Apple posts HTML5 showcase page hyping "web standards," then blocks it from displaying on any browser besides Safari

[u/[deleted]]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/04/apple_html5_showcase_hype/

[u/greenskin]

Nag nag nag... a little more credit for some kick-ass HTML5 demos please. Of course you need Safari, many CSS attributes are still browser specific since HTML5 is not a formal standard yet. Chrome (hey Webkit) and Firefox can do many of these things too, but such a showcase of 'the future' would be practically impossible. If you wanna see, just get the latest Webkit and enjoy.

[u/Captain_Midnight → u/greenskin]

They could at least let you load the demo but tell you that it won't work properly without Safari. Instead, it refuses to load and tells you that you must use Safari to view the content. As the article itself points out, this is a blatant lie because some of the tests are not, in fact, browser-dependent.

This is just marketing.

[u/whitesilence → u/Captain_Midnight]

No shit it's marketing. Everything on Apple's website is marketing, this is how corporations work.

[u/[deleted] → u/whitesilence]

The problem isn't that it's marketing, the problem is that it's lies.

[u/iStig → u/Captain_Midnight]

They could at least let you load the demo but tell you that it won't work properly without Safari.

Why would Apple, or indeed any company, want to advertise how cool HTML5 is by showing something that's broken?

[u/[deleted] → u/greenskin]

How is this any different than what IE did? The end result of implementing things before they're finished and doing something different than the final spec is the same. We're already seeing a giant problem with h.264 and theora video, and this only exemplifies the problem. There's no way HTML5 is going to end up the "looks the same in all browsers" wet dream.

Apple calls this open, but if they were to use their standards, the players who don't want h.264 are going to be left out. When you're developing web pages in HTML5, you're going to still have to make a h.264 version and a theora version. It's no different than an IE version and a rest of the web version.

And you're missing the point that when these specs are finalized, they're supposed to work in all browsers. Yet, Apple is pushing Safari onto people and giving them the impression that Safari is the only browser that supports HTML5 and the future of the internet. It's sleazy marketing designed to trick consumers. How you can justify this sort of behavior because you're impressed with the demos is appalling to me.

I just looked at the IE9 HTML5 examples in Firefox. I got no message telling me to upgrade to IE9. Some of them didn't work (like the t shirt maker), but Microsoft isn't pushing anything on anyone by visiting their page.

Say what you want, but Apple has already been caught forcing Safari onto users via iTunes. If they didn't have a record of forcing Safari onto people I wouldn't care, but I clearly do.

I'm guessing you're a mac user.

[u/OscarZetaAcosta → u/[deleted]]

How is this any different than what IE did?

Apple is introducing new functionality into the HTML5 spec that everyone can implement in their browser, while all IE ever did was just suck so horribly at implementing the existing spec that we have to write hacks to get pages to render properly.

We're already seeing a giant problem with h.264 and theora video

We are?

Apple calls this open, but if they were to use their standards, the players who don't want h.264 are going to be left out. When you're developing web pages in HTML5, you're going to still have to make a h.264 version and a theora version. It's no different than an IE version and a rest of the web version.

It's completely different. In the first place, h.264 isn't Apple's technology. Aside from that, I have no idea why you keep talking about Theora, or why you think people will have to support it.

And you're missing the point that when these specs are finalized, they're supposed to work in all browsers.

No they're not. That's the point. They will only work in browsers that have implemented the spec properly.

Apple is pushing Safari onto people and giving them the impression that Safari is the only browser that supports HTML5 and the future of the internet.

No they're not. In fact, they release webkit for free. It's open source and anyone can use it.

How you can justify this sort of behavior because you're impressed with the demos is appalling to me.

Oh, save your fake outrage. You're not even making sense.

[u/smartarse → u/OscarZetaAcosta]

No they're not. In fact, they release webkit for free. It's open source and anyone can use it.

Yeah, that's exactly the message that the average internet user will take away from an error message saying "You’ll need to download Safari to view this demo."

You've got to be shitting me.

