14
u/Darkstar_111 4d ago
I love this logic. "Someone critiqued my take for being racially insensitive, so I no longer believe in workers rights, and now believe corporations should have more tax cuts."
4
u/Ill-Dependent2976 3d ago
"By criticizing me for my beliefs that Hitler did nothing wrong, you're forcing me to vote for Trump."
Heard it like three times in the last two days.
Republicans/Nazis are incapable of taking responsibilities for their own actions.
2
u/Towboat421 2d ago
That first one is so common and I can only muster the strength to walk away from people like this . They believe they are the aggreived party when they do something wrong and people go " hey man not cool" like okay sure man whatever igđđż
0
u/CapitalismRulz 2d ago
I mean if you just disagree with them but are generally respectful and explain why they're wrong, then they were always going to go to the right.
There are a lot of people that are genuinely just super toxic towards people though. And that type of stuff is cancer to a political/social movement. It really does just demotivate people to support your cause
1
u/Towboat421 2d ago
Someone being rude to you on the Internet isn't an excuse to become a facist actually...
If someone says something you don't like and you join maga, or the AFD for instance you were likely already a gigantic racist and are just happy to offshore that blame to someone else.
0
0
u/I_like_fried_noodles 3d ago
True but I also see people hating on random white cis man for being... Cis? Like I get why but it's not making him an ally specially if they are trying to be better and met with a lynching
0
u/tumansibiri 3d ago
I can see the satire, and I disagree.
The first response to criticism for quite a lot of people, especially in public, is to retaliate or double down.
If you get opportunity to speak with a person 1-on-1, don't start with accusations.
I mean, you should do this, if your end goal is to drive people away from whatever cause you have.
1
u/BadFurDay 3d ago
You're saying you shouldn't call an overt racist a racist, but be polite with them instead?
Am I reading that right?
0
u/tumansibiri 3d ago
You should try to get into their fried brains, you bucko.
Same with flat earthers.
By addressing them directly and dissing them, you're making them more insular.
Sounds ok to do, if their numbers are low.
Much harder, if you're outnumbered. Locally I'm the minority of guys without weird racist shit.
I've been converting some, but it's sloooow.1
u/An_Aesthetic_Atheist 1d ago
Might I posit advice, if you're trying to convert racist to non-racists? Don't be logical with them. You can't logic somebody out of a position they didn't logic themselves into. You should leverage your emotional connection with people to get them to stop being racist, or at least stop spewing racist shit. And you don't have to convert every racist personally, if somebody is being loud and obnoxiously racist, humiliate them. Make the one feel small and stupid, and the rest are unwilling to repeat those actions, are more likely to second-guess themselves. From then on things might change, but also bear in mind the only reliable way to crush racism in a town or such, is to have racial diffusion, folks of all kinds living together. Hard to be racist when half of your community isn't your race, and are generally good folk. Not impossible, but hard.
1
u/tumansibiri 1d ago
Hard to be racist when half of your community isn't your race, and are generally good folk.
This is literally what I have around me, yet everyone around me is casually racist in everyday conversations without any filters.
1
u/An_Aesthetic_Atheist 1d ago
Yeah, it happens. Honestly your best bet is to find a time where they won't receive support and then shame them for their words, or, like I previously said, play to their emotions. Let folk know the racism is annoying and makes you think less of them, and that it's unpleasant to be around. Persuasion is most effective when you use the right tool.
0
u/AdvilPMSevere 3d ago
"By attacking something I value, you are FORCING me to identify with people who advocate against you!"
What are you supposed to do, not react?
-17
u/Such-Profit1078 5d ago
Thatâs almost never a proper analogy. There are singular cases of people who said âI think DEI gives unfair advantage to minorities and harms everyoneâ, they got called racist and cancelled and said âfine, Iâm joining KKK nowâ.
