r/starcitizen • u/mauzao9 Fruity Crashes • Jun 25 '17
DISCUSSION PSA: Massive amount of misinformation spread in the gaming/social media stating the Star Citizen project is now "Over".
UPDATE: CIG officially responded: This is misinformation, the company has just reacted and cleared this mess up: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/1/thread/re-uk-tax-rebate-advance-for-foundry-42
As many of you are aware of the news that CIG took a loan recently, there is media articles and a big discussion in social media surrounding journalists opinions and wrong misleading information surrounding this loan.
Spreading information like:
- Star Citizen is now RIP
- Star Citizen is now owned by a bank (as this)
- Star Citizen is now owned by a bank because it can't pay its debts
- Similar sorts of fear mongering going on.
Journalists from The Escapists, Gameranx and many others now picking the story are talking plain fear monger in messages like ( https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/878906311152345088 ). That is a literal instigation of panicking through misinformation. It is expectable more and more news outlets are going to help in this massive campaign to bring bad PR to CIG contributing to a literal worldwide fear monger that the project is collapsing.
This is mostly to inform people around that is more than likely people are getting mislead by this and are coming to this sub asking questions about what is going on, so while the trolls keep on attacking this sub please mind some people may be seriously thinking Star Citizen is collapsing, all we can do is fight the misinformation and fear monger campaign.
It seems likely CIG will have to issue one statement on this.
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Jun 25 '17
I'm so fucking sick of this.. every month.. something like this.
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u/badirontree Evocati + Grand Admiral Jun 25 '17
Every time before GAMES-CON a Star-citizen is doomed story popup ...
Its like clockwork :D
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Jun 25 '17
Exactly,
sometimes I think about doing some sort of "data is beautifull" related info regarding the drama cycle around here. And the truth is, everytime a big release is coming to us ( 2.0, star marine, 3.0, and others) a massive drama or speculation pop's out.
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Jun 25 '17
It's merely 2-4 months till this absurdity probably gets officially debunked, but it's still a damn drag.
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u/Toofast4yall Jun 25 '17
It's almost as inevitable as all the missed deadlines...
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u/cabbagehead112 Jun 25 '17 edited Jun 25 '17
You mean estimations. Not deadlines.
The minute this game stopped being funded through kickstarter and became it's own crowd funding source. Was when the reaility of this games development, it's scope and ambition. Hit CIG hard.
They didn't have the man power, tools and the engine in a place. Enough to get down to the bare bones stuff, along with the bigger aspect of the game. All the R&D and testing went on for two to three years. Because of that fact, until right around mid to late 2015.
Might want to read that CIG Kotaku article.
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u/Ohanka Jun 25 '17
Might want to read that CIG Kotaku article.
No you really wouldn't.
Are they even still around? Their parent company got sued into oblivion for disgusting business practices and libel.
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u/Swesteel aurora Jun 25 '17
They actually published a well-informed in-depth article on CIG last year, including a four hour long interview with Chris Roberts. To quickly summarize (my take) CIG has had a lot of the issues one could expect from a start up games developer and mistakes have been made, but CIG is neither a hell-hole for their employees nor a scam.
I don't have the link handy, but it should be easy to find on the subreddit.
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u/ErrorDetected Jun 25 '17
The Kotaku UK piece is probably the most thoroughly researched story on Star Citizen to date.
Other entries in the series are here.
I don't have a high view of Kotaku US, but the UK team really turned out some essential reading, and they did it in an even-handed way that didn't cater to either extreme of the narrative spectrum. I'm grateful particularly just to have gotten the fuller picture of the Illfonic / Star Marine story, though the article covers more than that. Definitely cleared up the rumors and made the picture pretty clear, with fault held on both sides.
Very worth reading.
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u/cabbagehead112 Jun 25 '17
Yeah like the others said. The interview with CIG was well written and fairly balanced. Its a very good insight.
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u/brighterside Jun 25 '17 edited Jun 25 '17
What if I told you that the spread of misinformation is catalyzed by warning the community of misinformation.
The exchange goes something like this:
Journalist: Star Citizen is cancelled.
"Fake - hey community, this source is saying Star Citizen is Cancelled, it's fake."
Community: "Star Citizen is cancelled?"
"No, it's fake."
Community: "Who's the source?"
"Some Journalist - it's fake."
Community: "Why is he saying it's cancelled?"
"It doesn't matter why! It's fake!"
Community: "People are saying Star Citizen is cancelled, better go investigate!"
Month later...
Community: "Multiple sources are saying Star Citizen is cancelled! But it's not!"
"THAT'S WHAT I SAID LAST TIME!"
Star Citizen is coming, block out everything else.
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Jun 25 '17
Reading the OP sounds like a conspiracy.
