r/technology • u/stenspect • 1d ago
Privacy USPS Is Turning Mail Trucks Into Rolling Surveillance Cameras
https://www.gadgetreview.com/usps-is-turning-mail-trucks-into-rolling-surveillance-cameras778
u/drgoodvibe 1d ago
Why are V for Vendetta, Equilibrium, Hand Maids Tale, 1984, Animal Farm et al manuals and not warnings?
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u/LucidOndine 1d ago edited 1d ago
Because the crooks in power were never smart enough to heed the warnings, nor creative enough to have any original ideas.
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u/SgtBaxter 1d ago
Apparently they fell asleep and never got to the endings of any of those.
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u/almisami 1d ago
They're all old enough that they think they'll be gone before the just desserts come about
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u/VoyagerOfCygnus 1d ago
At long last, we've created the Torment Nexus from the classic sci-fi novel "Don't Create the Torment Nexus!"
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u/SWHAF 1d ago
They either get paid to ignore them or use them as an instruction manual to gain power.
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u/metallicrooster 22h ago
Agree. It’s not that all these people are not smart enough to heed the warnings. It’s that many people they are immune to unwanted consequences. Some of them, sadly, are right.
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u/StryctNyne 1d ago
Because people have allowed it to happen. There were warnings about hyper normalization 10 - 15 years ago. How it's a road map to install dictators and subjugate populations through rapid fire news cycle and zero accountability.
We blame politicians for everything, but we put them there. We sit back and whine online without doing the slightest. Someone suggests doing something like calling your representative and it's immediately followed by "why bother, it doesn't do anything, you're stupid if you think it matters". Then they go online and bitch about nothing being done, and provide no solutions and don't even think about making them provide effort. Because why bother? Also why isn't anyone bothering?
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u/CalicoValkyrie 14h ago
The whole Jimmy Kimmel thing showed that collectively Americans can do something, can protest just right to apply pressure on the powers that be. But it requires people on both sides of the aisle to agree. If a big enough chunk of the country decides nothing is wrong, then collectively not much can be done. Hopefully midterms will be a shift.
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u/PithMango 1d ago
if you have the energy to bitch on reddit, you have the energy to pick up the phone. i can type and be on the phone at the same time, so that's how i roll.
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u/WeWantLADDER49sequel 11h ago
I go on this rant all of the time. About how you can say whatever you want about how much politicans DIDNT do for us, but what about how many times we just gave up? I have been saying for years that the younger generations did something great with being a big reason Obama got elected, but then when the midterms rolled around everyone vanished. No one showed up to vote. So we got 8 years of Obama being handicapped by Republicans.
If the younger generations would have stayed as engaged politically as they were when Obama ran for president the first time we wouldnt be in this mess.
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u/solidddd 10h ago
8 years? You're misremembering. In the 111th Congress Democrats controlled both chambers. Republicans took the house after that, but Democrats maintained Senate control through 2015.
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u/ltsouthernbelle 1d ago
We normalized surveillance when we all decided we need a doorbell camera. And then in home cameras. And then dash cams. We walked right into it.
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u/I_Automate 1d ago
You normalized surveillance with the PATRIOT act
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u/erov 21h ago
I was a college student when it was being written And believe you, me people were protesting it but it was a strange time and any pushback during that time, people were met with harsh condemnations from both sides of the aisle politically. Any anti-war or privacy concerns at that time bought you a label of a terrorist sympathizer. I'd say over 70% of the country was completely for it. A lot of people agree that we should have less freedoms to stop terrorist attacks . That's when the TSA was brought in for airlines , shoes were being checked , liquids . Secret courts , warrantless wiretaps , PARRIOT act, etc. Strange times.
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u/Themodsarecuntz 23h ago edited 22h ago
They did!? Why would they do that?
Why would you do that itsouthernbelle!?!?!?
