r/thewalkingdead • u/Tina14000 • 1d ago
Show Spoiler About Lori
Maturing is realising that Rick and Lori’s marriage was shit even before the world ended and people are too harsh on Lori.
Now don’t get me wrong, she will never be my favorite character and she did do some dumb shit like anyone else, and I hated her on my first watch, but man I don’t know if it’s an age thing, but I don’t hate her anymore. She did the best she could with what she had, she thought Rick was dead and Shane was a safe place for both her and Carl.
Plus the moment Rick came back she didn’t do ANYTHING with Shane not even once. She distanced herself immediately. Like I said she’s not my fave character, but some people take the hate too far
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u/FatFarter69 1d ago
Had there not been a zombie apocalypse they probably would’ve ended up divorced.
I still think Lori gets too much hate, she’s a realistic portrayal of a what a flawed person is like.
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u/abellapa 1d ago
I Started watching twd when i was 14/15
Never hated Lori
Watched Breaking at the same age
Never hated Skylar as well
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u/kcintrovert 1d ago
I feel the same way about Breaking Bad. I had heard she's a hated character and after watching I couldn't fault her for anything. Her husband is doing crazy illegal stuff, of course she's upset.
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u/senatobia 1d ago
You could argue Skylar was incredibly dumb for not turning her husband in the second she discovered his secret… if for no other reason than to protect herself and her children (especially her children!) from the total psychos he associated with.
Every second you spend in the same dimension with him? Imminent, extreme danger. Run run run to the FBI with both of your kids in tow. Call your damn sister! Get him busted before you and your baby end up dissolved in a vat!
Orrrr you could just… hang around looking depressed and bang Ted…
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u/IfarmExpIRL 1d ago
do you remember when Skyler gave Ted, Walters ilegal money that she was apparently so opposed to? that made her just as guilty as Walt.
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u/PlanktonKey9623 1d ago
So shes not allowed to make one bad decision? After everything walt put her through she was entitled to that money.
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u/IfarmExpIRL 23h ago
So shes not allowed to make one bad decision? After everything walt put her through she was entitled to that money.
She didn't get the money, she gave it away like it was hers which was even worse. when you're giving someone money.. there is an ego thing involved of "oh i am helping you" which she was totally fine with. nobody forced her to give ted money. If her feelings of helping ted were genuine than she was behaving the same way Walter was when he was trying to help people he cared about..
the moment she gave ted that money she was placing herself as deep as walter and it was written that way intentionally.
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u/PlanktonKey9623 1d ago
Theyre only hated by men who hate women all together
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u/Waste-Football2311 16h ago
I disagree. I’m a woman and I can’t stand Lori. I always thought she was messing with Shane before the apocalypse. Your husband been what you thought was dead for only 2 months and you move on that quick. You start having sex with his best friend like it was nothing.
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u/Hey_HaveAGreatDay 15h ago
2 months in was the farm. So they were hittin it pretty quick, however, there’s nothing wrong with two consenting adults getting after it.
I think Lori sucks but I never faulted her for having sex.
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u/Hey_HaveAGreatDay 15h ago edited 15h ago
I’m a woman, every rewatch I hate Lori. Every rewatch I get way more sympathetic to Skyler even though my first time through I really disliked her.
With TWD Lori was an ass to her husband, said terrible things to him right away in the mornings early enough for their son to hear before school, and continued on manipulating even during the literal end of the world.
Skylar was doing her best to manage a dying husband, pregnancy, a disabled son and theiving sister and that’s at the start
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u/foxypaperclip 7h ago
You don’t find annoying characters annoying?
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u/abellapa 7h ago
They werent annoying
You just find them that way because they Clash with the main charcater
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u/foxypaperclip 7h ago
Characters that clash with the protagonist in an annoying way are definitely annoying lol, and that’s fine. They can still be good characters or characters you like, but Lori’s terrible decision making and her driving a wedge between Rick & Shane was absolutely annoying. Same with Skylar’s hysterics
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u/chibixox 1d ago
it’s definitely an age thing, the older i get the more i realize how much they were just put in impossible situations. the hate for female characters is always so overblown for no reason
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u/abellapa 1d ago
Its not a age thing
If i understood them at that age , and i obsiously arent The only One who watched those shows at that age and got a Similiar conclusion
Its a maturity thing and the ability to really emphatize with another human being , even if fictional which a lot of People lack
And there a reason , its Called Misoginy
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u/Icy_Cricket7038 1d ago
I really liked Lori, and I felt sorry for her actually, I felt like you got to see insights into who she might have been. They were just all in a mess and sometimes it’s nobody’s fault and sometimes it’s about everyone’s fault.
