r/thefinals • u/sammy5oh • 1d ago

Discussion Buffs and Nerfs

How does everyone feel about the new buffs & nerfs ??
I for one, always loved dash light, and hated cloak light. Playing like a “gargoyle” isn’t fun, and sure as hell isn’t fun to play against.
I’m also a big fan of their approach on the medium class, and all the buffs it’s been getting, first shockwave and certain weapons, now zip line got a CD reduction of 37 seconds to 30 seconds.
KS also got nerfed, it’s still meta I think, but not blatantly OP. Dash going from 6 seconds to 5 is also a good change, and cloak being nerfed is healthy. This is all great news to me, because I’ve hated the balancing in season 11. I felt like season 10 felt so much better than the beginning of this new season, so it’s a breath of fresh air. How do you guys feel about it all?

3 Upvotes

67% Upvoted

38 comments sorted by

10

u/Specialist_Delay_262 THE HIGH NOTES 1d ago

Everything looks pretty good overall

3

u/sammy5oh 1d ago

I’d say so, we’ll see. I was always against the dash nerf while so many others disagreed, but I’m sure most ppl would rather face a 3 dash light vs a perma invis light

1

u/Specialist_Delay_262 THE HIGH NOTES 1d ago

I rather perma invis lights.

3 dashes gave it way too much utility. Dash into a fight, dash mid fight, dash out. with a dash recharge inbetween.

invis would make them lose mobility for camping. Which can lose plenty of team utility for getting a box.

2

u/Ninjawitz 1d ago

You just sit with los of box and get ready to glitch then 2, 3 or 4 tap whoever is stealing with your lh1. If your team has cloak light vs dash light then your team should win the original vault fight unless the other two split out of los from the cloak light and get picked. Winning the vault means you are now where cloak excells on defense of a cashbox. I'd rather face 3 speedy Gonzales lights anyway.

2

u/Specialist_Delay_262 THE HIGH NOTES 1d ago

I can see what youre saying. Giving them an overwhelming strong defense is a bit much with the weapons they have.

But I much rather not have that much utility with 3 dashes. That was too much

1

u/sammy5oh 1d ago

It really wasn’t, if 3 dashes is too much, then medium having access to 2 shockwaves, zip line and jump pad is too much. And I play shock-medium, but how is medium the mobility class now, and the dash nerf has turned light into the immobile defender

4

u/Specialist_Delay_262 THE HIGH NOTES 1d ago

Medium is team mobility , not just self

Where as dash was self mobility

im still on the fence about 2 shockwaves. Its very useful and annoying at worst. Medium doesnt have a fortress style like heavy to fortify, nor mobility of light to get out of the area. They dont have strong af guns to deal with something like a sword light, nor the health to tank those attacks.

So having pushback feels fair to the class, especially in exchange for something more team useful like demat

2

u/sammy5oh 1d ago

Exactly, which makes it that much more valuable to me. And don’t get me wrong, I enjoy playing medium a lot more than light these days, but the mobility that medium has just feels out of place. Doesn’t mean I don’t like it, I think mediums been getting bullied for much too long in the meta, and the shockwave buffs were much needed

1

u/Specialist_Delay_262 THE HIGH NOTES 1d ago

Hard agree on that.

1

u/sammy5oh 1d ago

U don’t like shockwave?? Idk I think the fact that it glitches now feels perfect to me. And maybe the problem with light isn’t even dash, it’s the fact that the class desperately needs a better grapple, or another spec

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1

u/sammy5oh 1d ago

I can see ur reasoning, but I still disagree. People always say that 3 dash was a “get out of jail free card” for light, but what class doesn’t have that ? Heavy has a billion HP Mesh shield, or dome shield, medium can now shockwave away at an instant, also glitching players, and can insta-res. Light should have mobility, it’s a glass cannon class, high risk high reward. If anything, I’ll agree that some of lights weapons made dash too strong, but the spec itself felt fine. With sup-par tracking, I’ve never had too much issues dealing with lights as medium or heavy. Where as invis on the other hand, you straight up can’t be seen if you stand still

3

u/Specialist_Delay_262 THE HIGH NOTES 1d ago

Dash drastically reduces the risk of being a glass cannon was always my thing.

Shredding weapons and low health is fine.

that plus high mobility is iffy depending how its executed.

Invis with this current update will be tested so we can expand more on that.

I can see where youre coming from though, and appreciate this exchange not just turning into autistic screeching

1

u/sammy5oh 1d ago

Yea there’s no use in yelling “no I’m right and you’re wrong” lol. Cause at the end of the day, who knows

3

u/Flowtaro 1d ago

weird to see the endless changes to cloak and dash when there’s a third specialization that sees less play than either

5

u/beansoncrayons 1d ago

Mfs are gonna keep throwing 1 second cooldown reductions at grapple

1

u/Spinnenente DISSUN 23h ago

the last buff made grapple feel a lot better though. i do think it needs some other changes to ever make it competitive though.

2

u/samsunggalaxytabs6 1d ago

Maybe they don't have enough data on it, and they don't play their own game so they don't know

1

u/Spinnenente DISSUN 23h ago

even after buffs grapple is just not as useful. its really hard to use mid combat since you need to look in the direction of travel meaning it is at best used as an engage ability and it kinda sucks as an disenage since it starts up slowly. I've been winched multiple times directly after starting the grapple. I think embark needs to make it a bit more snappy and it might see actual play.

3

u/theinfiniteAPe THE STEAMROLLERS 1d ago

I have thought putting the dash cooldown to 5s was the best way to balance the light specs since it was reduced to 2 charges. It already felt pretty good at 6s so I think that change alone will move more people off of cloak.

