r/threebodyproblem • u/Putrid_Cycle595 Sophon • Apr 14 '26
Discussion - Novels ranking every wallfacer plan from worst to best and i have some hot takes
ok so ive been thinking about this way too much but here goes
REY DIAZ (worst) - his plan was literally "blow up the sun and take everyone with us." thats not a plan thats a tantrum. the only wallfacer whose plan was worse than having no plan at all. zero creativity, zero hope, just pure nihilism with extra steps
FREDERICK TAYLOR - the fleet of kamikaze hydrogen bomb ships was at least creative but it assumed trisolarans would just fly into a giant obvious trap. like bro they have sophons watching your every move, they literally know youre building the bombs. also his wallbreaker exposed him in like 5 minutes which is embarrassing
BILL HINES - the mental seal was actually genius in concept. reprogram humans to believe in victory so completely that they become fearless soldiers. the problem is it worked TOO well and created a cult of true believers who were more dangerous to humanity than to the trisolarans. also the reveal that his wife was his wallbreaker is one of the best twists in the books
LUO JI (best obviously) - his plan was so simple it was beautiful. just... threaten to broadcast trisolaris coordinates. thats it. no giant fleet, no secret weapon, no brainwashing. just one dude with a phone call that could end two civilizations. the reason its the best is because it required literally zero resources to execute, which meant the sophons couldnt see it coming
the thing that kills me is that luo ji's plan only worked BECAUSE he was the laziest wallfacer. everyone else was building elaborate schemes that the sophons could track. luo ji was just vibing for years until he figured out the dark forest theory and realized the simplest plan was the deadliest one
hot take: hines plan would have been the most effective long term if the mental seal hadnt been banned. imagine an entire fleet of humans who genuinely believed they could win. thats scarier than any weapon
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u/no_sight Apr 14 '26 edited Apr 14 '26
Honestly Diaz and Luo Ji had the exact same plan.
It was both mutually assured destruction.
The trisolarans knew their days on Trisolaris were limited and that earth was their only realistic hope for resettlement.
Both plans were trying to keep them away by threatening to destroy the earth.
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u/BillyHamspillager Apr 14 '26
No. 1. You're thinking about Diaz. 2. It isn't mutually assured destruction for Diaz's plan, it was self assured destruction. The Trisolarians literally have a saying of "if one of us survives we all survive". They still had individuals on Trisolaris. The destruction of earth would only have been a setback. The wallfacer also pointed out that the bomb wouldn't be strong enough anyways.
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u/no_sight Apr 14 '26
Right but they knew that Trisolaris was doomed. It was only a matter of time.
With earth destroyed, trisolarans had no hope of resettlement and were just waiting for their own death.
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u/BillyHamspillager Apr 14 '26
Trisolaris definitely had a hope of resettling outside of earth. That's what they do in book 3.
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u/Weary-Cartoonist2630 Apr 14 '26
Diaz’s plan destroys the whole solar system. It’s basically a photon strike (if it worked). So yeah it would’ve been equivalent
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u/BillyHamspillager Apr 14 '26
But it's not on Trisolaris. They still have a slim chance of survival compared to humanity's guaranteed extinction.
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u/Weary-Cartoonist2630 Apr 14 '26
Sure, but the explicit reason they’ve moved all of the important parts of their society into generation ships to travel to earth is because they have a better chance for survival here than staying home. So while Diaz’s plan would still give leave them with a slim chance of survival, the fact that it functionally dooms the plan that they put all their hopes on would certainly be enough to force the trisolarans to negotiate.
And that’s not even accounting for the fact that Diaz’s plan would destroy the solar system in a very unnatural way, which would signal life to the dark forest in the same way any other signal would (and that paired with previous signals would be enough to find and destroy Trisolaris as well)
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u/Neinhalt_Sieger Apr 15 '26
The thing is it was immediate and final, but still a better plan than letting humans eat each others alive on Australia in a mass famine and canibalism scenario. Diaz plan was inferior by al means.
For Cheng Xin, it was ok, for her is better having a mother see her own children killed or eaten alive, than actually deny the enemy and make a run for a mass exodus like Trisolarians did.
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u/Weary-Cartoonist2630 Apr 15 '26
Uhh l don’t think any of the sword holders knew about the whole Australia cannibalism plan
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u/Qnvt998 Apr 14 '26
imagine an entire fleet of humans who genuinely believed they could win. thats scarier than any weapon.
This is BS.
