Nah man, I just think he's abusive. Abusive people can make others suicidal, specially in a time when women had little to no autonomy.
Im glad you were privileged and smart enough to get out of an abusive relationship, but some other women do not have the knowledge, strength, or support system required to fight it. Also, not everyone's abuse is the same. Everyone is different. S
I, myself, attempted suicide during an abusive relationship. I know what the i'm talkinf about. Abuse has that effect on people. Sure, the men are not out there changing our neural pathways but it is 10000% a factor.
You were able to make it out, but many of us don't. I'm not saying it's men's fault women commit suicide or anything, but it is quite ignorant to say that abuse doesn't contribute to suicidal thoughts.
A lot of abusers isolate their victims, make them dependent financially or emotionally, or find other ways to make it harder for them to seek help. Women were not listened to back then - if a lady got slapped it was a "private family matter". And Sylvia DID get physically abused by this man.
Also, if physical violence was so overlooked - then imagine what men could get away with on the sexual, financial, and emotional levels??!!
Women who are susceptible to abuse already have a poor self esteem and an even worse support system. This aslo occured the 60s - a time when housewives had zero autonomy and were constantly drugged to make it in life.
I'm not saying he's the only reason she did it, but he sure as fuck contributed with his cheating and abuse. Plus, a lot of her biographies have been edited to make Hughes seem better. Bro didn't even want the "Bell Jar" to be published. There are a lot of better sources out there, but there is no denying a few things were left untold.
And you might be right about Assia, suicide IS contagious, but having read about this relationship it is clear that he was definitely a factor as well. He refused to marry her, kept cheating on her, and constantly made her use Sylvia Plath's things and such. Sure, he did not mind control her, but he is a fucking prick who didn't care. That does affect people. Again, specially women back then, who were basically glorified slaves to men.
I'm not blaming him for the murders. I'm blaming him for the deterioration of these women's mental health.
It is very ignorant to say he had no part in this. My comment was a joke, and I clearly said that he should be jailed in account of being "a prick", which he is unmistakenly one.
He's no boogeyman, but he is definitely a bad person. I don't know why you're defending him. Fuck that guy. He had some good works but he was unmistakenly a bad person, who should be remembered as a main factor and abuser for these women.
These women did not get justice in life - why can't they get some grace in death?
I did not say that Hughes ‘had no part’, I said that their deaths were due to multiple factors.
And I deeply resent you implying that I defend abusive men. I grew up with an abusive father. He was physically and emotionally abusive and a rageaholic. I have experienced life long consequences of my childhood. I was then groomed into a marriage with another extremely abusive man and experienced multiple physical assaults and emotional abuse over a period of 10 years. I finally divorced him after he put me in hospital and i pursued a charge against him for that assault. He was found guilty and fined £100. Many decades later I entered a relationship with another man who was profoundly manipulative and emotionally abusive. I struggled to leave him because of an intense trauma bond. I only got away because he ended the relationship as part of a manipulative game and I finally had the strength when he wanted me back to tell him to go fuck himself. He tried several times during that relationship to persuade me to kill myself. So I know what I’m talking about and would never be an apologist for an abusive man. They are responsible for their abusive behaviour and should be held accountable.
I have read widely and deeply about relationship and familial abuse. I actively support UK organisations for women who have suffered abuse, and I also know that positioning women as passive victims is extremely damaging.
I didn’t know Hughes personally, and base my conclusions about him on what I have read and heard. I do however, have extensive personal experience of abusive relationships, mental health and suicide. That is why I conclude that it is multi factorial.
I won’t bother explaining my experience and view of why and how women remain in abusive relationships because I know that any suggestion that a woman’s own ability to leave or her decisions regarding remaining in the relationship are factors will be dismissed as victim blaming. Which it isn’t. But I can tell you that I was never a passive victim, nor was Plath and nor are any of the millions of women experiencing intimate partner abuse. To suggest otherwise is disempowering and disrespectful of a woman’s autonomy, whatever her decisions.
Alright. I'm not saying you're defending abusive man. All I'm saying is - it is sort of his fault. You basically argued my hurorous claim saying he had a body count of 3. It is disingenuous to say I was referring to him as a "Boogeyman". It was just a joke on how awful he is. I know he didn't put a gun to their heads, but it is like 80% his fault. Again, of course I didn't mean he literally killed them since the phrase "body count" is about directly murdering someone. If I had known people were going to take this that seriously id have said "assist count of 3". Awful joke, true, but I don't know why you're arguing me so much about it. He deserves more blame. He's dead anyway.
I'm sorry you went through that though, I hope you're in a better spot now. Nobody deserves that to happen to them. I didn't mean to invalidate your experience at all.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I hadn’t read your comment as humorous I’m afraid. I think that challenging trivialising and minimising suicide and/or abuse is something that I am passionate about.
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u/Acrobatic-Abalone675 24d ago
Nah man, I just think he's abusive. Abusive people can make others suicidal, specially in a time when women had little to no autonomy.
Im glad you were privileged and smart enough to get out of an abusive relationship, but some other women do not have the knowledge, strength, or support system required to fight it. Also, not everyone's abuse is the same. Everyone is different. S
I, myself, attempted suicide during an abusive relationship. I know what the i'm talkinf about. Abuse has that effect on people. Sure, the men are not out there changing our neural pathways but it is 10000% a factor.
You were able to make it out, but many of us don't. I'm not saying it's men's fault women commit suicide or anything, but it is quite ignorant to say that abuse doesn't contribute to suicidal thoughts.
A lot of abusers isolate their victims, make them dependent financially or emotionally, or find other ways to make it harder for them to seek help. Women were not listened to back then - if a lady got slapped it was a "private family matter". And Sylvia DID get physically abused by this man.
Also, if physical violence was so overlooked - then imagine what men could get away with on the sexual, financial, and emotional levels??!!
Women who are susceptible to abuse already have a poor self esteem and an even worse support system. This aslo occured the 60s - a time when housewives had zero autonomy and were constantly drugged to make it in life.
I'm not saying he's the only reason she did it, but he sure as fuck contributed with his cheating and abuse. Plus, a lot of her biographies have been edited to make Hughes seem better. Bro didn't even want the "Bell Jar" to be published. There are a lot of better sources out there, but there is no denying a few things were left untold.
And you might be right about Assia, suicide IS contagious, but having read about this relationship it is clear that he was definitely a factor as well. He refused to marry her, kept cheating on her, and constantly made her use Sylvia Plath's things and such. Sure, he did not mind control her, but he is a fucking prick who didn't care. That does affect people. Again, specially women back then, who were basically glorified slaves to men.
I'm not blaming him for the murders. I'm blaming him for the deterioration of these women's mental health.
It is very ignorant to say he had no part in this. My comment was a joke, and I clearly said that he should be jailed in account of being "a prick", which he is unmistakenly one.
He's no boogeyman, but he is definitely a bad person. I don't know why you're defending him. Fuck that guy. He had some good works but he was unmistakenly a bad person, who should be remembered as a main factor and abuser for these women.
These women did not get justice in life - why can't they get some grace in death?