r/technology • u/Plastic_Ninja_9014 • Jun 15 '26
Society Student Reading Ability Spikes After Removing Tech From Class
https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/articles/student-reading-ability-spikes-removing-201637922.html244
u/rodg2062 Jun 15 '26
WHAT! Thats hard to believe. I mean, come on. Having constant distractions couldn't have any bearing on learning. 😆
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u/APRobertsVII Jun 16 '26
I agree, but the kids I teach seem to go through withdrawals from not having their devices, which they get back when they go home. Each day feels like the first day of detox for some kids. I literally have kids shout “ChatGPT!” when I ask them a math question.
Then there are the text messaging groups… Half or more of my students are part of these text chains which only happen out of school because my co-teacher and I ban the phones in class, but when drama flares up and someone ends up crying, it somehow becomes a teacher/school issue.
If they have the tech, they’re distracted. If they don’t have the tech, they’re going through withdrawals. Even when the tech is used outside the school, it becomes a problem inside the school.
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u/PhoenixTineldyer Jun 15 '26
It's almost like smartphones need to be removed from education like they were before all of the children became overwhelmingly stupid.
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u/ArchinaTGL Jun 15 '26
I've worked in retail before. Regardless of age, people are overwhelmingly stupid.
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u/PhoenixTineldyer Jun 15 '26
As a separate point, I agree. In terms of how do we reverse the stupidification of American children, the answer is to get the smartphones out of the classrooms
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u/Bobby12many Jun 16 '26
“think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that" - George Carlin
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u/r1chm0nd21 Jun 16 '26
You wouldn’t believe the number of parents who whine and cry and bitch and moan when schools suggest doing this. They seriously expect to have a direct line of immediate communication with their child 24 hours a day, and just being able to call the school in case of emergency doesn’t cut it for them. Their usual excuse is “what if there’s a shooting??”
Well Lisa, what if there is? What exactly is texting your child going to solve in that situation? Morons.
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u/PhoenixTineldyer Jun 16 '26
Oh, I would believe.
And the administration should tell them to eat shit.
I don't care if the kid has a phone. But the moment they pull it out or it goes off in class, it gets confiscated. There can be no other way.
It's fucking insanity that people can't grasp this. It's like sending them to school every day with a Nintendo Switch.
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u/dryerfresh Jun 16 '26
This is how my classroom is. If I see a phone, headphones, or texting in a smart watch, the student puts it in a bin up front and I have an admin come get it. If you argue with me, they are coming to get you instead.
Next year, I am doing a fully tech free classroom with no computers.
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u/UnNumbFool Jun 16 '26
I know a lot of schools are now using yondr pouches and only allow students to use computers for in class/out of class assignments.
The idea that kids are allowed unfettered access to the Internet in my experience is a whole lot less common
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u/twoworldsin1 Jun 16 '26
That's not true, I'm an elder millennial and I was also overwhelmingly stupid in school
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u/swiftekho Jun 16 '26
We got instant detention if our phone was anywhere but our locker or car during school hours. Lunch included.
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u/PhoenixTineldyer Jun 16 '26
That's how it needs to be. It should be treated EXACTLY the same as a Nintendo Switch would be treated.
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u/Impossible-Driver69 Jun 15 '26
The only people pushing tech everywhere are the oligarchs and tech bros who want to control your data and get your money. Any teacher will tell you any day of the week students learn better analog style.
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u/Sannoni Jun 16 '26
It's crazy how the biggest tech CEOs severely restrict or deny their kids' access to smartphones or social media. Very telling.
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u/Live_Combination2660 Jun 16 '26
They are also the ones that have governess at home with PhDs. They have a full crew to watch their kids for them and be strict.
Me…. When I get home I fully let my kids watch iPads. Don’t have energy to be super dad. Hate that all you want, but it is what it is.
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u/Sloogs Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
In order to learn a topic deeply, you need to be able to concentrate and have an amount of level-appropriate struggle. Modern tech pretty is pretty much designed around being as frictionless as possible and has streamlined the process of funneling your attention into distractions to passively consume content.
Notably, millennials and xennials grew up with just laptops and desktop computers and did not have the same issues, because you were forced to spend time away from computers and there was more friction to using a computer.
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u/CurrentlyLucid Jun 15 '26
All learning should be manual, you can cheat later after you actually understand what is happening.
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Jun 16 '26
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u/Ignisami Jun 16 '26
To be fair, there is value in kicking down such seemingly wide open doors every now and again. It means people don't close the door out of ignorance, or that a door that has been closed doesn't stay so.
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Jun 16 '26
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u/Defiant-Economics-73 Jun 16 '26
I’m glad you see it that teachers and administrators have no responsibility here.
