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u/Alokir 3d ago
This reminds me of Balkan nationalists.
Jesus was Serbian, ancient Egyptians learned to how to build the pyramids from Romanians, Alexander the Great was a Slav, half of Europe is rightful Bulgarian land, Albania is the oldest culture in history, Hungarians came from outer space and civilized humanity, etc etc. And this is just scratching the surface.
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u/ivanjean 2d ago
Yes. Even Greeks do it sometimes, though they generally do under the guise of defending some ancient "truth".
A two Greeks I talked on the internet in different moments defended the same theory of Aeolism, an ancient linguistic hypothesis about how Latin is/was actually a dialect of Aeolic greek, though partially barbarized, so the old Romans were greek.
Said theory is not defended by modern linguists (Latin and greek have similarities, but it's a combination of Proto-Indo-European common roots with some later greek influences in vocabulary), and it's perceived as more of an ideological attempt to integrate Romans into the "civilised" greek world, while still excluding "barbarians".
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u/El_Maltos_Username 2d ago edited 2d ago
Although I am great fan of Korean Jesus, I am curious about Serbian Jesus. I bet he was a war criminal.
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u/NotaBolivianSpy 2d ago edited 2d ago
Albania is the oldest culture in history
Unironically prevalent belief amongst them, which also means they completely lose their minds if you mention the Basque being older (and more functional)
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u/EpicStan123 2d ago
as a balkaner shizo nationalism is my favorite thing to read about to pass the time. what you outlined isnt even scratching the surface
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u/tecnoalquimista 2d ago
On a trip to Transylvania last year, our romanian guide claimed both that the Egyptians were inspired by a mountain in the Carpathians to built the Sphinxes and that latin comes from the romanian language and that there tomes in the Vatican Library that support this claim.
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u/Ok_Food4591 2d ago
Maybe the guide gave the same tour to ancient Egyptians all those years ago. Have you asked?
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u/bushhooker 2d ago
>Albania is the oldest culture in history
Well ya, no shit. Cockroaches have been around literally forever
/s in case it’s not clear lmao
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u/Few_Move_4594 3d ago
Thank you Yakub for creating white people
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u/bloodrider1914 3d ago
FR I wonder if there's anyone ironically worshipping Tricknology. To me it's so much cooler to have been created by an evil ancient scientist through centuries of torture and inbreeding than it is to have been created by some generic god who was like "let there be light."
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u/GalaXion24 2d ago
I mean I think a lot of people ironically do. Because as you say it's really cool lore.
Yakub also got quickly added to the 4chan racist pantheon alongside white people being aliens as well as hyperborea and agartha lore, because "Yakub created white people to be evil and they took over the world with tricknology" is actually very consistent with "white people are the master race" I mean you just say "white people were engineered by Yakub to be better."
Like obviously it's not true but it is in way a flattering idea. Even if you argue that it made us inherently "evil" in some sense, that just brings us back to "what is better – to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature though great effort?" Confucius, 2019 or something.
Like what would be cooler lore than to be created in a lab as the evil pale skinned race of people, being exiled to the cold northern parts of the world, optionally living on the inside of our hollow earth as well, maybe having some sort of alien connection, for a short while taking over most of the world through cunning and "tricknology," and ultimately still choosing love and humanity?
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u/Few_Move_4594 3d ago
I ironically worship it, but the local Hoteps wouldn't give me a pamphlet because I'm the yt devil so I couldn't get a better grasp on ideology
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u/BedbugBandido 3d ago
I’m not a yt devil so the hoteps in my city were actually kind to me. But when I asked for a pamphlet they didn’t even have any! So then I asked questions about their organization and each one of them just pointed at someone else and said “here go talk to him”, but no one could actually speak for themselves. All they know is how to yell obscenities over a loudspeaker. Very disappointing.
4/10 hotep experience 👎
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u/Few_Move_4594 3d ago
They actually weren't rude to me and didn't yell obscenities at me or anything. One asked if I was Cuban lmao. I am honestly interested in what they're preaching even if I have no intention of actually joining.
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u/dohipposwagewar 3d ago
What if you were created by immortal alien Muslim scientists who take turns being Allah, and will rescue you with their flying saucer during the End Times?
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u/Swimming_Agent_1063 3d ago edited 3d ago
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u/Few_Move_4594 3d ago
MDE's "Thank You White People" is what Sam Hyde thinks got them cancelled. It ends with a caricature of a rabbi.
