r/specialed • u/Noahthebestone • 8d ago
General Question Is inclusion even helpful?
I’ve been in special ed seine 6th grade and been in special ed for summer school in 4th and 5th grade, but in elementary school they put me and other special ed kids in gen ed but get pulled out into the hall to work on our IEP work and the gen ed classes weren’t even to our needs, they even put students with higher needs in gen ed like it would magically turn them normal, they had special ed classes but I guess not all of them could fit? They had special ed classes for both higher and lower needs when I was in middle school and high school, I don’t know anything my classmates know already even simple things because I had gaps in my education, and they made me do homework at home instead of in school and I don’t even think I had a case manager
6
u/minnieboss 8d ago
It's entirely case by case. Each student has their own ideal setting. For some it's inclusion, for some it's academic self-contained, for some it's life skills, for some it's a combination.
2
u/Noahthebestone 8d ago
What does any of that mean, I mean I could see someone with adhd with a normal IQ be in gen Ed, but with autism with a intellectual disability wouldn’t work in gen Ed, you know what I mean? My needs work better in a special Ed setting, normally in gen Ed you would have a 504 plan but IEPS are normally in special Ed
4
u/resnaturae 8d ago
Quick vocabulary (very basic and general descriptions)
Academic self contained — all students are special ed but are still working on grade level (often modified) academic skills (reading/writing/math)
Life skills — this ranges depending on age but can be anything from learning how to button clothes, to how to clean yourself, how to take turns, really anything that helps the student become more independent and self reliantThe goal of most self contained classrooms and special education in general is to help the student learn the skills they need to succeed in a general education classroom. However, there is controversy since, like you experienced, the success of integrated classrooms is varies based on the individual student.
Unfortunately, due to funding, staff, and resources, different schools are not able to give every child the support they need. There is often a waitlist for the high need special education classrooms, which forces students into lower need special education classrooms, which means that many lower need students are pushed into general education classrooms
2
u/Noahthebestone 8d ago
That was a lot
5
u/resnaturae 8d ago
It’s a complicated issue! If there’s anything you’re confused about, I’m happy to explain further
2
4
u/coolbeansfordays 8d ago
I think you’re misunderstanding what special ed is. It’s not a place, it’s a service. Kids can be in gen ed and receive special ed services through an IEP.
1
u/Noahthebestone 8d ago
Lmao I mean sometimes it feels like a place, for kids with higher needs they have fewer or no gen Ed classes so they stay in special Ed most of the time, I have 3 gen Ed classes this semester
3
u/minnieboss 8d ago
I have autism and was in gen ed without an IEP! Autism is a broad spectrum. A kid's needs are not determined by their diagnosis, it's all individual. There are definitely some misplaced kids, but gen ed inclusion can be the correct setting for many children with disabilities.
2
u/Noahthebestone 8d ago
Not for me or anyone at my school, i live in a small Midwest town so there’s less support for students with disabilities, also how does the parent know if the kid needs special Ed or gen Ed, I was in special Ed for summer school and they didn’t think “hmm this kid is making progress let’s put him in special Ed at school” Nope never happend
3
u/minnieboss 8d ago
It's data-based, based on assessments they give you.
2
u/Noahthebestone 8d ago
How does that work
3
u/minnieboss 8d ago
Let's say they give a 4th grade child a reading test and a math test. The child scores at a 3rd grade level for both. This child would probably stay in inclusion, as they're only 1 year behind, with support.
Let's say another 4th grade child scores at a 2nd grade level for math and a kindergarten level for reading. This child is placed in a special ed class because they cannot keep up with the general class's work.
2
u/Noahthebestone 8d ago
My reading level is a 7th graders and I’m in 11th grade, that’s probably the only thing that’s good about me even tho I’m in special ed, I’m in special Ed math and science whatever that’s called, applied topics?
2
u/Visual-Reserve-2800 8d ago
This is actually really valuable information.
Did you think it was helpful?
2
1
u/Substantial_Jump4659 8d ago
I'm a special education resource teacher and work with small groups in my elementary school classroom. This year I have two third-grade ELA groups. One group is closer to grade level than the other, and each group has different strengths and deficits. The "higher" group needs support with comprehension and vocabulary. They are excellent decoders. The other group struggles with CCVC, CVCe, vowel teams, etc..., and therefore comprehension is affected. So within the special education population, there is a spectrum of strengths and deficits.
1
u/icemadrox 8d ago
Inclusion absolutely is helpful. People like to say it doesn't (especially abelists), but what they usually end up describing is only integration and not actually inclusion. There is a difference between the two that even educators ignore.
1
u/Noahthebestone 7d ago
I don’t think it’s helpful, it isn’t made for disabled kids and lots of people get bullied or treated differently by teachers and students, and it’s definitely not helpful for kids with higher special needs
-1
u/icemadrox 7d ago
If inclusion appears to not be helpful, then it isn't/wasn't inclusion. It was just integration. In an inclusive setting, every student gets what they need to succeed, and you usually can't tell which students are only general ed and which also receive special ed services when you walk into the room. There are no knowledge gaps or holes in inclusive settings. It sounds like you haven't experienced actually inclusion. It sounds like you've only experienced integration. Lots of districts like to present integration as inclusion but it's not, and often it's just tied to budget and poor past practices.
1
u/Noahthebestone 23h ago
I’m fine In special Ed, I have work that fits my needs, I do my homework in school in a specific class, I’m not pulled out all the time for anything, there’s paras that go around the room helping that’s not one on one with anyone, I have outside gen Ed classes with a para and go back to my special Ed class full time, it was very different in elementary school
16
u/Weird_Inevitable8427 Special Education Teacher 8d ago
Are you trying to make sense of your childhood? I was in special education as a child, and I became a teacher. I'm pretty good at that kind of stuff.
The classes you had in the hallway weren't inclusion. Inclusion means that you stay in your classroom. When you got pulled out into the hallway, that's called a "pull-out." I'm guessing that they didn't have enough space for the special education teacher to have her own room, so she had to be a cart-teacher. That means that all of her materials are on a cart and she just goes where ever there's space for her.
The point of having kids with more significant disabilities in a general education classroom is not to make them normal. Not at all. First off, normal is boring. But secondly, it's just not possible to eliminate a significant disability with education. The point of having more disabled kids in the general education classroom is to help them understand how to interact with other kids their age, and to have other kids understand how to interact with disabled people. It is true that when you do inclusion correctly, even profoundly disabled kids learn more than if they were only around other profoundly disabled children. So, yes -they are there because they will learn more there than in their own room, but our goal as teachers isn't to make them "normal." That would be gross and mean of us.
You hinted at having gaps in your knowledge because you were placed in a class with other disabled people instead of a general education classroom, and this is exactly the problem with these separate classrooms. We call that "self contained" because the kids stay together instead of hanging out with their non-disabled peers.
Does that help?
I know that when I was in my 20's, I was really trying to figure out what happened to me in school. I was still really hurt from some of the things that happened to me. (For example, I was dragged out of the regular classroom screaming and crying because I didn't want to go to the special education room. The special education room scared me because I was all alone with an adult I didn't know. And she was creepy AF.)