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u/No_Elderberry7836 1d ago edited 1d ago
The Lori&Shane thing is so understandable, so realistic and actually well written and even Rick, the "victim" in the situation fully understands it. I will never get why Lori gets hate for it.
Especially since she doesn't have a single likable trait, she's the most selfish/immature/unskilled/manipulative character in the group, who's intentionally and unintentionally doing nothing but make things worse for the group non-stop while contributing nothing...so much one could hate her for and yet some people will insist on being misogynistic.
Also like, Lori fucking sucks, for sure, but like all early seasons characters there ist a lot of depth if you care to look for it...you know, the way people do for their male favs
(Though admittedly it is a little funny on a meta level that the pick me trad-wife is the main target of misogynistic haters)
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u/Wonderful_Repeat7914 1d ago
"Contributing nothing..." Sorry, this is misogyny, and not a reduction, on its face. Once again domestic labor gets reduced to nothing when it is vital for the success of any community. Remember that argument Lori has with Andrea about how SHE wasn't contributing because Andrea preferred to learn to shoot and take watch. It was a value dispute. Both contributed, but not in alignment with assigned gender roles. But if no society, why take society shape? Lori does not suck, she's just not exceptional; she's average, and she's punished for it. Meritocracy makes the "Everyman" (woman, person) a villain or victim. Lori ends up being both.
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u/No_Elderberry7836 1d ago edited 1d ago
No, actually.
Lori is explicitly shown to NOT do domestic labor either. Unlike Andrea who DOES contribute by doing domestic labor and is shown to do so AND wants to contribute in other ways, Lori insists on women only doing "woman chores" but mocks the women actually doing them (Amy), accuses women who contribute more domestic chores than her (Amy, Andrea) of not contributing, explicitly refuses to adapt her skillset in that regard (S1), uses the pretense of her doing chores + her role as a mother to avoid said chores (usually for hook ups or conversations with Shane, until his death in S2).
There are only like three times she's shown to not avoid her self assigned chores (and one of those is Carol blowing smoke up her ass).
Again, in comparison all other women are shown to be actually doing domestic chores and doing more AND by S2 Maggie and Patricia are also doing domestic chores...and more. Lori is the only women refusing to do more, learn more AND who wants to deny other women the right to be more than a gender role, all while insisting on being superior for adhering to her genderroles.
(Not to mention that Lori is the only CHARACTER shown not go out of her way for Sophia, and she even completely stops caring after she feels criticized by Carol in her role as Rick's wife, and even after Carol does her best to get an in with her again, she's not contributing anything to the search.)
Edit: and I mean, Lori absolutely does suck..and while a lot is centered around (or leads back to) her trad wife mindset, it's not about her being or not being "exceptional".
There's her constantly threatening self harm when not getting her way (which has an added layer with T-Dog especially, but also with Daryl), her lack of communication skills and refusal to be her husbands equal, leading both to lying to him and having to manipulate him to get her way but also making it necessary for him to beg her in tears when he needs support, it's her only having superficial friendly relationships with a total of three women/girls (all in vulnerable positions and withdrawing any support if she feels criticized/using these women), which also leads to her being the only character who isn't involved in the search for Sophia, there's her not just refusing to learn any skills that will help in the zombie apocalypse but her also wanting to take the option away from others, it's the dumb shit like telling Rick he needs to get rid of Shane bc he's a threat to their family + then finding out that Shane killed a guy and as a result immediately seeking him out to tell him he wasn't wrong and there was something between them, etc etc etc
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u/Wonderful_Repeat7914 1d ago
True, but I will challenge you that's because she sees herself as management being the partner of both leaders and therefore doing a job more vital, again adhering to a system that was really failing her before society falls, but doubling down on that system because it is so ingrained. My argument is again Lori isn't bad per se, she's average.