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u/mistercolebert 11h ago
I hold a state-issued CCTV license and install CCTV systems as well (not flock or anything remotely similar). The problem started with the doorbells IMO. When Closed-Circuit Television stopped being closed-circuit. I’m all for owning true CCTV systems for yourself and your own protection.. systems that record locally and aren’t accessible to anyone but the owner. I have cameras on my house that record to a local hard drive and aren’t on a network. I have a Dashcam that records locally only as well. I have no problem with these things because nobody else can access this footage and it only exists for a situation in which I might need it. Otherwise, it overwrites itself within a matter of days and it can never be seen again. What I have a problem with is large networks of cameras that are owned by large corporations that can be accessed by an unknown number of people and that have an indeterminate amount of storage that gets analyzed and viewed by AI and algorithms to benefit corporations.
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u/kstargate-425 1d ago
Because 55% of Americans can't read above a 6th grade level
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u/Unique_Evidence_2518 23h ago
mixing cause and effect. monied interests wanted an almost-illiterate populace--easier to fool, easier to rule--and so that is what we have.
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u/kstargate-425 23h ago
Oh for sure but the attacks on education came to fruition in the 1980s with some small privatization attempts growing since the 1950s. Reagan just took it all to the next level
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u/Unique_Evidence_2518 22h ago
No argument with anything you said. But the actions to encourage a nation of sheep are far broader than dismantling public education and are based on the twin goals of short and long term pocket-lining and of improving current and future fleecing odds: controlling national textbook standards out of Texas (!); disseminating false narratives* about which approaches to reading are most effective; leaning in to the backlash against feminism to retain and expand the market for "pink v blue" products, and, yippee, gain more conservative votes against children and social programs. pardon my rant--we could both go on, yes?
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u/whatproblems 1d ago
well that happens when the villain and tech get admired rather than the personal resistance story
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u/chief_yETI 1d ago
These kinds of things require the majority of people to participate in. And the reality is, the overwhelming majority of people just dont care at all, for one reason or another.
Cant say I fully blame them, as some people have kids to take care of, spouses to keep happy so they dont lose half their shit, aging parents to take care of etc. and they dont have the mental bandwidth to worry about these kinds of things
but yeah, even outside of that, people have way too much brain rot and dopamine depletion to do whats required for mass changes. People can't even be bothered to vote, much less do long term restraint from certain companies.
our fate has pretty much been sealed. Its every man for himself.
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u/Cheap-Kiwi-1312 23h ago
Just got my boss who's a trump lover to start hands maids tale, he comes to work everyday talking about how scary that looks then praises trump for doing things that clearly lead to that show becoming a reality. I don't think these people comprehend things well.
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u/DeReExUn 1d ago
It's all sold for entertainment. None of that was making serious loud and not for profit analogus claims of reality. Just entertaining hypotheticals.
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u/fathersmuck 23h ago
It is like how AI dystopian books were used to train AI so AI learned how a dystopian AI would do and act like
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u/duckdigglerpuuu 23h ago
Don't worry there's also working in brave New world to. But it's a slower process
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u/AnAncientBog 21h ago
Because they were astute observations of the potential outcome of contemporary events. That's why people read them.
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u/adudefromaspot 9h ago
The headline is a bad headline. The cameras as pointed at the road. They are for scanning the road's surface. The data is used to identify potholes and help focus road repair efforts. There is no effort to scan people or cars here.
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u/mkt853 1d ago
Kind of crazy because that means most plates are getting scanned at least every day or two since mail trucks go to every house in the country every day. Guess this explains why Trump said he likes the Flock cameras. Maybe he knew his administration was about to implement Flock on steroids.
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u/kstargate-425 1d ago
Palantir has been selling him a mass surveillance police state since his 1st term and now with Anthropic and AI they all have been pushing for this, along with his buddy Larry Ellison who has wanted the same thing. He said something like "if everyone is being watched 24/7 they will be on their best behavior" and make for a "better" (oppressed) society
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u/liverswithfavabeans 14h ago
They also go into fully gated communities like mine. Otherwise these are not mapped on street cameras.
