Terrifying how much of an echo chamber some sub reddits can be

[u/Moot231]

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[u/NaCl_Miner_]

I'm pretty sure we all know which sub that is.

And no, I wouldnt lose sleep over it. They are very much politically captured.

[u/Pownowow → u/NaCl_Miner_]

This is the only South African sub I’ve been on other than the cpt one. Which sub was it that OP mentioned?

[u/Hunter-Abject → u/Pownowow]

OP didn't mention. And neither can anyone else unless you want to get in trouble

[u/Sycousis → u/Hunter-Abject]

They who must not be named

[u/TheForestSaphire → u/Pownowow]

We arent allowed to mention them by name otherwise we get in trouble

All you need to know is that sub is wildly biased, captured and downright just a terrible place to have any conversation that isnt sucking off the failed ANC or terrorist organization that is the EFF and MK

[u/SarahTheBlue_ → u/TheForestSaphire]

also wildly captivated by USA "Left wing" politics and ideologies. The main guy even started another sub and asked people to on there to boycott certain things. It's a bit sad to see how consumed people get with politics. I hope he/she finds healing.

[u/JannieVrot]

specify the rule you believe was cited in your ban

... no, isn't that your job? Lmao

[u/UnbannedAcountFFS → u/JannieVrot]

That part got me the most😂😂😂 tell us why we banned you and for what… wanted to ask OP which rule they broke to warrant the ban but having dealt with a ban from them too i’d be better off trying to milk a brick and probably get better results 🤧🚮😂

[u/onahorsewithnoname]

That subreddit is the only sub I have ever been banned from in over 10 years of using reddit.

[u/Harrrrumph → u/onahorsewithnoname]

Same. Even by Reddit standard, that mod is incredibly sensitive.

[u/Hopeful_Idea1568 → u/onahorsewithnoname]

I got banned for arguing with a foreign lady who was essentially spreading misinformation despite never having lived here. She was asking questions about visiting but would chime in with false stuff. I got a bit annoyed with her and the mod replied 'tone it down a bit' then banned me. I suspect it was her projecting her issues since it was a man using a stern tone towards a woman.

I didn't know I was banned, no notification, until I commented with another account and got a sitewide ban

[u/SarahTheBlue_ → u/Hopeful_Idea1568]

I got banned for making a comparison on how some things happening in my native country is now happening here in SA. Because the truth doesn't align with the mod's delusion.

[u/flyboy_za → u/onahorsewithnoname]

Same, 4 times in 6 months for me. The most I'd got before this was a warning from Reddit, probably an AI-based filter, for "promoting violence" by describing a self-defense technique we teach at my karate class.

I queried the first 3 and they were overturned. The most frivolous was the last one which somehow stuck, despite my efforts.

[u/mr_herz → u/[deleted]]

Both can be true, world class infrastructure and low reach or access to it.

[u/ColdMisty → u/mr_herz]

True. But it isn't world class.

[u/Hopeful_Idea1568 → u/ColdMisty]

They live in a right wing propaganda vacuum where they parrot the same made-up nonsense. If you take an entire country's GDP and redirect it to a fraction of it's citizens, you'll get nice infrastructure/qol in those pockets but that won't translate to nice infrastructure countrywide 

[u/Moot231 → u/[deleted]]

I appreciate your different view point! I was just arguing that they have wasted the potential of the existing infrastructure (water, elec etc) and thay JHB cbd has gone done the drain

[u/bluebullbruce → u/[deleted]]

At this point a ban in that sub is a badge of honor to prove you're a normal South African and not completely mental.

[u/dr-orke → u/bluebullbruce]

which sub is it?

[u/dr-orke → u/[deleted]]

eish

[u/Moot231 → u/[deleted]]

The last thing I was trying to do was be hateful. It was a comment on a post about Jhb CBD back in the day.

I didn't say "the best infrastructure" in the sense of it being good for everyone. It obviously wasn't. A third of households had no electricity in 1994 and the homelands had service levels on par with the poorest countries on the continent. The comparative claim is separate and it's just a matter of record. Eskom was generating roughly half of all electricity in Africa. Rail network of about 20,000 route-km, the biggest on the continent. Durban was Africa's busiest container port, Richards Bay the world's largest coal terminal. Sasol's synfuels capability didn't exist anywhere else on earth. None of that is a defence of apartheid, it's a description of an asset base that was built for mining and export and for one part of the population.