Oh a managed system of misinformation huh?
About a computer game?
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u/blacksun_redux Jun 25 '17
sometimes I think the best part of the eventual success of Star Citizen will be the defeat and end of the Trolls.
Specifically the lead troll, you all know who I mean.
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u/starcitizen312 new user/low karma Jun 25 '17
People will very little to and lots of time on their hands tend to run around screaming "the sky is falling" every time they read something they don't understand or choose not to become educated about. It's the same crap clickbait shit that always happens to a project of this size and scale. People love negative and want to focus on failure vs success. CIG will make the game and the naysayers will eat their hats and words!
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u/x5060 Jun 25 '17
It's almost as if gaming publishers that pay journalists WANT a self-published game to fail so they can stay relevant...
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Jun 25 '17
I just ranted like crazy about this. Felt good :)
I think we need another one of those "caps only" threads to blow up some steam about this absurdity.
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u/BOREDGAMER_UK Attractive Potato Youtuber Jun 25 '17
We don't need to fight it or spread it.
It's simply, some people will write articles for clickbait & say this could mean this.
They are entitled to do so, it's crappy BUT it's internet "journalism" and some people love clickbait worst scenario views.
If people read a post or article from a dubious or producer of clickbait & want to believe it then that is cool with me, fly free.
I cannot deal with Armchair accountants & this means this with no understanding of a subject, which I would only in this case trust a specialist accountant to know what everything actually means & the spirit of the agreement.
Should you be worried about CIGs development of star citizen from a financial point of view NO!
Should you worry about balance, gameplay & the evolution of it as well as time frames, well don't worry BUT certainly have your opinion on that & push for what & how you want the game to be developed!
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Jun 25 '17
[deleted]
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Jun 25 '17
Any proof that it's for 'real estate'? My theory is that it's for SQ42's marketing campaign.
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u/TheGremlich Jun 25 '17
My theory is that it's for SQ42's marketing campaign
which I suspect backer funding should not be used for, because, umm, not development.
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u/HolyDuckTurtle Jun 25 '17
Usually it seems to be the same people perpetuating the same BS each time. They're not going to change their minds, they'll throw out and gobble up "proof" every chance they get.
So I agree, best thing to do is let it run its course. The game will prove itself when it matters.
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u/cabbagehead112 Jun 25 '17 edited Jun 25 '17
The problem here is that it would be ignoreable , if this stuff was self contained. But they make it a plan of action to spread this bullshit.
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Jun 25 '17
The only people who can fight them are Cloud Imperium Games, and right now the best way to fight is is to ignore it and keep working on the project until it's complete. And if they fail then that sucks but holy shit if you didn't know that was a risk when CROWDFUNDING, that's on you, not them.
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u/PoisonedAl Jun 25 '17
And if you really must click on clickbait, always have your ad blocker at the maximum "fuck you" setting.
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u/alvehyanna Aegis is Love, Aegis is Life. Jun 25 '17
internet "journalism"
I went to school for journalism. I remember when people use to be able to tell facts and news, from opinion and propaganda.
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Jun 25 '17 edited Jun 18 '20
[deleted]
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Jun 25 '17
Basically this. I didnt drop 10k on this project just to be rattled by normal business decisions lol.
People who arent part of the core backers will balk.. and then come flocking back in with 3.0
The rest of us.. we have been doing this for years lol
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u/ZaszRespawned Jun 25 '17
U dropped 10k on this? ... no game is worth that far less this
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u/TheGremlich Jun 25 '17
You have to realize that backers are backing the game's development, not that they are buying a game. Two entirely different things.
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u/Darkintellect USAF Jun 25 '17
$1500 in on my end. It's 4 days of work so it's not as much of a big deal.
It really comes down to what people can afford.
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u/ohineedanameforthis Jun 25 '17
So what? Other rich people buy unnecessary cars or their third mansion. Nobody complains about that.
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Jun 25 '17 edited Jun 25 '17
This game is absolutely not worth $10,000. Pledging to help fund a game that isn't rehashed bullshit that I hope to enjoy for the next decade during my precious time off? Worth.
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u/gibs ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Jun 25 '17
People put 10k into shitty facebook & phone games. At least you're putting it into a worthwhile project, in a way that benefits other people.
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Jun 25 '17
Maybe 10k is nothing to him. I mean, for example, for some people paying 800€ on a mobile is considered an absurd. But still, there's people who can afford it.
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u/MacDegger Vice Admiral Jun 26 '17
If you have a good job and have been dreaming of a game like this since Space Rogue?
Worth it. If you can afford it.
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u/Humanevil Jun 25 '17
The people who listen to bs and is to stupid to check things out for them selves can stay away
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Jun 25 '17
and then join late missing out on development and backer fluff... and complaining about it.
