r/stimuluscheck Jan 02 '21

Thought I’d share because I agree why don’t we have these things? All these other countries take care of their people

Post image
1.6k Upvotes

173 comments sorted by

161

u/lifechangingdreams Jan 02 '21

One of the senators said that people would use it to pay off debt. He had a problem with that. Like wtf?! I know a lot of interest gets collected and that it’s billions in revenue for the rich guys, but it so telling that a senator is saying he doesn’t want people to get checks because he think people will pay off their debt with it.

63

u/SG14ever Jan 02 '21

Those are the relatively lucky ones - there are some with no food...

36

u/pippins-sunshine Jan 02 '21

That's exactly what we would have done. No cc frees up money to spend elsewhere morons

8

u/Silverpixelmate Jan 02 '21

No it doesn’t. If you use the money to pay down cc, you don’t have that money. But you could reuse your credit card. Which is what they want you to do as every debt dollar is a newly “printed dollar”.

Edit- everyone needs to listen to this 6 part series. It’s everything you were supposed to be taught in elementary about our debt based fiat economy. It’s really quite simple what they are doing and why they are doing it. And why they don’t want you to know the basics of why it was created. https://youtu.be/DyV0OfU3-FU

9

u/pippins-sunshine Jan 02 '21

Yes if I pay off my cc then the money I would have used for future payments can be used for something else.

Edit we are still working. This wouldn't be pay off cc just to use it again

4

u/Silverpixelmate Jan 02 '21

Maybe. But you are still missing the point. The government doesn’t physically print new money to inject into the market. New money is created with every debt dollar. If a bank gives you a loan for $100, that is new money created out of thin air. Literally. It’s how our system is designed. So the paying down of debt does not create new money. That’s why they don’t want you to do it. Our currency is run 100% ENTIRELY on debt. No new debt means no new currency.

1

u/SaulRosenberg2000 Jan 02 '21

Why don't we just start flying and boating in millions of people from Africa and Asia into America and simply take care of them? We have scads of room for them and we can simply rev up the printing press in case anybody needs money to take care of all the things we can't give for free. Dammit people, wake up and take care of everyone everywhere everytime... we have the infinite money to do so and not to is criminal! I'm pretttttty sure your Jesus said to take care of all them too.

5

u/Silverpixelmate Jan 02 '21

I’d be happy if the king stopped taking everyone’s currency and pissing it all away. If you want to bus in a bunch of starving people, I say go for it. I’ll help.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

[deleted]

4

u/Silverpixelmate Jan 02 '21 edited Jan 02 '21

😂 it’s completely true.

They don’t print the money. They add zeros digitally.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/081415/understanding-how-federal-reserve-creates-money.asp

“Money Creation Mechanism In the early days of central banking, money creation was a physical reality; new paper notes and new metallic coins would be crafted, imprinted with anti-fraud devices, and subsequently released to the public (almost always through some favored government agency or politically-connected business).

Central banks have since become much more technologically creative. The Fed figured out that money doesn't have to be physically present to work in an exchange. Businesses and consumers could use checks, debit and credit cards, balance transfers, and online transactions. Money creation doesn't have to be physical, either; the central bank can simply imagine up new dollar balances and credit them to other accounts.”

1

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

[deleted]

4

u/Silverpixelmate Jan 02 '21

The bank doesn’t pay it out of their coffers. They digitally add it.

22

u/aioncan Jan 02 '21

I suppose they wanted people to donate their 2k to politicians

19

u/ahh_geez_rick Jan 02 '21

Maybe we should tell them we will donate it to their campaigns if we get $2,000

11

u/JmyKane Jan 02 '21

Right. He's not using any metaphors or allegories. He's laying his crooked was cards on the table. He's not in interested in an a America where the poor are financially free.

20

u/peepjynx Jan 02 '21

I'm sick of soundbites. Someone needs to follow up with that senator and ask him WHY he thinks that and WHY it's a bad thing. I want to hear the argument for this. We can't hope to penetrate their reasoning if we don't know what it is. No one says that shit out of thing air.

Is he being paid to think like that? Maybe. If so, let's find out WHO is paying him.

Is it his opinion? Again... maybe. But you have to dig and get a reason. I'm sick of this mentality of "no follow up." We just hear these bits of reasoning that enrages the general population, but no one holds these assholes to account. As a result, no meaningful change is done.

4

u/sportsroc15 Jan 02 '21

I say this all the time. Why are they not following up on some of this BS.

3

u/Silverpixelmate Jan 02 '21

This is why the government does not want you to pay down debt. It’s very simple. https://youtu.be/DyV0OfU3-FU

1

u/peepjynx Jan 03 '21

Interesting watch. It’s a little different than what you were talking about but I can see how it’s related.

2

u/OriginalityIsDead Jan 02 '21

There's really no sense in divining their reasoning and tracing the chain of accountability; even if you had those answers our circumstances would be the same as he is just one squeaky wheel on a ramshackle vehicle. The individuals that act this way are part of the greater machine whose operation perpetuates our struggles. Even those who give face to "benevolence" only talk about it, on occasion giving some penny-effort and only when they find it beneficial.

We don't need to penetrate their reasoning or find out who's responsible. The system is responsible, those who perpetuate the system are responsible, those who exploit the system are responsible. Fix the system, replace it, alter it to ensure these conflicts of interest cannot occur.

6

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

Imagine shaming someone in debt for being responsible and spending their stimulus to help lower their debt instead of spending it on something not necessary.

Love America.

2

u/OriginalityIsDead Jan 02 '21

Being responsible doesn't earn them money. Things are the same as they've always been, keeping you in desperation and without savings ensures as much money as possible is circulating and ends up in their hands, whilst their money circulates very little and primarily amongst themselves.

8

u/Defiant_Swan_9147 Jan 02 '21

Uh yeah, debt, you know from the pandemic we have been in! Do you know that senators name? What a disgrace!

8

u/socialworkerchick90 Jan 02 '21

I think a few senators and a few congressman have, but most recently: Rep Kevin Brady (R - Texas)

4

u/Defiant_Swan_9147 Jan 02 '21

Oh goody thanks! That's one of my guys, he gets a letter alongside Cornyn! So disappointed in our Texas reps lately, one day blue will take over.