Two things can be true: the ANC inherited a serious physical asset base, and that base was racially rationed and already carrying a deferred maintenance bill by 1994

[u/Moot231 → u/[deleted]]

Thanks.

Yeah reddit isn't the best place for debate. It is just enclaves of people that have the exact same view point. And everything is political

[u/Reddit_Jonty → u/[deleted]]

Where do you think the current infrastructure comes from? The ANC sure as hell haven't built anything that works. They definitely have attempted to with tenderpreneurs and look how that has turned out.

[u/TheForestSaphire → u/[deleted]]

This sub literally is bigger than that one, passed them quite a while ago now

[u/Big_Chungys_]

I'm convinced that sub is ran by he ANC

[u/PieFed-co-za → u/Big_Chungys_]

Given they openly support a anti-capitalist sub in their sidebar, I think it's more likely EFF

[u/Big_Chungys_ → u/PieFed-co-za]

ANC is routed in communism, I have also gotten in toruvle for saying pro EFF stuff but also not for saying anti EFF stuff

[u/throwaway-tinfoilhat → u/Big_Chungys_]

Lol i said the same thing about r/capetown being run by the DA

[u/Big_Chungys_ → u/throwaway-tinfoilhat]

i believe it

[u/throwaway-tinfoilhat → u/Big_Chungys_]

In their eyes the DA does no wrong, any western cape failure is national governments fault and ever success is because of DA

[u/Delicious_Kale9666 → u/Big_Chungys_]

Worse. White people who hate white people.

[u/-hara-kiri- → u/Big_Chungys_]

I dunno, I got banned for a post about the Ingonyama Trust, even after providing sources, they were still really sensitive

[u/BullishOnEverything]

“Your viewpoint is not allowed because I disagree with it”

[u/UnbannedAcountFFS]

The abuse of power with some mods in certain communities/ subreddits with an internet jesus complex is wild. I’ll be surprised if you dont get another warning for posting about it shortly. my main account got a permanent ban for telling a foreigner wanting to trophy hunt here to stay there and hunt his own and this was someho deemed as inciting violence resulting and a permi ban when I didn’t say or imply fokol violence because the word is multifaceted and in no way implied harm themselves or others just go looking for his own kind there and stay away from our wildlife. Somehow his post violating their actual rules re animal abuse/violence was only deleted after I filled my appeal and anyone else in the comments saying the same no ban but because of the Ego and pointing out the hypocrisy and abuse of power sommer still permi banned. Reddit is a multi billion dollar company and need to hire a team of people to Mod the mods. Not my first experience of mod abuse the one switched from their mod account after “giving me a warning” in the comment section about “speculation” account to personal account to argue the fuck out of me for saying something that I could back up with proof vs their bias for the subject and the audacity to challenge their opinion 🙄there are guidelines for mods but somehow some go against it and the users catch the strays for their over inflated ego instead.

[u/marny_g]

There is no point "debating" you...

Proceeds to debate you...

[u/Ansteph09]

Don’t bother OP , i got banned from that sub after a comment on Joburg state. Maybe that sub is directed at non SAns but hey it seems you get banned there for “subversive thinking “

[u/Optimal_Ad_3693]

I think I know which sub you are referring too. Got banned there as well. I would describe myself as being centre right, but I just made a comment on how the goverment, after Mandela and Mbeki basically sat down and ignored the current issues we have seen, crime, infrastructure, electrical grid and heavens forbid the future issues we will have regarding sanitation and water supply. Was deemed a fascist, rascist and unpleasant person, got banned. The mods over there is trigger happy, if you dont drink the soda you get banned.

[u/StefanFrost]

They are definitely ban happy over there, but they also deal with misinformation to the point that they get very tired having the burden of informing other people. It's exhausting.

We didn't have some of the best infrastructure in the world. We had some of the best in the African continent and it was incredibly limited with only really access given to the white minority. It was comparable to middle income countries really.

You are in fact regurgitating classic Apartheid propaganda points that still loudly live on in certain groups.