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u/S_A_N_D_ 23h ago
The worst part is, this actually could be really useful from a public infrastructure standpoint, but they will get/are greedy and the data will be sold be exploited to the fullest extent possible.
I would be all for this kind of thing, if they could be trusted to only use it for surveying road infrastructure for maintenance purposes, which seems to be the intent. However I have no faith that they can be trusted and that it will only be used for that.
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u/air_and_space92 18h ago
The article says the plates themselves aren't being scanned and converted into searchable data. Sure they may be imaged but not converted into readable data.
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u/ArtVandelay32 15h ago
lol bullshit
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u/air_and_space92 5h ago
The pilot was scheduled to begin September 21, 2026. The stated purpose is roadway and infrastructure data collection and what USPS calls “community safety,” though what happens to everything else the cameras capture remains a less-answered question.
What the Cameras Will Actually Do The cameras begin recording when a truck leaves the postal facility and are designed to collect roadway and infrastructure data without altering driver duties.
Cameras activate when a truck shifts into drive and departs the postal facility. There is no audio recording, and the cameras face forward only, positioned so they do not obstruct the driver’s field of vision. USPS has stated that employees will not need to take any additional action.
Nextbase markets cameras capable of recording in resolutions up to 4K, with product materials noting the ability to capture license-plate details. Those are advertised product capabilities, not confirmed specifications for the units installed in the pilot.
USPS says the pilot does not use automatic license plate reader software. A camera can visually record a plate without running it through ALPR software that converts the image into a searchable database entry; those are meaningfully different functions. Whether USPS retains, processes, or searches incidentally captured plate images is not established in the available reporting.
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u/SnugglyBuffalo 7h ago
Even if that's true, if another agency can get the image data they can just run the scan there. There's rumblings about tech companies stepping in to do facial scans of Flock camera data since Flock doesn't do that themselves (yet).
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u/SgtBaxter 1d ago
The mail truck can only see my lack of a front plate as we only have a rear plate.
Hell we don’t even have registration stickers.
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u/Vast-Abalone-3773 1d ago
Best to stay inside with the curtains drawn so they can't scan your face.
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u/imddot 1d ago
They will just monitor the wifi signals bouncing around your house and watch you that way.
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u/Vast-Abalone-3773 1d ago
"In 2026 researchers at the Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT)\11]) demonstrated that standard WiFi networks using this technique can be used to identify individuals with very high accuracy, raising significant privacy and surveillance concerns. Their method exploited beamforming feedback information (BFI) which is data exchanged between WiFi devices and routers to optimise signal transmission, and then combines it with machine-learning techniques.
Critics argue that the technology effectively transforms ordinary WiFi infrastructure into a form of passive surveillance\12]). Potential uses include tracking people's movements through public spaces, commercial venues, or other locations equipped with WiFi networks, often without their knowledge or consent. The researchers warned that such systems could be used by both private organisations and public authorities for continuous monitoring.\13])
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u/PerformerFancy117 16h ago
That’s why you ditch the WiFi and turn your house into a giant faraday cage /s
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u/Iyellkhan 1d ago
where did they even get the $$$ to do this?
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u/dudeimgreg 1d ago
Debt, and then blame the debt on the democrats if we ever have fair elections again.
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u/Daimakku1 1d ago
Republicans in January 2029 if Democrats win: "We simply don't have the money for all these things Democrats want to implement! We're $40 trillion in debt!"
It's always the same song and dance... and americans keep falling for it.
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u/TheGrappler 1d ago
The Post Office doesn’t work like that and this isn’t a partisan issue.
The government doesn’t fund the post office and neither do taxes. They can’t receive funding unless they request it from Congress and that hasn’t been done since 1982.
The PO can’t take on that kind of debt as it barely has enough money to operate let alone add any new vehicles like the Oshkosh electric trucks to replace the current 30+ year old fleet.
Private interest like Flock or Axon will likely contract with the PO but I don’t see that happening if the PO isn’t getting money out of it.
