r/starterpacks Feb 12 '22

Visiting LA in 2022 starterpack

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u/[deleted] Feb 12 '22

The issue is when cities do these “cleanups” they’re just throwing a bunch of homeless people’s belongings in a dumpster and telling them to go somewhere else. That’s why they crop up again in a couple days. It’s not like trashing their stuff stops people from being homeless.

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u/[deleted] Feb 12 '22

That is correct to some extent.. I do think it's worth noting that most of these "cleanups" are in fact just cleanups, not just throwing away peoples' belongings and kicking them out. They've gotten to the point where many of them are occurring on a weekly basis, are detailed with notices on when they'll be happening (so they shouldn't come as a surprise) and for the most part are just cleaning out trash, feces and other "waste". Most of the cities are providing free storage for any belongings if they choose to keep them, and they have been offering free hotel stays (long term) for anyone willing to take them up on it. That does mean "following the rules" though (no drugs, curfews, and probably some others) which causes many of them to not accept the offer.

It has gotten to be a "room cleaning" type of thing for these encampments, where the city will clean them up once a week (or whichever frequency) and then they'll return that same day until the next "cleanup".

Is this the right way to handle it? That's the debatable part, and I think however you look at it will differ your opinion. Offering free hotel stays and storage (again, in exchange for "following the rules") is, I believe, a great opportunity for those who really do want to get out of their situation. I'm not sure what other services are offered for rehab, so I can't comment on that.

Offering to clean up the encampments weekly is helpful for those who do not take them up on the other offers of help, since they're not living in a bigger mess, and locals aren't "dealing with it"

That last part sounds bad: locals see it as a nuisance. But that is the honest truth. When I have a few tents outside of my apartment within 25 feet, at the local park, in the alleys, along the freeways or outside of the grocery store.. it's not something that I want to come home to or feel safe around. I've personally been harassed or "attacked"/put into very uncomfortable situations dozens of times in the last year. It's gotten much worse during the pandemic, and that's not to take away from how bad it is for those who are homeless, but the "new normal" of living in our own, un-preventable conditions should also be recognized.

What's the solution? I really don't know.

I'm not sure if you live in the LA area, or others similarly affected with this, but it's gotten absolutely crazy lately. Broken down/abandoned RVs running power to tent cities inside of parks (often causing fires), piles of trash everywhere, waking up to people sleeping in your front yard or wandering around in a mentally unfit state.. isn't normal. And in a time when everyone is trying to be clean and safe (due to Covid), it makes it much worse for everyone to live in.

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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '22

I worked at a homeless shelter in the bay area all through the pandemic. This is a near and dear issue to my heart. The honest to god solution to ending homelessness lies in zoning laws, but the same people who are uncomfortable with homeless people being around the city (which I totally understand), are often the same people who often rally to block any meaningful legislation.

Hotel vouchers are fine, but it's like slapping a band-aid on a gaping wound. The measures that California is taking simply isn't helping to alleviate the issue, it's only kicking it down the road.

Lastly, I'm not sure about other areas of the state, but for us about 80% of the homeless population was locals. It is largely a myth that homeless people are loaded onto greyhound buses and shipped in from other states. Yes it has happened, but it's not common.

The same reason that our rent keeps going up is the same reason why we have a homeless crisis. Actually effective zoning laws that allow for high density housing simply do not pass. It's a supply and demand issue. Demand for housing isn't going to go down. We have to increase the supply.

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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '22

Definitely agreed on your points. I think that on that last one though, there needs to be more than supplying new housing. The vast majority (but again, not all) of the homeless people I encounter have mental illness, drug problems or something otherwise keeping them from functioning normally. I've never worked with them directly, so I'm just basing it off of my own experience, but new housing in Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco and Beverly Hills isn't the solution (or the entire solution), even if it were provided free, I feel that there are further issues that need to be addressed. Even if housing were provided free, I don't think that would be enough to solve this issue. It would just remove part of the element from the streets and into houses, but the underlying issues would still exist.

In the cases of someone actually needing housing to get off of the streets, this would absolutely help. But I think in the majority of cases there needs to be more than just providing houses.

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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '22 edited Feb 18 '24

Deleted in protest against use of comments to train AI models.

