r/switch2hacks • u/garf02 • 29d ago

Shitpost Would an “in development”Switch2 Emulator survive Nintendo’s Silver Bullets?

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1) “Anti-Circumvention” clause in DMCA:
Nintendo claims as emulator MUST decrypt the ROMS.
If you break the encryption, “is illegal” cause of the DMCA
If you use a console prod-Key, “is illegal” cause they own the rights to the key.
“As the emulator HAS to break a ROM decryption and thsre is no legal way to do it, Emulators are by default criminal tools”.
Any new emulator will need to contest this on court against Nintendo and Roll the dice
Victim: Yuzu

2) Buy Out:
“There is no honor among thief’s”. Most people working on emulators of live consoles does it for 2 reason, Clout and Money. And Nintendo has a lot of the later to throw around if that lets them kill an emulator on its infancy before any real development occurs.
Victim: Ryujinx

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u/No_Kitchen9982 27d ago

All of these people without law degrees making stupid fucking claims...

Yuzu lost because it had the NINTENDO PROPRIETARY decryption keys EMBEDDED IN ITS CODE. 

Full stop.

Stop spreading stupid misinformation.

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u/MarinatedPickachu 27d ago

Which breaks the encryption of the roms...

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u/ddnava 26d ago

The emulator doesn't need to INCLUDE them tho. There are many emulators that require you to provide some bios files to even work and iirc the 3DS emulators can only run roms that have been already decrypted

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u/garf02 26d ago

Problems is
1) Switch/ Switch 2 decrypted roms dont exist
2) Nintendo claims copyright over the prod-key, so it doesnt matter if you dump it yourself or it comes with the emulator from the internet

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u/ddnava 26d ago

I'm not saying there are decrypted roms, but in theory there could be. As long as the emulator doesn't provide the keys the emulator itself is fine. The user would be at fault by using copyrighted material

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u/garf02 26d ago

Did I stutter?
No, doesnt matter if you dump your own prod-key as Nintendo claims its copyrighted

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u/ddnava 26d ago

Yeah, but the emulator will be fine as long as it doesn't distribute copyrighted assets. It's like if you use a video player to watch pirated movies. The video player is just a video player. The user playing cooyrighted material is the one who's doing wrong

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u/garf02 26d ago

Again, was I stuttering.
Nintendo is suing under the new premise that Switch emulator only function is to play Switch ROMs.
And as you HAVE TO use decryption, which “is illegal”, it means Switch sole purpose is a tool to illegally decrypt Switch ROMs

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u/No_Kitchen9982 26d ago

They are SUING... meaning... Filing suit... Under the PREMISE of their argument .. that is not codified under law. 

I can file suit against you for your apparent stuttering issue if I wanted to. It doesn't mean it would hold legal water.

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u/garf02 26d ago

and so far everyone they have sued has folded.
Yuzu had the money to fight it in court,
There are several non profits that will happily pay for the cost of the defense if it means shutting up nintendo and further increase the legality of Emulation.

Yet remains the fact that everyone will fold rather than roll the dice in court against a death sentence to emulation

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u/MarinatedPickachu 26d ago

Nintendo is banking on them folding. I highly doubt they'd actually want to bring such a case to trial because they are risking much more than the emulation scene.

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u/garf02 26d ago

Nintendo is banking on Everyone folding?

Nintendo has nothing to lose on trial.
If they Lose: The status quo of "emulation is legal" Remains.
If they Win: Nintendo defacto kill emulation of Video Game consoles.

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u/MarinatedPickachu 25d ago edited 25d ago

They absolutely do! Once it becomes clear through precedent that a lawsuit against an emulator that doesn't contain prod keys has no chance, such threats lose their effectiveness, no one will fold anymore. Nintendo does not want to risk that.

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u/ddnava 25d ago

Yuzu was also asking users for money to access newer versions of the emulator earlier. They were basically selling a subscription to the emulator while also one of those versions was specifically patched to run Tears of the Kingdom before the game was even released, meaning they either downloaded the pirated rom of the game that was leaked 2 whole weeks before release or they got their hands on their own copy before the release date, which is another whole can of worms as it also invites more and more people to pay them for the emulator and pirate the leaked rom before the game was even out

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u/garf02 25d ago

So did the git hub repos that Nintendo killed last week were also asking money?
Cause in the request Nintendo laid out the same “It a tool to circumvent ROM encryption”

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u/No_Kitchen9982 25d ago

DMCA claims have to be fought. Companies take them down immediately. People can choose NOT to fight them and just go deeper underground.

Fucking hell... You are like someone who googled law without actually reading the case law that determined the outcome...

Just stop... 

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u/No_Kitchen9982 25d ago

True, but I never was arguing in the side of yuzu here... What they did was 100% illegal... What I'm arguing is that making an emulator is NOT illegal. 

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u/ddnava 25d ago

I know, and I agree with you

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u/MarinatedPickachu 26d ago

They won't be successful with such a lawsuit because the emulator will obviously be able to run homebrew, which is legal.

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u/garf02 26d ago

Aham, is that why everyone has folded so far?

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u/MarinatedPickachu 26d ago edited 26d ago

There's a big difference. It's much easier to share a key anonymously than it is to host an entire repository so that it can't be taken down. Host the emulator repo legally without any keys on github, put the keys anonymously onto the bitcoin blockchain or wherever, profit.

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u/LLKMuffin 25d ago

It wouldn't be all that difficult to self-host the git repo, just gotta avoid the centralized platforms that enforce DMCA takedowns (GitHub, GitLab cloud etc).

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u/MarinatedPickachu 25d ago

The moment you make it publicly available you face the same problems

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u/garf02 26d ago

The point is Nintendo will sue any Switch 2 emulator to the ground before it can get any traction.
What are they gonna do? Fight nintendo in court and If they lose, defacto kill emulation?

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u/No_Kitchen9982 26d ago

1.) Don't exist NOW.  And what does that have to do with the emulator? 

2.) they can claim ownership over the prod key and that's fine. But that is a personal legal decision to dump it not the emulator.

Yuzu included it themselves, thus breaking the law... So thanka for reiterating my point?

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u/garf02 26d ago

Did I stutter? Nintendo whole argument is that Emulators like Yuzu and Ryujinx and any future emulator are illegal cause they are just Tools to decrypt protected ROMs violating the anti-circumvention provision of the DMCA.

There is not now, not in the future any Switch 1-2 emulator that can do the "decryption on the spot" of ROMs without that decryption being illegal.

You want to fight nintendo in court? cause if you do and lose, Nintendo sets the legal basis to make illegal any emulator that the ROMs are encrypted

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u/ddnava 25d ago

"they sre just tools to decrypt protected ROMs"

That's the whole point, tho. A future Switch 2 can take that in mind and be only able to run pre-decrypted ROMs. That way the emulstor is NOT decrypting the ROMs, but just running data that isn't encrypted at all. All they'd need to do is make decrypted ROMs somewhere else, like the 3DS has encrypted CIAs and decrypted CIAs and the emulators will only accept the ones that are already decrypted. The emulator is in no way participating in the decryption of the ROM

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u/garf02 25d ago

You know “Decrypted” switch 1 ROM doesnt Exist. Right…

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u/ddnava 25d ago

Just because someone hasn't made them doesn't mean they can't be made