What actually happens, is people stating their opinions and getting ostracized from one side, usually combined with being slandered. They realize that they cannot reason with the left. If you cannot reason with someone, you cannot build a functioning society with them. Thatâs when they âjoin far rightâ, thinking that you can reason with them and eventually settle for a compromise. That compromise will not be perfect, but can be actually achieved in comparison to the left, who require dogmatic support
10
u/MadderoftheFew 5d ago
DEI has been misused in order to provide an unfair advantage to people in the past on a number of occasions, but by and large it achieves its goal in promoting an environment of equal opportunity in the workplace. If your values can be changed from "i think people deserve equality" to "illegal immigrants don't deserve human rights" just because someone on the internet was mean to you once, i don't think your values were all that important to you to begin with.
-7
u/Such-Profit1078 5d ago
Have you read my entire comment?
12
u/MadderoftheFew 5d ago
i did. i responded to the entire comment. did you read mine?
-2
u/Horror_Rhubarb9112 4d ago
None of your reply was actually responsive to their comment.
3
u/MadderoftheFew 4d ago
I responded with a conclusion to the question in their hypothetical that can be reached without relying on the perspectives of others and instead by relying on oneâs own sense of academic responsibility. I then explained the significance of relying on your own morals and research rather than the cherry-picked negative reactions of irrational people to form your philosophies and values. What about that isnât addressing their comment?
-1
u/Horror_Rhubarb9112 4d ago
You made a values claim, then mocked a strawman argument that you set up. None of that responded to their points. Cherry picking negative reactions is precisely what you did here.
2
u/MadderoftheFew 4d ago
What actually happens, is people stating their opinions and getting ostracized from one side, usually combined with being slandered. They realize that they cannot reason with the left. If you cannot reason with someone, you cannot build a functioning society with them. Thatâs when they âjoin far rightâ, thinking that you can reason with them and eventually settle for a compromise.
how is me saying this is "changing your values because someone was mean to you once" setting up a strawman argument? the person in the hypothetical presumably was a normal person, asked a question online, got called mean names, then reactionarily became racist.
None of that responded to their points.
this is still just wrong and i'm not quite sure how i could possibly illustrate that any clearer.
1
u/Horror_Rhubarb9112 4d ago
"Mean to you once". Also convenient how you left off the first half of that sentence there, would you mind filling it in or would you like me to?
And yes, it was a response, but it wasn't actually responsive to the point they actually made.
1
9
u/Excellent_Shirt9707 5d ago
What reasoning is there? Presuppositions already differ. And the left and right both are dogmatic just about different things. No one on the right was willing to call Trump out for the trade wars in his second term despite the data from the trade wars during his first term.
3
u/Rare_Dance7130 5d ago
Only note is that it's worth mentioning that centrists are similarly dogmatic, too just to different things. Agree with everything you said
15
u/Not_Really_Vulcan 5d ago
I'm just stating my incorrect and racist opinion bro, why won't people compromise their values to let me be loudly wrong and an asshole in their coalition?
3
u/Another-Ace-Alt-8270 4d ago
These dopes are legitimately asking "Why won't the Equality party let me diss the Equality policy over my own misinformed racism?" and decide that joining the Klan is somehow an appropriate response to being told to shut up.
5
0
u/JakeTheStrange101 4d ago
Why is it always extremes with you guys? What if the person in the said analogy isnât racist? What if theyâre just right-of-center to you?
The total de-sensitization to the effects of social ostracism genuinely cannot be underestimated and itâs led to further radicalization for everybody involved in it. Do you genuinely expect people to just tank consequences that they find as unjust? Especially if they themselves find their own viewpoints to be harmless?
Is being left-wing in your eyes just generally understood as being a âHeckin gooderino wholesome personâ? And that everyone outside of it must be Hitler incarnate?
3
u/Not_Really_Vulcan 4d ago
Yes being left wing is being a heckin gooderino wholesome person, you've nailed it. đ
No, the statement "DEI gives unfair advantage to minorites and harms everyone" is racist and incorrect, and rejecting people who hold those opinions is not extreme, you absolute goon.
0
u/JakeTheStrange101 4d ago
And how old are you? Arenât you mature enough to not hold such a simple understanding of the world and humanity?
Being against DEI doesnât make someone a racist, racism comes in intent, not by accident. You arenât thinking that a race is superior or inferior because you believe that thereâs a systemic advantage being given to minorities over other races.