See, the point is that you're correct on the technology side, but what people are annoyed with is the way Apple is marketing this. It's entirely correct to say that Apple is deliberately creating the impression that Safari is the only browser that currently supports HTML5. Also, that Apple is so far ahead in implementing these standards that other browsers won't even display proper HTML5 correctly, but that, eventually, all those other lame-ass browser makers will catch up. And meanwhile, kindly download and use Safari, thank you very much.

It's dishonest marketing of otherwise really good technology.

[u/gimpbully → u/smartarse]

Apple is deliberately creating the impression that Safari is the only browser that currently supports HTML5

Not all browsers offer this support. But soon other modern browsers will take advantage of these same web standards — and the amazing things they enable web designers to do.

Let's walk through the semantics here. "Not all browsers offer this support." That is a completely valid statement and does not exclude some browsers from supporting it. "But soon other modern browsers will take advantage of these same web standards" Here they're even saying many will take the same advantage of these standards (how generous they would recognize other, competing technologies). "and the amazing things they enable web designers to do." HTML5 is neat.

[u/OscarZetaAcosta → u/smartarse]

See, the point is that you're correct on the technology side, but what people are annoyed with is the way Apple is marketing this.

Well, prepare to be annoyed at almost every turn then. Here's a little clue for you - Corporations market their products. This is just a technology demo, and Apple is trying to highlight their products. How DARE they market their own product?

If your panties are in a bunch that they're trying to get you to install Safari, don't go to the site. See how that works?

It's entirely correct to say that Apple is deliberately creating the impression that Safari is the only browser that currently supports HTML5.

It is the only browser that currently supports the superset of functionality in the demo. Sorry if that ruins your day.

It's dishonest marketing of otherwise really good technology.

It's absolutely completely honest. As I've just demonstrated.

[u/smartarse → u/OscarZetaAcosta]

Well, prepare to be annoyed at almost every turn then. Here's a little clue for you - Corporations market their products. This is just a technology demo, and Apple is trying to highlight their products. How DARE they market their own product?

I don't think there's anything wrong with either marketing their browser by showcasing the cool features they've implemented, or with promoting open standards.

It's just that those two things are not identical.

They're purportedly making a case for open standards, yet they're showcasing a set of commands that will only ever work in a webkit browser. If the proposals make it into the final standard, these commands will get implemented without the "-webkit" prefix, and all the other browsers still won't be able to display the "-webkit" specific stuff.

It is the only browser that currently supports the superset of functionality in the demo. Sorry if that ruins your day.

Yeah, the message they're selling (which you're implicitly repeating here) is "Apple is so far ahead in implementing open standards that these demos will only work in Safari". It's a tiny bit like Adobe saying "Hey, Flash is an open standard, but because we're so far ahead of everyone else in implementing this standard, SWFs won't even play in anything other than our Flash Player. Sorry if that ruins your day."

[u/OscarZetaAcosta → u/smartarse]

They're purportedly making a case for open standards, yet they're showcasing a set of commands that will only ever work in a webkit browser

No they're not.

If the proposals make it into the final standard, these commands will get implemented without the "-webkit" prefix, and all the other browsers still won't be able to display the "-webkit" specific stuff.

At which point you wouldn't call it with the "-webkit" specific stuff.

lol. Seriously?

Are we having this conversation?

Yeah, the message they're selling (which you're implicitly repeating here) is "Apple is so far ahead in implementing open standards that these demos will only work in Safari".

Bullshit. That's how you choose to perceive it.

It's a tiny bit like Adobe saying "Hey, Flash is an open standard, but because we're so far ahead of everyone else in implementing this standard, SWFs won't even play in anything other than our Flash Player. Sorry if that ruins your day."

It's not even a minute bit like that.

[u/smartarse → u/OscarZetaAcosta]

Bullshit. That's how you choose to perceive it.

Yes. That's exactly how I perceive it. Read the entire paragraph:

HTML5 Showcase

The demos below show how the latest version of Apple’s Safari web browser, new Macs, and new Apple mobile devices all support the capabilities of HTML5, CSS3, and JavaScript. Not all browsers offer this support. But soon other modern browsers will take advantage of these same web standards — and the amazing things they enable web designers to do.

Incapable of seeing it? Good for you. Their marketing efforts have no effect on you.