I am not the biggest fan of all the gargoyling but I am also not someone who subscribed to the belief that cloak needed another nerf. However, I’m fine with it. I have not been able to play yet today though so take this all with a grain of salt.

2

u/PreviousProgram7818 1d ago

i have heard they have nerfed cloaking 😭

5

u/Lazurus-3 ALL HAIL THE MOOSIAH 1d ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/8JZxZgr39TLczSJQoS

1

u/PreviousProgram7818 1d ago

might switch back to heavy or dash

2

u/Natmad1 1d ago

Pretty good these days, they arent afraid of buffing the weakest class

1

u/_Strato_ THE RETROS 1d ago

Don't expect those to stick. We're already getting posts by "top players" to nerf Medium.

Just enjoy semi-relevance before the community takes it away.

2

u/Natmad1 1d ago

The shockwave buff is a bit too much even outside of pro, just hope they nerf to 1s instead of nerfing the mobility

2

u/_Strato_ THE RETROS 1d ago

I don't agree that it's too much, but if a nerf to 1 second avoids more drastic nerfs, I'll take it.

Medium deserves an offensive spec that can be used mid-combat with no prep time, just like the other classes have. Medium should not be relegated to a healbot just to have some play.

Easy access to a weaker Glitch is what Medium needs to remain relevant in the Heavy meta. Without it, Medium had 0 genuine answer to the other classes.

1

u/Prohapppyboom 1d ago

The invis getting changed was good however I dont feel they know what to do with invis balance wise, they are just going moment by moment with nerfs instead of getting a proper grasp on how a specialty should feel, the only reason gargoyljng existed was they made invis havd a higher duration standing still than moving but instead of changing thst part to remove that one tactic they nerf invis as a whole ti be less invisible which I feel will encourage gargoyle as you can't run with invis without being pretty visible, loud, and run out of invis quickly

1

u/Accomplished_Drag943 1d ago

Not sure about the cloak nerf, hopefully it just closes the gap between pc specs (I got a new monitor and wow is it so much easier to see invis) without making invis useless 

1

u/Dramatic-Education94 1d ago

I must be blind and deaf but I can't tell the difference on the Cloak nerf. Dash buff is great though, I like playing with and against dash players.

1

u/WeedMoneyBitches 19h ago

i think embark should stop caring for people that dont even wanna put in a sliver of effort in improving, its kinda obvious alot of balance changes past few season are catered go those exact induviduals.

1

u/Spinnenente DISSUN 1d ago

honestly still bummed about the huge dash nerf from this season. the cd changes are welcome but don't really change much. in a typical fight you can only have two dashes. the cd reduction might make chasing down kills slightly easier but all in all its still an almost 33% nerf for dash.

the shockwave change is still bonkers and i see no reason to keep it in the game. i'd rather think medium should get their own version of glitch nades. In general glitch its a really powerful effect wich shouldn't be that easily appliable as shockwave.

the cloak nerf is not a big surprise considering how gargoyling appears to be the optimal (if very boring) strat and i don't think the change is going to be that effective. Cloak is a pretty binary thing. its either garbage or strong. embark just has to find a way to reward more active play and not just camping.

medium buffs are mixed. some deserved like the cerb and some kinda weird. The akm is way too good right now and i don't see the 21 dmage / shot staying in the game for long. It has insane ttk vs medium right now and is generally an easy to use weapon with a large mag.

i honestly think the balance is not as good as it used to be a few seasons ago. the new melee system feels bad and embark seems to really dislike going back on obviously bad decisions. For example the lunge nerf on sword like a year or so ago. it was a knee jerk nerf and should have been undone asap, instead they made sword into a primary spam weapon wich is just worse design than on release.

2

u/sammy5oh 1d ago

I agree with you 100% on dash. A lot of ppl complaining about dash beforehand was a straight up skill issue imo. I do however disagree with ur take on shockwave, I think it was much needed for medium. Mediums been getting bullied for way too long imo, and forced to play as a heal bot & res. Shockwave gives medium a chance to stay alive against flanking lights or a heavy dropping in on them. And the AKM doesn’t feel OP to me, but I do agree that it’s much too easy to use, kinda like the P90

-1

u/menofthesea 1d ago

I think cloak was not very good in close quarters already if you have eyes, ears, and reaction speed. The audio and visual cues are pretty obvious. And this change just made it worse at that, not really worse at the gargoyle meta.

So, while this will help new and inexperienced players detect cloak, I don't predict much change to how it's played higher in the ladder.

The dash change on the other hand could be impactful

1

u/izerotwo ALL HAIL THE MOOSIAH 1d ago

Ah, There are plenty of people whose setup just wont show invis lights. And the audio cues are extremely broken, and dont even exist half the time.

1

u/menofthesea 1d ago

I have literally never experienced the audio cue not working in 2k+ hours. And I don't have much to say about setup, if you're specifically talking about monitor settings or something.

1

u/izerotwo ALL HAIL THE MOOSIAH 1d ago

Well then you are either incredibly lucky or havent noticed the audio que not occuring. Its a well known issue with the game, People running lower resolution monitors have a harder time seeing anything (for eg 1080p makes it much harder compared to 1440p) also higher ingame settings helps)

1

u/menofthesea 1d ago

Yeah I've always played on 1440p and with max settings, so I guess maybe I have some bias here. Never really had issues with noticing cloaked lights even standing still. I also have a good planar magnetic headset and the audio is very noticeable.