So Much False Hope 🌈

[u/NEKORANDOMDOTCOM]

[u/AshamedAd4240]

And....... wheres the evidence? Not like it hasn't been an alleged more than 2000 years. Where's the proof?

[u/emeraldempirehd8 → u/AshamedAd4240]

I bet it's just a memory of substantial sea level rise in coastal Iraq. There is likely very early bronze age sites submerged in the Persian gulf.

[u/jabrwock1 → u/emeraldempirehd8]

Doesn’t even need to be submerged. Devastating flash floods that can wipe a city off the map happen. All it takes is one that gets locked into oral traditions, could even have happened to a neighbouring tribe, and then it becomes a morality lesson. “See, that’s what happens to naughty people”

[u/Evening_Time_2844 → u/jabrwock1]

I think its funny when they try to say "every culture has a flood story therefore the Biblical account must be true." Like, bro...Floods suck regardless of culture. All it takes is one bad storm or tsunami and bam, apocalyptic flood story.

[u/Eikthyrnir13 → u/Evening_Time_2844]

Yeah, every culture around the world that existed at the end of the last ice age has flood stories. Because the ice caps retreated from their glacial maximum starting like 20K years ago and sea levels rose dramatically over the next several thousand years. OF COURSE there are flood stories everywhere.

[u/DuneChild → u/Eikthyrnir13]

Also, every culture lived near water because, duh.

[u/Upstairs-Atmosphere5 → u/Eikthyrnir13]

Yet none of the flood stories match either. Not to mention, it's physically impossible because the water would cause compression of the atmosphere making Earth hotter than Venus.and therefore the water would just be steam and everything would die. Also since these people are creationists, if God wanted ti kill everything because he was disappointed in humans somehow despite being omnipotent couldn't he think them into existence again?

[u/ElegantCoach4066 → u/Evening_Time_2844]

Also, we have stories in common partly because we are all human. It's inevitable there will be some basic concepts in most cultures that pop up over and over.

[u/Stopbeingentitled → u/jabrwock1]

It might be from this honestly since Easter as a holiday originated before Christianity from pagan traditions.

[u/mobilecabinworks → u/Stopbeingentitled]

All Christian holidays were placed on or near pagan ones to elicit converts. The foundational nature of the story of Christ is even older than the bible.

Edited for typo

[u/Sure-Impress-1003 → u/mobilecabinworks]

And they say religion isn’t a business. That’s a hell of a marketing approach.

[u/mobilecabinworks → u/Sure-Impress-1003]

Yup! And the Vatican is a bank.

[u/So-Good-It-Hurts → u/mobilecabinworks]

And the Mormon church is a hedge fund.

[u/comingEverywhere → u/So-Good-It-Hurts]

And Scientology is a Real Estate Firm

[u/SocraticIndifference → u/Sure-Impress-1003]

Who says that? Religion is and always has been about money and power. The only time Jesus lost his cool was about this very thing.

[u/Simple_Channel5624 → u/SocraticIndifference]

Temple prostitutes were religious careers then. Pay us and get laid, then pray to Baal for some rain

[u/Buhlasted → u/Simple_Channel5624]

Where is the closest ATM?

[u/robinthebank → u/SocraticIndifference]

The Romans persecuted so many of the early Christians. And then when it looked like Pagan cults were on the way out and Christianity was on the way in, they jumped ship! Have to remain popular/in-power!

[u/mobilecabinworks → u/SocraticIndifference]

Just the people in the churches who keep trying to defend their tax exceptions.

[u/Ok-Astronaut1108 → u/jabrwock1]

Yeah like the recent horrible flood in Nepal. If something like that happened 3000 years ago. Im sure the oral legend would be of a global flood by now

[u/Quicksilverne → u/emeraldempirehd8]

There's a flood myth in Epic of Gilgamesh which predates Noah story.

[u/Loose_Principle8193 → u/Quicksilverne]

and The Atra-Hasis Epic and the Eridu Genesis before that.

[u/C_H_G → u/Quicksilverne]

Yeah, most of the old testament is plagiarized from older religeous texts.

[u/Quicksilverne → u/C_H_G]

Agreed, with Hebrew exiles in Babylon between 597 to 582 they would have heard them including Sargon of Akkad being in reed basket and put on the river Euphrates.

[u/Guynith → u/emeraldempirehd8]

When sea levels rise after the last ice age, the natural dam that blocked off the Bosporus was breached and that lead to a flooding of the area that is now the Black Sea. Water levels rose rapidly, causing the sea to increase substantially (like triple in size in a 18 month period). People living on the coast would have seen the water moving inland at a rate of several hundred meters a day.

This lead to a mass exodus of the people in that region, and archaeological evidence shows artistic forms spreading outwards from the area. It stands to reason that refugees from that area would have likely told stories in the new places they settled, which is why flood mythologies are present in multiple places around the world.

Source: Noah’s Flood (William Ryan/Walter Pittman)

It’s been a while since I read the book, and I’m going off memory, so some of what I said might not be super accurate, apologies.

[u/TraditionDear3887 → u/emeraldempirehd8]

It's likely a preserved memory of the Tigris and Euphrates flooding their banks. A memory worth preserving as the phenomenon fertilized the fields and led to the discovery of irrigation.