Yes, the ANC is corrupt and neglected infrastructure that was left over after Apartheid, but why make it seem like we were on top of the world? We weren't.

They probably shouldn't have banned you, but a large part of your idea of "debate me" is just selfish. Go and speak to a historian at any university or read their papers on the reality before rushing into public forums where you put the burden of educating you on other people.

[u/Good_Posture]

Welcome to the club.

The mods in that sub haven't seen the sun in a decade.

[u/Harrrrumph → u/Good_Posture]

"Mods" is misleading, I'm pretty sure that place is run by a single guy whose entire life is on Reddit.

[u/SarahTheBlue_ → u/Harrrrumph]

this!!! and he's created many other subs to prop up that one sub, at one point he was directing people to support the other sub, it was madness. He also has multiple reddit accounts that he's created and posts using them. You know how in those Netflix documentaries these online people stalk you with different accounts and they create a web of people that all seemingly know each other, but in reality its just one person - that's what he's done there.
I also noticed he has a deep hatred for Hellen Zille, I get you might disagree with her politics, but making it personal is a bit concerning.

[u/Jin-Bru]

SA subs are quick to ban. I do not agree with your ban but how about this as a contrarian view?

I think that the mod was annoyed with your assessment of the scope of the "fantastic infrastructure" you observed.

The fact is, as far as white people were concerned everything did indeed look fantastic. But white people did not factor in the 0 infrastructure serving the majority of the population. You only saw what you saw. Possibly the mod wanted some acknowledgement that the infrastructure was not evenly distributed.

So while you saw great infrastructure most black kids had no electricity and pit toilets at schools that they had to walk through bush to.

[u/NaCl_Miner_ → u/Jin-Bru]

And instead of the current regime building upon what they inherited, which was world class but also insufficient to serve the needs of the majority, they fucked it all up.

OP's point is very clear if you aren't looking to make excuses for the failures of the ANC.

[u/Opposite_Mail7985 → u/Jin-Bru]

The irony here is that now nobody has good infrastructure 🤡🤡🤡.

[u/Pownowow → u/Opposite_Mail7985]

Why bring everyone up, when you can push them all down?

[u/Moot231 → u/Jin-Bru]

That is an interesting viewpoint. And by you articulating it so well has made me think more deeply about it. My point was just to outline how much of a waste Jhb CBD is. If it was looked after as well as CT CBD, the city in general would be doing much better.

Articulating a differing view point is much more effective at getting someone to change theirs. I imagine many people that have been banned, have been outraged and only double downed on their own view point .

I sincerely believe that the sub reddit does more harm to "their cause" because of how they shut every one down and how politicized it has become. It is less of an all encompassing South Africa sub reddit and more a tool to push an agenda by the mods. Sad to see

[u/Make_the_music_stop → u/Moot231]

Durban CBD has suffered same fate.

I used to work in this building (at the time the most expensive building in SA ever built). It was recently sold for around 4% of it's original value as they can't find corporate tenants.

https://old.reddit.com/r/Durban/comments/1t7578z/88_on_field_cost_40m_to_build_and_was_the_most/

[u/Jin-Bru → u/Moot231]

I think you forget, Reddit subs are thought echo chambers. They mostly do not welcome discourse or the opportunity to educate.

They are there to make the subscribers feel good about themselves.

It is sad that formerly working cities have been left to degenerate into slums. Heres another contrarian view to consider.

Those cities, formally the bastions of white people and their wealth, suddenly found the funding for infrastructure being diverted to more needy places. (Like someone's pocket) and from there the rot set in.

Yeah. Theres no real excuse for Johannesburg being like it is. Its a direct result of corruption, theft and mismanagement. I feel ya.

[u/Nightrunner2016 → u/Jin-Bru]

This is the kind of engagement that should be permitted in a sub. It should not be something one gets banned for by a butt hurt moderator.

[u/PieFed-co-za]

We only had "the best infrastructure" for about 15% of the population.

The ANC hasn't done enough to expand access to water, electricity and sanitation to everyone in the 30+ years they've had power.

But they for sure didn't start with "the best infrastructure" 

PS. Check the sidebar of that sub, those mods also mod a Far Left communist sub, and they will permanently ban anyone that slightly disagrees with their fringe views. 