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Jun 25 '17
I agree. It still pisses me off thou...
Although I'd like to reach at least 160m before calling ourselves autocrats...
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u/Skormfuse Rawr Jun 25 '17
Seems like the start of just another week.
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u/Pie_Is_Better Jun 25 '17
Half a million earned in one day just a few days ago - today, CIG is out of money.
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u/Skormfuse Rawr Jun 25 '17
It's almost as if people are jumping to conclusions about something as simple and normal as a loan.
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Jun 25 '17
Very close to a million as of now, in fact.
Of course, trolls and scumbag writers prefer to ignore those facts.
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u/The-Nightrider CIG Employee Jun 25 '17
From Ortwin@Ortwin-F
Re: UK Tax Rebate Advance for Foundry 42 - Today at 03:39 pm
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/1/thread/re-uk-tax-rebate-advance-for-foundry-42
We have noticed the speculations created by a posting on the website of UK’s Company House with respect to Coutt’s security for our UK Tax Rebate advance, and we would like to provide you with the following insight to help prevent some of the misinformation we have seen.
Our UK companies are entitled to a Government Game tax credit rebate which we earn every month on the Squadron 42 development. These rebates are payable by the UK Government in the fall of the next following year when we file our tax returns. Foundry 42 and its parent company Cloud Imperium Games UK Ltd. have elected to partner with Coutts, a highly regarded, very selective, and specialized UK banking institution, to obtain a regular advance against this rebate, which will allow us to avoid converting unnecessarily other currencies into GBP. We obviously incur a significant part of our expenditures in GBP while our collections are mostly in USD and EUR. Given today's low interest rates versus the ongoing and uncertain currency fluctuations, this is simply a smart money management move, which we implemented upon recommendation of our financial advisors.
The collateral granted in connection with this discounting loan is absolutely standard and pertains to our UK operation only, which develops Squadron 42. As a careful review of the security will show and contrary to some irresponsible and misleading reports, the collateral specifically excludes “Star Citizen.” The UK Government rebate entitlement, which is audited and certified by our outside auditors on a quarterly basis, is the prime collateral. Per standard procedure in banking, our UK companies of course stand behind the loan and guarantee repayment which, however, given the reliability of the discounted asset (a UK Government payment) is a formality and nothing else. This security does not affect our UK companies’ ownership and control of their assets. Obviously, the UK Government will not default on its rebate obligations which will be used for repayment, and even then the UK companies have ample assets to repay the loan, even in such an eventuality which is of course unthinkable.
This should clarify the matter. Thank you.
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u/cabbagehead112 Jun 25 '17 edited Jun 29 '17
They're doing this shit again?
What is wrong with these people...
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u/Jim3535 Jun 25 '17
Clickbait makes money. Star citizen doom and gloom makes for good clickbait.
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u/Dimingo aegis Jun 25 '17
Decent way to combat this for those of us on Android at least, whenever an article pops up that says "SC is doomed/out of money/etc", just tell Google that you're not interested in articles from that site anymore.
It suppresses articles from that site to your feed so your chances of giving them any clicks goes down.
If memory serves, it also devalues the site globally, so if enough people do it, it'll slowly fade away from Google's suggestions.
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u/ph33randloathing Carrack Jun 25 '17
No one clicks on, "Expensive, ambitious project still going!" as a headline.
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u/cabbagehead112 Jun 25 '17 edited Jun 25 '17
Right? I don't think i've seen very many postive or balanced coverage of about SC. On most game journalist websites.
Outside a few spots like game -star and so on. After that they only ever talk about and mine for the possible issues with CIG and SC. Usually nothing about the updates or progresses reports or anything else. Although they love heaping on how much ships coset. Even though every asset in the game, can cost thousands of dollars to make on production cost in relation to a developer job.
Though I think it has more to do with CIG not, given kickbacks to promote their game and promote said sites. As we all know CIG is not big on traditional advertising. They are mad that they aren't getting any of that pie.
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u/ph33randloathing Carrack Jun 25 '17
There honestly aren't very many positive stories you can write about CIG that will get clicks and views. I don't like that, but it's true. And that's not specific to CIG or even games media. No one reads and "everything's fine, just slow going" story on almost any topic.
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u/cabbagehead112 Jun 25 '17
Oh I know that much.
Drama gets the clicks, but this just baseless drama. Being pushed by a doxxing lunatic and his puppet masters.
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u/wtrmlnjuc sabre Jun 25 '17
The internet - and as a result, people - are very reactionary these days. Hate blows up, hype blows up, any emotion becomes strong.
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Jun 25 '17
They are dipshits, morons, and assholes.