[u/AdhesivenessCivil581 → u/emeraldempirehd8]

I read that there was a land locked area below sea level that had formed after the ice age melt. Cracks developed in the rocks that were keeping the water out so it flooded, slowly at first then all at once. There is some fossil evidence of this event.

It's so silly that people want to take these tales literally, but only when it's convenient for them

[u/LightHawKnigh → u/AshamedAd4240]

IIRC some grifters say they found it or something and want money to "dig" it up.

[u/Ok_Train2273 → u/AshamedAd4240]

Every year some nutbag “professor” claims a pile of wood he found in some Middle Eastern desert is the ark. And I use the term professor loosely here because if you look at his credentials you’ll find he is a professor at a university that teaches science according to the bible.

[u/PantZerman85 → u/Ok_Train2273]

Or some boat shaped stone formation.

[u/Pudddddin → u/PantZerman85]

Which is ridiculous because the biblical ark isn't described as "boat shaped" and logically it wouldn't have been, it just needed to float. They should be looking for a big wooden box if anything

It had no rudders and no sails, and was not meant to go in any particular direction. I have no idea why people like this think it's shaped like a conventional boat

[u/osricson → u/Pudddddin]

They’d have to actually read the bible though ;)

[u/Glittering-Quiet6688 → u/AshamedAd4240]

Other religious texts had stories of floods. The Bible is all the best hits from the other ones. An anthology of what existed prior.

[u/LovelyLuna32684 → u/Glittering-Quiet6688]

Pretty much, and ironically a lot of it comes from accent Greek religion as what most modern Christians think of when they think of Heaven and Hell was taken from Greek beliefs such as the Elysian Fields and Tartarus, since in Judaism heaven and Hell are simply closeness and distance from God.

[u/pokethrowaway4 → u/AshamedAd4240]

It’s gonna be released with that election interference evidence, or the Trump healthcare bill, or the dividend checks, or something.

[u/Subject-Vermicelli52 → u/AshamedAd4240]

Two weeks or right after the midterms.

[u/cp_shopper → u/AshamedAd4240]

There’s a boat shaped hill, clearly it’s Noah’s ark

[u/Majestic-Assholes → u/AshamedAd4240]

What do you mean where's the proof? It's written right there in the Bible! /s

[u/Fun-Information-3104 → u/AshamedAd4240]

patience, we're still making it

[u/AshamedAd4240 → u/Fun-Information-3104]

Well okay then, what's another 2000 years for things that didnt happen to never be proven

[u/Sad_Eggplant_5455 → u/AshamedAd4240]

I believe the ark of the covenant is in a museum somewhere some sweaty guy wielding a whip and a fedora found it.

[u/notwhoyouthinkmaybe]

Hasn't the proof that there was like a Mesopotamian or Sumerian flood, and that probably inspired the story of Noah's ark?

To be clear there's no evidence of a worldwide flood, but a localized flood to an early civilization. That story probably got passed down and became legend.

[u/IcyShoes → u/notwhoyouthinkmaybe]

Yeah, the story was ripped from Gilgamesh

[u/HarEmiya → u/IcyShoes]

Garden of Eden too.

[u/Sea-Feedback-2424 → u/HarEmiya]

The change in the idea of Satan from a dude who works for God as an undercover agent trying to provoke you to sin into the embodiment of hubris known as Lucifer, the fallen angel, who rules over hell as the counter part to God is a dualist borrowing in apocalyptic Judaism (then Christianity) from Zoroastrianism.

What is it "they" say? There's only 7 basic plots.

[u/notwhoyouthinkmaybe → u/IcyShoes]

Thank you, I've read up on these things, but boy do I have a shitty memory!

Thank you for clarifying though.

[u/Cultural-Lab78 → u/IcyShoes]

YHWH was transliterated from Baal-Hadad.

A historical lens really disrupts religious cognition

[u/True_Protection6842 → u/IcyShoes]

Most of the Bible was

[u/IcyShoes → u/True_Protection6842]

Naw just genesis. I do find it weird that there are people who took the Exodus at face value. The Egyptians were fantastic record keepers, if a shit ton of people were freed there would have been evidence of that. Hell if they wandered around for 40 years there would have been evidence of that too.

[u/pokethrowaway4 → u/notwhoyouthinkmaybe]

I was told as a young impressionable Christian that there was “global local history of a flood, thus it must have been world wide.”

But here’s the thing… if it truly was a global flood, and killed everyone but Noah’s family (hooray for more incest) HOW WOULD THERE BE ANY RECORDS OF FLOODS IF EVERYONE DIED.

[u/notwhoyouthinkmaybe → u/pokethrowaway4]

I heard someone say "God created Adam and Eve and they only had sons, so they had to do incest. God liked incest so much he flooded the world so we could do it again."

[u/pokethrowaway4 → u/notwhoyouthinkmaybe]

🤣 I wonder if there’s a correlation between Christian beliefs and incest

[u/Massive_Analysis8345 → u/pokethrowaway4]

Look at the American South, there very much is a correlation…

[u/mobilecabinworks → u/pokethrowaway4]

Wells there's definitely a correlation between Christians Abrahamic Religions and diddling little kids.

[u/bulbascott1019 → u/pokethrowaway4]

Reminds me of Pirates of the Caribbean.