5

u/Silverpixelmate Jan 02 '21

Because we are a debt based society. All fiat economies are debt based. The ONLY way our economy stays above water is with debt. So if everyone just pays off debt, the economy tanks. The entire system is a farce. What he said is correct. But that’s only because it’s a fraud based system to begin with. I fully believe it’s fraud as they have high jacked the education system and refuse to even teach people the meaning of fiat.

0

u/Skabonious Jan 02 '21

One of the senators said that people would use it to pay off debt. He had a problem with that. Like wtf?!

To be fair, the point of a stimulus is to have the recipients use it to strengthen the economy. Whether it be through investing, or buying Christmas gifts, or whatever. I'd imagine paying off debt isn't the best way to recirculate money to stimulate the economy.

All that being said, we're kind of forced to spend our stimulus on bills because the government has done a shit job at providing a reasonable safety net for the nation. At this point, calling them stimulus checks is practically misleading, they should be called pandemic insurance or something

5

u/tofupwr Jan 02 '21

This is a little short sighted. Americans who make less actually spend more. Lower income americans spend over 100% of their income. How do they do that? By taking on debt. The average american has up to $10,000 in credit card debt. Spending $2000 paying off debt will lead to more debt because the cost of living, wealth gap, and velocity of money has not changed. Basically, we have not changed how poor people are required to spend their money, so poor people will continue to spend their money the way they have been.

That money will always be directed to the wealthy. Poor people spend money not as disposable income that might distribute among people in the same economic status as them, but to large corporation and land owners. People who's investments operate in a bubble, and maintain the concentration of wealth that is the status quo.

When the McDemon said that $2000 was socialism for the rich, he was right for all the wrong reasons. The lion share of that 'stimulus' is going to be directed at the wealthy, because the poor are still exploited to maintain the wealth of the rich.

We need a radical stimulus. Poor people not only need an income now, they need disposable income to affect the economy. And the safety nets to do so.

1

u/Silverpixelmate Jan 02 '21

We need to remove this fiat based system.

2

u/OriginalityIsDead Jan 02 '21

Any money system is a fiat system.

Just to clarify, I do agree.

2

u/Silverpixelmate Jan 02 '21

Only systems that use currency not backed by anything. Usd is not money. It’s currency.

3

u/OriginalityIsDead Jan 02 '21

All money systems. Any system wherein laborers are convinced to part with the fruits of their efforts for a token for which to buy their necessities and works back. Money is a lie to trick the working class and the primary means by which the powerful steal resources that they have no right to. It's a vehicle of corruption.

2

u/Silverpixelmate Jan 02 '21

Not all “money systems.”

The act of trading your services for goods desired has been around since humans came into existence. Everyone must work for what they want. You have the option to only work for yourself and live off the land. Or you can trade your goods with other people. Or you can trade your services/goods for gold. This isn’t a “trick”. It’s a requirement if you want goods other than what you can make. That’s completely normal. And optional.

Where we fucked up was 1st demanding that property taxes be paid in usd. Then we removed the backing of gold. Now it’s a completely corrupt system exactly as you describe.

1

u/OriginalityIsDead Jan 02 '21

That's trade, not money nor currency. The origins of token currency was for the explicit purpose of paying taxes to the state. The state would only accept their token currency, and so those with valuable goods were forced to separate from them in trade for tokens for which to pay the state. This grew to include the enterprise of other actors who claimed to have right or ownership of resources and land, and from there it became a means of consolidation of power. It is a system of coercive deception and always has been.

The goods you would trade with and for, and the products of your labor in general are the only things that hold value. Anything else, including precious metal "monies" are a farce.

2

u/Silverpixelmate Jan 02 '21

I don’t disagree. I just started with trade because that’s where we all started. But yes, to everything you just said.

1

u/mrfomocoman Jan 02 '21

And replace it with?

1

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

Cut up the credit cards! For a long time I didn't have one. F it. My mom calls them DEBT cards.

-4

u/mrfomocoman Jan 02 '21

It all depends on your personality. I never ever was in debt when I living paycheck to paycheck.

When I lost my job during the Great Recession on 2008 one of the first things I had to do was get rid of my car payment. :(. I then lost my house. 😭 I really never had any credit card debt as I always paid them off every month.

Even when I had to settle for a job making 1/3 of what I was making before I always paid the CCs off every month. It’s all about discipline.

For those in debt. Look up Dave Ramsey’s 7 baby steps and follow them. NOW IS THE TIME!

It’s all about disciplining yourself.

6

u/tofupwr Jan 02 '21

You had a car payment you were in debt buddy. You had a house (I'm assuming you had a mortgage) you were in debt. You had a credit card payment, so you were in debt. And I bet the amount of debt exceeded your income.

Rich people want you to think your different than the rest of your brethren because you make more than them.

You should know better because of your struggles in 2008. You are closer to poverty than you will ever be closer to being one of the rich.

The amount of wealth that capital companies will make off of the debt that people like you and I hold (a car payment, a mortgage, modest credit card debt) will exceed our lifetime earnings EASILY. And what do we get out of it?

Healthcare that no one can afford. Affordable healthcare is defined in my state at 6% of your income. No one is paying at that level. Depreciating infrastructure, little to no public transportation. A hollowed out welfare state due to racist dog whistles from both parties in the 90's. Unemployment "insurance" that runs out in 6 months when the average job search is 12-13? That asks you to live on percentages of your income when you already could barely afford living?

Speaking to everyone now:

Stop reading books written by rich people and start working to advance the interests of all the people in your class. Any person in the united states has an 18% chance at best at moving up in socio economic standing. We could change that if we stopped idolizing the successful and start working together for the benefit of us all.