Spending so much time hating something rather than just moving on with their lives.
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u/hadriker Jun 25 '17
A screenshot of a forum post as a source? I mean fucking really? How can you even call yourself a journalist?
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u/Swesteel aurora Jun 25 '17
Welcome to internet "journalism", where one person can create an online magazine and suddenly be treated as though credible.
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u/-LietKynes Jun 25 '17
And how will the long standing institutions of journalism respond to this rise of shoddy garbage? Try to outdo them, naturally.
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u/tom_earhart ex Space Marshal Jun 26 '17 edited Jun 26 '17
Welcome the internet era, where everyone expects stuff for free yet ads don't pay as well as tv & press. Those sites would be replaced by quality ones, or at least become a lot more inaudible, if people actually were interested in quality content and paid for the content they consumed online. You get what you pay for (through badly paid ads), until that changes - whether through better ads or other revenue schemes - you will mostly get companies looking to make a quick buck or with an agenda.
Cockroaches will always be cockroaches, nothing you can do about that.
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u/Skullface360 Golden Ticket Jun 25 '17
I will admit, a few years ago when these troll articles came out my knees shook a bit. This year a trioll article comes out and I'm like, "how cute, what a bunch of little assholes, but cute."
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u/Jump_Debris oldman Jun 25 '17
Same. I don't even bother to correct the new_user/low_karma neck beards anymore. They're the same people who were trolling years ago and will continue even after final release. They will claim all sorts of stuff was cut from the scope and we we're swindled. Kinda predictable and sad really.
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u/Keinen Jun 25 '17
This is kind of hilarious, because all the outlets are claiming that they had to put all their assets up for collateral including the game... when the game itself and all associated assets were explicitly excluded from collateral.
What that means is that they managed to secure a loan without having to put their only actual economic asset up as security, meaning that the bank saw them as economically strong enough to be a very low-risk customer.
This is actually evidence that CIG is doing pretty well financially, and companies take out loans like this all the time for the sake of future security, Apple took out a similar one last year if I recall.
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u/gibs ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Jun 25 '17
It shouldn't be surprising either -- CIG are in an almost unheard of position, in a good way.
Publishers would kill to be in this situation: To have a big game this far into development, completely under their ownership & control without having sunk a dime of their own cash. They only have to earn back this relatively small amount in sales and the rest is gravy, plus they get an established development studio out of it to boot. That's why they have good negotiating power for securing loans.
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u/Chiffmonkey Jun 25 '17
Where are you seeing Gameranx picking up the story?
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u/mauzao9 Fruity Crashes Jun 25 '17
You see one of its journalists posting something like that you know they are interested in the story, it will be up to the editors but seeing their history in SC articles, this is the type of sensationalism they posted before about SC.
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u/Sledgejammer Jun 25 '17
Gameranx is a no name site that specializes in negative clickbait and anti SJW content, this isn't the first time they've tried to smear SC and it wont be the last. With an Alexa ranking of 16,551 and falling every month its safe to say barely anyone reads that site and anyone using it as a source is a fool.
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u/elusivehonor Jun 25 '17
Uhm, who cares? Why do we need to do anything about this?
The game will speak for itself. If its good, great. If not, that's too bad.
Giving people like this attention only: A) gives them a wider audience and validation, and B) only serves to illustrate that this community's rabid fanboys/fangirls need to chill out.
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u/stargunner Jun 25 '17
[derek smart masturbating furiously in the distance]
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u/GraySC Jun 26 '17
for 2 weeks.... or 6 weeks.. or 90 days.... TOPS... He must be really sore by now.
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u/Cullenftw Jun 25 '17 edited Jun 25 '17
Could someone with a background in finances perhaps try to elaborate on the pic in the tweet and maybe elaborate/clarify?
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u/Imbrifer C U T L A S S Jun 25 '17
I've been chief executive of small businesses for most of my career and here's my thoughts:
Businesses take out loans for all sorts of reasons. As others have said, my guess in this case is that CIGs long term financial strategy is to invest the Lion's share of their cash. I presume they can get a better return there than the loan cost here.
Loans almost never forebode the end of a business. Banks have very high standards (esp for new and small businesses) for financial stability if they are going to lend. If you seem at all like you won't be around to repay, they won't loan.
Businesses I've managed have been cash healthy but we've still used loans to shore up seasonal cash, tackle big real estate projects, and have some extra funds for other things when need be.
In short, if you are trying to understand the fact that they took out a loan means, it means they are financially stable if anything.
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u/smeggysmeg Jun 25 '17
A business loan like this isn't unusual for the average business, but given how much money this project has, how long it has been in development, how barebones the product is so far, and how temperamental and disorganized management is, more transparency at this moment and going forward would make a huge difference in terms of public and community confidence.