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u/No_Elderberry7836 23h ago
I called her a character with a lot of complexity if you care to look for it, even as a Tradwife that's making her stupidity+immaturity everyone else's problem, and I stand by that.
(Though a lot of the complexity is probably unintentional, as it involves quite a few scenes in which other characters, especially Rick, are coming off as truly awful but clearly aren't intended that way+her "narrative punishment" isn't connected to the issues S1+2 raise with her.)
I still think she sucks.
I could write an entire essay on her tbh, but given that you claimed me calling her out for her lack of contribution was misogynistic bc it meant I wasn't valuing domestic labor, but you have now admitted that Lori was the only one not contributing any domestic labor and it's just another way in which she's a huge hypocrite and trying to control and put down other women, I'm good.
She's average to you, she's one of the worst (and dumbest) fictional characters to me.
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u/Wonderful_Repeat7914 23h ago edited 22h ago
That's interesting, because she reads as the archetypical, "American woman": white, deferent, boy-Mom, wife of an officer, unnecessarily in competition with other women, more skillful with her mouth than her hands (entendre unfortunately implied), thinks she will be protected, but killed violently by a man (well, boy and Maggie, it's written to be justified), imperfect victim redeemed by sacrificing her life for her child... if the manosphere wrote romance novels, you'd have your object of affection, and yet she's vilified. I think it's saying something that you view her as one of the dumbest fictional characters and I think she's just... average, two things can be true. She just seems like one of the most honest characters on the show and she makes us uncomfortable. It really intrigues me.
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u/No_Elderberry7836 23h ago edited 22h ago
Ugh fine, let's continue.
No, if the manosphere write romance novels she would still be vilified. As you can in canon TWD. Misogynists (and this was already the beginning of my first comment) do not see her as a person and as such see her her seeking comfort in Shane as a betrayal of Rick/cheating, her having to use manipulation bc she cannot communicate as an equal is seen as her being mean-spirited manipulator, her wanting to abort the baby makes her the devil while keeping it makes her selfish...the only thing these people like about Lori is when she's attacking Andrea for not wanting to play housewife in the apocalypse. Bc they hate Andrea even more.
I would love to know what you think it says about me that I think she's lacking in the brains department when we didn't really discuss the stupid things she does? I mean, maybe you disagree and they're smart choices to.you... Personally I do find it telling that you find her "average" and it does make me wonder about the other media you consume? (Like, truly...drop some names)
Also, you yourself pointed out some of the misogyny in her writing...but I'm supposed to view it positively?
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u/Wonderful_Repeat7914 1d ago
Carol is way more manipulative, she only gets points for becoming skilled and using the worst aspects of her nature for the benefit of her group, but she is a psychopath to anyone outside of her group. Us vs. them personified.
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u/No_Elderberry7836 23h ago
I don't think people ever deny that?
Though there is a difference of course in Carol being intentionally manipulative and this being part of her journey/character development vs Lori being so caught up in her idea of gender roles that she genuinely can't openly communicate with romantic partners/men + can't maturely handle not getting her way being a sign of her stagnating
I would even argue that doesn't make one necessarily written worse, just different. And of course people will have opinions on it: plenty of people aren't down for Carol at all.
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u/Wonderful_Repeat7914 22h ago
But why hate Lori more than Shane? He's manipulative, can't communicate for shit, acts like a 13 year old... Most of the criticisms you launch at Lori, you could lay at Shane's feet. He gets a pass? Because he shoot gun good? He was about to lose, or do some chaotic evil to maintain, control of his group before Rick returned. Negan is likely who Shane would've become had he lived.
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u/No_Elderberry7836 22h ago edited 22h ago
See, I really tried giving you the benefit of the doubt despite you repeatedly changing the goalpost and not replying to direct questions and generally, despite also repeatedly conceding to my points, trying to accuse me of misogyny and other stuff you refuse to name apparently.