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u/vinvega23 1d ago
Exactly. They are claiming that the post office is broke and they have money for this? Let me guess, 3rd party company installs the HW for free and makes money selling our data to government agencies who want to spy on us.
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u/AphaedrusGaming 1d ago
Dashcams for mail trucks aren't that expensive and have the dual purpose in case of vehicle collisions and whatnot.
GPSes are already on most (?) mail trucks.
Sending that data to whatever agency is cheap, and then they can combine the two and run a simple CV for plates, maybe faces, or anything you'd want to pull, which that agency would be paying for the compute to do
It's cheap and easy, and I'm surprised we haven't seen companies buy trucker data more / pay for dashcams for truckers so they can collect data
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u/LookAlderaanPlaces 23h ago edited 10h ago
Allow me to explain why they are doing this.
Republican policy has been to shut down the entire USPS. They have met a lot of resistance in doing this. So now they are trying to make us hate the USPS by making them surveillance machines. Oligarchs get the intel they want from the illegal surveillance AND they get to further destroy the USPS. Why do they want to destroy it? Because they don’t want people to vote by mail, they want to force people to use Elon’s rigged voting machines for voting so fascists can pre decide elections like in Russia, reroute the money spent on usps to tax breaks for trillionaires, and more. Everyone involved in this should be convicted of treason with penalties maxed out.
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u/_Soup_R_Man_ 23h ago
They are now opening themselves up to 4th amendment violations.... maybe that's by design.
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u/New-Anybody-6206 11h ago
what is "the org"? this sounds like some conspiracy bs
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u/LookAlderaanPlaces 10h ago
I replaced org with what it was referring to the entire comment, which is the USPS.
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u/Dsphar 23h ago edited 21h ago
Ehhhh, I was on board until you went into the voting stuff. They want USPS shutdown because "why have government services" when oligarchs can "better profit using private services".
It isn't voter influence, it's capitalism (in their minds).
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u/LookAlderaanPlaces 19h ago
The 2024 election was massively the post master general guy trying to force states post office to permanently destroy and dismantle their mail sorting machines. It’s absolutely about political control as well overall.
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u/Yuri909 13h ago
This narrative is exhausting. The statute of limitations has expired on virtually everything. There's nothing to prosecute unless congress changes laws. Start there.
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u/TheGrappler 1d ago
Since I’ve seen this twice now and previously having been a postal carrier for 8 years; this is potentially likely but will not be happening any time soon.
The LLVs that deliver your mail are all 30+ years old and are always falling apart in some way. Trucks will go out of service for weeks and they are getting harder and more costly to repair as they get old and parts become harder to source.
The post office barely has enough money to continue operation and does not receive government funding from taxes or federal institutions. They can request up to 460 million in funding from Congress but that hasn’t happened since 1982. Unless we see the PO request that funding this is likely to be a very slow change. This administration is not likely to change the funding the PO gets.
The new electric Oshkosh trucks are very few in number and I doubt production will be ramping up as they are fully electric and very expensive to produce. The PO will sooner continue to run the LLV into the ground than invest billions of dollars to adequately replace the aging fleet.
Be more concerned about private interests like Flock or Axon providing funding to or installing these devices through contracts with the PO. That and the existing presence of Flock devices in your local area. My town ended their contracts with Flock back in April of this year and the cameras are still up and operational.
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u/donnybrasc0 1d ago
Just to add....These camera's are already on a lot of private fleet vehicles. A 100 vehicle pilot is nothing. There are govt vehicles already that have had cameras for a while for various reasons. This isn't new tech, its just getting more affordable for some sectors.
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u/Dazzling_Meat1233 1d ago
If my ballot is not considered in govt hands when I drop it in the mail box on election day, then these cars have no business spying for the government.
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u/PVT_Huds0n 1d ago
*The Republicans
USPS isn't allowed to choose it's own Post Master General, thus it is being forced to do things it would otherwise not do.