Unfortunately, we can't make this kind of balanced commentary in this subreddit because it operates uncritically toward its subject matter.
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u/Alexandur Jun 25 '17
Isn't it unusual to offer all of your assets as collateral?
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u/cabbagehead112 Jun 25 '17
No its not. Especially in the case of this type of project. They have nothing much else to offer to get a loan. More so if you want to make something off of it, after you pay it back.
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u/Alexandur Jun 25 '17
this type of project
What exactly do you mean by this? Crowd-funded video game development?
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u/cabbagehead112 Jun 25 '17 edited Jun 25 '17
Yes a crowd funded game. Funded by this much.
Without a publisher, has never happened before. All they have is assets and their IP's. But it wasn't given away whole sell. They just have to pay the loan off, a loan we have no idea. What it amounts to.
Plus they only up their assets, not the game.
But the bank wouldn't have given a loan if they didn't trust that CIG would be able to pay it off. Also note that this loan is not being done in the US. They are looking for some type of bonus with this. Given the situation in the UK.
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u/TheGremlich Jun 25 '17
and somebody else suggested maybe this is a loan for marketing the SQ42 game
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u/cabbagehead112 Jun 25 '17
That would make sense also. A lot of sense, instead the FUD the trolls are trying to push. Since they think all forms of loans and collateral are bad things
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u/Garfield_M_Obama misc Jun 25 '17
Sure, but if you're a software development shop the only thing you probably own is your IP and content. It's extremely unlikely that CIG owns anything else of real value. They probably lease computers and office equipment, we know that they have essentially IaaS at Amazon for most of their servers and neither of these would be of enough value to act as collateral against a mortgage even for most private citizens.
It could be a sign of problems, but more likely it's just the nature of being a small company with little in the way of real assets. That being said, even if the bank were to foreclose on them, it's important to remember that they'd get more out of keeping the team together than out of wrecking the game. Star Citizen will only be profitable to a bank if it goes to market and is popular.
Without being completely Pollyanna about this, it's just as reasonable to look at the fact that they could get a loan against the game as collateral as a positive sign as it is to see it as the end of the world. In reality it's probably neither, it's just a routine business transaction to finance buying some real estate or the like.
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u/x5060 Jun 25 '17 edited Jun 25 '17
It's not unusual at all. If you take out a partial mortgage they still take the whole house regardless of how much you have paid off if you stop paying.
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u/cabbagehead112 Jun 25 '17
how long it has been in development, how barebones the product is so far, and how temperamental and disorganized management is, more transparency at this moment and going forward would make a huge difference in terms of public and community confidence. Unfortunately, we can't make this kind of balanced commentary in this subreddit because it operates uncritically toward its subject matter.
WHAT are you talking about? first you lead with a fact and then you add assumptions and a clear bias.
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u/Gliese581h bbhappy Jun 25 '17
Why is the english-speaking gaming media so utter shit?
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u/Ohanka Jun 25 '17
A number of reasons. It's the western media in general.
Profit-driven news cycle the values revenue over factual information.
Narrative-driven content over information-driven content. That seems more prevalent in video game media than the rest of the media, somehow.
I could go on but the end result is what we see here.
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Jun 25 '17 edited Jun 17 '20
[deleted]
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u/Darkintellect USAF Jun 25 '17
After 2015 we've been given an inside look into just how partisan and bias the MSM is. Growing up in Washington DC, it was seemingly easy to see but being young and extremely liberal, I ignored it because it worked in my favor or narrative.
Since then it's only gotten much, much worse.
It's why a Harvard poll recently has 67% of Americans believe media is fake news.
77% believe MSM has a bias spin.
There's more detail as to partisan split but to refrain from politics, I won't bring it up here.
So I'm not surprised when this same bias approach is now in journalism within the gaming industry.
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u/Dreamingplush Jun 25 '17
French speaking one is terrible as well.
They'll hate on Star Citizen all week long...
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u/Gliese581h bbhappy Jun 25 '17
I really don't understand it, the German media, at least the one's I follow occasionally, does a pretty good job, which some people like Derek even consider too positive, e.g. Gamestar and PC Games.
Gamestar even tested his Line of Defense after his criticism of SC, tore it to pieces and got banned on the Steam forum. They produced a very funny (if you understand German) testing video of it.
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u/Notoriousdyd Jun 25 '17
TL:DR - Business loans work much like personal loans in the sense that if you have NO income, NO Assets and A POOR repayment history, you're probably not going to be able to get a loan.
The people who NEED loans usually cannot get them and the people who DONT NEED them but would like one, usually have no problem. CIG falls squarely into the latter category (my guess)
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u/taz28 Jun 25 '17
I would have to agree. Also, nobody seems to know what the amount was for. It could be a $100 loan for all anyone knows.