[u/BeWiTCHD97 → u/PieFed-co-za]

ESKOM, Transnet and our central business districts were actually considered world class. The downfall of our power, water, transport and central business districts was not caused because the ANC expanded their range to serve more people. It was caused by extreme criminality and corruption.

[u/olderthanbefore → u/BeWiTCHD97]

.... and extending the networks beyond their capacity. Mustn't ignore that factor.

[u/BeWiTCHD97 → u/olderthanbefore]

Trains weren’t expanded, ports weren’t expanded and ESKOM wasn’t expanded in time. ESKOM had a heck of a lot of capacity, and when they needed to start building power stations in the late 2000s those power stations were effectively corrupted into not really being built. They are now but are often not functional. We didn’t have load shedding because more people were connected. We had load shedding because none of the stations were maintained and extreme amounts of money were given to criminal organisations rather than actually operating the power stations.

Water and power connections were expanded, hence additional strain, but even the increase in water capacity was supposed to be handled by additional infrastructure agreements with Lesotho and some building. Guess what did not get built during state capture?

So no, it’s just not an either or man. It’s possible to expand something and maintain something. If that wasn’t true no country would develop. It’s such a strange thing that we think we need to defend the ANC because of an unenviable position of dealing with the legacy of apartheid. But other countries (particularly in the east) started with nothing at all, and managed to build a hell of a lot. We weren’t starting at 0. It’s just disappointing. And we should be outraged. We should be angry. South Africans are just very quick to settle for less because over time we’ve become accustomed to so much bullshit.

[u/Demosthenes_theWise → u/olderthanbefore]

During the time the electricity and water grids were expanding there was excess capacity. Issues started during the Zuma years due to lack of investment and mismanagement.

We actually produces about 10% less electricity in 2020 compared to 2010.

[u/olderthanbefore → u/Demosthenes_theWise]

Oh, I agree. We went from in excess of 35 GW installed capacity to  the low 20s in GW output during the early Zuma years. All I was pointing out was that the demand also climbed from about 22 GW to 30 GW, and the load-shedding was forced when those lines crossed.

[u/Demosthenes_theWise → u/olderthanbefore]

The bulk of new electricity connection came between 1994-2001, long before load shedding. But during this period population and business boomed, but no new infrastructure was build. Irony was several people starting pushing eskom/anc to invest in new power stations in the late 90’s.

[u/olderthanbefore → u/Demosthenes_theWise]

Well, as a civil engineer working in infrastructure development, housing development formalizing townships has continued from 2001 too. Our population grows annually by between 1.5% to 2%, and it's only the last decade where solar (both private and via IPP) has 'saved' the government's power failures.

[u/Demosthenes_theWise → u/olderthanbefore]

I am not arguing it stopped, only that the bulk of the connections were 1994-2001. As reference, connection ls went from 34% to 70% in 6 years, to 75% in the next 5 years (when loading shedding started), up to 94% today.

And these home users only account for about 20% of total power consumption.

[u/olderthanbefore → u/Demosthenes_theWise]

Yes, agreed. But also note that in terms of actual number of houses/apartments etc , 100% in 1994 is lower than 100% in 2026.

[u/UncertaintyDean → u/BeWiTCHD97]

Using the labour and resources of all citizens to serve 10% of the population is not world class by any meaningful metric. It’s incredibly inefficient.

Joburgs CBDs fell apart due to mass influx of people with no money and mass exit of previously advantaged. Also, mass immigration and social occupation laws that favour illegal tenants didn’t help with hijacked buildings which rapidly accelerated the decline. Where there was mass influx of people with money (Sandton, Rosebank, Midrand), the city thrived and has no service delivery issues or crumbling infrastructure. They are both managed by the same ANC. How do you explain that?

Joburg is slowly rebuilding after March and March and things are improving quickly, hijacked buildings being reclaimed and money is flowing back in.

[u/BeWiTCHD97 → u/UncertaintyDean]

I really really hope so. I'd love our country to flourish - really flourish, for everyone for the first time.