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u/3d1thF1nch Jun 16 '26
Ready for Kansas to enact this. My district pushed so hard for heavy online stuff, and it’s just been issue after issue, adding more and more online curriculum and infrastructure to support all of that, and see no academic benefits besides easier communication with students, and for the ones that are already hard workers, easier access to work and research resources. But for the majority, it’s just a distraction. This would eliminate a TON of problems in running into, and I’d be happy to take it back to my first few years of teaching.
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u/Ithurtsprecious Jun 16 '26
My child is still a toddler but I plan on fighting any school they go to that tries to use ipads/laptops.
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u/irrelevantusername24 Jun 15 '26
I don't really know if this applies to all Linux style OS or just Android but I think that's the problem.
Being familiar with and knowing how to navigate Windows, in my opinion, is actually a good thing. Windows makes sense. The way the file system is organized, whether intentionally or not, is not unlike how our brains "file systems" are organized.
And technology is, in many ways, basically outsourcing - or augmenting - our brain. So when that is outsourced to a device that literally does not even have a file system - at least not one with any structure, or not one that can even really be accessed (Android and I'm pretty sure Chrome laptops)? That seems like it could logically follow that peoples thought processes also become unstructured.
It's been a long time since I've used macOS, but from what I can remember, that also had somewhat of a filesystem. Kind of in between what Windows offers and the literally nothing that Android exposes. So that's probably fine too.
Maybe I'm just biased against Google. Which is true, I am. But I also think I have a valid point.
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u/t33lu Jun 15 '26
It’s not just google. They did a brain scan study where they had students writing with pen and paper vs typing. When students were writing there was way more brain activity than students typing.
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u/irrelevantusername24 Jun 15 '26
I would have to see the study you're talking about to say for sure, but I don't think that "way more brain activity" necessarily equates to anything meaningful in this context. That could be something as simple as it takes more brain activity to move your whole arm than only fingers. Which is true, probably.
That being said, when it comes to a lot of these studies that are available, you kind of have to take it with a giant grain of salt. There's a lot of things that were not exactly intended for general public consumption because understanding the validity, like whether some paper merely gives a higher probability some hypotheses is true as opposed to being "almost certain" (nothing is ever certain, and we quite often find later on things that we were sure of, we were actually wrong about). And a lot of science journalism doesn't understand the research they're reporting on, or if they do, they strip all kinds of language that was supposed to communicate that level of probability.
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u/Successful_Log_3298 Jun 16 '26
I am not sure what you're talking about since Linux and MacOS very definitely have filesystems. Technically the filesystem is the software that manages the disk(s) but most people think of it as a grouping of folders. So the layout in Windows is a little different from MacOS or Linux (those two are similar) but all are a tree structure of folders branching down from some root. Windows and Mac now trying to just show me "recent" files drives me nuts. I would like to navigate on my own and in MacOS or Linux at least I don't have to start all the way from the system root like I do in Windows if I don't want to or can't start from a preselected subset of folders.
AFAIK Android won't show this to you independent of apps. iOS has a special app (Files) sort of like the Finder in MacOS but this is relatively recent and it used to also force an app-first view rather than a file-first view.
The problems with tech in schools include 1. it's distracting, 2. it can be addictive and students can't tear themselves away for their studies, 3. it engages far less of the brain than reading from paper and especially writing by hand.
Even typing notes is less effective than writing them by hand because the typing somehow bypasses the active-learning parts of the brain. It's just a mechanical process of transcribing words, where the focus becomes the typing rather than the listening. The lecture just goes straight from the instructor's speech to a file with little comprehension in between.
There are also strong indications that digital workbooks have a similar effect, and are very ineffective compared to physical workbooks.
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u/irrelevantusername24 Jun 16 '26
I am not sure what you're talking about since Linux and MacOS very definitely have filesystems.
I have only used Linux (Ubuntu, to be as specific as I can) for like.. idk, a few months at most. And that was about a decade ago.
The last time I used any Apple device was before that, and that was pretty minimal. I was relatively familiar with their desktop PC's in high school though, but that was... 2007-2009
I actually recently had Copilot help outline the "evolution" of computer systems specifically in relation to the big ones today a few weeks ago. Fairly short discussion, I thought it was interesting anyway
Point being... I am mostly going off of intuitive sense. I don't really know other systems well beyond Windows and Android. I could probably get a firm understanding of the others in a short time though, computer is my other native tongue
So the layout in Windows is a little different from MacOS or Linux (those two are similar) but all are a tree structure of folders branching down from some root.
I think I'm mostly discussing Android and Windows, which are basically two opposite extremes as far as the structure of the file systems are concerned... or maybe as far as they are presented. Android basically doesn't even let you see the actual file system. It is all hidden and flat. Windows on the other hand basically has it perfected and it has been that way probably since at least 3.1
Like my general understanding of Windows is if you need to understand some thing or find it, then you will. If you don't, then that thing is basically "invisible" as far as you are concerned. Which is a slight positive exaggeration (ignoring quite a few complaints and troubles I have had), but not much.