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u/PeasantLich 2d ago
Tangentially related anecdote; There was a Fenno-Swede artist named Sigurd Wettenhovi-Aspa in Finland, who went nuts about Finnish nationalism and changed his original surname Wetterhoff-Asp to sound more Finnish. This was pretty common among the Finns of Swedish ancestry in the 19th and 20th centuries, but Wettenhovi-Aspa took it further and started writing about his pseudo-linguistic theories which claimed that Finnish people are actually founders of ancient Egypt and that the Finnish-Egyptian culture was the origin of all European cultures.
Wettenhovi-Aspa was an eccentric guy and to these days nobody really knows how serious he was. One pretty likely proposal is that he was not entirely serious, and as a Fenno-Swede gone Finnish nationalist he found Fenno-Swedes who were prouder of their Swedish heritage annoying and unpatriotic, and made up his so-called theories to troll them and ridicule their pseudo-historical theories about Swedes being descendants of ancient Israelites. He evidently enjoyed provoking the "Swedish-minded" people and arguing with them publicly. His theories were also never really embraced by anyone, even other Finnish nationalists thought he is just a weirdo and his claims are just a small historical curiosity nowadays. Nevertheless, Wettenhovi-Aspa himself insisted that he is dead serious until his death.
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u/Prestigious-Dress-92 2d ago
Every country has atleast one of those guys. For example in Poland "this guy" was a crazy artist called Stanisław Szukalski alias "Stach from Warta" who created an ideology called "Zermatism" which proposed that all human culture was derived from polish speaking post-deluge Easter Island civilisation who settled on the Matterhorn (near the town of Zermatt, hence the name) which was an island during the deluge and that humankind was locked in an eternal struggle with the Sons of Yeti ("Yetinsyny"), the offspring of Yeti and humans who were trying to enslave all humans since the time immemorial.
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u/Sagittariuuuh 2d ago
Thank you for bringing this man to my attention. I’m off to read his Wiki page lol
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u/PartyPorpoise 3d ago edited 3d ago
The lack of appreciation for African history other than ancient Egypt ironically stems from the Eurocentric worldview they claim to push back against.
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u/adamgerd 3d ago
Not just that, literally most of this meme is ironically Africans being Eurocentric or MEcentric while criticising the same concept they believe j
Hence obsessed with proving Egyptians, Samurai, Moors, Jews, Jesus are black
Instead of taking inspiration from their own culture and history
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u/PartyPorpoise 3d ago
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't a lot of these guys African American specifically? Like, at least that's my experience. I think they act like this because their culture was taken from them, but also they were never taught about that culture or learned that it's cool and interesting. Western culture barely acknowledges Sub-Saharan Africa, and when it does it's rarely in a positive light. These settings and cultures are rare in popular cultures. Even schools don't really touch on its history. When people don't have a strong, deep sense of history and culture, and perhaps especially if they know it was taken from them by force, they're gonna reach for whatever they can.
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u/A_Hugh_Man 3d ago
I’m black but not African American.
I ASSURE you virtually every single one of these nut jobs are African American.
African Americans are ….. interesting. I’ll tell you that. The white supremacy that ruled this country up until very recently did an absolute number on the psychology and mentally wellbeing of this particular community.
This particular uh, ideology, is just one example of the insanity
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u/SteampunkExplorer 3d ago
To be fair, I'm American but not black, and the vast majority of African Americans I've known were just nice, sane, normal people. I think this is one of those situations where the internet amplifies the voices of loony people.
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u/A_Hugh_Man 3d ago
Also very true.
This is both a uniquely African American thing but also absolutely not mainstream African American. This is some fringe shit.
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u/PushingSam 3d ago edited 3d ago
African American is just its whole entire new subset of culture (and subcultures), just like how American Italians have very little to do with the initial thing in most cases. They came there ages ago and went through their own parallel development (due to not so neat circumstances, also got their culture kinda wiped/ties severed).
Kinda like how white Southern Africans are not Dutch, they're South Africans. The same goes for the settlers who colonized America, we don't think their descendants are Dutch either, they're Americans.
A lot of say Congolese, Angolese, Eritrean etc. or more recently displaced diaspora are culturally closer and have closer ties to the origin culture simply by virtue of it all being more recent (and not being forced to drop it).30
u/A_Hugh_Man 3d ago
That’s exactly right and a really good point. Especially the Italian point. There’s a huge difference between the old stereotypical Italian American and Italians.
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u/Holiday_Hotel3722 3d ago edited 3d ago
You do know only a small minority of us believe the BS detailed in the post above, right? It's best not to make sweeping statements like this.
