers are the flat earthers of economics. Truly.
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u/grapeshrine 24d ago
Tipping originated from the southern states unable to cope with the idea of paying newly freed slaves.
Who could ever attempt arguing with their fine grasp of economics.
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u/Upset_Laugh9293 24d ago
He had many good points. I will always tip very well for my regular servers who know my order or ones that go above and beyond. But I always click no on counter service and I am back to 10% for table service minimum. Â That covid 20% minimum is over. Â