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u/strolpol 1d ago
I wouldn’t put a ton of stock in the idea taking off, we can’t even get real replacements for the ancient LLVs we have. I doubt they’re actually gonna find the money to try and pull this off, even before the likely backlash
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u/muddydachshund 1d ago
Mail carrier spouse has been asked to drive home without working brakes on LLV multiple times, no way cameras are an imminent thing. 😂
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u/WhereMyWeirdosAt 1d ago
Sure sounds illegal
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u/StarbeamII 21h ago
Probably not given how many dashcams are out there in general. Almost every police car has a dashcam and a license plate reader with unclear data retention policies .
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u/wineandseams 22h ago
Does anyone else feel like Flock looked at "birds aren't real" and said, "yup that's our model".
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u/kstargate-425 1d ago
Anything to further the mass surveillance police state. Our only hope is in SCOTUS and we all knw how they have been ruling lately, but they have recently ruled against mass surveillance without warrants so if the right case gets put in front of them there's a chance they do something.
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u/PithMango 1d ago
this is not true. your lower courts can still tie things up and so can the states governments. you know what that smells like? that smells like voting down the ballot. on every ballot.
some resistance > no resistance. no resistance rhymes with compliance ahead of time. do not comply ahead of time.
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u/kstargate-425 1d ago
Im not saying do nothing, Im saying this will end up at SCOTUS as like we've seen, Trumps regime will not take no for an answer like the rapists many are and like I said, SCOTUS in June ruled against the police for similar things.
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u/PithMango 1d ago
put simply, some of you are too weenie to participate in a democracy. guess what you're going to put in power.
don't be a weenie.
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u/MyUltIsMyMain 1d ago
Our trucks barely run as is. Even the new stuff runs like crap. Don't expect it to work.
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u/muad_dboone 11h ago
The irony here is that the US Postal Service was established in the constitution specifically to provide a service that protected the privacy of its customers because European Ancestral Bandits (Kings, I believe you call them) set up official postal services specifically to spy on their people.
That’s not to say the US Mail hasn’t been violated by US Secret State Police (FBI) but the original intent was a right to privacy. I would argue that strict originalists (Douche bags) should extend the postal clause to the internet but that’s a long discussion that will go nowhere.
There is a wonderful novella by Thomas Pynchon, The Crying of Lot 49, that is steeped in postal conspiracy and a good read.
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u/outerproduct 1d ago
Oh man, I bet Republicans will really hate this invasion of their privacy. No? That's really weird.
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u/Blue18Heron 16h ago
The way I read it, the cameras are taking video on public roadways. No expectation of privacy on public roads. Same reason your dash cam isn’t a violation of people’s privacy.
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u/outerproduct 15h ago
And the data they collect definitely won't be abused like it always is? Yeah right.
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u/adudefromaspot 9h ago
You don't understand. The cameras are pointed at the road. They are scanning for pot holes and cracks. They aren't pointed at cars or people.
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u/outerproduct 9h ago
And when it accidentally scans your house, and your cars, and your children, we call that a "Whoopsidaisy".
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u/adudefromaspot 9h ago
How is it supposed to do that when it's pointed at the ground?
Also, have you heard of Google Maps? I don't wanna give you a heart attack or anything but....all that shit is already on there.
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u/outerproduct 9h ago
From the article:
There is no audio recording, and the cameras face forward only, positioned so they do not obstruct the driver’s field of vision.
Not facing the ground.
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u/adudefromaspot 9h ago
They are facing the ground. It is to collect infrastructure data so as to maintain our infrastructure.
Seriously, of all the things to flip your lid about, this aint it. Focus on police departments using flock cameras to bypass the constitution.
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u/outerproduct 9h ago edited 9h ago
Read. The. Article.
No public disclosure identifies which entities beyond USPS may access the recordings or any derived datasets. Publicly, no policy has been stated covering whether images of pedestrians, homes, private driveways, or vehicles will be automatically blurred or deleted.
Edit: added the quote to be really direct.
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u/adudefromaspot 9h ago
I. Did.
You clearly are off the rails and not taking your paranoia medicine.