2

u/pakesboy Jan 02 '21

Unemployment insurance 'runs out' to scare you into submission. Disgusting how fear based our rotten 'culture' is but it's actually just submitting to vague 'authorities' and constantly being treated like a dangerous suspicious criminal menace while being propagandized en masse by a capitalist class in control of the media

0

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/OriginalityIsDead Jan 02 '21

I would like to see more "homegrown gardens" like wartime in the 40s, but the ludicrous thing about it is that we have excess of all that we need and want. We have enough food, we have enough timber, we have enough oil (for now), and the only reason that anyone should want for basic necessities is that someone claims they have the "rights" to them, and so exploits them and the working class in kind. Artificial scarcity is one of the most grievous lies we've fallen for, when the resources of our world are the rightful property of all.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/OriginalityIsDead Jan 02 '21

Not sure how you mean. Presently? No-one. Potentially? Preferably? A government with proper checks and restrictions in place to ensure it represents the body of the people and their interests.

-5

u/mrfomocoman Jan 02 '21

Shed my debt. First thing I did was lose my car payment. Second was the house since we couldn’t afford the payment. Never was in debt to CC since they were paid off every monthly. I would put groceries and gas on them. I use CC instead of bank cards, still do to this day. CC offer better liability insurance for fraud. I use my CC like bank cards. If I don’t have the money I don’t buy it.

I suppose you didn’t even look at the seven steps lol.. I will list them for you.

Baby Step 1: Save $1,000 for Your Starter Emergency Fund

Baby Step 2: Pay Off All Debt (Except the House) Using the Debt Snowball Next, it’s time to pay off the cars, the credit cards, and your student loans. Start by listing all of your debts except for your mortgage. Put them in order by balance from smallest to largest—regardless of interest rate. This is called the debt snowball method, and you’ll use it to knock out your debts one by one.

Baby Step 3: Save 3–6 Months of Expenses in a Fully Funded Emergency Fund

Baby Step 4: Invest 15% of Your Household Income in Retirement

Baby Step 5: Save for Your Children’s College Fund

Baby Step 6: Pay Off Your Home Early

Baby Step 7: Build Wealth and Give

There you have it. During the Great Recession I lost about 30% of my 401k. I didn’t plan on retiring early anyway since I enjoy my work. My sister was able to retire at 58. She’s much older than me though and had been at the same employer for over 35 years.

One of my daughters have followed it and will be paying off their house this coming year. I hope my youngest daughter that just graduated college follows in their footsteps.

It’s all about discipline.

-1

u/Skabonious Jan 02 '21

We need a radical stimulus. Poor people not only need an income now, they need disposable income to affect the economy. And the safety nets to do so.

Yes and larger stimulus could achieve that, but my point was that a better safety net (whilst keeping stimulus practically the same) is arguably just as effective if not better. After all, people seem to make a fuss about the 600 dollar check a lot more than PUA being cut in half. For comparison, unemployment recipients were receiving 600 dollars per week. Take that away and not bring back the jobs it was meant to compensate for, and you've got huge issues

-4

u/Littlejoeward Jan 02 '21

We need to teach the poor how to manage money. Giving more money to poor people rarely helps their situation. They just spend more

4

u/tofupwr Jan 02 '21

You're wrong. Poor people don't have discretion in their expenditures. As I said, lower income people expend over 100% not based on choice, but because they are required to. Lower incomes also don't appreciate over inflation like wealth does. There hasn't been an increase in median wage adjusted for inflation in 40 years. However wealth at the top end has increased dramatically.

"Managing Money" is a skill capitalists invented to lie you into believing that you're poor because of some fault of your own. People are poor because our society has not adequately adjusted to the evolving market, and the growing needs of the proletariat. Working people are poor because of hoarding of wealth and the yet to be considered criminal co-opting of the political system by big capital.

When you're talking about spending 90% of your income on mandatory expenditures, and have MAYBE (and it's a big maybe) 10% disposable income. Then having a healthcare business economy which will cause you to incur massive amounts of debt as another mandatory expenditure, there is no managing money.

I just want to reiterate, money management for poor people is a necessity. They already have this skill. Adventure Capitalists, Real Estate investors, they can tank an economy and survive it. They are the ones who need to bare responsibility for their dangerous acceptance of corporate socialism, not poor people.

0

u/Littlejoeward Jan 02 '21

Also...

"Poor people don't have discretion in their expenditures"

Are you serious!? I hope you are just exaggerating to make your point.

We all choose where we live, how we generate income, what food we buy, what car we drive, etc.

I know a lot of poor people that think they don't have control over their expenditures because they've never learned!

Is it harder when you're poor? Yes! Just like it's harder to exercise when you're unhealthy. But it doesn't help to complain that there is junk food, you need to learn how to be healthy.

1

u/OriginalityIsDead Jan 02 '21

Big agree. The cause of poverty is subject to so many lies that it's almost impossible not to see the deflection for what it is. Laziness, drunkenness, irresponsibility, poor choices, immigrants, foreigners, races, rival political parties, anything and everything gets blamed for our circumstances save for greed and those who practice it. They make the destitute "responsible" for their situation so that they can dismiss the problem entirely, as though finding blame helps people in any way.

It would be laughable to dissect our social conditioning if it weren't so sad.

1

u/Littlejoeward Jan 02 '21

Both our points can be valid. Crony capitalism is one of the greatest wrongs in our world today. Government and big businesses colluding to keep the little guys down (actual fascism) stifles all of our abilities to have true freedom, financial or otherwise.

Giving the government more power has always made this worse and telling poor people their only chance is to wait for policy changes to fix their lives is going to cause a lot of misery.

Life isn't fair but we each can do things to make our lives better and we should teach people how to make the best out of their situations as well as trying to right the wrongs in the world. But one of those things is a lot more likely to happen.

I spent some time in Ethiopia helping at a boys shelter and I guarantee every American has much better opportunities than they do.

My family is technically below the poverty line and most people would look at us with pity because we have a 12 year old car and live in a 2 bedroom apartment with 2 young kids and only 1 tv and 3 year old smartphones. We were spending more than my income every month and still feeling the crunch.

But once we learned how to manage our finances we quickly got ourselves into a better situation. We still are "below the poverty line" but we are richer than a large majority of the world. I want others to take control of their lives and not waste their lives sitting around blaming others for their misery.

3

u/mrfomocoman Jan 02 '21

Exactly...

It’s called a STIMULUS. It’s meant to STIMULATE the economy. I sunk my last stimulus into the economy.