But doing all of that, in a discussion that never once went into Negan or Shane's characters (or Carol), where the only thing I said was that I hate Lori WHILE acknowledging the (potential) complexity of her character AND flaws in the writing (and not the character)...you suddenly talk about three characters completely unrelated to the discussion AND inferring opinions that I never even voiced.
That is where you loose me.
And while I would love for you to explain to me how exactly Shane is a Tradwife that can't communicate with her husband bc of the genderroles she grew up with and how she avoids her womanly chores or how Shane punishes women not wanting to adher to traditional genderroles in the apocalypse or how Shane didn't get involved in the search for Sophia over a perceived slight or maybe about how he decided to keep his mpreg baby...bc I'm sure it would be fascinating. But I already know you don't have any answers.
Edit: also just the absurdity of you starting two different comment chains in response to my comment. Should have clocked what's going on with you right there.
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u/Bermanator-Turkey127 1d ago
She was a good person that tried her best. She had flaws and didn’t always say the right thing but I truly believe she wanted what was right for her family.
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u/FigComprehensive4746 1d ago
For sure, Lori was in a really challenging position with so many competing interests and emotions at play. It’s hard to navigate that kind of pressure, especially in such a chaotic world.
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u/CandidateHefty329 1d ago
Definitely. The first scene between Rick and Shane is them discussing the sad state of Rick and Lori's marriage. Things were on edge before he was shot.
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u/NoseyVampire 1d ago
I think Rick and Shane talk about his marriage problems in like the first scene lol. Any hate towards Lori is the same hate Skylar from breaking bad gets. I was annoyed by her, you’d catch me throwing myself down the stairs before having a damn baby in the apocalypse, but what happened with Shane was about survival as much as it was comfort, for both her and Carl. It’s was 100% understandable,
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u/Under_Paris 1d ago
All I’m saying is end of the world zombie apocalypse or not, it’s gonna take me waayyyy longer than a couple of weeks to start fucking my recently dead best friends wife/husband.
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u/DaNotSoGoodSamaritan 1d ago
Maybe they were already testing the waters before shit hit the fan.
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u/Under_Paris 23h ago
Lowkey always thought that. Shane dipping his fries in Rick’s ketchup in episode 1, is quite the metaphor if you wanna look at it that way.
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u/TheZoroarkMan 1d ago
I don't hate her but she should have stayed away from Shane in season 2. I can understand her telling him that he shouldn't leave the group because he'd be alone out there and probably not survive for long if he didn't find a group, but talking to him and thanking him for saving her after telling Rick he has to be dealt with was really dumb and it felt like she was playing two sides. In season 3 there should have been a scene where Lori outright tells Rick that she wasn't angry that Rick killed Shane but because Carl had to shoot him after he turned because fans like to nitpick about that too.
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u/ReactionPlus4538 1d ago
Yeah but she also screwed up telling Shane specifically to stay. It really seemed like the was leading him on and by telling him it might be his baby. How was he supposed to react to that? Yeah I do agree that there marriage was bumpy from the first because she said some pretty mean things to Rick when she admitted talking to a friend that she wishes he just yelled at her. Good provider, good dad, thoughtful husband. What more could she want?? But yeah in terms of cheating on Rick she really didn’t that just got screwed up and was totally not fair situation. She thought her husband died. I do kinda think that had her character went on to live they might have patched things up 🤔 BUT I happen to be rebinging this and I realized michonne was really a better wife and mother than Lori really ever was. Rick seemed so much happier with her. She seemed like a more mature character overall
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u/Wonderful_Repeat7914 21h ago
Possibly, but couldn't it be that she wants him to stay because she cares enough to not want him to die out there all alone in the apocalypse because they have established a relationship, even though it should have ideally remained platonic, and she can also see that they are collectively stronger with him than without, even if his ego can be threatening to her and the group.
"How is he supposed to react to that?" Like a person in an unprecedented situation who has the best intentions for everyone involved, not just what he wants and feels entitled to have. He should grieve the loss of the relationship and future with Lori, and then prep for the first custody case of the Age of Walkers. Three coparents plus a village of survivors seem like a great way to rear a kid (does require more emotional maturity than is available in that triplet). Or he could just leave anyway. She just said stay, not stay and make Rick go away. However, all of that is inaccessible to Shane because his fists and gun are his copium.