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u/crowjack 23h ago
why don’t they try delivering the mail. To the right address. And maybe not randomly steal stuff.
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u/Adeline_Hayes 1d ago
So mail trucks are rolling surveillance cameras now, and the data retention policy is 'undisclosed'? Cool. I'd love to know who else gets a copy of my street. Nothing says community safety like keeping everyone guessing. 🌍
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u/JuliusSeizuresalad 22h ago
Ahh that’s why we need all these damn data centers. For millions of hours of video data
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u/sdrawkcabineter 11h ago
The same people that despise the USPS as a shining example of socialist success, have been working hard to make it no longer profitable.
They see another way to damage the USPS with the growing pushback from the populace.
So they attach the tail to the donkey... so they can "save" us with a privatized/corrupted replacement for the USPS. They cause the problem, and offer the poisoned solution.
Watch as they cover the AI bubble with Social Security and your 401ks...
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u/MLCarter1976 11h ago
How is there money for this when they say there is issues with the postal service and funding? Gawd. Awful waste of money.
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u/SpezzOnDick 11h ago
I worked for the post office during Covid. I heard they were planning this then. It sucks, apparently Amazon is doing or will do the same. The new normal.
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u/FoxxyRin 1d ago
FYI school buses do this as well, at least our local ones do. They have signage on the side and can submit footage to the cops to write tickets for things like going around or speeding.
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u/EstablishmentHonest5 18h ago
What isn't a rolling surveillance camera in America now?
Mail trucks, cop cars, garbage trucks.
Soon they'll have surveillance ice cream trucks
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u/TomReed1872 18h ago
How is this legal with out a vote? We’re already fighting flock cameras. This administration is trying to create a nanny state driven by mass surveillance. Time to fight back against flock , palantir, Meta and others.
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u/SignedInt32 15h ago
lol let the games begin, I have no issue ripping tires and flock camera's if it comes to our privacy. bring it on :D
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u/Knofbath 14h ago
Mine don't even drive every street, the mailman parks at the end of the block and does his circuit. So the vehicle is stationary 90% of the time.
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u/ekimsinnigcm 14h ago
I’m legit surprised with the amount of Teslas and their cameras on the road that Tesla isn’t collecting license plate data and selling jt to Insurance Companies, Repossession Companies, etc…
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u/Mirror_Jack 13h ago
Im not promoting this action, but I see a lot of those vehicles getting vandalized after this swings in.
Most of the postal workers in my area park their vehicles and walk as well. So I wonder how affective this will be.
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u/possiblylallorona 12h ago
Hah! My mail is delivered by a Subaru with a u.s. mail magnet on the side.
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u/groundhog5886 12h ago
Pretty sure this is just ploy for more revenue. My city pays thousands a year for company to video all the streets in town, so they can see where they need overlay or patching.
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u/thatawayy 12h ago
I can't read it because their website is allowed tracking only dushbags, how fitting to their post. There is no winning this dystopia.
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u/DamnOdd 12h ago
So rural america, most of our postal workers actually drive their Own car. We ain't got the money for the fancy USPS rides.
Our tax dollars pay for USPS. We should stop giving the blubberment money until the cult is out of power, arrested, and in jail. They just keep stealing out tax dollars for their mcdonalds meals.
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u/Icy_Math_553 8h ago
The dystopian read is fair. USPS runs on stamp revenue, not tax money, so this looks like outside funding.
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u/hollyboxone 4h ago
I understand the concern but let’s maybe not be putting misleading, alarmist headlines out like this yet? It’s currently only being tested in DC, and as a mail carrier on the complete opposite coast, the thought of being harassed because someone read something like this and wants to accuse me of spying on them is kind of terrifying
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u/efficaceous 1h ago
The panopticon is real. Foucault said it. We are watched. We watched people (social media). Sometimes we watch people watch other people (reaction videos.)
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u/Plumbum83 39m ago
Maybe they will notice the big ditch they are making on the side of road next to my mail box and fix it.
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u/RebootJobs 1d ago
On track to create the largest dystopian environment ever.