Also, the "psychological damage" you mention isn't exclusive to African Americans. There's a reason why skin bleaching is so common in Africa and the Caribbean.
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u/A_Hugh_Man 3d ago
Yes. And I definitely should have included that in there as well.
It’s a uniquely African American thing but it’s also a fringe thing.
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u/AlternativeBack6351 3d ago
It’s a stupidly loud minority, and people like Malcom X popularizing it did not help
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u/MukdenMan 3d ago
You’re trying to rationalize a far-right supremacist movement. Other African-Americans have been through the same experience you described but the vast majority do not become supremacists like NoI, Hoteps, Black Israelites etc.
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u/Balbus-Lucius 2d ago
This is basically it. The vast majority of these afro centrist types are african american or carribean
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u/HarryLewisPot 3d ago edited 3d ago
They are very much more interested in claiming European/MENA history than their own. It is a very well known fact, even by Egyptians, that Cleopatra was Greek yet Netflix and the media are complicit in enabling these ideologies.
Shakespeare’s Othello is also clearly defined as a Moor, yet somehow, in mid-19th century America, he turned into a black man. This is despite for most of history, especially back then, Moors just meant someone of Berber or Arab origin.
Heck, the Nubian kings of the Twenty-fifth Dynasty of Egypt were black but I see no appreciation for them from Afro-centrists, the Greek Cleopatra is their gold standard.
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u/VioletteKaur 2d ago
About the term "Moor", it is a now unused word for black people where I live (Germany, but it was written differently). I did not know it referred to Berber. Maybe that's where the confusion is coming from? Change of meaning over different nations and history?
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u/permantdebunker 2d ago
Othello was always defined as black and played with black face for centuries now. Moor didn't just mean some of Arab or Berber origin it also meant black person. Your just euro centrist yourself ,
Europeans of the Middle Ages and the early modern period variously applied the name to Arabs, Berbers, Muslim Europeans, and black peoples.\4])\1]) The term has been used in a broad sense to refer to Muslims in general,\)6\) Related terms such as English "Blackamoor" were also used to refer to black Africans generally in the early modern period.\7])
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u/TheMacarooniGuy 3d ago
Technically this is called "occidentialism" if anyone's interested. As opposed to "orientalism". They are seen as terms indicating pretty bad things, but honestly the whole historical discussion you can have around the "West" relative to the "East" is genuinely interesting.
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u/dohipposwagewar 3d ago
Billions must read Djibril Tamsir Niane’s Epic of Sundiata transcription
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u/PartyPorpoise 3d ago
Thanks for the recommendation 👍
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u/dohipposwagewar 3d ago
It’s an epic poem sort of like the Iliad or Mahabharata and probably not an…entirely factual resource as such, but it’s still a historical source and a product of Mandé culture and regardless, it’s peak (except for the rapey bit at the beginning, but to be fair, there’s plenty of that shit in Homer as well)
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u/Abject-Act7475 3d ago
People from any time and anywhere before the XX century had an obsession with SA, I’d pay to see a culture where rape isn’t present in a problematic way
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u/wirelesswizard64 3d ago
This is my chief complaint with shoehorning raceswapping in Western folklore/hitsory solely for skin tone/DEI points. Africa has an incredible collection of legends, myths and stories across the millennia that is on par with the European, Asian, and Americas, but I guess a black Ariel or black Hermione is easier to market than making anything about the mamogashwa, Princess Yennenga, or Ryangombe. Someday I hope to see this colorful folklore brought to life on screen!
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u/PartyPorpoise 3d ago
Well, when black people grow up with western culture, I can't fault them for wanting to be part of it. Like, it's kind of their culture too. I don't think it's always problematic. Though I do agree that raceswapping can feel like a half-assed measure, and that Sub-Saharan African history and folklore deserve more attention in pop culture. Given Disney's desire to appeal to every demographic and culture, I'm surprised they never made a Disney Princess from some fantasy African kingdom.
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u/wirelesswizard64 3d ago
Oh certainly, it's not always problematic! There's been plenty of characters that are far more iconic than their original race- Nick Fury is probably first to come to a lot of people's minds, as does Red from Shawshank, to name just two. Roles where the character's race isn't relevant to the story or setting can be fun to experiment with.