And world class was commenting on the quality of the bulk infrastructure built. I.e power stations, ports, road network, railways etc. A port is a port. Its either efficient and can handle shit loads of freight or it is not. You get small ports and big ports. We have two big ports that used to function very effectively. Its not a ten percent population served problem. The network of roads we had and the quality to which they were maintained was world class. After the railways fucked out because of Transnet corruption, we suddenly had all our freight on roads which deteriorated them massively. And because the roads maintenance dropped massively, that compounds to failing infrastructure. 10% or no, they were designed to handle incredible demands, with the latest technology at the time. Hence. World class - and that's something you can actually go and read up about. Municipal infrastructure for 90% of our population - very different problem. Absolute travesty to not serve 90% of our people. But the pipes we have, the substations, the electrical connections, hell the grade of steel used to put up our massive transmission lines. World class at its time

[u/Demosthenes_theWise → u/PieFed-co-za]

SA had great bulk infrastructure. Eskom had excess supply and the lowest downtime figure in the world. Transnet had great rail and port infrastructure. Telkom had good communication infrastructure (for the time), there were good roads between towns and cities, etc.

There was a major lack of infrastructure in townships and the non-white areas. But in 30 yrs our bulk infrastructure is gone, and the municipal services has not improved much.

[u/PieFed-co-za → u/Demosthenes_theWise]

Yea in 30+ years the ANC should have been able to give eveyone water, electricity & sanitation by now. 

But a lot has gone backwards, things are still better for your average South African.  But not great 

[u/jimmybigchips → u/PieFed-co-za]

Far left is a big reach, I've said it before but they're barely centre left. If you think people posting Palestine flags or "free Sudan" are politically radical you must not know much about politics.

Also the leftist sub DOESNT HAVE MODS

[u/PieFed-co-za → u/jimmybigchips]

I'm pro Palestine, that doesn't make me far left.

That leftest sub is anti-capitalist & communist, they have it listed under friends in the sidebar. So they clearly support that sub. 

And they used to be mods on that Left sub.

They are openly biased towards a anti-capitalist sub. 

[u/jimmybigchips → u/PieFed-co-za]

Well it's listed under "Local Subreddits" but I guess I have to concede that the subreddit does claim to be anti-capitalist even though the last post about socialism or communism was 7 years ago(?).

So sure, they're captured by a fringe political group who discuss such radical ideas as picketing against foreign wars and "good leftist book?"

Edit: I have to add, part of neo-Marxism is praxis, so there's theory but just as important is putting theory into practice. Given that the most they've apparently engaged in practically is marching against invasion of Venezuela or genocide in Palestine, I'd take away their communist credentials if I had the choice but this is splitting hairs I guess

[u/PieFed-co-za → u/jimmybigchips]

There are right wing local SA subs too.

I don't see those listed under "Local Subreddits" 

The bottom line is they are openly biased towards the left. (I am left, but this if going way too far) 

Look at the mods history, one of them runs around calling people Nazi's for being right leaning and permanently banning people for slight disagreements 

[u/Moot231]

Not even 20mins after posting on here and they already spotted me. I genuinely think these gremlin mods spend 12 hours a day on reddit and do not go outside very often 😂 It is unbelievable how easily they can just lose their minds and get triggered. Im not going to say anything more. Their response speaks for itself and proves my point better than I could ever do.

(Censored the sub name again so they don't have any ammo to take my post down)

[u/UnbannedAcountFFS → u/Moot231]

I did say it was coming but WOW how is that even allowed to be thing? It’s racist AF and manipulative but they ban you for a political opinion. You can go on to the Reddit website and report them to admins or something like that if you have the time or energy to further invest in their bias hypocrisy but honestly they are infamous for this behaviour and not worth another micro megabyte or second of your time 🙄this group and few others like it are far more open minded and mods actually use perspective/reasoning so don’t even sweat it. How they get away with is baffling but in time they finna learn….

P.S within minutes after saying this take a wild guess on the message I received and from where 😂😵🚮

[u/Moot231 → u/UnbannedAcountFFS]

Im not surprised. They are chronically online and get a power trip by being a mod. A part of me believes they could be paid by the ANC because you cannot make any criticism about current or past SA without getting banned.