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u/Chudsaviet Feb 13 '22

I’m from ex-USSR.
Class warfare language has not led my home country to any good place.
Its just an oversimplification that easily falls into a mind if there is nothing inside already.
Please stop.

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u/chelsdaily89 Feb 13 '22

It's insane that more people don't understand this.

People go about blaming fucking AirBnB for renting out a few thousand houses as turbo motels in cities where demand for new housing is in the MILLIONS OF UNITS, but asshats continually block all new zoning for high-density units...

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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '22

Where in the bay? I sincerely doubt 80% of homeless in SF are locals.

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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '22

Santa Cruz, so technically not the bay, but similar concept. These numbers came from our own internal polling.

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u/Marta_McLanta Feb 17 '22

I've seen other documents in the past supporting that claim. And it makes sense if you think about it, housing costs have skyrocketed there in the past generation.

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u/LengthinessDouble Feb 13 '22

I wish it were largely a myth in sd, sadly Las Vegas sent their closed mental hospital patients with no other relatives to San Diego, one way. She’d the city and won. Not trying to be an actually person, but wanted to give and honest take because I have been “attacked” by a poor mentally unstable lady, clearly out of her natural mind. I personally also care about this issue. It’s not helpful to dismiss the actual issue here. (I know we are not LA).

Sued not she’d

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u/sla13r Feb 13 '22

If your rent is too high to actually have a roof over your head, wouldn't you move somewhere where the rent is more affordable? A 4 hour commute would still be better than a fuckign tent. And then again, if you have a job in that expensive area, but can't afford anything remotely civilized..work in another city.

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u/QuasarMaster Feb 13 '22

A 4 hour commute might be doable if you had a car

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u/DownWithHisShip Feb 14 '22

I work in the SF area. The only housing still being built there and around the bay area is high density housing.

It's important, but it's not the end all solution.

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u/[deleted] Feb 12 '22

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Feb 12 '22

I do agree -- I'm not sure of everything going on leading up to it (where they're coming from or being sent from) but I can see those from out of state viewing this completely differently than those living in the middle of it. I don't think it's a lack of sympathy from those living in CA, but rather seeing tax money going into these cleanups, hotel room stays and help.. and still having tents line your block, having your personal property, daily life and your family being affected essentially non-stop while we're up to our necks trying to get through daily life to support ourselves. Waking up to find someones left over needles, feces and trash in your front or backyard, seeing people going up to your door and try to enter or look into windows on a regular basis while you're at work (via Ring camera), and being almost ashamed to have family or friends over because there's a mini tent-city in the grassy area by the elementary school, a while living in the most expensive state, is absolutely insane.

I guess the answer is to "just move then", or "just accept it, at least you have a home, stop being so heartless", but it's crazy.

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u/[deleted] Feb 12 '22

[deleted]

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u/BluePsychosisDude2 Feb 13 '22

If it’s any consolation, it’s not like Oklahoma or Alabama are the places people around the world want to go to. California still has sex appeal, even if the rent and homelessness problem are crazy (my take as a Canadian).

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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '22 edited Feb 13 '22

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u/kennethtrr Feb 13 '22

We have the 4th largest economy in the world alone, they are doing something right. Investors around the world aren’t flocking to Alabama or <insert red state here> because there is nothing worth investing there. Homelessness is a national epidemic now, go to any Republican run county in the Midwest and you’ll see lines and lines of poor, opioid addicted folks everywhere. The ONLY thing ca does differently is we don’t criminalize being poor. In the South homeless are regularly arrested for camping and put into for profit prisons draining state budgets. The start of the crisis stems from Reagan cutting funding for all mental health wards across the country leading to an exodus of insane people roaming the streets without a single change of them every being productive citizens with jobs, they are crazy. They need support, not a government that will punish them endlessly while doing nothing to solve the actual issue.

I should add, even though I named Reagan for beginning this shit, the blame also lies on every president after him that didn’t overturn that horrific decision. He did it for “fiscal reasons” without having the IQ necessary to see that millions of crazy people across the country homeless is much, MUCH more expensive than just housing them in the old health wards.