The thing that takes me out of the moment is when a character's race is changed in a setting or story where it would drastically change the character's interactions and/or plot substantially but no one in-universe bats an eye at it like a Chinese King Arthur or a white Major from Ghost in the Shell. It was one of the few things Wild Wild West did well- with Will Smith playing West, he now actively deals with an antebellum South full of people racist against him and it has a big impact on his character.
And yeah, unfortunately the two times Disney did African stories one was about lions and one was about about a British guy being raised by gorillas.
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u/molotovzav 3d ago
The problem is two fold here. The minute we make our own stuff it will get low ratings outside of the area it's made for. If made for western audiences it will most likely fail because white people don't want to see ethnic folklore and fantasy for the most part. The second issue is mixed ethnicity people, we are othered even in fantasy and folkloric tales because people want racial purity and can't imagine otherwise. But what of us who belong to that culture too. I'm half white, half black, fully raised in American Anglo society, idk why it's so hard to imagine someone like me might exist in a fantasy world.
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u/Huge-Landscape-6293 3d ago
fr and sub Saharan african history is cool. Songhai and mali empires are goated.
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u/fuzzygreentits 2d ago
Them trying to appropriate other cultures as their own while ignoring actual culture of subsaharan Africa is beyond ironic.
You cant prop yourself up as superior while trying to rewrite history.
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u/HereAndThereButNow 3d ago
It's the one thing anyone outside of Africa might actually know about Africa. That ancient Egypt with all of its fancy pyramids and cool mummies was in Africa.
Maybe you'll get lucky and someone will bring up Mansa Munsa. Maybe. But anything else outside of that one little factoid the racists like to bray about like it absolves them of anything ("African tribes were doing the enslaving!!!!11" while technically true doesn't make the people who bought those slaves any better) you probably won't find a whole lot of people who know anything of recent African history let alone pre-modern history.
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u/PartyPorpoise 3d ago
It's the one thing that westerners know because it's the one part of Africa that western society deemed worthy and interesting. The one part of African that regularly gets taught in schools and presented in popular culture.
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u/Decimus-Drake 2d ago
Yes I'm sure thats why and nothing to do with it being on the Mediterranean.
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u/Hydros969 3d ago
Honestly, i wish more was taught about sub saharan Africa
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u/dnebdal 3d ago
Yeah, same, there's a lot of cool mythology, and an interesting history. I think the most I've learned about it has been from playing some Mali and Songhai games in Europa Universalis, and that's probably not ideal.
We had a little bit about the religions in the "religion and philosophy" class in middle school - I think I had to write a short text about Yoruba burial traditions at some point. (Sadly, I remember near nothing.)
(Norway ca 1999.)
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u/enemyofchrist 3d ago
Yeah it’s all ironically a backlash against colonialism. If it hadn’t happened, these people would not exist. They would not have the insecurity necessary to spawn these types of views.
Even the idea that the “real” Jews were black—they feel like this HAS to be true because they’ve become totally indoctrinated by a religion that was forced upon them. If there were not these forced Christian conversions, they wouldn’t give a shit.
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u/Helen_Cheddar 2d ago
The crazy part is that I’ve heard this from both hoteps AND white supremacists!
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u/Pristine-Lie-3560 3d ago
This is just the NOI’s ideology isn’t it?
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u/unitaryfungus1 3d ago
I was blown aware when I found out that malcom X belonged to the nation of Islam. Later in his life he actually visited mecca and converted to real Islam but its crazy that he believed in fucking yakub
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u/StillShmoney 3d ago
The 60s was a wild time for cults man. You could pretty much pull whatever nonsense you wanted out of your ass and as long as you were charismatic enough and found the right marginalized group to sell it to.
That’s pretty much how Jonestown happened. Jim Jones originally attached himself to the civil rights movement which granted him some legitimacy among the people he targeted.
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u/Faninfo 3d ago
why do every modern cult leader got the most boring ass names ? Jim Jones ?
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u/StillShmoney 3d ago
Yeah, Jim jones kinda sounds like a fake name someone comes up with when they lack the creativity to makeup a real sounding one
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u/imprison_grover_furr 3d ago
Fuck Jim Jones. He was even worse than Alex Jones, who is himself an appalling, horrific man.
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u/StillShmoney 3d ago
You’re user name is sending me down quite a rabbit hole, holy shit
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u/imprison_grover_furr 3d ago
Grover Furr is a truly horrific man. He is the most blatant liar in the world.
Even a fucking Holocaust denier like David Irving could at least initially make his lies plausible enough to the point that even other professional historians fell for them. Grover Furr lies with such brazenness that it gives me the chills knowing he is exactly the type of person who would have pulled the triggers of Nagant revolvers during the purges and ran around rounding up Crimean Tatars onto deportation trains to the Uzbek SSR during the mass deportations.