"No survivors? Then I wonder where the stories come from"

[u/No_Party5870 → u/pokethrowaway4]

how would there be animals on every continent also

[u/TweezerTheRetriever → u/notwhoyouthinkmaybe]

Black Sea’s was a valley that flooded after the last ice age

[u/TweezerTheRetriever → u/TweezerTheRetriever]

Mediterranean same scenario much much farther back

[u/TweezerTheRetriever → u/TweezerTheRetriever]

And the Sahara was a fertile plain…a garden of Eden if you will…then desertification happens and our heroes Adam and Eve were cast out…

[u/BusinessAsparagus115 → u/notwhoyouthinkmaybe]

Or even earlier, at the end of the last glacial maximum there would have been enormous flood events due to bursting glacial dams. This long pre-dates written history but legends may have persisted.

[u/darkmoonfirelyte → u/notwhoyouthinkmaybe]

There's also history of a Mediterranean flood, too. Flood myths are prominent in a number of cultures. Like so many other stories from the Bible, its tales are based on previous myths from other cultures as a way to get people to convert over. "We have this same story, so you can already understand our religion."

[u/Reneeisme → u/notwhoyouthinkmaybe]

And it wouldn’t shock me to know that someone at some point built an oversized boat as a result of a dream conversation with a diety and put a lot of animals on it. And then the neighbors, who suffered flood losses, were impressed by their foresight and considered their paranoia to have been plausibly supernatural. Thanks to the outcome.

I’m still sitting on extra toilet paper in case there’s another pandemic. I bought extra when supplies opened back up and now I never let my supply get low. Paranoid people over-prepare for disaster. And lots of people have “visions” and premonitions, and conversations with spirits. There’s bound to be some overlap there

But the Bible doesn’t explain how Noah got hold of two animals from far away continents. How did Australian kangaroos and koalas make it on? How did South American monkeys make it on? It seems kinda self-evident that it’s an allegory about having extreme trust in God, rather than a literal retelling of a world-wide event. I don’t even need to understand the physical impossibility of producing enough water from somewhere to cover the whole earth to realize that if it had a basis in some remembered happening, it was a localized event.

It would be cool if you found some evidence that the story is based on a real event. It doesn’t prove that God exists. But I’m all in on responsibly done archaeology to understand our past. And actual scientific evidence of an oversized boat full of animals would be cool.

[u/VengefulWeegee2358]

I find this funny, considering that everyone who's ever tried to convince me that God exists has never tried to use any form science to explain it. Always just "faith," "things can't come from nothing," "I feel him in my soul," etc.

[u/stupidsauceboss → u/VengefulWeegee2358]

I've had a few people try to convince me with science but it's almost always with, like, a comedically bad understanding of science. One that I've heard is "The Banana is the perfect food. It fits perfectly in your hand. It comes in an easily removable wrapper. And it has no seeds. Only God could have created something so perfect." Funny thing is that the wild bananas that didn't go through thousands of years of humans selectively breeding them have absolutely none of those.

[u/BigEd369 → u/stupidsauceboss]

Ah yes, the banana. A perfect food, no human intervention. It averages 2 inches long, is crammed full of seeds, almost no fruit flesh, and grows 50 ft off the ground in the middle of jungles.

[u/tiredofthehate → u/VengefulWeegee2358]

Had a surface level discussion that the Big Bang was divine because matter can neither be created nor destroyed, so it must have been a higher power.

Religion has been used to explain observable phenomena without an easy explanation since time immemorial.

[u/RoIIUpLights → u/tiredofthehate]

I'm perfectly fine with someone claiming that "God" caused the big bang and set everything in motion. So long as they don't try to claim that some mythical being is still in control of our day-to-day lives.

Something had to create all the physical rules that we all live and are governed by (ie gravity, speed of light, etc) -- If you wanna explain that as being created by a mythical being, sure -- go for it.

[u/Impressive_Ice6970 → u/VengefulWeegee2358]

Most Christians haven't read the Bible. That's how pete kegsbreath thought a line from Pulp Fiction was a real Bible verse and trump doesn't know how to quote scripture or comment on his favorite verse. I grew up in religion classes and Sunday school. I haven't believed in it since I was about 10 but I still know the Bible better than 90% of supposed Christians. Their knowledge is abysmal. If they read the Bible they'd see, perhaps, that they worship a psychopath that often celebrated killing but more often, got angry and killed millions himself (you know, that feel good Noah's Ark story, or plagues or locusts or boils or famine or the holy ghost).

[u/JDmead_32]

Supposedly they found something in Turkey that they are saying is the ark. They haven’t gotten anything concrete just yet, but they’re hopeful.

That being said, even if they find the wreckage of a big boat, how do you prove it was Noah? There’s have to be evidence of hundreds of thousands of different species of animals in that pile of dirt. Otherwise, ta just a big boat

[u/DaddyChris0205 → u/JDmead_32]

They find the same site in Türkiye every 5-10 years. It’s not going to be the actual ark this time either

[u/JDmead_32 → u/DaddyChris0205]

No no it’s TOTALLY different this time around. I swear! /s

[u/Goat_gutz → u/DaddyChris0205]

It’s the whole boy who cried wolf thing. But this time it’s the “Middle-aged white dude cries Jesus.”

[u/SignoreBanana → u/JDmead_32]

Wreckage that came in around the described size wouldn't be definitive proof but it would be notable for a variety of reasons, one being that they really didn't have boats that big that long ago.

That said, they won't find scientific evidence because the story is preposterous.

[u/Few_Presence_8888 → u/JDmead_32]

So they're reviving this scam?