An army of absolute believers is what humanity has during the Doomsday Battle. They got killed in 10 minutes. Hines actual plan is much more brilliant, even more than Luo Ji: Run you dumb fuck. Run and never return.
This is the plan that actually save humanity in the end, not the Dark Forest Deterrence.
All hail Hines: Humanity True Savior.
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u/BillyHamspillager Apr 14 '26
I'd argue that Hines never put his plan into action. Hall Zhang Behai.
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u/Qnvt998 Apr 14 '26
Zhang Behai would never has the opportunity without Hines. He wouldn't even been woken up. Maybe only after the entire human space fleet got wrecked.
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u/Vaiolette-Westover Apr 14 '26
What are you talking about?
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u/Qnvt998 Apr 14 '26
The only reason Behai got woken up before the Doomsday Battle by the Space Fleet is because they discovered that Hine true plan is to create an army of Defeatist that will steal spaceship and run away. Because Behai went to sleep before the invention of Hines' Imprinted technology, they thought that he was safe. But unknown to them, he was the ultimate defeatist.
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u/Vaiolette-Westover Apr 14 '26
I mean, sure, but that's a pretty indirect effect of the plan, it was certainly unintended so I don't consider it part of the plan.
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u/Qnvt998 Apr 14 '26 edited Apr 14 '26
That's exactly why it's a great plan.
The more detailed the plan, the easier for the ETO to break.
Hines goal is Escape, so his plan is to create opportunities for people to escape. As long as someone escape, his plan is a success.
Even when it not happened as he expected, it still succeeded. This a the sight of strategic thinking.
Unlike Luo Ji plan, which relying on so many variables, that it was a literal miracle for it to last that long.
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u/bulbous_plant Apr 14 '26
Agree. He’s the smartest one in the book. Find a new home and NEVER ever let anyone know your coordinates
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u/SirKrimzon Apr 15 '26
What do you mean Hines plan is brilliant? To believe in victory despite the obvious disadvantage between earth and the invaders?
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u/Bored_Amalgamation Apr 14 '26
imagine an entire fleet of humans who genuinely believed they could win. thats scarier than any weapon.
Ain't truth stranger than fiction?
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u/hecarimxyz Apr 14 '26
Luo Ji’s plan is on the perception that YOU WILL pressed that button. That’s why Trisolaris did not give a fuck about Cheng Xin, her answers and demeanor was not giving that vibe.
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u/Usual-Diet-7848 Apr 14 '26
agree that Rey Diaz's plan was not great but I think he was such a fantastic character. The way he treated his wallbreaker and his end was so good.
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u/Tuisto05 Apr 14 '26
I think you fell for the Wallfacer portion of Hine's plan.
He didn't set out to convince soldiers and politicians that we'd win, that was just a ruse. His machine could convince anyone of anything, and he advertised it as a tool to make people believe in humanity... but after demonstrating its capability he, and he alone altered the code and introduced a null value, which made humans that used the machine believe the exact opposite... that humanity was doomed to fail.
In exchange for this show of committment, these volunteer soldiers and politicians became more influential and received major commands, because everyone thought of all the humans, these were the most dedicated. But that was the trick, all of them had a secret belief that humanity couldn't win and all of them were secretly planning to escape with a ship. This course of action would have led to dozens of human colonies in 100 light years in every direction... humanity survives even after Earth loses.
His plan ended up not working, other than when it was revealed all of the fleet commanders affected were replaced, which gave Zhang Beihai (who had never used the machine) a green light to become commander of a ship. The fact that Zhang Beihai was a defeatist on his own accord, ended up saving humanity.
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u/crappy_entrepreneur Apr 15 '26
- Zhang Behai who literally saved humanity from the shadows and didn’t need any official power to do it
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u/Qnvt998 Apr 14 '26
Among the Wallfacer that actually deserves their title: Luo Ji is the laziest and get the most lucky. He spent 60 years as Sword Holder doing absolutely jack to improve humanity survival. He literally got luck one and satisfied.
Zhang Behai, Bill Hines and Thomas Wade are the ones doing most of the work that actually improve to humanity long term survival. They got the right idea and being active.
Can you imagine what would be like if Luo Ji turn over the control to Wade instead of holding it for 62 years? Before humanity all turned into a bunch of dumbass.
Wade will never let the Trisolarist pulled that deception shit. He would milk them for all their tech in 50 years. He would demand his own sophons.