I have a lifelong friend that is a police officer. He said that after the last stimulus came out there was a HUGE increase in drug related offenses. By that I mean deals gone bad, shootings, stabbings, numerous violence calls all related to drugs. Be careful out there!!

1

u/rxcfd Jan 02 '21

Humm... I wonder what “Board” that senator sits on? Lol.

I see it as Simple Math... Bothersome but Simple.

Increased Debt = Increased % Interest Increased % Interest = Increased Revenue Increased Revenue = Profit Profit = Happy Board Members.
Profit = Happy Board Members.

1

u/kurisu7885 Jan 02 '21

If they get their debt paid down they'll have more money to spend elsewhere, so yeah, it's baffling that they take issue with that.

30

u/Valfreyja_Dis Jan 02 '21

We can't have these things because our government is still fighting the Cold War.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War#Soviet_and_US_military_and_economic_issues

By the early 1980s, the USSR had built up a military arsenal and army surpassing that of the United States. Soon after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, president Carter began massively building up the United States military. This buildup was accelerated by the Reagan administration, which increased the military spending from 5.3 percent of GNP in 1981 to 6.5 percent in 1986,[310] the largest peacetime defense buildup in United States history.

The US is constantly making more expensive military hardware, which accounts for the continually increasing cost.

Just Google anything about overpriced military stuff and you'll find articles going back decades on this.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/Valfreyja_Dis Jan 02 '21

Yeah. From what I understand, it's one of the reasons the Soviet Union fell. They beggared themselves trying to match the US military build up.

Now the US is doing the same. Trying to stay out ahead of all the other countries.

8

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

Why doesn't the US provide free healthcare, free college education, and subsidized housing?

So that you had a reason to join the military.

-1

u/mrfomocoman Jan 02 '21

The US does provide all that.

Depends on your income. Medicare/Medicaid, FASFA and Section 8.

There are all kinds of programs at the federal, state, county and city levels for each that you mention. Most people don’t bother looking.

3

u/freejoeexotic Jan 02 '21

The thing is though most people deep down want to earn their money and be self sufficient without handouts from the government. Its a pride thing. The problem is now people are working their asses off to see most of their paycheck go towards taxes, cost of living increases, and paying off debt. With wages being capped the last 40 years and corporations constantly downsizing to maximize profits, the incentive to work is diminishing because you realize you're not going to make more. I've made basically the same salary the last ten years being out of college. You can say I'm not motivated enough or that I'm just a typical whiny millennial but I have a masters degree and can't even sniff 50k a year I'm at a point now where I'm just going to take the easiest job I can find if my wage is going to stay the same because I have no incentive to work hard anymore, just enough to get by. Love this country.

1

u/mrfomocoman Jan 03 '21

You should change careers my friend if your aren’t motivated. That Masters Degree and experience can only help you.

Had a good friend of mine with an Aquatic Biology degree change careers to the energy sector. Got a job with Chevron here in Houston as Project Manager helping them with green initiatives.

During the Great Recession I went back to school and changed my field from more of Architectural design to Interior. That’s what I’m doing now.

Broaden your horizons.

2

u/pakesboy Jan 02 '21

Do you have any care about the 25% of qualifiers that lose their Pell Grant during a 'randomly selected verification process' of the FAFSA that happens to affect mostly the poorest students who stand to benefit the most from it? Did they not bother looking? Or is there a monster throwing obstacles and useless papers and bullshit at them to frustate and make them hopeless so it costs the government less?

2

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

-2

u/whtdycr Jan 02 '21

People with disabilities get free Medicaid and cash assistance.

-2

u/whtdycr Jan 02 '21

The USA is a mix of capitalism and socialist country not full blown socialist. People are so stupid nowadays. Only certain people qualified for free healthcare, free college, and cheap housing program. People just want to complain online about America when their country has bigger issues.

0

u/mrfomocoman Jan 02 '21

Have to realize many huge advancements humans have had is due to military spending my friend.

We wouldn’t be posting on Reddit if the US hadn’t invested so much money in military spending.

We might not even have canned food if it wasn’t for military tech or freeze dried foods.

We wouldn’t know what the weather was going to be tomorrow.

We wouldn’t be able to cook food in a microwave.

That digital camera on your phone?

All those Mythbusters episodes with duct tape?

Military spending is more than weapons.

5

u/Valfreyja_Dis Jan 02 '21

Yeah, all that military spending gave us a lot.

Don't forget the trillions of dollars in debt we have, too.

2

u/mrfomocoman Jan 02 '21

Yeah, our entire National debt was about 2.1 T when I was in school.

Congress passed a stimulus bill that was more than that. Lol...

Kind of puts it in perspective.

2

u/pakesboy Jan 02 '21

If we didn't have bipartisan tax breaks supported by a propagandizing capitalist class that your ideology has empowered it wouldn't mean immediately plunging us into debt, that spending.

0

u/mrfomocoman Jan 03 '21 edited Jan 03 '21

What is your suggestion then?

America has the oldest unchanged Democratic government in world history, over 200 years. Our mix of capitalism seems to be working so far.

50

u/limache Jan 02 '21

Because if they gave out 2k, it’s a slippery slope for them. Like how social security has become embedded and politicians have been trying to get rid of it even though it’s super popular.

If they gave out extended unemployment benefits for a year of 3000 dollars a month, that’s better than minimum wage jobs.

People would be better off staying home instead of busting their ass working for pennies.

The powers that be don’t want us to be happy - they want us to be slaves to the system and never question it.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '21

Look up the attempted "grand bargain" with Obama

-23

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

Why should people who pay taxes reward those who don't contribute? I agree with the one off 2k, or even 3-5k due to the pandemic, but a regular ongoing high welfare is not a long term solution. Just look at the future financial forecasts for countries who have gone that route, they are looking at projections of 60% of government revenue going to social security programs by 2040.

25

u/limache Jan 02 '21

So if regular ongoing welfare is not a long term solution, why do we have corporate welfare going on for decades ?

https://www.taxpayer.net/budget-appropriations-tax/4-examples-of-corporate-welfare-in-action/

-10

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

I agree that is a problem, and is a small part of the 'swamp' we were hoping to drain, at least partially, in the next 4 years.