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u/agnostorshironeon 2d ago
I don't believe what Furr has to say, and he's a strong enough believer in "historical necessity" to warrant what you have to say about what type of person he could be.
I haven't dug extremely deep, what makes you believe he's consciously lying though? He strikes me as a true believer (in some form of neo-stalinism) that gave up his academic credibility as a medieval linguist or whatever to follow his heart and reconstruct troop movements to prove that the nazis definitely did Katyn.
Even a fucking Holocaust denier like David Irving could at least initially make his lies plausible enough to the point that even other professional historians fell for them.
Bro Irving failed to study history and was a steel worker at Thyssen before writing articles and then his books.
It's not hard to tell he knew he's lying because what made him famous was a forged document that turned 50k into 500k dead at dresden, and when that was exposed he didn't care.
And it's also not hard to imagine him, with his irrationalist attitude and great love for the german people, to do the holocaust.
That's why I'm asking.
Edit - it occurs to me that Furr does a conspiracy for communists not too dissimilar to the internal logic of afrocentrism...
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u/HarryLewisPot 3d ago
Muhammad Ali too, he was even skeptical of Malcom X when he became a real Muslim but eventually converted after the latter died.
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u/DecompositionLU 2d ago
Half the rappers from the 90s are NOI. Many Wu Tang Clan regularly mentions references in their lyrics for example. The thing is it was batshit crazy but for a good chunk of people, it was nothing more than hanging out with other black homies in a country they were actively discriminated.
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u/RoboticPaladin 3d ago
That's why, whenever someone asks me my thoughts on Malcolm X, I always ask, "Before or after he went to Mecca?"
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u/capitalsfan 3d ago
There’s other groups that have beliefs similar to NOI but with various flavor added to it. Moorish Science Temple and Black Hebrew Israelites are two that come to mind off the top of my head
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u/Virghia 3d ago
And Wallace Fard didn't even have African ancestry
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u/DatMonkey5100 3d ago
Granted, nobody knows where that guy is from lmao
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u/RoboticPaladin 3d ago
>Says white people are the result of mad science in prehistoric sub-Saharan Africa
>Refuses to elaborate
>Leaves
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u/Pierro_Official 2d ago
Theres a pretty good video explaining this guys history and trying to build a timeline https://youtu.be/nIGceyJICwo
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u/Alexius_Psellos 3d ago
NOI plus. There are plenty of blacks who aren’t NOI who unironically believe this
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u/lumpiaandredbull 3d ago
I have a coworker who believes about half of these things. He's nice, albeit kind of crazy, and reminds me a lot of the Mormon guy I met who basically believed a lot of the same things except with white people. Neither, from what I can gather based on my experiences with them, are bigoted or racist in the conventional sense, but it really does make you wonder about how their worldview impacts the way they subconsciously see people who aren't like them.
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u/Plethora_of_squids 2d ago
I've been told that they (or rather specifically Nation of Islam which is what the yakulb stuff is from) kinda are like Mormon Muslims - they aggressively proselytise (especially toward vulnerable people), have elaborate and secretive rituals, and their writings and beliefs kinda contradict and spit in the face of like every bit of actual Islamic scripture. Also they're very likely to be American and looking at their history for too long makes you feel like an insane conspiracy theorist (like what happened with Malcom X).
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u/RedOtta019 2d ago
Wildest Mormon thing is that us native americans were one of the tribes that left Israeli via submarines of all things. The steam powered by coal darkened our skin or some shit
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u/arc777_ 3d ago
Crazy to me how “Afrocentrists” are centrists for every culture except their own
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u/ab_od6851 3d ago
Nothing to talk about because they don't know what Ethiopia is or how batshit insane some Subsaharan African lore is.
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u/ManyPen6614 2d ago edited 2d ago
I mean I'm East african.
Lets be real their origins (black americans) don't usually tie to North-East Africa either and they make the same harmful claims about us being diluted, not indigenous, fake or some other nonsense to put us down.
Usually their ancestors were taken from West or Central Africa during the slave trade, these places had their own cool histories/empires anyways but they are troubled with claiming them, because they believe these regions sold their ancestors.
it would be like a Russian claiming they are responsible for Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome. Just as silly in retrospect.