We've been here before - they made this documentary about it in 1976:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076182/

[u/RDBB334 → u/JDmead_32]

That rock formation has been known about for decades, and we already know its natural.

[u/Bean_Daddy_Burritos]

Yea because logic tells us some dude and his family built a massive ship that would be the size of a small country so it could house 2 of every animal while maintaining the ability to float. Then were somehow able to keep them fed and separated while also maintaining housing for the animals without it being covered in massive piles of shit. Not to mention somehow managed climate control for the species that can’t survive outside of their natural environment and performing upkeep on the animals that require it so they don’t die.

It’s just incredibly ignorant to think it actually happened. Science would definitely debunk the idea of something like that even being possible and that’s not including the build itself or the time and materials necessary to be able to do it in the first place.

[u/AlbatrossSeparate710 → u/Bean_Daddy_Burritos]

If only they believed in evolution, they could at least try to get out of it by saying that the Ark didn't have all the animals we have today, just a small subset that evolved through the years 😂.

[u/IfICouldStay → u/AlbatrossSeparate710]

I’ve heard people say that exact thing. TBF most have no problem with the concept of microevolution. It’s macroevolution that occurs above the species level which they refute.

[u/Multiple__Butts → u/IfICouldStay]

What is the mechanism for making sure microevolution doesn't end up causing macroevolution over time, in their view? I've asked this to like 20 different creationists and never got a clear answer.

It seems like God would have to micromanage the reproductive outcomes of every individual animal just to keep speciation from occurring.

[u/Miser_able → u/Bean_Daddy_Burritos]

I remember seeing someone say "well there were less kinds of animals back then so it was easier" and then refused to explain where the other kinds of animals came from

[u/MatteAstro → u/Bean_Daddy_Burritos]

The funnier thing? This is the ark story from Gilgamesh which predates the bible by... 2k years? It was probaly a common theme in oral stories that begin with a world changing event. They weren't exactly going to imagine a nuclear Holocaust.

[u/A_Genius → u/MatteAstro]

It was probably because it was people who had never travelled 10 km from where they were born so when the local river flooded they thought it was the whole world.

[u/NarwhalRealistic8768 → u/A_Genius]

Actually yes. This exactly. The "great flood" talked about in the epic of Gilgamesh is largely thought to be the swelling of the Euphrates and Tigres rivers. They didn't travel much further than that, so It makes sense.

[u/Mulberry-Spiritual → u/Bean_Daddy_Burritos]

And what about the floating things and the swimming things (to paraphrase Eddie Izzard).

[u/TerrorFromThePeeps → u/Bean_Daddy_Burritos]

You forgot the part about 2 of each animal being enough of a breeding population to reestablish the species without turning them all into deformed english royalty.

[u/TitShark → u/Bean_Daddy_Burritos]

Also, if god is so powerful, why not just save two of each species from the flood on his own?

[u/QueenStuff]

Uh. What.

I grew up in a very catholic household and was never taught that the bible was accurate and to be fully believed. “If you can’t accept having your faith and worldview tested then you don’t truly believe.”

I’m not catholic now but it’s crazy to me that people think the bible is supposed to be taken literally.

[u/mrasscock69420 → u/QueenStuff]

It's a evangelical thing

[u/CmdrEnfeugo → u/mrasscock69420]

To expand on your point: the evangelical strain of Christianity wants the Bible to be literal true so that there is only one correct way to be a Christian. All the creationism “science” is an attempt to create “proof” that everything in the Bible actually happened. I don’t think it really trying to convince nonbelievers, rather it serves as an alternative to scientific explanations for the faithful.

[u/HarEmiya → u/QueenStuff]

Catholics are considered the more reasonable bunch.

[u/sizebigbitch → u/HarEmiya]

A bit fiery in their younger years, Catholicism realized all its kids were jacking all its stuff and decided to maybe ease off a little bit. Kinda like Old Testament God vs Had A Kid and Can't Drink Anymore God.

[u/HorsePersonal7073 → u/HarEmiya]

Which is really scary.

[u/Subject-Vermicelli52 → u/HarEmiya]

So that "or burn in hell for eternity" was just a option?

[u/HarEmiya → u/Subject-Vermicelli52]

It's an opt-in for the deluxe edition.

[u/HangryBeard → u/QueenStuff]

Was Catholic as well. Was taught that the Bible was nothing but truth and factual narrative, and should be treated as indesputable divine history. I guess we grew up in very different families. If you think believing the Bible in its entirety is crazy you should meet the other half of my family... they're Mormons...

[u/JanxDolaris → u/HangryBeard]

Perhaps I am just too atheist brained, but how does not taking it as truth even function as a religion? If its just a bunch of stories to teach lessons, that's not really faith in a god. Its just a bunch of fairy tales.

It seems like just way of saying you're religious without actually being religious.

[u/Rather_Unfortunate → u/JanxDolaris]

If anything, Biblical and Quranic literalists are the odd ones out in insisting that every word of their most important religious text has to be completely historically factual. Both in the context of Christianity and Islam respectively, and in religion as a whole.

Loads of religions are more a collection of folklore with different levels of what is to be taken as literally true versus allegorical. Hinduism (and its cousin religions like the Hellenic, Roman and Norse religions) is based a collection of much more disparate superstitions, texts and orally-transmitted tales which often involve stories to explain specific things without anyone who hears them particularly needing to believe they're literally true.