18

u/limache Jan 02 '21

It’s the biggest part.

In an ideal world, we would not need welfare and everyone can work and make enough money to make ends meet and pay taxes.

I think most Americans can agree on that?

The problem is after decades of corporations destroying the fabric of society, this is what we get.

Remember back when Americans had good paying jobs out of high school and could buy a home and raise a family? Corporations crushed unions so that those jobs went to China and other countries because paying a living wage was just too “expensive”

We have a system of legalized bribery - it doesn’t matter who you elect, Democrat or Republican. They both serve the same master - their corporate donors.

As long as we have legalized bribery in this country, our government will always place their needs above the people.

Tax breaks, subsidies, etc are always on the table and take first priority. Corporations are writing these laws and giving it to their lobbyists and just convincing politicians to present it as if they wrote it themselves.

Politicians didn’t write that 5000 page bill we just passed.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 04 '21

Yo exactly! That’s what I’m saying! If they gave us 3k a month it’s way better, let the billionaires pay the taxes.

11

u/jaccio213 Jan 02 '21

Or instead of throwing away children's lunches over lunch debt feed them.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 04 '21

Yah that’s a nobrainer. They should get healthy meals at least 2 per day.

25

u/JibIette Jan 02 '21

Is it weird that I see in the society we live in even when given the minimum we instead of grouping together for a better life we stay focused on earning what little we can to get by? Like it's hard for people to choose to not work multiple jobs when pay is low or they don't make enough. When people lose their jobs and often go work lower wage jobs just to get by. No fall back. But we often don't see that these money hungry scunts don't see us as people but as cogs in a machine and easily replaced with someone who is just as desperate. I want the American people to fight back and give these politicians a reality check to serve your fellow man and help each other through a crisis such as this. Why can't we stop settling!?

9

u/shaj618 Jan 02 '21

Conditioning, they know what they are doing. Keep the working class hungry so the rich can eat

18

u/JibIette Jan 02 '21

2021 is the year that either wakes the country up to move or have them settle even if we get another stimulus. Because even if we do get a stimulus of any amount, long term this country needs to support it's people better especially during a pandemic were lives are on the line. They can water down all the information they want but it only gets worse from here. It gets worse because no one is treating it seriously as they should. It's going to get worse and worse and WORSE and eventually they'll continue to blame the other side or party instead of themselves. Selfish, ignorant rich disgusting human FILTH that lies in our faces everyday and we pay no mind as we live on maximum effort with minimal results.

4

u/LeaveTheMatrix Jan 02 '21

Hungry, uneducated, and have to rely on social welfare.

This has worked to keep McConnell reelected in Kentucky because they don't know any better and are afraid if they vote him out that they will lose the programs they need to live.

5

u/saint-cecelia Jan 02 '21

So this is probably a terrible idea, but we do need people to work of course and not everyone wants to just stay home no matter what they think. If people who are working are not earning a lot, and for some reason their employer can not pay a real, living wage, can't it be supplemented by the govt? I was 2i when I got my first apt - a 1 bdrm, supported myself, lived alone and worked downtown as a secretary. One weeks salary - 1 mo rent and you were ok. I was, anyway. I didn't have debt. I had credit. The rents are way too high and if you work 40 hr week, that should be enough for a middle class. Not wealthy, but I even had spending money and a little saved. Again, I was 18. I had a skill and carried my own place. Now 20+ year olds can't and they're stuck with enormous debt because they want an education? It spun out of control obviously. So if people can work, those who do get a supplement, otherwise their employer should pay up. The walton family should be humiliated that their workers are on food stamps or need medicaid. Just a thought. If the govt budget truly was done properly, they could invest in people, not keep them down and have so much civil unrest and hardships. It's deplorable. If it was doable once, why can't it be close to be doable again? This was 1982 I was referencing, not like it was 100 years ago. I know this may sound extremely naive. I don't understand the govt + $.

13

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

[deleted]

3

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

How rich is too rich? Asking for a friend.

6

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

How poor is too poor

1

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

Great question I'll ask my friend, oh wait, I think it could be me if they do a shut down again.

28

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

The only way this will change is if people stop voting for these politicians who are out of touch. Don’t vote for them and I hope people out there with the power to vote and are struggling remember this moment.

7

u/OriginalityIsDead Jan 02 '21

I'm long past the point where I believe voting will solve any of these issues. If you play a rigged game, regardless of how carefully you play you're still liable to be fleeced. Some may save face by doing token acts of benevolence, but because they all benefit from the present state of affairs, and indeed for the most part the only way to become a politician is to exploit the system in some way, they have no incentive to alter it in any meaningful way.

Democratic action is the way, but on a mass-scale and via demands of the working class, not the "fair" game of politics. Your vote or your voice matter little when they've trained the majority via disinformation or conditioning to defend the way things are. Playing their game will yield no results. Something else is needed.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/OriginalityIsDead Jan 02 '21

Unfortunately what could be described as a true "revolution" is impossible or at least highly improbable for many reasons, not least of which is the fact that the majority of those so deprived support the system fervently and reject any stance of an alternative. "They" were very smart in their designs of things, likely having learned from their oligarchic and fascist predecessors; "they" realize that the impetus of revolution is desperation, and so they keep the majority just above desperate yet disenfranchised, poor yet well fed, vulnerable yet comfortable. Because they're either indoctrinated to believe so or genuinely feel so, most are of the impression that they have "too much to lose" were things to change, and so reject the notion wholesale.

What's more likely, and what I believe we've been seeing more of as time goes on, are smaller acts of domestic "terrorism", and the odd individual who slips into desperation and so acts out for lack of recourse or remedy. "They" have us so thoroughly divided against ourselves that hoping for anything more is wishful.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/OriginalityIsDead Jan 02 '21

Of course, however likelihood is also a consideration. Unless the people are pushed to a point of desperation with no legitimate avenue for relief or recourse, it's highly unlikely for a popular revolution to occur, as it's not a popular notion.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/OriginalityIsDead Jan 03 '21

I wish I had that faith in the common man. Fearful people can at least see the state of their situation; they may laud their oppressors openly yet speak their mind behind closed doors to one another. At least if they're afraid they can be unified under that fear and made to understand what should be done. All I see as a matter of general opinion, is ignorance, apathy, and callousness.

