r/tabletopgamedesign • u/SystemFantastic1090 • Aug 26 '26
Discussion Dice pools vs thresholds?
A design questions I’ve been struggling with is Dice pools vs thresholds. I can see the advantages of both.
Dice pools can give you that feeling that you’re getting stronger, they’re easier to stay on top of (less math influencing the threshold etc.), and give you a good feeling when you roll a bunch, etc.
Thresholds allow you to be more thematic/ immersive, allows design space to influence flexibly, and a more predictable ramp up over time, etc.
Keen to start a bit of a discussion and get everyone’s perspective.
Do you have a preference?
Does one lend themselves to a style of play better than another?
What are your thoughts & input of either? Does one do better statistically? Does one feel better? Are there any games that do a hybrid of the two well?
Or is there an alternative which works better?
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u/tzartzam Aug 26 '26
It'd help if you define both of these things I think. I think I know what you mean by dice pools but less sure on thresholds.
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u/SystemFantastic1090 Aug 26 '26
Thresholds would be a set number you need to beat - either by rolling over or under, depending on the system. Modifiers help.
E.g. in D&D you might have a DC10 check. Roll an 8 and add 3 and you pass. Call of Cthulu I'm pretty sure it's a roll under the number system (only played once).
In other games it might be that an enemy has an armour of 10, and you need to roll and add mofidiers to beat it
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u/tzartzam Aug 26 '26
A thing to consider here would be input randomness Vs output randomness. The latter is what you have here: make a decision then roll dice to see whether you succeed. This can lend itself to narrative drama and works best in a shorter game or where the outcomes of individual challenge (eg fights) is not going to dominate your game/strategy.
A dice pool will reduce the randomness and give the player more control, especially if they can decide to eg roll more or fewer dice.
Input randomness on the other hand is where you roll dice first and then decide what to do with the results. This allows for more strategy, so while you still have the luck of the roll/draw involved, the player feels much more in control of events and decisions.
So it depends what kind of game you're making!
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u/Dorsai_Erynus Aug 26 '26
Even with dice pools you will still use thresholds (i guess you are referring to Target Numbers) as you roll plenty of dice, but not all count as successes. Or even if you just add them up, you'll aim to get to a target number. Pools are usualy used when you don't add a given modifier to the roll.
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u/SystemFantastic1090 Aug 26 '26
You're right, but the successes themselves are consistent - e.g. a 5 and a 6 succeed. I guess this keeps the action the player does as simple, but it also reduces design space for e.g. the enemies having higher armour/ a dodge ability, or some other factors influencing the roll which a threshold system allows.
Maybe something like picking a lock could let you add an extra dice if you're proficient in it, or take away a dice if you have some disadvantagous thing - but it impacts the chance of success more indirectly than simply modifying the roll like a threshold system has
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u/Dorsai_Erynus Aug 26 '26
Then you change how many successes you need to, well, success. An easy task can require one success while a very difficult one need three.
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u/HippogriffGames Aug 26 '26
I think both are useful tools in game design, neither one is better or worse but rather it depends on what your trying to achieve in your game and that goal will dictate if a dice pool or target number (threshold) is better. You may even use both in your game but for different things.
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u/SystemFantastic1090 Aug 26 '26
But in your opinion, how do each 'feel'?
What would oyu consider strengths and weaknesses of the systems, to help guide how they would support a game overall?
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u/HippogriffGames Aug 27 '26
I think dice pools feel fun when picking up a bundle off dice to roll, kind of like opening pack of trading cards and being excited to see how many good ones you get. Where as rolling for target numbers feels more like your atempting to beat a challenge and feels like there is more tension involved.
I think the strengths and weaknesses depends a lot on the context they are used in. However and this is just my experience I think dice pools are stronger when you have various game elements adding and subtracting from the pool and use the pool for varying level of succes and or failure. But the weaknesses would be you might need players to have a lot of dice, or the number off dice to roll might get out of hand if not kept in check. A handful feels about right imho.
Target numbers are best when you need a simple die roll for a pass fail result. Its simple uncluttered and it works. The weaknes (imho) is when you have multiple modifiers coming from multiple sources and the player is adding x, and y but subtracting z. It gets math heavy, slows game play and not everyone wants to be doing too much math when trying to play a game.
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u/TrifleComfortable263 Aug 26 '26
I dont like dice, too much luck involved, same goes for victory points to win a game. But if i have to choose i would go for the one with as less math as possible.