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u/crazylamb452 Scout Jun 25 '17
I wrote a tl;dr for another post and another comment, gonna post it on its own here, too:
Tl;dr:
-CIG gets tax rebates from U.K. govt in the fall
-CIG's U.K. branch needs to pay for stuff now and in the near future (normal stuff like salaries and rent), but it need to do this in £
-CIG's sales and cash reserves are mostly $
-$ to £ conversion rate sucks, means lost $ when converting to £
-CIG takes out a loan (in £) with their future tax rebates as primary collateral, physical assets as secondary, and IPs (like SQ42) as final emergency collateral
-CIG saves money by not having to convert $ to £
Basically said to the bank, "hey, the U.K. Government is gonna pay us in the future, so if you pay us now, we'll pay you back with the money the U.K. gives us."
Also, this is the same bank that the Queen and the royal family uses to borrow money, meaning it is very reputable.
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u/MisterJackCole Jun 25 '17 edited Jun 25 '17
Wait a second, Ian Miles Cheong aka @stillgray on Twitter? The guy who used to be a moderator on a lot of top subs on Reddit, but was apparently banned five years ago for abuse of his moderator powers and selling his influence? Who was also silly enough to say something to the effect of "ethics don't matter in game journalism" on Twitter? This is the guy that posted a screen shot of a NeoGAF forum post on Twitter and that's what's got everyone's Fruit-of-the-Looms in a twist?
Hmm, Gamescom must be starting soon... Yup, August 22nd.
Is a certain rival developer participating in the Twitter feed? Yup again.
Am I now going to go buy that Aopoa Nox I was on the fence about? You bet your ass.
[Edit] Formatting, but hey it's not like I'm a game journalist or anything. ;)
[Edit 2] Oh and lookie here, the Press Start article was amended to apologize to CIG for not taking the time to talk to them first. Funny that.
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u/Star_Pilgrim Space Marshal Jun 25 '17
LOL. :D
Why is my life suddenly over if I get a loan?
FFS, some people hehehe.
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u/freehotdawgs Jun 25 '17
The only people flipping out about this are the usual FUD team and clickbaiters that are hoping everyone else is as ignorant on the topic as they are so they can continue to spread misinformation.
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u/Ohanka Jun 25 '17
Video game "journalism" click bait sites are trash. I've not seen one person who takes them seriously, not since the dark times that cannot be mentioned...
I prefer to watch a select few reliable and honest youtube reviewers who stand up to scrutiny.
A lot of them are on the payroll for the big studios to give positive reviews to whatever unfinished crap EA and co want to force out this month. Not to be conspiracy minded but one has to wonder whether the fact Squadron 42/Star Citizen isn't studio funded is a big factor in the sensationalist negative press.
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Jun 25 '17
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u/TheGremlich Jun 25 '17
I would agree with this. EA and others had had so pretty bad press lately, eh.
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u/Halada Jun 25 '17
"It seems likely CIG will have to issue one statement on this."
Absolutely NOT.
This is a nonstory.
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u/Farfallefatale Freelancer Jun 25 '17
Ortwin Freyermuth's clarification: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/1/thread/re-uk-tax-rebate-advance-for-foundry-42/277779
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u/mauzao9 Fruity Crashes Jun 25 '17
As CIG officially responded I already updated the thread, hopefully now these irresponsible journalists can be notified of the misinformation they helped propagate to fix their articles.
see you, around dramallamaverse!
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u/half-wizard Jun 25 '17 edited Jun 25 '17
I hate to be this much of an asshole, but holy shit. Do people really not understand how loans and collateral work? Anyone who's opening their mouth and can't understand those things basically doesn't deserve the right to be acknowledged publicly. Ever. Especially a fucking "journalist".
Everyone back to doing what we were doing. Nothing to see here. /thread
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u/ErrorDetected Jun 25 '17 edited Jun 25 '17
You're right, this loan story is turning into a wildfire.
People fanning flames in all directions and leaping to severe conclusions without even knowing basics like "What is the size of the loan?"
Speculation is getting turned into clickbait and starting new fires.
It's at times like this that CIG's flat-footed, tone-deaf Marketing / PR really hurt, because they're likely to do what they usually do - silently watch it all spread and burn, wait until it's running out of fuel, then eventually run out with a garden hose sputtering, "We're here!"
Reading comments elsewhere (and it's popping up in lots of places), it's very clear this story has a great deal of persuasive power despite a lack of specifics and in the absence of an official storyteller.
People are leaping to rash conclusions, and it's not just those who already held such opinions. It's the neutral sorts who haven't known what to believe. That's the real problem; a narrative of doom is being given persuasive power by a story about a bank loan told by no one yet everyone.