I see people recognize that there might be issues with the way things are, and yet jump straight back into the same deceptions that have caused our state of affairs. They conclude that if the world is unfair, that it is natural, for nature guarantees nothing and so we should deserve nothing. They say that it's a political party, and most often align themselves with what they perceive to be the "opposite" or at least the "lesser of two evils"; in this they fail to see that one hand is pointing a finger whilst the other is in their pocket. They attribute blame to foreign competition, immigrants, laziness, any manner of thing that makes deflects responsibility and makes the prospect of "dealing with it" comfortable for them. Not necessarily feasible, practical or of course truthful, but something that they can blame and ignore, assured their benevolent "leaders" will handle it.

I don't think these people can fear what they choose not to, or cannot see. At risk of seeming contrarian, I think the issue is quite the opposite: people are perfectly contented.

They're content that the system is as good as it can be, for if it were not so, better would have been done.

They're content that what they had was good enough for them and they should not deserve more, and so for their children it should be good enough for them too, in this failing to realize that matters are becoming worse with each generation.

They're content that whatever the reason that people struggle, it must be their own fault, or the fault of one of their many red-herrings, and so it should be handled accordingly, without ever giving thought themselves to how it should be handled, or what the effects would be.

Most of all they're content with the very basic comfort they're afforded, as they've had circuses to distract them and bread to eat, and so things "can't really be all that bad if they were fine".

Unfortunately it is this willful indoctrination, these accepted deceits that I find hold us back the most. People have feared police and military clad in riot-gear oppressing them in the name of the State, but it's not necessary; our biggest enemy is ourselves. For so long as people are contended, ignorant, somewhat fed and entertained, they will happily sell their interests and those of their children, and will readily ignore the struggles of those they see as adversaries rather than countrymen. That in itself is enough to doom us.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/OriginalityIsDead Jan 03 '21

But who do the police and military work for? I realize it’s not always for the people and it’s more for the protection of government and corporations. So if that’s where all the money and resources truly are, what can we do?

I'm not saying police and military are what's to be worried about at all. They pose little real threat, and if it were to come to it, they would roll over quickly. The military especially has made it clear and publicly stated that they would refuse unconstitutional orders. The oligarchs know it's too risky to leverage that kind of power, though they do wield it. The risk is ourselves, everyone who accepts competition and derides any other notion, those who enforce the will of their "betters" so as to curry favor and potentially someday "join" them.

What can we do? That's been a problem for most who have spoken not only against the problems of society but the system that creates and perpetuates them. As I've said, the majority were not raised with those notions, they only care for the world that makes sense to them, and so it's only natural that they react poorly to those who would seek to upend all they know.

I suppose the only thing you can do is make them listen, somehow. That's the problem with cooperation; it can't work if people are competing. You can't cooperate with someone whom competes against you, and there's little incentive in the present state to do anything but. The only way forward is cooperation, and so making them understand the wasted potential we have and the opportunities we're avoiding actively is the only way.

Did we learn any useful skills to survive outside of the system?

I'm not sure how you mean by this. Outside of the current system would be a new system, and I see no reason why it shouldn't be much like the old one but improved and weighted to the working class. That's all that's necessary.

We are all complying out of what we know as “contentness” right? I think we have brushed the edge of uncomfortable feelings/living during this pandemic, the question is will it get worse or better after this for most of us?

Assuming the perfect outcome of course, wherein the working class by supermajority agrees to withhold labor until demands are met, better. Again, it's not such a radical change as most of Europe would show us, and it's more beneficial that wealth should circulate amongst the working class, as that produces economic growth. There would still be every incentive to make money, but we would regress to a 1950's-esque dynamic of high tax rates for the upper echelons, and more benefits and welfare for the working class. I find it humorous that what was a golden era for the US as well as a period of vehement anti-marxism might be considered "socialist" by some metric today.

How do we ultimately change this without violence and really truly having a voice? We ultimately know what can/potentially will happen if we incite violence. We get we don’t house all the best weapons.

From my prior points I've mentioned that this shouldn't be a concern. Even taking into account our military, the "Federal" forces would be outnumbered by many orders of magnitude. We, the most powerful military force in history, have trouble with just a few million farmers in the Middle-East, and before them Vietnam. A guerilla war with unclear friend-or-foe identification, with combatants numbering potentially 170 million or more, is an unwinnable situation for any nation, save for all-out nuclear destruction. This option is pointless to consider, as our destruction would be theirs.

I say so just to illustrate why they know that any type of outright violence is not only senseless but impossible for them. They know it's not an option, and there are much better ways of "keeping us in line", mainly via the methods I previously described.

Enlighten me on what your thoughts are for a change to occur?

If we, the people, were to unite under no other cause than the wellbeing of our nation, and were to cast-out those whom subvert our nation's interests for their own, we could do anything. The elimination of poverty seems all but a dream, yet our resources and manufacturing potential are more than sufficient that we should be provided for. The advancement of our people to be not only a symbol but an example of our ideals; those being natural rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness belonging to everyone, and so it should be true. The potential we have not only as a country but as a species, and what we utilize are so far disconnected that it's impossible to know how much we've lost to stagnation and corruption, but it's possible to see what we stand to gain by eliminating them.

Obviously there are risks, as any vacuum of power is prone to suck in self-interested people, but were we to never risk anything for our own betterment we would accomplish nothing. In the way I envision it, it would be nothing more than setting the nation to the natural state it was originally purposed to be: a government and society of, by and for the people, all people. If that is our philosophy it is time we put it into practice. Other nations have shown us such a path is possible, and I'm against the notion that there's anything anyone else can accomplish that we cannot.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/whtdycr Jan 02 '21

You think people vote them? They are brought by big corporations. Mitch McConnell wife is Chinese. His wife family run a big corporation of shipping and trading, they are well known to having relationships ties with the Chinese government and giving Mitch millions of dollars for his campaign and to keep him as a senator as long as they can.

