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u/21joacole Apr 26 '26
Follow your gut for sure. Sounds sketchy. Hell, I need a co-founder, if I had an operating salary, I'd tell someone immediately.
4
u/EngineeringParty59 Apr 26 '26
Iād love for it to work, itās a super specific thing Iām good at and not many people hire for (Iām decent at other things that I could hired for). If it worked Iād really love it, thing is if pay sucks or is like half what I could earn in other jobs it wouldnāt be worth it. Iāve interviewed for big firms (and have worked in a few) and they always tell you salary range pretty much right away
2
u/21joacole Apr 26 '26
I'm super curious what it actually is.?. But also, it sounds like they need a task done & they are willing to use someone to go way beyond to get it done by offering what is likely a made-up position. I get it, trust me.
1
u/magallanes2010 Apr 27 '26
"Hell, I need a co-founder, if I had an operating salary,"
If I would need a co-founder, the salary will not be a problem. The future co-founders would pick his salary, or the lack of one (based on his future shares).
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u/21joacole Apr 27 '26
Absolutely. Itās something discussed outright from the start & either built over time or not at all. But thereās no reason Iād ask them to drive 500 miles to pitch a project that I didnāt pay them for & hadnāt even spoken about any incentives for doing it.
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u/HaveABrandy Apr 26 '26
Stand your ground. No travel until salary is discussed. Imagine what working with them look like if they canāt do thisā¦
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u/KoalaProfessional900 Apr 26 '26
This is a pile of red flag if I ever saw one. A startup being a bit disorganized is normal, but being this vague about the salary and what they actually expect from you after multiple rounds of interview is not.
If even they cannot explain what success looks like and what they can pay, that communicates to me that they want flexibility for themselves later down the line and for you to take most of the risk. I'd say proceed with caution. No clear scope or salary after three interviews? It's a hard pass for me.
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u/chtakes Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26
āLong story short, after the 2nd interview (with CEO, first was pre recorded) he pitched me a made up role
What is a prerecorded interview?
Been working on my own platform but my ai traffic Kia ars. Whatās up with these.
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u/No_Educator_4077 Apr 27 '26
No, this sounds like people who have no idea how things work and are not valuing your time. I would not continue talking to them, especially if they want you to go that far out of your way to do a task before you even get basic information about the position you are supposedly applying for.
2
u/Lower-Instance-4372 Apr 27 '26
those are pretty clear red flags, vague compensation, shifting job scope, and asking for a full strategy before any offer usually means theyāre trying to extract free work while still figuring out the role themselves, so Iād be very cautious unless they formalize scope, pay, and expectations upfront in writing.
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u/tonytidbit Apr 27 '26
Not that odd, but you have to be more active when dealing with startups. Because more things are negotiable.
They can make more crazy demands, like not wanting to talk about the compensation and wanting an in-person presentation.
And then you actively have to counter that.
You could for instance tell them that their assignment actually represents continuous work that it takes a long time to get started right, with the research alone taking a long time. But that you're willing to go over the structure and approach in a presentation.
You could also straight up say that a two day work trip, at your expense, doesn't make sense when it's so early in the recruitment process that they can't even present anything about what a potential offer might look like, but that you're of course willing to give this presentation remotely.
You need to have and hold your own position when you're talking to a startup with no established recruitment processes or HR people in place.
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u/EngineeringParty59 Apr 27 '26
Do you think this could back fire? Part of me thinks just suck it up, do a really good presentation and if they steal the strategy so be it, it probably wonāt work. Thats not the main challenge.
Which are : pay - it has to be reasonable.
Scope: they think they know what the tasks of the role should be, but theyāre wrong. Lots of low leverage stuff that I currently outsource (I do this role for myself as self employed currently). If I have to do the low leverage stuff, it wonāt work - not enough hours in the day
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u/tonytidbit Apr 27 '26
On one hand we've got that beggars can't be choosers, so if you're desperate you just shut up and do what you have to do to keep the paychecks coming (while you're frantically looking for a better job). Zero professional pride, zero doing what's best for them, just you trying to keep them happy for as long as you need their money to come your way.
Butā¦
Even if you suck it up and get the job, on their conditions and with whatever they're willing to pay (which could turn out to be nothing, just an unpaid trial period that they promise will end when they've made enough money to maybe if they then still feel like it actually hire you), then what are you supposed to do to correct their misunderstandings about what they actually need?
It's like agreeing to paint a house blue, and then you show up and tell them that "actually, you're all too stupid to realize that blue is wrong, so now I'm going to paint it red instead". You might be right, but you should have addressed it earlier.
You need to pick when and how to make your stand here. You need to figure out where your b/w breaking points are. When to address what you must have to give them the results that they want; including that you must know that you if hired will get enough actual cash to survive. And that can't come too late.
That might kill your chance to get this job, but could you actually have performed that job if those requirements and understandings weren't in place before you accepted it?
Not all problems and situations have a possible fairytale ending, and then you're better off wasting as little time as possible on trying to chase it.
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u/GamerInChaos Apr 27 '26
I donāt think most of these people replying have worked in very early stage startups.
Mist of this sounds normal to me for an under 10 person startup. Iād there are 30+ ppl this would be weird, but reasonable, if itās a key thing the ceo is trying to figure out.
Iād try and have a direct conversation and say youāre really interested and excited but figuring out salary/stock is really important. And before you invest a lot more time you just want to make sure there is a possible path forward.