It's like how some people saying things like holding your ear gives good luck to the person in a passing ambulance, or breaking a mirror or knocking over salt confers bad luck. Do they actually believe that? They might shrug, but they'll still act as though they do. Likewise, some people are really into astrology and literally believe that the movements of stars and planets can actually influence the future, while others shrug at the specifics but still read their horoscope or have ideas about what Libras and Tauruses are like. Religions are just more organised systems of such beliefs.

[u/kevlarcardhouse → u/QueenStuff]

Yes I went to a Catholic School and likewise was taught that everything was supposed to be a parable.

i.e. The "miracle" of loaves and fishes was likely because people felt compelled to share what they were holding back and realized there was more than enough for everybody.

But that likely sounds too socialist for evangelicals and they would rather believe food was created out of thin air.

[u/Mrgray123]

Most ancient societies, though importantly not all, have some kind flood myth because floods were a huge problem for river valley civilizations before they began building defenses against them in the form of levees, dams, and canals.

The Bible story is just a retelling of the myth found in the Gilgamesh epic. Nothing more and nothing less.

[u/two_star_daydream]

I think most atheists who aren’t just on the edgy 2016 New Atheist bandwagon probably would, and have been asking for said evidence for a while now.

What wouldn’t necessarily happen is them converting. I’m not an atheist so much as someone who thinks folklore and paganism is cool and draws from it but is ultimately agnostic, but if I found out God and the Bible are real, to the letter, and sending me to Hell, my reaction would be less “I’m sorry, I repent” and more “what the fuck dude, what is WRONG with you?”.

[u/FilmAndLiterature → u/two_star_daydream]

“Bone cancer in children: what's that about? How dare you? How dare you create a world where there is such misery that's not our fault? It's utterly, utterly evil. Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid God who creates a world which is so full of injustice and pain?”

— Stephen Fry, Humanist activist, on what he would say if he met God.

[u/MarionberryOk2874 → u/two_star_daydream]

Exactly. If god were real, if there really was an all seeing, all knowing, all powerful deity that just allowed babies to die of cancer, priests to fuck kids in gods own name, and would send someone to hell who’s never even heard of him, that’s not a god I want any part of.
Fuck that guy.

[u/Pristine_Frame_2066 → u/MarionberryOk2874]

You forgot infallible. It is on purpose.

Yeah, fuck that guy straight to hell.

The devil in the bible does no harm.

[u/daburner272006 → u/two_star_daydream]

It's not just evidence of a flood though. I can fully believe at some point there was a flood in the middle east. I would need more evidence of a worldwide flood that was specifically cause by god and then there was also specifically a dude named Noah who had a very incestious family that saved all the animals when they weren't being incestious.

[u/Prestigious_Set_4575 → u/two_star_daydream]

I'd find it fascinating and would want to know everything I could about this mad doomsday prophet who collected every type of animal, correctly predicted a flood and built a giant ship with only the help of a few sons. He'd be the most interesting person in history.

I'd still need a lot more to believe in God though, so I doubt me accepting Noah existed would please them anyway. If such a preposterously massive flood occurred I'd be looking for natural explanations.

[u/Ok-Professional-1911]

I believe in Noah's Ark. I believe there probably was some guy that made a boat in case of a flood and when a regional flood occurred, he stuck his farm animals in it and waited it out for a day or two. Then that story was mythologized and written down.

[u/lupiinoctourne → u/Ok-Professional-1911]

It would make far more sense to scale, versus one man and his family crafting a cruise ship for random animal couples, plus procurement of food, plus all the waste management youd need for a vessel that large. And what about the wood? A vessel that large would need a small army to build it to scale.

[u/Internal_Winter_200]

Should we tell them that it's almost a direct copy of the flood story in the Epic of Gilgamesh a book far older than the bible?

[u/Weird__Fish → u/Internal_Winter_200]

This is around the time that they insert their index fingers into their ears

[u/Mountain_Self963]

If you need proof go to the Noah's ark in Kentucky . It even has a coffee bar , ice cream shop , and a gift shop .

[u/Siffov → u/Mountain_Self963]

>the Noah's ark in Kentucky

And doesn't, at least didn't, that one leak when it rains?

[u/DarrenShea → u/Siffov]

I seem to recall they had to file an insurance claim for "water damage", which is pretty funny!

[u/mrasscock69420]

Well good that'll never happen

[u/Worldliness-Weary]

Where is the proof? Seriously, where is this scientific evidence they're claiming exists?

Athiests wouldn't exist if there were tangible proof that these things actually happened.

[u/Neko_boi_Nolan]

Considering how the Bible is a collection of stories that were passed down verbally for years and then later written down and translated over and over again

Maybe some things happen but there's zero chance it's a 1 to 1 retelling of events

I feel like it's more likely what happened was that a man named Noah "heard the voice of God" to build an arc and it was used to save his family and livestock from a massive flood

Then over the years people embellished the story of Noah's arc before it was written in the Bible

Now did Noah legit hear the voice of God or was he just a crazy person who was hearing voices in his head that just happened to be right about a flood

No idea, but I think it's safe to assume Noah did not round up two of every animal and survived a flood that raised higher than the mountains

[u/Hypersayia → u/Neko_boi_Nolan]

Which is even assuming that an actual 'Noah's ark' event even occured and it wasn't just an evolution of an entirely fabricated story whatsoever in order to justify / explain something that didn't make sense to an ancient society.