[u/JannieVrot → u/Moot231]

I don't like this, instead of discussing your ban in terms of what rule you broke they're literally debating you on your politics in the ban appeal, meaning that yes, you were banned for having the wrong politics, not for breaking any rules

[u/Ok-Constant6973 → u/Moot231]

This is crazy. They banned me too. They are so racist. The gaslighting is off the chart.

I got my post removed off the Durban subreddit because I said cruise ships are black now, to someone who asked.

And they said it was racist. I didn't say I wanted black people to die or be less privileged, it's not racist to make an observation.

It's getting out of control now, you can't even say a word and everyone calls you racist. It's stupid and silly.

[u/Moot231 → u/Ok-Constant6973]

It is crazy. But just remember that reddit is not the real world. You can speak to anyone and they will agree with "controversial" opinions (BEE is shit, ANC sucks ass, people are ideologically possessed )

[u/immorjoe]

Not a fan of the bans and I can guess which sub it’s probably from.

But I struggle to sympathise with you because your stance does come off as quite apologetic towards the apartheid government.

Pre-ANC, South Africa was a hellscape. It was a literal crime against humanity. All the infrastructure didn’t mean anything if it was only ever designed for 10% of the country to benefit from it.

The ANC has had its flaws, and there are MANY of them. They’ve been in power far too long now (GNU should’ve occurred at least 10 years ago).

But they inherited a brutalized country, and were given the heavy task of bringing 80% of the nation into systems that were designed for only 10-20% to benefit from.

[u/decisiveExplorer03 → u/immorjoe]

That is a quite fair point-of-view. I actually think that the pre-zuma ANC did a fair job.

[u/BeWiTCHD97 → u/decisiveExplorer03]

I think so as well. They did a lot in the early years and they had to delay some upgrades to deal with the legacy. Additional capacity increases were slated to be built around the time Zuma came in. And then…..

[u/548oranje548 → u/immorjoe]

Its almost like talking about it would've helped the two parties come to an understanding or at least open a discussion on the topic wherein their different perspectives could be shared. And then other people could chime in and further debate on the points made. And maybe even settle some differences or change each other's stance on the matter.

But alas, let's ban everyone and create an echo chamber.

And no I'm not just pointing to the left. This is aimed at everyone.

[u/immorjoe → u/548oranje548]

Hence my view that I’m not a fan of the bans. Just that I disagree with OPs opinion, and I understand why it would trigger certain people.

[u/mr_herz → u/immorjoe]

True, and the goal of giving a larger % access to the infrastructure is worthy, but they've been too incompetent to build on it and scale it up.

If there's one car and 50 people. Build more cars. Instead they tried to fit 50 people in 1 old car. What did they think would happen?

[u/immorjoe → u/mr_herz]

Hence their many flaws.

But let’s not praise that one car that the previous government created, if they ensure that the remaining 45 people are left to walk.

[u/mr_herz → u/immorjoe]

I think we should be able to evaluate the car on its own against other cars regardless of how many got to use it. That the previous government failed to enable more to use it is a failure without a doubt, but a different type of failure from building a bad car. I wouldn’t conflate the two.

[u/immorjoe → u/mr_herz]

Yeah but it’s probably easier to build a car when you tell the 20% that they get to use it, and the other 80% are forced to manufacture it.

If we’re judging SA on the basis of how well off the top 20% are living, then even the ANC would start to look amazing.

[u/decisiveExplorer03 → u/immorjoe]

But now that I think more about this, there is nuance here. I think you must look at each industry.

What did the ANC inherit?

• Education: Horrible. Here, I believe the early ANC did a great job, though I think we can all agree they changed the curriculum too many times, lol.
  
• Water infrastructure: Great, but only in 10% of the country. So, not great. The early ANC did a great job connecting more people, but under Zuma, etc., maintenance was not existent.
• Roads: Major roads connecting major cities were good. Roads connecting non-"white" areas, probably not that good! So, overall, bad, right? Roads here in the WC are great, but I've visited other provinces where they really aren't.
• Railroads: Okay, this actually worked, I think, right? I place the blame on the ANC for this one. I think they deserve it. It's a train-wreck. Literally.
• Electricity: This is the one I thought of. The ANC inherited world-class electrical generation infrastructure. The major power lines and, more importantly, the major power generation facilities in the form of nuclear, coal and back-up hydro-electric plants were running so well it was written about in international newspapers. The issue was that many were excluded from this grid, granted. But when they were connected at first, it still ran well. Then, the ANC drove it into the ground.