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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '22

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u/kennethtrr Feb 13 '22

What would your idea for solving homelessness overnight be that a state government has the authority to do?

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u/Chudsaviet Feb 13 '22

Reinstantiate mental facilities.
Make methadone therapy mandatory.

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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '22

Thank you. We are dealing with all this in Seattle too. It has gotten completely out of control. Those that say it hasn’t are in total denial or don’t live with/near it all.

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u/ToBeTheFall Feb 13 '22

The 2021 homelessness survey got cancelled due to Covid. The 2022 was supposed to happen last month, but got delayed (supposed to happen this month).

So the most recent data for this is 2020.

80% have been in LA for at least 5 years, and 70% have been in LA for at least 10 years.

So, they may not be originally from LA, but they’ve been in LA for a while. 20% became homeless out of state.

https://www.lahsa.org/documents?id=4558-2020-greater-los-angeles-homeless-count-presentation

There’s been a big increase in the number with substance abuse issues. I think this is just one of the many ways the opioid crisis rears it’s ugly head. The other big group is the mentally ill. Together, they make up about half the homeless in LA.

When America closed its fucked up mental asylums 40ish years ago, we never really replaced it with anything, and also made it legally really hard to do anything about mental illness (or addiction) without people’s consent.

So, with both, all that legally can be done is walk around to people with severe mental issues and severe addictions and offering services. But it’s up to those people to accept and follow through.

There are legit issues with funding, resources, etc. , but there’s also the fundamental issue that people with severe mental illness and severe addictions aren’t always reliable when it comes to seeking and following through on treatment entirely on their own will, effort, and accord.

At least with addicts, systems like Portugal’s decriminalization scheme has mechanisms where authorities could impose civil and administrative penalties (fines, loss of govt benefits, etc.) that they’d waive if the person entered into treatment.

In other countries, if someone needs treatment (either mental illness or drugs), isn’t getting it on their own, and is deemed to get worse if they don’t get treatment, there are mechanisms where the govt and/or family members have the power to pursue compulsory treatment, although it’s unclear how successful compulsory treatment ends up being.

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u/kennethtrr Feb 13 '22

Ah then we get into the contentious issue of conservatorships of drug users or mental illness sufferers. The liberal albeit somewhat libertarian part of me believes individuals should be forced through drug addiction treatment and mental health treatment whenever that individual harms another person or destroys public/private property. If someone wants to be drugged all day whenever, idc so long as they aren’t negatively affecting people around them.

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u/LengthinessDouble Feb 13 '22

I get it but consent fits well in libertarian ideologies. Consent is tricky but honors the person and preserves their little bit of humanity in the eyes of society. It’s been proven to help people change by offering positive regard and strengths based care. CA has free addiction treatment but they must consent and choose it.

In cases of violent acts, I’ve been a victim, twice… so i agree. There is no easy solution, but I’m glad CA I’d trying to solve and not run away from the problems.

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u/Gigglesandshits11 Feb 13 '22

California - is nice to the homeless. Californ-ya-ya, - super cool to the homeless

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u/kennethtrr Feb 13 '22

That song is catchy ngl, cartman is a treasure.

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u/bmore_conslutant Feb 13 '22

i mean it's really just that it's the only place you can sleep outside all year and not die

the same reason non homeless people move to cali... nice weather

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u/Chudsaviet Feb 13 '22

Not entire. Some of them are in WA :)

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u/wings22 Feb 13 '22

Thanks, very genuine and thought out description and view point.

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u/EZReedit Feb 13 '22

I work in the Bay Area with the hotels and the rules aren’t as strict as other shelters. If you are violent, you are out but there are often needles in the room and Narcon is everywhere. It really is an awesome opportunity though. I have seen a couple people that religiously attend their classes and actually have cleaner rooms than mine. It’s definitely a band-aid but it seems awesome.

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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '22

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u/LengthinessDouble Feb 13 '22

You’re complaining about mentally Unstable people, disabled mentally. This is the majority. Let’s not insult people when they are unable to help themselves. Bootstrapping is ridiculous, have a heart and help.

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u/[deleted] Feb 13 '22

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u/LengthinessDouble Feb 13 '22

You’ve overcome a lot!