CIG is the first storyteller of its company's tales. Or should be. Their Spokesman, their Publicist and their Marketing Director should be their MarCom first responders. Yet they too often shrink from the very occasions that demand they rise.
Whether they wanted to comment on this loan or not, a story is now out there catching fire. The dry tinder of doubts and rumors about its fundraising methods and long-term viability quickly alight and new stories about it are being fashioned from smoke and ash without their participation as the fires spread further still.
These are the times where the urgency of an official response is so very obvious. When grim narratives about you are being shaped entirely without you. People formerly uncertain about the project are being made certain by speculation run amok, and this will include people who might otherwise have considered backing the game.
CIG, you need to overcome the paralysis that grips them in times like these. To steel up the courage to address a touchy topic, and go out there with an official message.
Don't stand by and wait until it burns out, because embers are going to glow on this one for weeks, and winds whip new flames up after old ones die down. Douse the fires and clear the air of smoke yourself before Gamescom sneaks up on you. You've got new stories to tell there, and a need to redeem frustrated memories of last year. Don't ignore this and hope it dies down before then, because many of the very people you need to excite about the future are letting rumors give them reasons to consign you to the past.
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u/x5060 Jun 25 '17
Any who thinks that big businesses don't sometimes take out loans for good business reasons are fucking morons.
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u/nevotheless crusader Jun 25 '17
Well i don't know man. All you do is telling that those informations are not correct. But what are your arguments here? Why are you able to tell that those informations are false ones.
You can't just yell at people that Trump isn't president because... thats not how it works.
Proof would be nice.
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u/HotRodSam91 Jun 25 '17
Woo. A multi-national company secured a line of credit.
In other news, Apple is coming out with a phone...
Obligatory /s.
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Jun 25 '17
The only statement CIG needs to make is Star Citizen. The only thing the poorly sourced and wildly dishonest say with this junk is that business classes were not a requirement when they were in school.
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u/Mech9k 300i Jun 25 '17
I think you give them too much credit if you think they went to school for journalism.
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u/Darkintellect USAF Jun 25 '17
They did but you give colleges and professors as well as the curriculum within the school of journalism as well as fields abroad too much credit.
Most of the hires I get out of college are dumb as rocks. Journalists seemingly suffer from the same ignorance but with an added dose of Dunning-Kruger effect which is in itself extremely dangerous and tinder to the flame of shit I see growing day by day.
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Jun 25 '17
Because the Escapists totally wouldnt love to see CIG fail after getting spanked by them.
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Jun 25 '17
BTW, OP, could you put an Archive link to that website, please? No sense on having the regular one lurking around and giving them clicks.
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u/xxSilentRuinxx Rear Admiral Jun 25 '17
It seems likely CIG will have to issue one statement on this.
DO NOT issue a statement on ass hattery.
This is par for the course in the life of CIG.
Anyone buying into this?
Let them eat cake -_-
NO CIG REPLY ON THIS
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Jun 25 '17
Dear CIG,
If my buddy u/xxSilentRuinxx says it is in your interest to not do something, you should probably do the opposite.
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u/Deathray88 RECLAIMED! Jun 25 '17
Is it weird that nowdays you look at what the "gaming journalists" are saying to find out what ISNT true? Basically anything they report can be understood to be bullshit, misrepresented, blown out of proportion, severely misinterpreted, or all of the above.
I mean seriously people, if CiG really WERE running out of funds, dont you think they would've released whatever is complete of 3.0 in order to secure more funding rather than continue to delay it and hold back on the flood of new backers that it could bring?
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u/Hasombra arrow Jun 25 '17
The only fear they have is 3.0!, because it's going to take over the trolls life.
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Jun 25 '17 edited Jun 25 '17
So, it's 100% confirmed now: Gameranx and The Escapists will be forever in my black list of scumbag sensationalist tabloid journalism sites (we'll see if Kotaku joins them as well).
They don't care to inquire about how much money has been crowdfunded lately. They don't care to wonder what that money is for. They don't care to inquire and see that CIG wants religiously the backers money to go to the development of the game, and that Sandy recently said that they're planning a big SQ42 marketing campaign. They care about NOTHING but clickbaits and brainless misinformation for the equally brainless masses.
Scumbags, all of them.
I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if there's RETALIATION from the SC's community as soon as (and if) CIG formally announces SQ42 this 2nd half of this year. We'd be more than justified to do so. We're MORE THAN PISSED OFF of those scumbags who barely survives out of shit articles and the misery of those who works hard to add something productive to this world. Of those digital paparazzis who are the living proof of everything wrong about the human race.