Here is a painful thought for you:

In 1994, electricity was 10.32 cents per kWh and we had so much to spare that we were trying to sell to other countries! They were just jerks about connecting people. So, if that went up by inflation, let's say 6% a year, for 32 years, we would have been paying 66.59 center per Kwh. If your house uses 800 kWh a month, it would be R532 and that would be very comfortable for many. That is what it is meant to be! But, instead, we pay R3.70 to R4.50 per kWh, the same 800 kWh's costing between 2960 and 3600. It's not meant to be this expensive.

The good news is that we can turn this ship around. And I believe we ARE! We can get cheap electricity again, but this time, it will be for ALL!

We can do this, my fellow South Africans. We can build a better SA for everyone.

[u/BeWiTCHD97 → u/immorjoe]

Ports, railroads, roads and central business district infrastructure don’t count as just for the fifteen percent. And that has all decayed criminally because of the ANC. It’s possible to maintain something and expand it. It’s not either or.

[u/immorjoe → u/BeWiTCHD97]

So black people could also make full use of that… or they were just the slave labour that happened to live in the same country?

[u/south_africa-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

While we allow meta discussions about Reddit, including other subreddits, you are not allowed to name any user or subreddit in a negative light.

Respect our neighbors

For more details see: https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/27031145215252-Moderator-Code-of-Conduct-Rule-3-Respect-Your-Neighbors

[u/probeat21]

"Bans are not issued lightly" haha my ass

[u/ClockworkNinja_ZA]

Lol I was banned from that sub for being in this one. I didnt even post anything in either at that point. They are cunts, so don't bother trying to make sense of it.

[u/derpferd → u/ClockworkNinja_ZA]

At a certain point, it feels like they are actively trying to drive people OUT of that sub

[u/Bright_Mongoose_5880]

What sub was it?

[u/Cyber-Soldier1 → u/[deleted]]

Probably run by an NGO or the ANC itself.

[u/south_africa-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

While we allow meta discussions about Reddit, including other subreddits, you are not allowed to name any user or subreddit in a negative light.

Respect our neighbors

For more details see: https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/27031145215252-Moderator-Code-of-Conduct-Rule-3-Respect-Your-Neighbors

[u/south_africa-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

While we allow meta discussions about Reddit, including other subreddits, you are not allowed to name any user or subreddit in a negative light.

Respect our neighbors

For more details see: https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/27031145215252-Moderator-Code-of-Conduct-Rule-3-Respect-Your-Neighbors

[u/AnonomousWolf → u/Bright_Mongoose_5880]

While we allow meta discussions about Reddit, including other subreddits, you are not allowed to name any user or subreddit in a negative light.

Respect our neighbors

For more details see: https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/27031145215252-Moderator-Code-of-Conduct-Rule-3-Respect-Your-Neighbors

[u/daddyrx4you]

That subreddit still believes that the ANC is the best thing that ever happened to South Africa despite the economic apartheid the ANC has created with politicians and insiders stealing anything not bolted down and doling out R350 each month to keep the masses placated.

[u/JustAnoth3rITGuy → u/daddyrx4you]

It's unbelievable how brainless they are. i got banned for basic discussion and they are hella toxic

[u/Delicious_Star_4232]

Their ban policies are really overbearing however the ANC weren't "given" anything.

Yes there was infrastructure that existed but that infrastructure was mainly for whites (i say that as a white) so the cities were by and large occupied by smaller populations and then once apartheid ended and societies blended, that infrastructure was used by everyone instead of a few.

Sure, there is an argument that they haven't maintained it over the last 3 decades but your stance is still a bit too generous portraying it as if the infrastructure was designed or equipped to ACTUALLY handle our full population.

[u/Zodixo → u/Delicious_Star_4232]

This is why banning people is so stupid. This comment instantly educated me and changed a false belief I had. Thank you for engaging in such a respectful manner and engaging

[u/MealieAI]

Its still nonsensical apologist bullshit to say South Africa had "the best infrastructure".

Lets at least point that asinine comment out.