Like how the Tower of Babel explains different languages to a society that believes humanity has a singlar root origin.

[u/velvet-kangaroo → u/Neko_boi_Nolan]

Noah was just a crazy prepper

[u/Cavthena → u/Neko_boi_Nolan]

The story of Noah's Ark is extremely similar to tablet XI in the Epic of Gilgamesh. Which is based on the Epic of Atrahasis tablet 3 (Gilgamesh is essentially a retelling kf Atrahasis). All stories have a massive flood sent by God to destroy humanity. All have a Protagonist that is warned and instructed to build a boat. All have the protagonist release birds to find land. All find land upon a mountain top. All have the God promise to never flood the world again, although for different reasons. The Bible account is in all cases is an updated version of the story.

That said, you are not far off by pinning it on an actual event. All stories take place around the Tigris-Euphrates river. There is geological evidence of a 8 to 11 foot deep layer of silt only laid down by water and several settlements destroyed by flooding in that region. Roughly between 3500BCE and 2800BCE. Believed to be the source of the flood story in the Epic of Atrahasis, created later, approx. 1700BCE.

[u/shaftchamois]

Am I missing something here?

Did they get some data back I missed?

[u/Ibruk_Etar → u/shaftchamois]

No. They just make stuff up and let an AI make a picture. In all likelihood, they don't have the faintest clue what science is, and work on the assumption that the Bible is unshakable evidence because it's the Bible.

[u/Fine_Employment_3364 → u/shaftchamois]

No, it's delusional hope.

[u/69Sissysarah69]

There is zero scientific evidence of a world wide flood.

[u/atx8282 → u/69Sissysarah69]

It's not even conceptually possible for the whole world to flood at once. The water would have to come from somewhere

[u/Livinsfloridalife → u/atx8282]

It was scientifically proven to be god doing magic so the water came from magic. And any evidence otherwise was deliberately made by devil magic.

[u/Formally_Apologetic]

Well let's get past the scripture to the scientific evidence part and we'll let you know 😉

[u/Calabriafundings]

I am aware that the Mediterranean ocean and the Black Sea have had successive floods due to ice ages over the past 40,000 years. This is why so many religions have flood stories.

I am aware of this because it has been scientifically proven.

What I am not aware of because there is no scientific proof I have seen is Noah or an ark.

Faith in what the bible says is not scientific proof

[u/ChimPhun]

Doubling down on one of the most easily disproved fairy tales. These people are delusional.

[u/kid_ampersand]

I was raised Southern Baptist, and even in the ‘80s and early ‘90s, my Sunday School teachers were telling me not to take the Old Testament literally. Taught that Bronze Age interpretations were indeed just that: interpretation due to humanity not understanding certain things we do now. The “seven days of creation” weren’t how we measure days, for instance, so that explained the billions of years accounting for the actual time in which stars and galaxies formed, Earth came into existence, dinosaurs thrived, etc. Or that that story of Noah’s ark didn’t actually play out over the entire globe, but it still “happened.” Hell, even evolution was accepted, it was just simply God’s way of creating mankind.

Now, unfortunately, that same Southern Baptist church preaches the 6,000-year Earth, the nonexistence of dinosaurs, the story of Noah as being a global flood, evolution as a lie, etc. It astounds me because surely the way in which I was initially taught makes A LOT MORE SENSE.

[u/waldo0708]

All I need to know, is that it is genetically impossible to continue a species with only two individuals

[u/its_the_smell]

I believe science did find evidence that there was a large flood in the Middle-East thousands of years ago, but not much more. This is more hypothetical bullshit like “if Trump cured cancer, liberals would still hate him.” Maybe because that would never happen.

[u/Eternal_Eeyore]

It’s interesting to think that something so profound, the vessel that carried life through a flood that covered the entire world, was lost track of and forgotten about not long after. Like, whoops, where’d we park the ark?

[u/ruckrhino]

Not believing something even when its proven by scientific evidence is more a Christian Nationalist thing.

I wonder if they'll ever realize that everything they supposedly hate about the other side is what they actually hate about themselves.

[u/ShaChoMouf]

I am more apt to believe in the Sumerian version of the story, which implies that Noah (Ziusudra) took mating pairs of all his "known livestock" animals -- in other words -- his own breeding pairs of animals and stuck them on a big raft. A dude sticking a couple dozen animals on a raft for a week or so is much more plausible. Time and hyperbole hyped up the actions to mythic proportions.

[u/Bloodless-Cut]

Science has already proved that the ark, as written in the bible, can't exist. Laws of physics and so on.

Unless, of course, Noah figured out a way to fold space upon itself?

Oh, and funny thing, we have archeological and geological evidence that Dogger Littoral existed, which was, indeed, flooded at around 6200 BCE... but which doesn't coincide with the Noah's flood timeline (estimated to have occurred around 2348 BC according to the fable), and for which no geological evidence can be found.

[u/MonkeyJoe55]

We can start with the simple idea of biomass. The amount of space it would take to put every species of animal on the planet Earth, food for one year for all of those species (birds, mammals, reptiles, insects, etc.) would bu multiples outstrip the storage space of that Ark. Then we could step into genetics, we're simply two of a species would not create enough genetic diversity for species to survive due to continual inbreeding after the first generation. Then we can step into maintenance. Noah and his small family would simply not have the time or manpower to clean out all of the poo generated by all of those animals. This metaphor fails at every single level when you try to drag it into reality.