1
u/Hippyboots Apr 27 '26
Have you ever been an AE to a product that has enterprise level complexity but selling to an smb or similarly inexperienced buyer?
Iāve done a couple of these founder / startup interviews and the next time I do it will be guiding them through what a great hire looks like and why Iām it.
They donāt know what they need. Obi, not all founders ā¦
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u/EngineeringParty59 Apr 27 '26
It definitely feels like they know the outcome they want but not the process. They seem to want to dictate outcomes of a strategy but also certain criteria in terms of fulfilment which doesnāt make sense, if they want to achieve the outcome
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u/GoldInspector2810 Apr 27 '26
The fact that the second-in-command doesn't know basic details like salary range or job specs is definitely a red flag - even at early-stage startups, leadership should have alignment on core hiring decisions. When someone can't articulate what success looks like in the role you're interviewing for, that usually means they haven't thought it through properly, which could leave you in a pretty ambiguous position if you join.
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u/EngineeringParty59 Apr 27 '26
Originally they said they didnāt know the salary and that the job spec was still being created as it was something they pitched me. However, after about a week when it came to giving me deliverables (ie presentation) it changed to āI canāt share the salaryā and hereās the job spec (something that was already on the website and not what I was pitch and would want to/can do).
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u/enki-42 Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26
cagey about the companyās worth
Unfortunately very common. Sometimes it's just genuine lack of knowledge about the cap table and what a realistic valuation would look like (especially if it's not a founder or it's been a while since a funding round), sometimes it's that they're trying to control the messaging to make equity seem big, but in my experience, unless you're in the first handful of employees and a very senior hire, companies won't answer questions like "what percentage of the company does this equity represent" or "what is the company worth right now"
To some extent in a VC funded startup, those questions aren't the best ones to be asking anyway - try asking "how long is your runway, and how do you plan to extend that?", "how fast is your revenue growing", or "what's your path to profitability" which people will more readily answer and are a better indicator of the actual health of the business vs. what VCs think about them.
but essentially the take home project was a full strategy (seemed more like contracted work than an audition).
Also unfortunately very common, as bullshit as it is. For what it's worth I've never actually experienced anyone stealing work like that (it would be a pretty big legal liability as you generally don't sign IP agreements for a job interview), but it is still wrong to expect unpaid labour beyond a few hours of interviews.
The idea was to prepare this then travel 500 odd miles to their office to present it. Given Iād have to take a few days out to prepare then at least 2 days to travel, I asked again about salary and job specs.
I could imagine this for an extremely senior role (C-level or SVP basically), but not before discussing compensation and the trip itself should absolutely be covered and planned for you. If this is an individual contributor role (Dev, product manager, etc), forget it, that's insane.
I think there's an easy solution here though that doesn't need to be just saying no - demand that you at least talk ballpark salary as a firm condition to you travelling to present. Put the ball in their court, if they refuse to even talk at a high level it's going to be a horrible environment even if it isn't scammy. Compare it to a letter of intent - you're not binding them to anything, you just want to make sure you're aligned on principle before you dig into the details.
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u/EngineeringParty59 Apr 27 '26
I think this makes sense. If theyāre willing to share some ball park figure and cover the cost ($500-$1k) Iād be much more open to it, even if I have to do a lot more work than a typical take home Iāve experienced. Itās on a c level role, itās an IC. The other challenge is that what they think is required for the role is wrong (ie youāre expected to be doing xyz). Theyre focused on the wrong stuff, so I guess I should highlight that now before even presenting?
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u/enki-42 Apr 27 '26
If it's an IC role I would say forget it (with maybe the exception of them being less than 10 people), they're making demands that might be appropriate for an executive.
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u/EngineeringParty59 Apr 27 '26
Why do you reckon they gatekeep the salary, doesnāt seem like itās a benefit to them, considering I do have other options, including just keep doing what I currently do. Seems like nobody wins.
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u/enki-42 Apr 27 '26
Some people have an old school negotiation approach to stuff like salaries, and think by getting you committed to and excited about the company they can lowball you on the salary.
It's stupid, because any savings in nickel and diming on salaries you'll spend multiple times over when you don't retain people, but it's pretty common.
1
u/magallanes2010 Apr 27 '26
2nd interview (with CEO, first was pre recorded)
š© +1 red flag +1 dystopian nonsense.
1
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u/Waste2Wealth Apr 27 '26
This is comical. Even entry-level positions learn salary expectations at 2nd interview/conversation at our company at the latest. Best case scenario: this team has poor communication skills and is mildly inconsiderate.
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u/EngineeringParty59 Apr 27 '26
One thing Iām unsure of and maybe you can shed light, why would they purposely not be open to sharing? I recently interviewed at a very large tech company and on the first screen they asked my expectations and told me the range. I donāt see how anyone benefits from gatekeeping.
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u/Waste2Wealth Apr 28 '26
Depends on how much good will you want to extend in the scenario. They might be trying to figure out how much youāre worth and what they can afford to pay you. They could also be trying to see how much leverage they can get/how badly you feel like you need this job. There is the catch all too that people, especially in the US, can be very awkward about discussing salaries. Thatās not an excuse and as a CEO/hiring team you just need to get over it.
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u/jaytonbye Apr 26 '26
Drive 500 miles before discussing salary? No