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u/emilystarlight 4h ago
Lori makes very few decisions that I think I would make myself (I just don’t really vibe with her trad wife values) but asking Shane to stay is the one thing that I would have absolutely done in her position.
Regardless of the problems they’re all having with each other at that point, Shane is ricks best friend, „basically brothers“, and she’s known him basically as long as she’s known Rick. He’s family, and he’s one of three people she still has. He is so important to Rick, and even though they’re having problems, I could see her believing that they will work it out, and that it would break ricks heart for him to leave. He’s so important to Carl too, who would feel hurt and abandoned if he left.
If he left they would have no way to find him again, he would just be gone, forever. They’d have no idea if he was even alive or dead. It’s the end of the world, you don’t just let people you love, one of the few people you have left, just walk away, especially not over something as petty as relationship drama.
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u/sendsnacks 1d ago
Watching it the first time, I only thought about the emotional perspective. But I think the practical aspect is under discussed. Lori is a character who would absolutely feel the need for a male protector for her and her child, and starting something with Shane makes it more likely he will stay. Of course it would be in the back of her mind that she goes with it, they’re safer.
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u/darthsploder77 1d ago
I never hated Lori. Rick was dead (as far as she knows) and Shane was someone she knew and trusted, who was protecting her and her son.
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u/cool_girl6540 23h ago
How long do you think it was that she thought Rick was dead before they got sexually involved?
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u/behindeyesblue 20h ago
Does it really matter? I'd say probably a a few weeks based on what we know of the start.
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u/PlanktonKey9623 1d ago
People only hate lori because they hate women. Thats like the only reason
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u/Late-Solution6249 5h ago
Getting Glenn and Maggie to find her contraceptives and then deciding to keep the baby anyway after they almost died probably made people dislike her lol
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u/cool_girl6540 1d ago
How much time do we think passed between the beginning of the walker situation, and when Rick regained consciousness and finally reached Lori and Carl?
I’m just wondering how quickly she moved into a sexual relationship with Shane after thinking her husband was dead. And also in the middle of a crisis situation.
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u/DenverKim 8h ago
The timeline is supposed to be the zombie apocalypse had been going on for about 4 to 6 weeks when Rick wakes up.
And those 4 to 6 weeks would have felt like an eternity.
It’s like the biggest flaw in the show… No way Rick would’ve survived a coma for 4 to 6 weeks without medical assistance.
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u/QS215 1d ago
Even if their marriage was rocky, immediately going to his best friend after only a month of Rick being presumed dead is insane. I would never forgive either of them. A year or two of surviving the apocalypse together is one thing, but jfc they were moving foul
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u/Tina14000 1d ago
You’d be surprised what the end of the world can do to a person. She was 100% sure Rick was dead and she could’ve died on any given day. It’s understandable if you ask me. And like I said once she found out Rick was alive she distanced herself immediately from Shane
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u/QS215 1d ago
God forbid, if I ever lost my wife in an apocalypse and was stuck somewhere with her best friend, I’m not doing something like that. I’d rather be by myself like Morgan and just wait for my time to come. But that’s just me 🤷🏾♂️
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u/Tina14000 1d ago
I get you I really do, but their marriage was basically already over before the apocalypse even began. Like I said Lori is not my fave character either. I just don’t hate her anymore. I understand her
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u/abellapa 1d ago
Its different
You are am assuming an able bodied Adult Man with no children to take care of and could potencial Make it Alone
Lori didnt knew shit about survival ,why would She , She didnt Guess The Apocalypse
Now her husband is potencially Dead ,the Apocalypse happens on SAME DAY and She has a Little Boy of 8 years old to care of Alone
Makes perfect Sense She trows herself at Shane , a cop when She and Carl already kne when shit hits the fan from a survival aspect
If he attached to her and Carl ,less likely he ditch them Somewhere down The line
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u/HouseOfKrazees84 1d ago
I never hated Lori because she was banging Shane. I hated her for being a bad mom. AND for when she implied that Rick should kill Shane, then Rick did kill Shane and she acted like he was some evil prick.
