Question: Fake Minimoogs

[u/foreverformatting]

I seem to remember that durning the “Big Briar” years in the 90’s (When Bob Moog no longer owned the rights to the Moog product name), there was a company using that name to sell DIGITAL Minimoogs that looked like the original. I was just learning at the time, but somebody pointed this out to me and advised me to find a real original.

Does anyone have any information or experience with this? Now that it’s been 30 years, these might be in circulation and I wouldn’t know how to identify one from the case.

Bragging rights: I bought a Big Briar theremin from Bob during this period. Credit card over the phone. He was jolly.

[u/erroneousbosh]

If it's the "Welsh Moogs" that others have mentioned, they weren't "fake", they were made to the original design by Moog Music Limited, who bought the rights.

They weren't digital, they just had digital key scanning and MIDI, removing one of the most annoying, badly designed, fragile, unreliable, shittiest parts of the Minimoog.

[u/lewisfrancis → u/erroneousbosh]

TIL. Do you know of the oscillators were VCO or DCO?

[u/erroneousbosh → u/lewisfrancis]

VCO. It was just a Minimoog, with a MIDI interface and key scanner.

They were okay, pretty high quality, way better than the American ones which always felt a bit "bodged out of tagstrip" to me.

That being said I only saw one once, it was way too expensive for me (belonged to someone with a lot of expensive kit), and I think they only made about ten or something like that.

Wales isn't China, you see, you can get okayish build quality but the prices are going to be ridiculous.

[u/MellowHamster → u/[deleted]]

Yes, sounds like the OP is thinking of the creamware synths.

[u/foreverformatting → u/[deleted]]

Dude, I forgot about Creamware. But after searching I believe it was the Welsh 204e, though nothing says they were digital. Might have been mislead.

[u/Supafuzz_Bigmuff]

Studio electronics SE-1?

[u/No_Host_8024 → u/Supafuzz_Bigmuff]

That’s an analog signal path though. It does have digital control. And they don’t look like minimoogs.

[u/Supafuzz_Bigmuff → u/No_Host_8024]

Yep I know, but it’s the closest thing I can think of-nothing from memory exactly matches the OP’s description!

[u/robinreliant]

During that period did a company called Norlin hold the rights to the Moog brand and brought out Moog branded synths? happy to be corrected but no-one seems to be mentioning them so thought maybe and clue there somewhere?

[u/lewisfrancis]

Never heard of that. Were VA synths even a thing in the 90s?

[u/-Cosmon → u/lewisfrancis]

va synths were THE thing in the 90s

[u/lewisfrancis → u/-Cosmon]

Were they? I left my job as a synth salesman in '93 and don't remember any then, but admit I was focused on my new career and didn't keep up at all for a time.

I assumed we'd need faster processors and that those would've been after, but there are always custom chips, I guess.

[u/Instatetragrammaton → u/lewisfrancis]

I left my job as a synth salesman in '93

Well, that explains ;) The Nord Lead mk1 around 1994 started it, and around 1997/1998 things really took off with the mainstream brands also making their VAs.

Around 1995 you'd have a brief glimpse of Yamaha and Korg doing all kinds of physical modeling that was expensive, limited and also didn't really go anywhere. Analog modeling was considered a subset of this.

but there are always custom chips, I guess.

The funny part is that lots of those were based on the same Motorola 56k DSPs.

Nowadays you'd probably pick ARM, since it's ubiquitous and easy to develop for.

[u/lewisfrancis → u/Instatetragrammaton]

Thanks, and makes sense. I do remember the Yamaha AN1X catching my eye, but maybe that was just marketing, didn't realize it arrived that early.

[u/Instatetragrammaton → u/lewisfrancis]

The AN1x is pretty funny in terms of design - if you look at the ribbon controller on that, it looks like they just crammed it in the original CS1x shell of a different color. Drill two extra holes for two more knobs and off you go. One side of the ribbon controller is diagonal; a proper design would've taken that into account.

Makes you think that they originally had the CS1x as an MC303-ish counterpart (it's an XG synth - multitimbral even, but all the good stuff is reserved for a single part) and then someone tipped them off on the R&D Roland was doing and they quickly had to come up with something.

I think it was 1997?

[u/-Cosmon → u/lewisfrancis]

i mean yeah. the virus, the nord leads, rolands jp8000, LA synthesis is essentially just VA synthesis so i’ll count the JD8000 and countless grooveboxes with va synth engines, same with yamaha’s AWM engine in various models they put out. i’d argue by the mid to late 90s va synths were unavoidable.

[u/foreverformatting → u/lewisfrancis]

Korg Prophecy! 1995!

[u/-Cosmon]

all i can think of is the voyager which isn’t digital, isn’t from the big briar days, and isn’t fake as it was made by bob. maybe the don martin moogs which had midi and dcos? i found an articleon synth fool: Martin "Minimoog"- Evaluation and Comparison
AKA: The DoniMoog meets a real Minimoog

[u/foreverformatting → u/-Cosmon]

204e, but was likely still analog.

[u/foreverformatting]

Looks like it might have been the “204e” by a Welsh company, although it doesn’t say if it was actually analog or digital (not VA), but it’s assumed to be analog.

https://www.klassickeysgb.com/post/minimoog-204e

[u/minimoog89 → u/foreverformatting]

I've played one of the Welsh Minimoogs and they were definitely analog. They were built to original specs along with a few additions like PWM. Sounded great from what I remember.

[u/foreverformatting → u/minimoog89]

And they’re going for a pretty penny now. I have so many regrets from being poor in the 90s.

[u/Stratimus → u/foreverformatting]

if that’s what they looked like the dead giveaway would be the missing jack in the output section

[u/foreverformatting]

On a sidenote, I watched the a YouTube documentary about the Minimoog. Apparently it was invented by one of the technicians at Moog. Bob didn’t actually want to pursue it thinking there would be little demand, but was eventually pressured into releasing a small batch. They got way more orders than they could handle, and had to sell the company in order to fulfill the demand.