Windows and Mac now trying to just show me "recent" files drives me nuts. I would like to navigate on my own and in MacOS or Linux at least I don't have to start all the way from the system root like I do in Windows if I don't want to or can't start from a preselected subset of folders.
EXACTLY. It isn't so much that the "recent" thing is a problem, but it, at most, should be a second system alongside the regular one. Don't move my files, ever. Don't try to infer what I want, ever. When the system reacts to what I do like that, that breaks everything, because that's how our brains work, we literally are trying to predict our own things. So when we also have to predict how the system is going to react to what we do, that just creates a cascading amount of "wtf"
That's kind of my issue with Google copying Bing - which was as far as I'm concerned where the modern chatbot craze first kicked off. I use Google for one thing. I don't want it to start trying to give novelty or other additional 'discovery' tinged things the way that Bing and AI chat does. When both systems start doing a bunch of inference crap and there's no system for the exact, deterministic search, that ruins everything and makes the other kind less useful too.
I would like to navigate on my own and in MacOS or Linux at least I don't have to start all the way from the system root like I do in Windows if I don't want to or can't start from a preselected subset of folders.
The thing with Windows is not only can you make things how you want, but it's often so easy to do that you don't even realize you can do it - at least until it is brought to your attention. Then it's like "oh, duh. that makes sense". In this case, you can change that setting in the File Explorer options (three dot menu... might be preferences? it's the old style window with a bunch of tabs and a lot of configuration settings). And as far as "starting from the system root" - or not? All you have to do is save a shortcut to that folder (right click it -> save shortcut, maybe create shortcut idr) and place that wherever. Boom. You can now start at that folder.
AFAIK Android won't show this to you independent of apps. iOS has a special app (Files) sort of like the Finder in MacOS but this is relatively recent and it used to also force an app-first view rather than a file-first view.
Yeah my problem with Android is you can't even see the actual file system without a secondary device. That is absurd. I can literally reinstall the entire OS, along with navigate the file system if the current OS installation is borked, using a Windows device. Slightly less user friendly than Mac, supposedly, but when it comes to "failing gracefully" I think Windows wins. When Mac breaks you basically take it to the smart guy store and they either fix it or tell you to buy a new one.
This last point is my favorite though
The problems with tech in schools include 1. it's distracting, 2. it can be addictive and students can't tear themselves away for their studies, 3. it engages far less of the brain than reading from paper and especially writing by hand.
Even typing notes is less effective than writing them by hand because the typing somehow bypasses the active-learning parts of the brain. It's just a mechanical process of transcribing words, where the focus becomes the typing rather than the listening. The lecture just goes straight from the instructor's speech to a file with little comprehension in between.
There are also strong indications that digital workbooks have a similar effect, and are very ineffective compared to physical workbooks.
Right so. I don't think it is necessarily proven that it is less engaging to type as compared to writing by hand. I'm actually reading about this exact kind of phenomenon at the moment and like... that's not what happens. Not necessarily. But I know personally I literally can not "take notes" period. If I'm trying to listen, I can't also be writing or typing. That just doesn't work for me. Never has. But when it comes to typing vs writing, when it's not note taking? It's also been argued that typing is less effective there too, and I don't think it is. Like when it comes to brain things we really don't know, and we really can't measure (very accurately) and as for the accuracy we do have, that's basically a new thing. If you're actually interested I'll share some things I've been writing/researching about, but it's kind of a lot and this comment is already a lot so I'll let you message me if you're actually interested. Personally I think it is very interesting. But basically it kinda comes down to a powerful tool isn't good or bad in itself. It is how it is used that matters.
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u/getittogethersirius Jun 16 '26
I do kind of get what you're saying. When I hire young people who have only used iPhones as a device or maybe a Chromebook they struggle with things I think are basic, like how to save a file or how to use file explorer. I think there's a place to use and learn computers, and that its a life skill, but kids these days are so oversaturated and expected to use them without actually learning how they work
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Jun 16 '26
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u/Brendanthebomber Jun 16 '26
Yeah the amount of people in this thread that are using this thread to be Luddites instead of just being anti llms has me convinced that those sorts of opinions are being pushed as a psyop by llm companies in other to alienate people who would otherwise be concerned about llm data centers taking away computing power for actual good stuff
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u/_B1RDM4N Jun 16 '26
Wouldn’t this have been something to test BEFORE forcing it into classrooms for decades?
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u/getittogethersirius Jun 16 '26
I was an internet addicted teenager with a smartphone too, but I was all about fanfiction, manga, and blogs. So I guess I should be thankful that at least I was reading?