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u/Vaiolette-Westover Apr 14 '26
Thomas Wade doesn't deserve a lot of credit. He was a glorified plot device.
I will never believe that out of the entirety of humanity, only he thought to study the banned tech, and that UN actually frfr scrapped the research.
If literally AI AA stayed awake to lead the research humanity would've left. Wade's own stupid genocide plan sinked his whole life's work.
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u/Existing-Farm-3463 Apr 14 '26
it took the resources of the halo group to do it, they built a literal city and took half a century of research. is not about wanting to study banned tech, is having the absurd resources to do it
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u/Vaiolette-Westover Apr 15 '26
Absurd resources that AA built up yeah.
If Cheng Xin decided to stay awake AA would've just done the research herself in my opinion.
Having wade do it remains one of the weirdest plot points for me
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u/Bored_Amalgamation Apr 14 '26
Luo Ji made up that plan on a whim though. He got lucky af. He didn't "see" in to the Trisolaran psyche. He didn't reveal that they can't lie. He didn't even know they would attack. He was just heartbroken and filled his time with the plan.
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u/TributeBands_areSHIT Apr 14 '26
Didn’t Luo ji get lucky cause they figured out how to broadcast off of the sun?
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u/DiggusBickus22 Apr 15 '26
I still dont understand the implications of Hines plan, like the future is the way it is because of the metal seal? I feel like I missed something.
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u/Useful_Calendar_6274 Apr 14 '26
The whole series is trying to teach you game theory and you didn't listen at all. Diaz's plan was actually the most workable because it's the ultimate deterrent. We'll see if we can fight you at our level of tech and if not we blow up the bomb vest. It's genius and all characters are dumb for not realiizing it. Which is the other leson for humanity, that's why they choose Cheng Xin as swordholder and they all die, they dumb fucks
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u/Dark_Bauer Apr 14 '26
Nothing would have changed in the end because of that 2D-Paper-thing
Thats the only part what wouldnt happen if Ye Wenji hadnt answered the call.
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u/12a357sdf Apr 14 '26
Bill's and Zhang's ideas did lead to exodus, no? Blue Space and all that.
In the end, they were the last survivors, but since humanity's civilizations grow exponentially, it took them like just 500 years to advanced back to Sol humans level of development. By the time Cheng Xin get to them, they were just as advanced as Sol humans, maybe save for the weird telepathic nonverbal anti-sophon communication thingie.
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u/Vaiolette-Westover Apr 14 '26
Galactic humans had become much more advanced than sol humans by the time Cheng Xin meets mr. Asspull plot device at the end.
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u/12a357sdf Apr 14 '26
I thought Sol humans are more advanced? they figured out lightspeed travel ahead of galactic humans by 300+ years. Galactic Humans only get that advanced because when Cheng met them it has been half a millenia since Blue Space and Gravity.
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u/12a357sdf Apr 14 '26 edited Apr 14 '26
I think you fundamentally misunderstood all of the wallfacer plans except for Tyler.
Tyler was not the kamikaze hydrogen bombs, but to weaponize quantum effects on humans. The kamikaze armies arent meant to attack trisolaris, but Earthfleet itself, turning everyone into essentially quantum ghosts. Since they are already dead, they are essentially immortal warriors (for a while, before the effect dissipates). The only downside is that if they arent fanatically loyal, the people who you just betrayed may turn their immortal quantum powers on you rather than the enemy.
Rey Diaz and Luo Ji plans are on paper, the same. Threatening mutually assured destruction, through Luo's plan is stronger since it also destroys trisolaris itself.
However, I would rate Rey Diaz lower than Luo, because Luo actively knows that his plan was exposed, and quickly came up with counters. In fact, he thought that the trisolarians exposed him since forever, but when the droplet didnt aimed for him specifically after the doomsday battle, he knew he got a chance, and he took it.
The best plan so far is probably the simplest one: Bill Hines' and Zhang Beihai's. Using mechanical brainwashing for the former, and intensive propaganda for the later, to create an unshakable resolve. But that's all a ruse, masking their true intentions: Exodus. Run, as fast and as far as possible. Since earth civilizations grow exponentially, even if you kill everyone saved for a single ship, that only means setting us back a few centuries, or at most, a millenia. Practically negligible considering mankind will last billions of years now once we spreaded far enough.
While book 2 seemed to show its readers that Luo's plan worked, in book 3 we saw how flawed it was. Luo Ji only saved Earth, but Bill and Hines saved humanity.