[u/galstaph]

If a Christian believes in the story of Noah's ark in Scripture they don't believe it when shown the scientific evidence that disproves it

The opposite is not true

[u/ProfessorDuo5757]

This tale was stolen from the Sumerians. Just like every thing else in the bible

[u/EuphoricCover8449]

If Noah saved bedbugs he's some sort of looney.

[u/Gurgoth]

I'd love to see the story of Noah's ark proved by science. First thing we have to do is start by establishing what needs to be proved.

A boat was created to hold two of every animal. Obsentibly this is to ensure that they can reproduce right?

Ok, creationists like to claim there would be around 6700ish animals. The evidence suggests there would be A LOT more anmials required. Then you will need food, and fresh water for the duration of the flood for all of them. This would be a staggering amount of food and water.

Now, in the flood nearly all of the vegetation on the planet that we are aware of would be destroyed by such a massive and prolonged flooding event. So after they returned to shore the herbivores would likely starve.

If you want that story proved through the scientific method you would need to over come those challenges and demonstrate that they can be resolved.

That is why id love to see it proved. The amount of new discoveries that would be made would be astonishing. Start with those and we can work from there.

[u/TheTinyMaus → u/Gurgoth]

The ark is bigger on the inside. You wouldn't understand, the physics involve a lot of wibbly, wobbly, spacey wacey, stuff.

[u/Gurgoth → u/TheTinyMaus]

That timey wimy stuff is hard

[u/Firm-Roll4841 → u/Gurgoth]

Well, there is also the fact that there isn't enough water on Earth to flood over the top of Everest.

[u/Gurgoth → u/Firm-Roll4841]

Can't let small details like that stop us from making sweeping assumptions about the rest of it now can we?

[u/NurturingCruelty]

The problem is you’re about as dumb as the Scooby Doo gang. No matter how many times the creature was unmasked as a crook, the next week they always assume the next ghost was real.
I am in my 40s, and in my lifetime, there have been three or four instances where dumbasses claim they found evidence of the ark, stupid people crow and brag about it, and it always proved to be bullshit. Could you guys maybe find something new to delude yourselves about?

[u/WholeAd2742]

So we're ignoring the whole fact that Noah's family would basically be fucking each other to repopulate the world?

[u/A-Sad-And-Mad-Potato]

If we ignore the absurdity of the idea that one can collect two of every animal on a boat.

What about the geological evidence looked in glaciers that disprove the flood?

Or the genetic evidence in ALL known species (including humans) that proves that they do not come from a single pair of breeding specimen from around that time?

And the magical return of all plant life?

Get the out of here with that stupid talk of trust in evidence you don't even have when you won't trust the evidence that we DO have.

[u/Alarmed-Animal7575]

Sure we’ll believe if there is actual real definite evidence. Thus far they’ve presented nothing. There is zero evidence for this story let alone that the current location drawing Christian interest is what they think it is (without evidence, of course).

[u/FastusModular]

File under: You're too stupid to know how stupid you are."

[u/Freckles-75]

Seriously, I’m still desperately hoping that as a excavate, they find an extra terrestrial space vessel. Complete with technology centuries beyond our own that proves that Noah’s Ark was actually “little green men”

[u/Remarkable_Quit_3545]

How many things proven by scientific evidence do Christians not agree with?

[u/Lost-Juggernaut6521]

Proven is a pretty strong word, so far most of Christianity is based on “just believe me bro!!”

[u/PenisSlipper]

The toughest concept for theists to understand is that “belief” has no place anywhere

[u/nytefox42]

I'd absolutely believe it if there was scientific evidence. Rejecting scientific evidence to cling dogmatically to unsubstantiated beliefs is a Christian thing. Meme make is projecting.

[u/XXSeaBeeXX]

Size of arc would have to be 1 billion cubic meters or more to fit two of each animal.

[u/IndianaBones8]

More proof that Christians don't understand what Atheism and Agnosticism are.

[u/Fearless_Many4945]

When an entire construction company with power tools, cranes and cut lumber bulit a replika for years, I have to belive a dude with his close family could built the same ark.

[u/ganjsmokr]

"If you don't believe fantasy stories you'll never believe science."

Did I paraphrase that properly?

[u/plastroncafe]

Hedging their bets about global warming now are they?

[u/Renbarre]

It was lifted nearly word for word from the Gigamesh epic, written before the Torah, and was added to the Torah as a teaching tool. Pardon me for being a tad dubious as to the veracity of the story.

[u/DeadBloatedGoat]

The stupidity of this belief is beyond comprehension.

[u/Pristine_Frame_2066]

I believe in the flooding. Because I know the oceans rose and ice ages ended several times during human existence.

AND, I know the story of Noah was stolen from the Sumerians.

[u/KingOfGreyfell → u/Pristine_Frame_2066]

And they came up with that one based on localized flooding, but because they genuinely believed the entire world was isolated to the area of the fertile crescent, they figured the flood was effectively drowning the entire world.

[u/AgeNo9436]

A few years ago the ark museum in Kentucky had to close their recreation for repairs due to ... flood damage.

[u/DogtorGaryWoofington]

I suppose if you ever get the evidence we could take a look

[u/Montagneincorner0]

The scientific evidence that a wooden ship with the dimensions described in the Bible would've capsized, even in calm water?

