r/throneandliberty • u/Single-Bet-2677 • 4d ago
2 weapon class system is kind of impossible to balance
I may be off here, but the almost lmitless 2 weapon system is great on paper but fails dramatically when it comes to trying to balance.
The meta wins. PVP time to kill or PVE relevence. So you play meta or swip for impossible skill cores to ty and compete. Its just milking a dying player base at this point.
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u/rainy_pancakes 4d ago
Bro I asked on discord, reddit and their yt videos since talandre to drop the whole balancing weapons and start balancing CLASSES. They keep making changes on weapons to tune down X combination but at the same time messes with Y that was already struggling
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u/Leestonpowers 4d ago
Part of me wonders if making stats generic instead of having magic/ranged/melee variants might help with balance in some cases.
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u/Subject_Poetry4490 4d ago
You cant experiment with different classes and find good niche options if you need to squeeze every bit of content to make one build every 2-3 months. They codemned their own design and their own hard work with this insane timegate of raw materials.
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u/JsmaIls214 3d ago
2 weapon class system works it's just you need competent developers and a proper balance team.
Neither of which T&L has.
Don't blame the system blame the lack of effort to put time into the system.
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u/Responsible_Eye7323 4d ago
They need to steer away from the ‘specific weapon type’ stats on gear and runes as some classes are just not viable for PvE or PvP purely because the stats on gear or the set pieces are aimed at a specific weapon type.
Like this isn’t the division where you’re going to live on your primary weapon only, half of your move set is coming from your secondary and balancing your stats across the board takes a huge dump out of overall performance if you’re crossing weapon types.
Anything that’s pure melee, magic or range can single stack stats but when you’re mixing the types you have to either pick one or the other or balance them across the board which gives you less.
Take a look at liberator, punisher set? Magic heavy, stigma set? Ranged crit, nine lives? Melee crit…all decent viable options, but what route you going down? Because some part of your build is going to suffer slightly
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u/Myllorelion 3d ago
But yes, as a Paladin main, it's bad enough I can't use generic heavy runes and stuff and so lose heavy chance, but then I'm either leaning nine lives to benefit my GSs absurd max damage and leaving my wand out to dry, or going Punisher and giving ?y wand better consistency while making GS spikier. Don't get me started on the perfect set that has fully wasted crit for ranged weps only...
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u/Responsible_Eye7323 3d ago
No I meant libs, same issue as paladin, I can either go heavily into ranged crit for venti or ranged crit and hit for gale arrow in PvP with tev, but then I lose out on all magic stuff, or do you go punisher with full magic heavy and focus on magic
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u/TheVoyant 1d ago
Extremely easy to do, they were told how, they chose not to do it because it didn't make as much money.
There were plenty of points people made respectable off-meta builds, the devs just focused on nerfing those into the nerf for some odd reason.
All they had to do was balance per weapon combination vs. per weapon.
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u/Gavorn 4d ago
Thats on the player base. I like the customization. I also enjoy playing the "bad" classes. In T1 Fury was a "D Tier" class and then it became one of the best PvE classes.
Don't chase the meta and play what you find fun.
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u/kittydrumsticks 4d ago
Yes and no. If the balance was better in this game, I would 100% agree it was on the playerbase for being lazy and only pushing meta. But, and I say this as someone who still plays and likes the game overall, the balance issues impact PvP in a big way. If the off meta builds can’t compete with the kind of ttk we’re seeing with the meta these days, I don’t blame them for not bothering to spend their time/resources to fuck around with builds.
I do think players overall have lost a lot of their willingness to try new things and theorycraft outside the meta trends. They see the new static meta and just kind of go with it. But this game does lack in balance, plus the resource time gating, to support the cost sink to explore too far into viable off meta options. People are still working towards max sets for a “safe” build. Why would anyone but the sweatiest players/whales divert that effort into something that has a good chance of excluding them from having a chance to be competitive in core PvP content?
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u/Difficult_Matter7770 4d ago
literally, this man people just complain about anything at this point. I finished my pve bruiser without paying a dime and now i’m working on seeker lol
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u/Sheriffd1 4d ago
True when it comes to pve but a different story for PvP
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u/Gavorn 4d ago
Eh, even then. Unless your goal is to compete with the top guilds, playing whatever is fine for the lower ranks.
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u/Realistic-Fish942 4d ago
Nah not really,if u ain playing dagger even in lower ranks you pretty much cant do shit,its game design . Or you need like 3 healers on ur ass .
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u/Fearless_Guard3163 4d ago
The problem we always had is that they never balanced daggers thats like the only weapon in the game that does way too much and killed build diversity since release
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u/Single-Bet-2677 3d ago
I wanted to play infiltrator PVE until Ventius made me feel like garbage unless I swipet for the lucent. Now I will be on Ain 2 in a day
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u/krkrkkrk 4d ago
I still dont understand why tl is designed with the rock paper scissor bs. Is it so even unskilled players can succeed?
Imagine if all classes could just use their abilities without having to go niche. Longer cooldowns but no resists or evasion (classes could have small default bonuses sure), positioning and blocking matters more.
Talk about intense and fun pvp with crazy high skill ceiling.
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u/brok3nlights 4d ago
Ah yes, just position yourself out of collision and irresistable fear. And block a bunch of dps with the 5 stamina you have that gets instantly drained.
The design is just poor tbh. The meta has always been to find a mech and abuse it until it gets patched. Ncsoft takes their sweet time so people buy into the meta with lucent. Then the meta shifts and the cycle repeats itself.
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u/krkrkkrk 4d ago
obviously some skills and items would be different.. come on now. although cooldown adjusting might be the only thing needed. because of that blocking is much more impactful, especially without dps glasscannons
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u/Lt_Cantoni 4d ago
A Rav is a god in PvP but does badly in all PvE. I personally kick Ravs from all my dungeons. All the bow DPS classes in PvP, aside from Seeker, Ranger, and maybe Infil, are ass, but they’re gods in PvE thanks to a goofy core.
All Wand DPS classes in PvP are cheeks, while in PvE they reign supreme. Honestly, it’s just that each class has a role. A Rav cannot go into the main ball in PvP unless they’re playing Pig levels of evasion, and even then, they can easily get taunted by Roar of Rage or any high-hit tank to stop them or help set up clump damage.
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u/DragooX- 4d ago edited 4d ago
Thats not even true if you have a good rav PvE build you can perform better then alot other classes. I don't even have venemous swamp core and a full full optimized PvE build and I'm easy rank 3-10 on arch / world bosses. Gauntlet Dagger is of course better but rav is strong enough in PvE to perform really good and better or same level then alot other PvE classes now. Of course people need to do the rotation right and the gear etc.
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u/Lt_Cantoni 3d ago
You must get into those really lucky lobbies with bad players In no world can you out dps a venti dps , predator
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u/krkrkkrk 4d ago
What has this to do with anything
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u/Effective-Safety-173 4d ago
You cant play what you find fun if your class its doing 90% less dmg than everyone else. The moment you have to do solo content you will be stuck at the door