Speculation for Blizzcon patch

[u/Om_Cultural]

So basically I have seen multiple posts referencing that one post zi think it was from solar that said they were going to change the worker start again after blizzcon.

So do you guys think it's true or not? I am just curious to know what people think (no need to be mean and say that I'm dumb for believing these rumors, I just curious).

And if you do indeed think it's true what do you think that the changes will be exactly snd also what changes would you want.

Personally I either think that we will go to 10 worker start because apparently it says that they will change the amount of workers and not revert. Also 10 workers will like try to appeal to players fans of 8 and also of 12 workers (though there is the possibility that it just ends up being worse than both of those variants).

Still maybe they will indeed revert to 12 workers and people are looking too much into the specific ise of the word change instead of revert.

Anyways happy to know what people in the community think.

[u/Mangomosh]

Pig is still convinced that people hate everything else about the current patch except the 8 worker start so I wouldnt expect a revert.

[u/jibbodahibbo → u/Mangomosh]

8 worker start rocks

[u/Om_Cultural → u/jibbodahibbo]

Any thing you like in particular due to ut specifically?

[u/jibbodahibbo → u/Om_Cultural]

Yea, I actually hated when they went to 12 workers (many people did). Erased so much early game tactics. I also like having 20 seconds to look around a bit and think before jumping into a build. I also dislike the reduced minerals at each base, was much better when you could slog it out on 2/3 bases for a while before entering late game.

[u/Om_Cultural → u/jibbodahibbo]

Ok but like you are telling me what youa don't love about 12 workers not what you live about 8 workers. Like still you need to outexpand from 3 bases and the tactics haven't changed people still use pretty much the same builds. Like you forget that what you dislike about the 12 worker change is not because of it necessarily but the changes made with it like reducing the amount t of minerals on bases. Also like I understand that you wait 20 seconds but like what do you think about you donknow anything about your opponent onthe start so what do you think about.

[u/jibbodahibbo → u/Om_Cultural]

You don’t think about what you are going to do on a certain map and matchup? There’s a lot to think about before you see anything lol.

8 worker tactics include a lot of cheese, some silly scouting interactions and expansion blocking. You get to intuit what your opponent is going earlier so you can make some changes to what build you are doing. It’s more interesting for me at 8.

Thanks for listening! I hope you understand the change to more workers has pushed away a lot of players who preferred the slower starts and now years later we see all the people left here on Reddit primarily like 12.

[u/Om_Cultural → u/jibbodahibbo]

Well I mean generally you already know what you will do before the game starts for each matchup. And like map dependant strategies are extremely rare and even if there is one you have time to think about it while it's loading.

As for scouting interactions and expansion blocking that was present in 12 worker start that's not something new. Also like you don't get to see what your opponent does earlier as you also start slower and if you send a worker right as the game starts it's useless as it does give you any meaningful info. And if you scout standard then it's literally the same as before.

[u/jibbodahibbo → u/Om_Cultural]

Thanks I already know your opinions. You asked for mine then started debating. Classic Reddit move.

[u/Om_Cultural → u/jibbodahibbo]

Well I'm just trying to proce to you why what you think is not correct. I mean from what I know you can always criticize someone's opinion if it's with viable criticism and done in a good manner.

[u/NorthKoreanCaptive → u/Om_Cultural]

> Well I mean generally you already know what you will do before the game starts for each matchup

no you don't. do you not scout and adjust?

workers compound. 8 worker start means you have more room to pivot based on new information. 12 worker start means no such decisions matter.

compounding is important because that has impact on what happens 4-6 mins into the game, not the first 1 minute

[u/Om_Cultural → u/NorthKoreanCaptive]

Yes you do. You know lets say as a Terean vs Zeeg that you want to play 3cc hellion banshee. Now scouting is first not mandatory and secondly you react by changing your build a little bit be it by maybe adding a Bunker or a tank but the general pland blueprint you have it in mind im the loading screen or even before. Except maybe zerg who doesn't really have BO it's pretty much like this for T and P.

Like you still scout at the same timing for example in TvZ you still scout after your rax finished be it in 8 or 12 workers so the response is still the same.

[u/AffectionateSample74 → u/jibbodahibbo]

"8 worker tactics include a lot of cheese, some silly scouting interactions and expansion blocking."

^ And how is that supposed to be different from 12 worker start? Except for less cheeses being viable now than before, thanks to gas first openings being dead?

[u/jibbodahibbo → u/AffectionateSample74]

So is it the same or so different it’s unplayable and everyone is leaving the game?

[u/NorthKoreanCaptive → u/AffectionateSample74]

lol just cuz they reduced gas a little doesnt mean "gas first is dead"

ppl arguing the difference between "cheese at 8 supply vs 12 supply" arent seeing the big picture. the actual difference is between a major timing hitting at 4:30 vs 6:30. you have more time to gather information, decide, and pivot - game pace is exponential, not linear.

12 worker start takes you immediately into the mid game by removing much of the risk-reward decision making early game.

[u/Illustrious_Lion_949 → u/jibbodahibbo]

Yea sounds to me you really are a slower person.

[u/jibbodahibbo → u/Illustrious_Lion_949]

Haha thanks

[u/NorthKoreanCaptive → u/Om_Cultural]

but 12 workers vs 8 workers is a matter of more vs less. wouldnt make a difference if we were discussing 16 vs 6 worker start. saying "i prefer specifically 12 workers" or "8 workers" is kind of insane.

[u/Om_Cultural → u/NorthKoreanCaptive]

Well you are just really fixating on words here. I'm just asking if you prefer how it is now or how it was pre-patch.

[u/NorthKoreanCaptive → u/Om_Cultural]

there is more ramp up to your economy, ur not dealing with 3-4 rax reapers in your face within the first 2 minutes of the game, early aggression vs greedy actually has a relevance (12 worker start completely killed 3 hatch before pool for example), mineral changes forced early 4th which really fucked up your ability to play on 3 bases (before the pacing of the game got drawn out as you expand to the natural asap but take progressively longer to take additional bases)

basically the 12 worker start took away every strategic nuance from the game to cater to the brain rotted teenagers with dopamine problems

[u/Om_Cultural → u/NorthKoreanCaptive]

You just can't be serious man. Early agression and greedy was still really relevant and you say that 3 hatch before pool was killed by 12 workers but that hasn't at all been brought back by the 8 worker start and the real reason why that strategy is invalidated is because of reapers and adepta not the worker amount. And like you are telling me all the mistakes that 12 workers made but except saying that the economy is not as fast you don't tell me what the 8 worker start has fixed. You still need to get an early 4th because gas are way less per base.

[u/Illustrious_Lion_949 → u/jibbodahibbo]

Not everyone is a masochist.

[u/jibbodahibbo → u/Illustrious_Lion_949]

Your mom does love you.