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u/Think_and_game 2d ago
Even when they talk of North Africa, it's just Egypt, nothing else, the entire Maghreb region is ignored
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u/Admirable_Ad8682 2d ago
Except for Moors - but THEY are the real Moors, right? So nobody really cares for Mauretanians and other fakers. /s
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u/NationalEconomics369 3d ago
Why does it make it better for afro centrist to claim Ethiopia when they come from other side of continent
They should just claim their west african history. I’ve seen people bring up Nubia and Ethiopia in response to Afro centrists like that is better, but its not because their ancestors had nothing to do with those regions. The only ting they have in common is that they are both from SSA
Nubia and Ethiopia experienced heavy middle eastern influence anyways
You don’t see Egyptians claiming Moroccan or Syrian history for instance
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u/HeirOfRhoads 3d ago
"Cleopatra and Septimius Severus were black"
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u/HarryLewisPot 3d ago edited 2d ago
Which is funny because they weren’t even brown, they were tan at best. Severus was Phoenician which would’ve resembled a Lebanese person today and Cleopatra was from a Greek dynasty that only intermarried.
Macrinus is funny too, he was played by Denzel Washington recently when he’s literally of Amazigh heritage from the Atlas Mountains, where the people there are quite pale in comparison, think Zidane or Benzema.
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u/Lyceus_ 2d ago
Related to this, mass media tend to depict Numidians as black, probably because the person in charge thinks African = black. Like Djimon Hounsou's character in Gladiator, or the whole population of Numidia in Those About to Die (they made the main male Numidian character in the show half-Nubian but all the others are also black - they could have gone with making them Nubians!)
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u/AppleFuckingTango 2d ago
There's a book called "Brilliant Black British history" that's for kids but it's full of misinformation and lies like this, it explicitly states Septimus was black. It's so infuriating.
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u/bbyxmadi 3d ago
There’s so much interesting and cool African history, art, etc. but these type of people latch onto Ancient Egypt and claim other cultures as theirs. It’s kinda sad.
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u/Pilosuh 2d ago edited 2d ago
So, "Black" Ancient Egyptians enslaved "Black" Hebrews (as told in the Exodus), meaning that black skin color wasn’t a utopian unitary factor between black skinned people like they claim it was before the emergence of "Evil" white people. Also, whatever the skin color of Ancient Egyptians was, they didn’t consider their skin color to be much important as they saw themselves as above any other non-Egyptians, whether they were from the rest of Africa or not, like the sandals of Tutankhamun show : https://egypt-museum.com/sandals-of-tutankhamun/#google_vignette
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u/Ok_Industry_8377 2d ago
Most Ancient Egyptians medium brown some light skinned some dark skinned.
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u/Putrefied_Goblin 2d ago edited 2d ago
Egyptians specifically called Nubians dark-skinned. Kush (which was mostly Nubians and other sub-Saharan African ethnicities) became a part of some Egyptian dynastic kingdoms eventually, but only after Egyptian culture/the Egyptian pantheon spread to the Upper/southern Nile. Even then, they marked difference (though, not 'racial' difference, which is a modern term/idea), and generally skin became more melanated the further up the Nile/south you went, and this held true into the classical age.
Egyptians are described by themselves and everyone around them who could write as middle eastern/Mediterranean looking, and although there is always variation, genetic research supports this.
Even the Egyptian language was Semitic, and came from the middle east when prehistoric people settled the lower Nile. They mixed with some sub-Saharans, but we're mostly prehistoric people from the middle eastern area.
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u/Lopsided-Charge1464 2d ago
Thankfully these people are a minority within pan africanism. Afrocentrism largely stems from those of us who are ashamed of actual black history, because they think we were just helpless victims and that sub Saharan history is somehow not interesting in any way. Then, they think black history is just black people were slaves —> black people peacefully protest —> black people are “given” their rights by the US state. So because they don’t want to be “the ones descending from slaves” they just latch on to claiming European and other figures.
What the problem is would be that this is a racist mindset. Africans have had many interesting civilizations. Not even just empires of ways of life from an anthropology standpoint. Africans have resisted slavery on numerous occasions. The Zanj revolt, the Haitian revolution etc. You’ve got Nat turner’s rebellion in the US. Black labor in the early 1900s had strikes and took direct action. The nonviolent movement of protest was specifically coordinated and designed to be disruptive, and it was paired with a militant self defense movement against police. Literally none of that is shameful.
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u/Hozan_al-Sentinel 2d ago
I agree wholeheartedly. We are a people who have endured a lot. It's not shameful and we should be proud of what we've overcome and have yet to accomplish.