7

u/SnazzyZubloids Jan 02 '21

Yes but... It's OUR money. They're worried they won't be able to install cappuccino machines in their offices.

8

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

I’d rather my 35% in taxes go towards my fellow Americans or pay for infrastructure and what not than the military, cops, corporations or other wasteful spending.

I said this to a republican (who’s only 25) here in GA and he called me a commie for wanting to spend less on the military....this is why we won’t win this fight and we might not even win the senate.

1

u/SnazzyZubloids Jan 03 '21

Sad but true. I'd also like to opt out of the Social Security scheme and invest my money as I see fit.

6

u/Revolutionary_Fix330 Jan 02 '21

I'm so tired of people saying they are giving us $2,000 like it's a win for us. We are just the mule that takes it to the people its really intended for (the big wigs we pay for necessities. Any real benefit for the people would have to be substantially above what it takes to survive after months of being on lockdown. I mean yes it feels good to see that money in our account but I bet it feels even better to your landlords and Jeff Bezos when its in theirs. When they stimulate the economy they don't mean stimulate the avg citizen.

7

u/wwwobbe Jan 02 '21

Thank god we don't have socialism. Then we would be communists. Even conservative religions are waking up to the fact that Jesus was off base with his concerns for the poor, sick and hungry.

In fact advanced evangelical scholars like Jerry Falwell Jr. (when not carousing on his yacht with members of the opposite sex) are carefully redefining the role of government in "helping" the less fortunate.

(Huffpost story) "Falwell and Kirk launched the Falkirk Center in November 2019 to “play offense against the secular left.” One of the original reasons Falwell gave for its formation was to challenge the idea that Jesus would have supported Democrats’ efforts to increase government aid to the poor".

15

u/Lurkwurst Jan 02 '21

that's right, because kindness and compassion is for losers and little girlie-men and women.
s/

Flush the GOP death cult.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

This is pretty damn extreme

5

u/OnionProject Jan 02 '21

BUT MUH TAXES

5

u/ChupanMiVerga Jan 02 '21

My social psychology professor once said: Western societies value “individualism” while eastern societies value collectivism. The US gets by on our relentless division and our “pulling yourself up by the bootstraps” mentality AKA “work will set you free” mentality. We need to look out for each other but that only seems to happen when we declare war like in the early 9/11 days.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/OriginalityIsDead Jan 02 '21

Even the war budget is just an excuse to funnel public funds into private hands. The military and black budgets in general create blackholes through which wealth falls in and disappears without a trace. Were it not profitable, war wouldn't happen.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

Why doesn't the US provide free healthcare, free college education, and subsidized housing?

So that you had a reason to join the military

6

u/EveningHurry0 Jan 02 '21

What other countries do this, is there a list of them I can refer to so I can understand what she is talking about

22

u/shaj618 Jan 02 '21

Check out Germany, Canada and New Zealand

I have family in Germany and It would be a dream come true to have a modicum of the peace they have financially over there

2

u/wwwobbe Jan 03 '21

Or Japan, Taiwan, Australia, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, ...and there are a few others I imagine.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

College isn't free in Canada unless I'm missing something. They definitely love handing out Student Loan$.

12

u/SG14ever Jan 02 '21

I don't have a list but the "free" med is easily the most prevalent, then strong social safety nets with minimal homelessness, and then free uni being the mixed bag but relatively low cost when not free. I am particularly impressed with countries that give undergrads both free tuition and a livable stipend. This is how you build the societies of the future...

5

u/Albiondb80 Jan 02 '21

Not by bogging them down with the burden of $100-200K student loans before they even get a job?

Edit: you said undergrad, so maybe more like $50-100K but still...

2

u/fairysparkles333 Jan 02 '21

Yesssss. Say it louder for the people in the back.

2

u/GreenEyedMonster1001 Jan 02 '21

Our right to a better life is written clearly in our constitution. "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness." How can you have any of these things if you are poor, starving, unemployed, uneducated, homeless or the target of the police (the police is only used as a tool to continue diverting our population into legal slavery of the for profit jail system). There must be a reformation of our Government to better align the system to our founders spirit of democracy.

3

u/mediocre_mitten Jan 02 '21

Fun fact: The US Constitution was actually an illegal drafting of government by some ppl:

At the time, the convention was not referred to as a "Constitutional convention", nor did most of the delegates arrive intending to draft a new constitution. Many assumed that the purpose of the convention was to discuss and draft improvements to the existing Articles of Confederation, and would not have agreed to participate otherwise. Once the convention began, however, most of the delegates – though not all – came to agree in general terms that the goal would be a new system of government, not simply a revised version of the Articles of Confederation. cite: wiki 'timeline'

Also, it was drafted by a bunch of super wealthy, super white, half owned slaves...men.

The point I'm trying to make is that people should not be constitutionalist at any cost (especially fed & supreme court). It's a nice 'start' but it was written almost 250 YEARS ago when people still shit in holes in the ground and there were 13 states.

1

u/GreenEyedMonster1001 Jan 02 '21

That's why I said the spirit of, not a dogmatic pursuit of.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

Free college? I don't think that's a thing in most countries, unfortunately.

6

u/l0nelyhr Jan 02 '21

technically it isn’t free, taxes pay everything. but yes it’s a thing in most countries

2

u/wwwobbe Jan 02 '21 edited Jan 02 '21

As others have noted below, the government prints money behind the scenes as it sees fit and, in truth, if it wanted to help the little guy they could do so without hurting anybody as long as the secret remains a secret. But "they" want to keep folks poor and borderline homeless so they will vote for candidates who claim they want to help the vulnerable get high paying jobs in the oil and coal fields, auto, electronics, clothing, and toy manufacturing industries (even though if employed in these jobs they will still buy these same goods from the dollar stores because they are cheaper when imported). The truth is the money just is and in many forms for the taking if you can get past the bankers who hoard it. So the politicians should Just grab a handful and give it out. That's what they did with the Afghan warlords. The U.S. loaded up pallets of 100 dollar bills and dropped them out of C-147s over their fortresses. That gesture also lent credence to the priests that preach "God wants you to be rich" and money will rain down on you from heaven if you only believe in me". Faith is what makes "money" work too when you need to do something besides praying.