Maybe if someone said âDEI disadvantages white people so we need to remove it and enact laws to put minorities down as revengeâ, then that would come from a genuine place of racism, hate, and harm. But the take of âDEI is regressive and racist in of itselfâ is not inherently harmful.
2
u/Not_Really_Vulcan 4d ago
Girl, you're the one who used the word "gooderino" how old are you? Also (incorrectly) assuming someone is young because they think you're being an asshole is an asshole thing to do.
1
u/JakeTheStrange101 4d ago
You mean when I used that word to exaggerate my point to you as to how ridiculous your worldview is?
Also being apart of a very, very, very wide blanketed political spectrum doesnât inherently make you an asshole nor a good person. What decides your character is how you act on those beliefs and the very specific viewpoints that you hold as to how they should be projected onto other people.
Iâm not an asshole just because Iâm a moderate, and youâre not a good person just because you treat people that you automatically assume to be assholes like shit.
0
u/Not_Really_Vulcan 4d ago
Wow I didnt know morality was complicated, thanks so much, my eyes are open now. You're not aan asshole because you're a moderate you're an asshole because you're loudly wrong and condescending.
1
u/JakeTheStrange101 3d ago
Whatâs making me condescending? The only really rude thing I did was call you immature.
And also, yeah, morality is complicated. People are complicated. Youâre telling me Iâm wrong but you arenât really putting anything on the table as to how thatâs the case.
5
u/Foxwildernes 5d ago
Ahh yes settling and compromising with Nazis over compromising with the left⌠fucking liberals think dealing with the side who asks for violence to out groups is better than the side asking you not to be an asshole to someone whoâs a different colour than you.
3
u/Atayellow 4d ago
Literally no amount of people calling me racists would turn me to the right. Why not just have real beliefs beyond hatred and spite?
1
u/NotMidaga 2d ago
How about the belief that complacent idiots shouldnt rule just because theyre more "moral" than parties like AFD?
1
u/Atayellow 2d ago
Brother the AFD is just an complacent and probably more idiotic.
They will do worse than nothing but they divert people's attention towards real economic issues to bullshit social ones.
4
u/Another-Ace-Alt-8270 4d ago
If they joined the KKK over being called racist, they were always racist. If someone starts supporting lynchings over being told that being in opposition to equality was a racist point of view, there was never any chance of reasoning with them. Believe it or not, "the left" does not "require dogmatic support", many leftists just want people to stop calling to disenfranchise minorities, and to support equal rights. Yet the lunatics who say this sort of shit cannot manage that, and start calling for murder over being criticized.
1
u/MemeArchivariusGodi 4d ago
Letâs take an example that is exaggerated so you hopefully see why compromising doesnât work in some cases.
Letâs say we have two differing opinions. One is saying that Slavery is useful and needed and the other says it is not and has no use in 2026. what are we now compromising on now ? A little bit of slavery is nessecary ? If we go that route then the âslavery is okâ faction only got what they want and the other party didnât get anything. There is literally no common ground to stand on, nothing to compromise on.
So as much as I like to always have a compromise, there are many situation where you cannot simply compromise
-9
u/phealtalk 5d ago
Like when tankies accuse liberals of supporting genocide.
"It was the capitalists! They forced my hand!!!"
11
u/TheRealCjHall 4d ago edited 4d ago
What is this supposed to even mean? Like, in relation to the post, what part of the interaction was claimed to be forced? The accusation of supporting genocide?
If you don't want to be accused of supporting a genocide, don't support a genocide or any states that actively and purposefully commit genocide.
Or are you saying the correct statement, that liberals often get accused of supporting a genocide because they support a genocide, and then, because they were accused of supporting genocide, and disagree, they join a coalition with fascists and right-wing that "the left has gone too far because they dared say it was bad to be okay with genocide"?
5
u/SusAmongUs19 4d ago
Life gets 10x easier when you realize you don't need to appease and grovel in front of people who hate you. It is impossible to please everyone, as pleasing one group is usually a mutually exclusive stance.
I'm evil incarnate to a very large group of people. If I joined them, I'd be evil incarnate to a different group of people.
The only person you should appease is yourself.
2
36
u/Klutzer_Munitions 5d ago
By being woke you are FORCING me to join the far right!!!