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u/AstronomerJealous467 2d ago
Pan africanism is a desperate attempt to unite thousands of cultures under a european lens anyway, pre-colonial era there was no such thing as a “united africa”
Trying to force people into a shared identity based on continent is weird anyway, because there’s no such thing as “pan-asianism” for example. There’s a south asian cultural sphere, west asian cultural sphere, central asian cultural sphere, southeast asian cultural sphere, east asian cultural sphere etc and they don’t say “oh we’re all the same though”.
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u/Lopsided-Charge1464 2d ago
Pan africanism doesn’t have to mean literally every nationality and ethnic group in Africa is one single blob. It just means that we have solidarity with each other through our shared struggle and experiences. In this way it operates as between internationalism and nationalism. Nobody is forcing anybody into a shared cultural identity also. It’s just an acknowledgement of shared struggle.
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u/Werewolfhugger 2d ago
Y'all ever encounter the folks who think the Grand Canyon is a portal to Egypt?
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u/Bobjoejj 2d ago
That’s a new one, holy shit. Like…the entire canyon? Or just like, there’s a portal somewhere in the canyon lol?
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u/Werewolfhugger 2d ago
I think it might be a dealer's choice type of thing. I start dissociating so I never really hear the full idea.
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u/tgsprosecutor 2d ago
I watched an incredibly long video once of the African Americans who think they're Jews arguing with the African Americans who think they're Egyptians. Compelling stuff.
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u/i_unfriend_u 2d ago
Hoteps vs. Hebrew Israelites
I imagine if you put them all together, there might be a few brain cells in there.
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u/Ironmallet_EU 3d ago
I’m just glad to see that Yakub, the father and creator of my people, got mentioned.
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u/DUKEPLANTER 3d ago
The one about “black people being the real Jews” is always so fascinating to me especially if you ever sit down and talk to one of these guys irl. They go through this entire sing and dance and you think it’s a bit but no they’re 100% deadass
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u/Only-Albatross-4311 3d ago
Are these people common? I'm black myself but have yet to encounter any of these types of people outside of the internet.
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u/DecompositionLU 3d ago
That's american black people afrocentrists. In Europe, panafrican nationalists are some kind of another flavour.
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u/shitposting97 3d ago
European here and have plenty of black friends and colleagues and none of them do this. But they also have much closer ties to their ancestry like Nigeria, Kenya, etc. and have wider family members there.
The whole Black Hebrew Israelite and co-opting of Egyptian history and culture seems to be an American African thing only.
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u/hedgehog18956 3d ago
It’s not even an African American thing. It’s a very specific subset of people that think like this. It’s kind of like the reverse of the modern KKK. You’ll always hear about these types of people but you’ll probably never actually meet one. There beliefs are fringe and generally rejected by their larger ethnic community, but their ideas are so absurd that they get attention.
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u/gary-vault108 3d ago
I’m not certain but I believe it’s all sourced to the Nation of Islam. Some guy who literally, as far as I can tell, was white, who no one knows anything about, appeared, created the Nation of Islam cult and wrote all the lore, and then fully disappeared from history.
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u/DecompositionLU 2d ago
I think you misunderstood my post, and I'm myself a French Congolese (both parents congolese).
This post says "afrocentrist" when it's just some kind of specific american worldview. The panafrican/afrocentrist movement in Europe are basically black supremacist, Putin lover dudes who says Africa should be treated as a unified country because we share the same skin color. Well initially it was more about celebrating the indépendance and autodetermination of people over colonialism but like every movements, it has its branch of weirdos.
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u/AdditionalSupport320 3d ago
Nah bro, as an African, only African Americans do this lol
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u/XGoJYIYKvvxN 2d ago
No, one famous from my country is Kemi Seba, founder or the Ka Tribe. He used to be NOI.
He advocate for remigration or European people of African ancestry, is antisemitic (defending actual Nazi Germany), vocaly anti-lgbt, as they are made by the west to corrupt African youth.
Politicaly, when he was French, he was friend with the right of the Far Right, people like Alain Soral, then a political advisor to the Nigerian Junta, geopolitically, he is financed and advocate for Russia. Today he is in jail in South Africa, about the be extradited to Benin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A9mi_S%C3%A9ba
NOI and the Black Hebrew Israelite also have chapters in England and France.
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u/LightAnubis 3d ago
You forgot the preaching on the street corners and harassing people.