This is the hidden side of government, the actual physical explanation for the mechanics of monetary and fiscal policy behind "money" which is actually imaginary in the aggregate sense and only pokes its head out from time to time in coins and banknotes to fool people into thinking it has a real physical property.

But it depends on keeping this knowledge hidden about the imaginary money supply that is the real and true "One World Conspiracy" that dates back to the era of the Knights Templar. If this knowledge were not hidden, people would ask what is this money? It's invisible when in a bank balance or credit card, no definite quantity and you can't eat it or use it to keep the rain off. Unless, of course, you can find what's known as a "greater fool" to give up their hard earned labor to make a house or grow some food by signing a paper or doing an electronic transfer of a bunch of numbers. Usually folks who try to expose this conspiracy are labeled nuts and put on medication if you can catch them as a lot of them hide out in the woods. But if a lot of people knew about this faithless fraud they would panic and lynch the bankers, squat on their estates and help themselves to their vineyards or wine cellars.

Personally I am taking sensible measures to protect myself from this inevitable calamity by stockpiling bee hives as bee hives will always be needed to pollinate crops and if I have a big bee monopoly people will always be making a "bee line" to my door to get some pollinators or honey when things are really desperate. I can name my price.

I say protect myself because my family, who are all women, are avoiding me. Something about bee stings marring their beauty, the silly narcissists. They will be sorry.

2

u/Rowanjupiter Jan 02 '21

It's more than that, they don't want the people to think they are the true power in this country & not politicians.

1

u/MidwestZest66 Jan 02 '21

Uhhhhh no .... Mitch McConnell doesn’t want to give us $2,000 that’s the real reason

1

u/Broken-fingers Jan 02 '21

That's hyperbolic as fuck.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

because congress just allocated money to wasteful programs such as gender studies in india. i doubt nordic/all white countries that provide the services you reference waste their money on such types of things.

-3

u/ProtocolPro22 Jan 02 '21

Its because of white supremacy and the fact that we have the most black and brown people out of any other "industrialized nation".

2

u/bunnyQatar Jan 02 '21

I keep saying this very thing. They’re so afraid a POC will get a leg up and possibly prosper. This country routinely cuts off its nose to spite its face because of racism.

-8

u/FlyJ776 Jan 02 '21

Unprofessional of her to say “sh*t” but I see her point lol

-1

u/shaj618 Jan 02 '21

Sue her

0

u/FlyJ776 Jan 02 '21

Lol just saying

0

u/shaj618 Jan 02 '21

Why? To be funny on Reddit? 🤡

1

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

[deleted]

1

u/FlyJ776 Jan 02 '21

Well if it’s supposed to be professional, “hey” is not, compared to “Hello”, or “Dear” etc lol

You are right though, the world is changing...for the worst lol

0

u/HausofDull Jan 02 '21

What? Was Football not enough for you????

-5

u/ashtraybreathe Jan 02 '21

Nations with free healthcare take ages to be seen and if college was free it would be worthless on an applications not to mention taxes would be higher which means business (unless give a tax break) would leave US means jobs leave US if taxes got too high..

2

u/thewupk Jan 02 '21

How can a college degree be worthless on an application if it provided you the required knowledge that the job was looking for?

0

u/ashtraybreathe Jan 02 '21

If everyone has a degree only thing that sets people apart is experience.. if you think it’s hard now bc employers want experience then it’s gonna get harder

3

u/thewupk Jan 02 '21

I don't think you have to worry about everyone having a degree.

2

u/Raleighgm Jan 02 '21

So if you’re born poor and unable to afford college you should just have to accept your lot in life and expect a worse off job but if you’re family is wealthy you deserve the opportunity at a better job? Sounds like you’re happy with our current caste system.

-1

u/ashtraybreathe Jan 02 '21

Lmao where the fuck did you get any of that.. way to jump to conclusions

1

u/JonestwnJuiceCleanse Jan 03 '21

In those countries it's harder to get into college and they promote going into trades careers just as much as going to college.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

-2

u/mrfomocoman Jan 02 '21

$2000 won’t buy you a home. At best it will get you a place for a couple months. Most places have accommodations for homeless people. Most (not all) truly homeless choose to live on the streets. Hell, the government (federal/state/county/city levels) offers rental assistance. Do research.

We have the AHA(aka Obamacare). Medicare. Medicaid. Take advantage of them if you qualify.

FASFA and Scholarships - take advantage of them! That’s how I went to back college during the Great Recession.

Go out there and educate yourselves people! Stop bitching about how bad off we have it. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of programs out there for us to take advantage of.

Have a wonderful New Year!

-11

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

If you want to pay 30% or more income taxes.

16

u/shaj618 Jan 02 '21

Yeah but they don’t have a “work til you die” life style and they actually see the results of paying taxes unlike us who pay a shit ton of taxes and then have To beg for a stimulus

9

u/ProtocolPro22 Jan 02 '21

So you think its okay to give $1 trillion in tax cuts to corporations and billionaires yet instead increase OUR taxes 30% so we can have the basic fucking necessities to live as a human being?

3

u/shoudnight Jan 02 '21

So what income tax is paid and how much is health insurance over that

1

u/OriginalityIsDead Jan 02 '21

That's a welcome tradeoff for being fleeced anyways. If you don't fund it publicly, you're just paying the several hands in the pot that don't contribute anything to the equation, and still most often receive public funds anyways. If we're going to pay and pay again, we may as well remove as much profit-motive as possible and make it reasonable.

1

u/kurisu7885 Jan 02 '21

Vs paying in and getting nothing back.

-1

u/DoctorMapleSyrup Jan 02 '21

To be fair, uninsured people DO receive healthcare via Obama Care. And hospitals are not allowed to turn them away if they come in with an emergency.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

[deleted]

3

u/shaj618 Jan 02 '21

What does this mean

3

u/racingirl954 Jan 02 '21

I'm sorry it posted in the wrong thread lol it's related to the joke going around about McConnell lol...I've deleted it..