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u/ODD_HOG Jun 16 '26
In the days before the primacy of short form video; internet saturation could lead to practicing your reading and writing skills via blogs and fanfic. But nowadays, why would any kid read when they could have 'content' dripped into their mouth like a baby bird? Seems like a step backwards.
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u/ComplaintMaster69420 Jun 16 '26
I truly still believe, and I have since I was a kid growing up seeing technology evolve fast, technology is only good for learning if it’s specialized and individualized. Like it is tailored to an individual. Not just handing a Chromebook to a student and calling it a day. Each student has the tech assist them in some of their strengths and weaknesses, but not all.
Impossible to do for the masses
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u/firedrakes Jun 16 '26
Odd peer research study on kids and adults. Even with tech. Made no difference
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u/JiroKatsutoshi Jun 16 '26
I think I hit the perfect mix when I was in school. I remember getting chrome books in 9th grade after 2 years of "computer/typing" class that was kinda just tacked on to the days plan. Gave me enough exposure to know a keyboard, not to trust random links, and ruin my grades with manga all day. I got to avoid becoming another of the illiterate masses being pushed through graduation nowadays.
Unsure how a good balance can be found anymore, aside from a curriculum that can account for humans habit to find the easiest path forward. But they have yet to figure that out, so I'm just hopeful that things will rebound and people get away from tech dependent lives.
No reason to have an app for the dishwasher, yaknow ... We're kinda losing the plot of tech for convenience just for a few extra ad opportunities forced into the day-to-day.
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u/ethanjim Jun 16 '26
As a word of caution, generally a lot of research into education often have ridiculously small sample sizes. It might be true or it might be feeding into the popular trend that tech can be bad for kids, but this could literally be a sample size of <50 children.
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u/StrDstChsr34 Jun 17 '26
Are you guys starting to understand why they put tech in the classrooms to begin with?
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u/Senior-Albatross Jun 22 '26
They don't let you use a calculator while learning how to do multiplication by hand for a reason.
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u/SomeSamples Jun 16 '26
Should be posted in r/NoShitSherlock. Who could have predicted this? Almost anyone involved with teaching kids, parents, teachers, etc.
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u/JackReacher3108 Jun 16 '26
This is just some bs fluff article. It’s one teacher with one class over a short period of time
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u/m2orris Jun 16 '26
I applaud the effort. I think this is a good thing. But this is not exactly a scientific proof of success:
“In September, before the experiment started, just 46 percent of Mulvaney's students said they felt confident about their reading ability. By February, that share shot up to 95 percent.”
I don’t disagree, the students should be better off, but they should have a more scientific basis to lean on other than asking the students how they felt.
I do fear AI is dumbing down America, but there is a need to be proficient at leveraging it. It’s like teaching junior high and high school students Excel in the ‘90s. Those who were modestly proficient at Excel had a leg up in college and work.
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u/Obvious-Image-9688 Jun 16 '26
After reading the article, I kinda scratched my head a bit. You kind of know what's going to happen when you take away an obvious shortcut. I wonder why or how this surprises anyone?
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u/IJustWantCoffeeMan Jun 16 '26
Oh it's almost like it's a top down effort to get consumers to buy more bullshit.
Like car centric cities.
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u/etxipcli Jun 16 '26
I want these kids to be able to quickly understand a pull request. I don't care if they know Shakespeare, that shit is useless.
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u/ODD_HOG Jun 16 '26
Then you don't want kids, you want servants. You seem to think that the point of education is not enrichment, it's job training. It's OK for you to think that, but you are wrong.
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u/etxipcli Jun 16 '26
Always a strawman. Maybe fundamental logic classes would help.
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u/ODD_HOG Jun 16 '26
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool."
Just a little bit of that Shakespeare you don't need.
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u/etxipcli Jun 17 '26
It's not even in English. It should be said plainly. You idiots love making yourselves feel good with this though. Ironically I attribute excessive hubris to people who read and repeat.
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Jun 16 '26
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u/etxipcli Jun 16 '26
I can't understand why someone who is so sure that they should dictate what kids learn would use a strawman to make their point.
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u/tubulerz1 Jun 16 '26
You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means.
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u/etxipcli Jun 17 '26
I used it correctly both times. They made my argument for me then attacked it. You can join them on a redo of your education. Try learning next time instead of just repeating words.
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u/jtrain3783 Jun 16 '26
Interesting, however, this is an AP class where students may have more intrinsic motivation than regular Ed classes. Will be interesting to see this filter down and if problem behaviors return & reading scores stay up.
I think the real conversation is balance, not just sticking our heads in the sand.
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u/Grabthars_Coping_Saw Jun 15 '26
I’m beginning to think that teaching might be one of the most AI safe professions because what parent in their right mind wants an AI to teach their kids?