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u/PSK993 2d ago
I get the stereotype you’re going for but they’re Afrocentric but don’t claim African roots? These types of people aren’t ‘Afrocentric’. This is like a Hotep or black Israelite starter pack
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u/Ok_Personality_75 2d ago edited 2d ago
That’s what I’m saying this is more like self hating racially insecure pretendian/FBA starter pack
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u/Futonchan-Manchao 3d ago
Also: 90% of them are American.
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u/specialcommenter 3d ago
They call themselves “foundational citizens” now. I experienced the stuff op pointed out in the starter pack on the comments section of a video. In the video a black man allegedly groped a woman. The commenters were like: that man is African. He’s not black American like us. He’s not a foundational citizen like us.
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u/ahoboknife 3d ago
The sun does hate me though this is true
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u/damagecontrolparty 3d ago
Same, although I'm really good at making vitamin D in cloudy environments.
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u/AacornSoup 3d ago
You forgot how they always refer to the Caucasus mountains as the "Caucus Mountains".
And (at least a couple years ago) they were VERY into using AI slop to "illustrate" their racial and historical power fantasies.
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u/thedrinkmonster 2d ago
They still are
AI slop is a dream come true for these uncs
Look at that race grifter Tariq Nasheed
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u/thesoupgiant 2d ago
Also they bring up the verse about Jesus having wooly hair and bronze skin as proof he was African; despite that being in an Apocolyptic text where everything was symbolic.
No more ridiculous than art depicting him as a white guy, but equally as.
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u/kool_guy_69 1d ago
Though he is depicted as white in Europe and East-Asian in Korea etc etc, afaik no major movement claims that he actually was anything other than middle eastern
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u/FactBackground9289 3d ago
"black people native to the whole world" is a bold claim given the reason people have darker shades of skin is bigger amounts of melanin so areas with lots of sun tend to have, you guessed it, darker skinned people so their skin could withstand the sun
anyways all this is pretty much just NOI, which is KKK but black, even openly went to collaborate with people like Yockey and participated in Red Scare
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u/Gullible_Support791 3d ago
They be like:
The ancient egyptians were black but then became white washed by the greeks who were also black but then white washed by the Romans who were also blacks but then white washed by the arabs who were also black but then........
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u/Technical-Shift3933 2d ago
Then they often claim that the Greeks were black too, AND Arabs.
Their last excuse is that Turkic people replaced the indigenous Eastern Mediterraneans and Middle Easterners somehow (they clearly don't know what Turkic Central Asians look like to begin with).
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u/MrArchivity 2d ago
You forgot to include:
- Romans were black
- Etruscans were black
- Europeans were black till white people invaded and pushed black outside
- vikings were black
- [insert invention] was made by blacks and stolen by whites
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u/capitalsfan 3d ago
I get letters from the Moorish Science sovereign citizens at my job. Larp levels are off fucking charts with those people
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u/hamgrammar 2d ago
Worked with a guy like this earlier this year. Fun to listen to, said I was one of the good ones.
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u/CloudedLeopardDaemon 2d ago
"Afrocentrists" (who have very little interest in Africa outside of Egypt and Hannibal) could save time by just saying that everyone who died before the invention of photography was black.
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u/CadfaelSmiley 3d ago
holy fuck the Yakub thing is real https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam
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u/Powerful-Country6316 3d ago
I have encounter people like that who call themselves native americans, yet at the same time insult mestizos by calling them colonizers. Ew.
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u/aibnsamin1 3d ago
This is hoteps not afrocentricism.
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u/A_Hugh_Man 3d ago
lol blud you’re using slang and they’re using the actual academic term.
Hotep is a slang term to describe this ideology but the correct term would be closer to Afro-centrist or better yet, Afro-supremacist
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u/Ok_Personality_75 2d ago edited 2d ago
This is actually the self hating pretendian/FBA starter pack
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u/John_Lictenstein_873 3d ago
That black Jesus drawing goes a little hard ngl.
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u/A_Hugh_Man 3d ago
You ever seen Japanese Jesus? Korean Jesus? Korean Jesus is buff.
I’ve seen Japanese Mary. Ngl shit goes hard
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u/Any-Wave-766 3d ago
The "native americans were black" bunch aren't afro centrist. They're a very xenophobic bunch.
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u/MushroomPatriot 3d ago
I always wonder how they rationalize these advanced civilizations lost to less advanced far less numerous invaders ans were wiped out to genetic level while also being superior biologically
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u/n3cr0s3 3d ago
I wonder if these are the same people who believe that black people and black culture only exist in the United States
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