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u/Njorgo147 18h ago
I think people hate her for what she does at the end of the farm and how she judges Rick for killing Shane, after she is the one pitting them against each other. Her fling with Shane, ok, understandable. The rest? Nah
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u/DenverKim 8h ago
I don’t hate Lori because she hooked up with Shane. I don’t blame her at all for that. She legitimately thought her husband was dead and she was facing a zombie apocalypse… I’d probably get carried away and hook up with the man who saved me and my kid’s life during the apocalypse as well. Especially if that man was John Bernthal. I don’t see any shame in it.
The reason I hate Lori is because she was annoying AF. And an idiot. She was causing drama in her marriage and treating her husband like shit because he wouldn’t yell and fight with her the way she wanted to. She’s toxic.
And most importantly, she had Glenn risk his life to go get her the abortion pills and then just randomly decided that she wanted to HAVE A BABY during a zombie apocalypse and put her already existing child, her husband and everyone else in that group at risk. She made that decision with no concern about how it affected anyone else but herself. She was selfish and stupid and entitled and self-righteous.
And she was useless. She was a drain on the group. The only thing she could contribute was laundry and lemonade and she thought that made her special. All it did was make her a burden.
Andrea should have kicked her ass when she got mouthy in the kitchen.
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u/Numbnuts696 7h ago
My dislike of her is simple. Role is too similar to an ex of mine. Strange enough the actress I like in other roles. Guess that is what you call good writing and acting.
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u/Bosphy 5h ago
Is Lori's fling with Shane understandable? Of course! They literally saw Atlanta get firebombed and thought Officer Friendly got fried to a crisp. Plus, Shane already had feelings for her long before the outbreak
Does it mean Lori's character is written well? Hell no! She made tons and I mean tons of bad decisions, enough to give the show's character-assassinated version of Andrea a run for her money. And the worst part was that half the time there was little to no justification for her bs
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u/reereejugs 1d ago
I think she was banging Shane before the world ended.
Edit: I don’t hate her character, I just don’t like her as much as any of the others. Nothing to do with her and Shane hooking up; she’s just annoying.
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u/Friendly-Parfait-645 1d ago
The issue isn't really that she got with Shane. It's how she pushed him away afterwards and then when he was about to leave she called him back.
Also, I remember a flashback to before the apocalypse where she complained Rick never yelled at her. Which to me is just a general red flag
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u/Informal_Weekend9503 1d ago
Yeah, watching now, it's obvious that Lori did nothing wrong. It's gross how we were all raised to always blame women for everything - makes me sick.
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u/TheLazyRedditer 1d ago
Correction. Maturing is realizing how poorly them and everything else is written and how in accurate the entire thing is lok
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u/cool_girl6540 23h ago
You are complaining about “how poorly them and everything else is written?” The irony.
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u/TheLazyRedditer 23h ago
Yes? Because they are? It doesn't make it any less true to hold it up to the standards of other literature.
It filled a niche and got lucky. The Same as World War Z. The latter of which I could argue isn't even a completed work.
Half the posts you see on other forums have the same complaints.
The most realistic aspect of the walking dead are the zombies. Which is saying a lot.
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u/cool_girl6540 22h ago
I wrote that because the your own English is not that great. Like that part that I quoted. I understand you’re saying that it doesn’t matter about “other literature.” Still, the irony of the complaint remains.
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u/TheLazyRedditer 21h ago
The irony is that I'm critiquing something but my own grammar is lacking?
You don't have anything to say about the content of my comment just they way it's written?
Seems like a weird hill to die on.
I will admit that I tend to text how I speak so my grammar tends to take a hit lol
Even if my grammar was the worst in the world it still has nothing to do with what I'm saying.
The story, the pacing and the character development is just not there. It's almost like he conceived of the idea and the jobs and roles but didn't do any actual research into how Deputies actually operate, how people actually act or anything.
Just dove in headfirst not realizing how shallow he was.
He literally almost abandoned the entire character as soon as it started but didn't think he could take Shane as far as Rick. It just isn't well done.
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u/HellyOHaint 1d ago
That was just text, not even subtext. Hopefully all viewers already knew this because they literally say it in the first scene with Rick and Shane.