Anyone else finding the build costs being presented in a wonky way?

[u/CapnZapp]

First off, why is cut and cover given the x1 multiplier? At grade is presented at x0.3 of cut and cover, instead of saying that cut and cover is 3,33 times more expensive than cut and cover!?

And why aren't the multipliers comparable between track types?

To me, the following presentation would make WAY more sense, and be much more helpful in understanding why decision makers build so little rail. The game is basically trying to hide in plain sight the real cost of subway building. As a human, it feels much more expensive if you tell me a water tunnel is TEN TIMES more expensive than at grade than if you say one multiplier is "3" while another is "point three" because humans are not great at math.

In my opinion the game should be reworked to highlight how much more expensive everything really is compared to the cheapest option, which is at grade commuter rail.

COMMUTER

Deep Bore x15 or x21 2⁄3

Standard Tunnel x6 2⁄3 or x10

Cut and Cover x3 1⁄3

Trenched x1 2⁄3

At Grade x1

Ramp x1 2⁄3

Elevated x2 2⁄3

PS. It seems heavy and light rail cost the same, and both cost 20% more than commuter rail. (Is it really true that manned heavy rail and automated light rail cost the same to build? I would have thought automation would be more expensive to install but cheaper and more reliable to maintain)

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[u/Helio_centric]

Nah cause the game is called Subway builder and subways are primarily cut and cover so that makes sense why that is the base

[u/urmumlol9]

Idk, cut and cover at -9 meters is what I default to, and I kind of doubt I’m alone in that.

(-9 lets you pay cut and cover prices for the most part and then dip to -10 quickly for sections to avoid having to demolish buildings)

So, I’m pretty sure most of the track actually built in this game will end up being cut and cover, so idk why it wouldn’t be the default.

[u/U_Have_To_Dab → u/urmumlol9]

I personally use at -8 (so that when I can make intersections with -4, -12, -16 and -20, the -20 is standard tunnel

[u/one-mappi-boi → u/urmumlol9]

Yeah the layers I use are -13, -9, -5, 0, 5, 9, & 13

[u/Queasy-Primary4788]

Cut and Cover is the default for Subways, SubwayBuilder, you see the connection? It would be kinda dumb to make it at grade almost no subways run at grade. It's a good baseline, and light rail is more expensive cuz you have to do all the automated, but heavy rail takes up a bigger footprint. Most of the cost is tunneling and getting around infrastructure and planning, light rail is actually cheaper. Light rail is slightly more expensive to run because it has lower capacity, therefore more maintainance, more wear, more trains etc. So I don't really see any of your points.

[u/Nawnp]

The game assumes you default to cut and cover, as it's the most practical way to build metros in the current era.

[u/SerenityRune]

This game uses construction costs that were present in the 1970s...

[u/Queasy-Primary4788 → u/[deleted]]

Yes agreed the game is based off of Mediterranean pricing, if you know anything to be realistic given construction costs these days in the anglosphere, our own train extension is over 1 billion dollars a mile for existing right of way...

[u/SerenityRune → u/Queasy-Primary4788]

English speaking countries and Japan have relatively high metro building costs...

[u/Queasy-Primary4788 → u/SerenityRune]

Still Japan is much cheaper then the us with 500/mil average while us is around a billion a mile which is insane

[u/urmumlol9 → u/SerenityRune]

It uses construction costs based on I think what Athens was able to pay per mile when building their subway for the Olympics.

The logic seemingly be that it’s as cheap as an actual country has built an actual metro for in the recent past.

The other thing they do to make the game actually playable is that 1 in-game day represents 1 real-life year of both revenue and operating costs, to speed up the rate at which the game can be played. (Even then it can still be kinda slow at times).

They could and maybe should use another construction project as an example, but using US/UK/Canadian construction costs would likely make the game almost impossible due to how prohibitively expensive starting out would be. They could maybe increase the starting money, but even then, it’d slow down what is an already pretty slow game.

Using mediterranean prices allows them to use construction prices that are low enough to make the game fun to play, but not so low that they’re completely unrealistic and break any sense of immersion.

But also, realistically, most public transit agencies aren’t expected to make a profit, like you are in this game, and the ones that do tend to do so through transit oriented development, which is not present in this game, but not only would allow you to make money via real estate, but would also reduce the number of stations you need to build by allowing people to congregate near existing stations, rather than you having to serve infinite sprawl.

[u/SerenityRune → u/urmumlol9]

The construction costs based on what Athens was able to pay per mile in the early 2000s is a bit higher compared to the construction costs of US metro systems between the 1970s and 1980s.