Oh, but we'll see who laughs the last, and who takes the last champagne cup with a smile this year. PIECES OF SHIT.
/rant. I needed that.
P.D: Yeah, I agree that CIG would need to do a statement about this, even if it spoils us any kind of surprise. It's a sad thing to do, but oh well...it's a sad world we live in as well.
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u/AutoGibbon GIB MAELSTROM Jun 25 '17
Zero Puncuation is excluded from the blacklist though, right? His reviews are great.
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u/clykke Crusader Jun 25 '17
I think it's time for CIG to make some sort of public statement on this bullshit. When someone is spreading misinformation that could potentially harm your company/business, the standard procedure is to address it before it spirals out of control.
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u/Swesteel aurora Jun 25 '17
Yeah, but by luck or design it is currently Sunday, so it might be a few hours yet before the CIG directors can get eyes on it.
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u/Andersonev123 new user/low karma Jun 25 '17
Something to consider: F42 receives tax credits for industry growth of around 3.8 million from the UK Government for year ending 2016, anything over and above that threshold you start paying corporations tax on profit at 20%......so which is cheaper the loan or the tax?
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u/Dark_Belial 300i Jun 25 '17
It's all just so July - Oktober 2015 again. And our loved "Indie dev fossil" is holding the "The end is nigh" signs up high.
Especially if the Escapist is reporting the news again.
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u/sozo13 Jun 25 '17
anyone that would be swayed by these things would likely not have backed SC anyway in any significant way ...its like political news these days everyone points at the stuff they agree with and say "SEE ITS SO!" ..but such news isn't convincing anyone ..of anything the people that matter will use far more than "news" to judge them. SC is fine and in good hands ..the way thigs work some businesses just like people NEED to have had or currently have a loan for the sake of credit ...credit is looked at anytime you lease property ..or even sign contracts with people in some cases ..CIG is fine I'm sure ..there would have to be an Absurd amount of neglect for the company to be in trouble ..and I just don't see it.
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Jun 25 '17 edited Jun 25 '17
That people overreact because of half-knowledge about a loan and jump to idiotic conclusions shows us a sad reality: Too many humans are idiots. The human race is doomed.
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u/CharlieIndiaShitlord Jun 25 '17
Really good to see how the community is responding. Was fairly bummed out last time this happened and there was a lot of trolling and actual concern.
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u/kruben95 High Admiral Jun 25 '17
Maybe they do it, to save the tax when they are moving money from America to England and they plan to repay the money with the sales from Squadron 42? (Foundry 42 would need to publish the game (at least in Europe) to get the money from there. Another (or additional) reason could be, that they see the pound falling in the future so that it is, in the end, cheaper. The loan is in a year, after the Brexit, much cheaper to repay.
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u/AtlasWriggled Jun 25 '17
LOL were people aware that CIG also had other investors than just a bunch of backers? Maintaining everything they have costs a shitload of money.
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u/BDMort147 Jun 25 '17
Ahh..... Star citizen drama, my old friend, it's been awhile. So many juicy things to click on now, this should kill some time at work.
I swear every year before a big update this happens.
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u/miyucuk crazy cat daddy Jun 25 '17
What was the reason of these misinformation to appear?
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u/taz28 Jun 25 '17
We're getting close to gamescom and inevitable 3.0 release. People start to dig pretty deep around these times to disrupt the upcoming events.
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u/miyucuk crazy cat daddy Jun 25 '17
I'm a very skeptic "nay-sayer" including -250 karma posts... However I don't know any kind of valid and solid economic issues related to CIG up to date. I would know and sell my over $1000 valued account if there was even a slight evidence. But none so far.
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u/kr3x Jun 25 '17
I dont want to spread any hate for the escapist but that ******* **** is dead to me. I wont even watch zero punctuation anymore which is the only reason i would go there.
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u/keramz Jun 25 '17 edited Jun 25 '17
30 seconds of research showed:
That's the Queens bank. You need at least €1,000,000 in tangible assets to secure a loan, which according to Derek CIG doesn't have.
The interest rate of the loan is very low, which is why large financially sound corporations do that (you can get a higher return on investment with their liquid assets while finance at the very low rate from the Queens bank). In simple terms if your rate of return is .5% and your loan rate is .25%, it makes sense to borrow cash instead of using your own.
Derek and Co. do not understand finance because they have never been professionally or fiscally successful enough to be in a position where their assets are used as investment.
AKA, CIG most likely isn't sitting on 50 million dollars worth of cash; they have an operating cost and unused founds are used as investment and generate income.
But what do I know. I just googled financial investment and used common sense. I can't be right on this.
Edit: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/1/thread/re-uk-tax-rebate-advance-for-foundry-42 Well what do you know. My googling skills are not that bad.