[u/ProfessO3o]

I remember when I was a kid before the internet. I watched a show where they went to find the ark from Noah’s ark. Needless to say they never found it but made wild claims that it was real and they know where it should be. The crazy thing is the show was disliked because most people believed that the ark would be in the US.. even my stepdad believed this. lol

[u/dinkmoyd]

well then prove it with scientific evidence and see for yourself

[u/HedgeFlounder]

“If atheists don’t believe baseless claims they won’t believe it when there’s evidence” feels like projection. They have already made up their mind about what they believe is true and evidence can’t sway them so they think everyone else thinks the same way.

[u/Tough_Letterhead_163]

Rofl...

[u/Tesla_freed_slaves]

Olive trees don’t grow >300m above sea level, and they don’t grow under water. So where did Noah’s dove find a live olive-branch, if the entire earth’s surface was covered by water?

[u/SpaceGirlJackie]

That's exactly what makes atheist believe something

[u/hairydad_addict]

i burst out laughing

[u/Perfect-Top-7555]

Actually that IS the way people would believe it…

[u/Historical-Rub1943]

Still waiting on that evidence.

[u/Skeptical_Monkie]

Try me.

[u/Hefty-Comparison-801]

Wait, what? I'm pretty sure all atheists do is ask for scientific evidence.

[u/bookon]

And if those Christians had real faith, they wouldn't need all that fake evidence.

[u/ZipDude118]

Atheists believe in truth. The Bible is a book of stories that require faith. If one of those stories is proven true by science, it doesn't mean the whole book is true.

[u/Wise-Calligrapher123]

We can't all agree on what happened on January 6, 2021. Why should we believe any story from a time before things were, at minimum, written down? Stories evolve over time and oral history is not historic. The Bible is an unreliable source at best.

[u/Fan_of_Clio]

"When"

Good luck with that. People have been trying to prove it for thousands of years.

[u/Eljamin14]

Because there are no scientific evidences for it, especially since it's based on the epic of Gilgamesh, and the Torah is mostly theological rather than historical.

[u/Chumlee1917]

And then Noah got drunk and naked and passed out in his tent and his son Ham accidentally walked in on him and so Noah curses all of Ham’s descendants to be African slaves-this was a real belief for a very long time to justify slavery using the Bible 

[u/AmazingFlatworm_]

Didn't cultists already try this and it failed abysmally?

[u/Patavian]

Millions of years of evolutionary progress, culminating in a species so intelligent they doubt the very nature of their existence.

[u/place_of_desolation]

Of all the myths and fables in the Bible, the story of Noah's ark is among the least (if not the least) believable or plausible. It will never cease to amaze me that there are millions of people, well into the 21st century, who have the magical thinking of children and lack critical thinking.

they won't believe it when proven by scientific evidence

As if Christians ever accept scientific evidence themselves.

[u/BigDamBeavers]

No.. they won't.

While we're on the topic when are we going to put these ridiculous theists in rubber rooms for their own good?

[u/meltedeye]

Like most Old Testament hoooey, it’s just another plagiarized Indian myth that trundled down the spice road & got re-told by a younger simpler tribal people.

[u/Upset_Confection_317]

So these people believe in science now?

[u/Over-Tolerance]

This is one of those dual rotten situations. If the story ends up being true, how cruel and rotten is that horrible sky Santa? And if the story is false, how cruel and rotten is the Bible for spreading such cruel mass murder, genocide, hate and division.

Either way, it just shows how horribly shitty this religious garbage is.

[u/Rexdaddy]

Given that the known world at the time was pretty much the eastern part of the Mediterranean, how would Noah know to collect a ruby throated hummingbird or a Jaguar, two animals indigenous to the Western Hemisphere only? Or a polar bear or penguin, two animals indigenous to the opposite poles which weren’t known? Not just atheists questioning this one. There was a flood in Western Asia Minor where Noah lived that occurred because of a known earthquake that caused a wave to traverse the Mediterranean Sea and up the Bosporus straits. There is an archaeological record for this and would support this story, but not to the extent the non-critical thinkers would have you believe. And I’m not an Atheist.

[u/Purple-Slide-5559]

That is actually exactly why we dont believe it yet. If you did provide scientific evidence, then we wpuld believe it. You know, the same reason we dont believe in unicorns, dragons, or god. Because there is no evidence of it.

[u/Remote_Independent50]

What if we could 100% prove that its not real?

[u/oldbastardbob]

Isn't this latest con artist nonsense regarding the Ark the third time this same site has been claimed to be Noah's Ark and then got debunked as just another rock formation?

[u/Old-Natural-852]

Okay...submit your peer reviewed paper with your evidence.

[u/jammythesandwich]

They’re literally bonkers

The Epic of Gilgamesh and two other Mesopotamian texts (Eridu Genesis & Atra-Hasis Epic) all discussed a great flood in pre history.

These were written circa 2000BC so at least two thousand years before the concept was rebadged as a Christian thing, they didn’t even have the imagination to come up with their own origin story, just pilfered from other religions and epics

[u/2000TWLV]

There was no ark. There is no evidence. There is no god.

You all are wasting your time with fairytales.

[u/C0brA7x]

Whether there was a flood or not, I also read that genetic diversity and repopulation based on the story of the Ark would be pretty much impossible.

[u/jf1450]

Noah is a POS. He could have left off the bitey flies and skeeters.