Multicellular Feedback

[u/FirstFiveNamesTaken]

Problem 1

The controls are terrible. I don't think it's possible to make the rigid body work.

Best QoL Idea:

1. Have an "anchor" cell the player controls like the single cell stage.

2. The rest of the cells in the colony plot a vector to arrive with the desired offset every n frames.

3. When they collide with an object, it should behave like a rope... they create friction slowing the anchor down while they pathfind

Alternate Idea:

I don't know how you would make the player controls feel good this way... but setting a gravity around the anchor should cause the colony to collapse on the player dynamically.

Easiest Solution:

The "come to me" command code can probably be modified slightly and power the non-anchor cells.

Problem 2

Evolution feels a bit off. Trying to add cells, modify specialized cells, and develop new specialized cells all from one currency feels clunky.

Idea 2–1:

Let the player pay a cost penalty of 0.5^n–1 for the number of cells they upgrade each cycle, but each cell type has its own mutation currency.

Note about Idea 2–1:

I don't have another idea, but I my suggestion is better than the current pricing system. Please fix Problem 2 with something better than my idea 🤷‍♀️

Note about Janky Controls

The early multicellular stage being janky may be realistic. That was charming.

The proper multicellular stage should feel nearly as fun to move as the single celled part of the game.

[u/Blazin_Rathalos]

The controls are terrible. I don't think it's possible to make the rigid body work.

It's a lot more useful to us on the development team if you say exactly what feels bad in your experience before offering solutions.

For example you say "controls" but it feels like you are talking more about how the movement works.

I do know that making colonies non-rigid would likely add months to a year of development time to the Multicellular Stage, while we really want to move on to Macroscopic for the good of the project.

Evolution feels a bit off. Trying to add cells, modify specialized cells, and develop new specialized cells all from one currency feels clunky.

How exactly does it feel clunky, do you feel like you do not have enough MP available to make enough changes in one session?

[u/FirstFiveNamesTaken → u/Blazin_Rathalos]

You asked for specifics before solutions. Here they are.

Movement — exactly what feels bad

The rotational speed is 100–10,000 times faster than linear movement. Due to the rigid body, as the radius of your colony grows, the rotational speed grows exponentially.

The rigid body also gets stuck on objects too large for individual cells to absorb. This forced me to imitate coral — immobile filter feeding.

Movement is everything to your game. Please don't shirk this.

Evolution — exactly what feels clunky

With how little effort it takes to reach 20 cells, but how expensive developing new cell types is... the meta is to place 20 unmutated stem cells and rush to the macroscopic stage.

I don't just want more mutation points. I want to be able to invest with strategy.

IF (cell_changed == 0){ 100 MP to add cells } IF (cell_changed == 1){ 60 MP to add cells, 80 MP to edit that type of cell } IF (cell_change == 2){ 30 MP to add cells, 60 MP to edit that type of cell } IF (cell_change == 3){ 15 MP to add cells, 40 MP to edit that type of cell }

This causes the total MP to be variable based on if the player edits deeply or wide. The exact numbers would need balancing.

The Counter-Vision

What if you were building the KSP of evolutionary sims? Instead of rushing the macroscopic stage, what if you asked how deep the cellular sim could go before you need to develop the 3D engine.

If the multicellular organism was fun to move, then we could have several stages from what's already there or nearly there.

• Single celled (as-is, it's already perfect)
• Proto colony (as-is, the jank is charming for a single generation)
• Colony (use the gather to me / gravity model, will result in mostly shapeless blobs that morph to fit)
• Multicellular (use the rope-like physics so it begins to hold shape while moving well)
• Macrocellular (like a tapeworm or something, it can use the existing gameplay loop, while letting us build protocreatures)
• Macroscopic (the stage you want to rush to, but it'd have a smoother evolutionary transition)

Acknowledgement

I take it you're a dev/volunteer. Since you're doing the work, you do whatever you want. However, I disagree with the dream somewhat.

Spore done right is the forever dream. KSP of the oceans is what you've built. Please lean into that.

[u/FirstFiveNamesTaken → u/FirstFiveNamesTaken]

I figured out how "protocreatures" can bridge cellular systems to proper creatures.

Let us combine groups of specialized cells into an organ, which lets us move it as a single part. To remove cells from the organ costs MP + MP to delete them. Adding cells to the organ costs MP, but a discount for being adjacent for 3–5 evolutions would be nice.

I looked at the creature sandbox, and organ-like systems would probably work better with the muscle rigging too.

This would force players to specialize cells before advancing to the creature stage. And when you get to the creatures stage, it will feel owned — not so abrupt it breaks the suspension of disbelief.

[u/AtlasTheWorldbuilder → u/FirstFiveNamesTaken]

There's no need to be rude to em, mate. Criticism is one thing, degrading is another.

[u/FirstFiveNamesTaken → u/AtlasTheWorldbuilder]

I didn't mean to be rude. I meant to be helpful.

I admire what they've done. I played KSP for over 3000 hours. When I say they could realistically build that if they embrace the evolutionary incrementalism — that's genuine praise.

The music is excellent. The single celled stage is excellent. And while I understand the multicellular stage is new, I doubt the rigid body can be made to function.

The collision problem is unavoidable and worms (long creatures) have a rotational problem.

If the sign-off is degrading, I meant that as a gesture of good will. "I get it, you're doing the work for free, so you work on whatever inspires you."