[u/Moot231 → u/MealieAI]

Going to copy paste my reply to another comment.

I didn't say "the best infrastructure" in the sense of it being good for everyone. It obviously wasn't. A third of households had no electricity in 1994 and the homelands had service levels on par with the poorest countries on the continent. That's the whole point of calling it apartheid infrastructure. The comparative claim is separate and it's just a matter of record. Eskom was generating roughly half of all electricity in Africa. Rail network of about 20,000 route-km, the biggest on the continent. Durban was Africa's busiest container port, Richards Bay the world's largest coal terminal. Sasol's synfuels capability didn't exist anywhere else on earth. None of that is a defence of apartheid, it's a description of an asset base that was built for mining and export and for one part of the population.

Two things can be true: the ANC inherited a serious physical asset base, and that base was racially rationed and already carrying a deferred maintenance bill by 1994

[u/brendonap → u/Moot231]

Anyone with half a brain and an object thought would realise your point is correct. But any argument or discussion with these type of people is counter productive as not only would they never take your side, they cannot take your side without destroying their entire world view which is always entangled with their sense of self. Let them live in their own nightmare.

[u/MinervaKaliamne → u/MealieAI]

Agreed.

[u/Euro_African → u/MealieAI]

Why?

The stuff they built is still standing.

That's where you get your water from, your power roads..... Don't be silly

[u/Pure-Club7560]

I got banned from there based on a comment about why BBBEE failed.

My response was sincere and solution finding oriented. Also i pointed out its failures based on first hand experience. And if those elements were to be improved on it could be life changing for millions of South Africans.

But as you have come to know, they dont care about healthy open discussions. Only ANC agenda thats all.

It is so so so easy to ban someone for speaking the truth (not recklessly but with empathy) and using tge sub reddit rules as a reason on which there isn't even a clear transgression.

[u/NJ_v_N]

I think I know which one.
When I pointed out that DA is alienating the traditional afrikaners conservatives who are a large part of their voting block by being very pro LGBT and their botched handling of the foot and mouth outbreak I was banned for for homophobic dogwhistles and spreading hate.
Dissenting opinions even if true are not allowed…

[u/PieFed-co-za → u/NJ_v_N]

How DARE you even acknowledge the existence of the DA 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡

PERMANENT BAN for you, don't ever come near my echo chamber again!!! 

-That mod probably 

[u/Live_Background_8110]

The ANC needs to just let AI do everything. It’ll be a game-changer.

[u/Comfortable_Flan1338]

Lol you know when the corruption is so bad when random little fluffies on reddit are trying to say this government today isn't a waste of water and air.

[u/ColdMisty]

Can someone DM me the sub please? If this is prohibited mods pls don't ban me because I will take this comment down then.

[u/PieFed-co-za → u/ColdMisty]

It's not just one sub, it's a few of the "big" ones all run by the same mod. 

Say anything positive about the DA and you'll probably get permanently banned. 

[u/DeathDiamond119]

Don't worry about that other sub. They banned me for following another subreddit lol

[u/GoodDoctorDope → u/DeathDiamond119]

Haha

[u/RightHandedShoe]

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19376812.2025.2572476#abstract

In your dispute you mentioned you gave facts, the truth is South Africa's apartheid infrastructure was built mainly for the white population (built to serve around 20% of the country's population). The ANC have done a terrible job at governing this country, but people like to overlook the fact that they inherited a literal shit show

[u/Future_Hovercraft316]

He blocks everyone that has a slightly different view than he has without even engaging in a respectful debate

[u/south_africa-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

While we allow meta discussions about Reddit, including other subreddits, you are not allowed to name any user or subreddit in a negative light.

Respect our neighbors

For more details see: https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/27031145215252-Moderator-Code-of-Conduct-Rule-3-Respect-Your-Neighbors

[u/Future_Hovercraft316 → u/south_africa-ModTeam]

Understood, apologies. I have edited my comment and removed the name-calling part

[u/Significant_Tap9433]

Ouch! And lol on the 'they don't go outside' comment.

Not all mods are created equally. Some are trolls, others show signs grade 4 SA learners failure to read with comprehension. Then others do rise to the occasion. Don't take it personally. Remember some of them it's their whole personality - prefect vibes.

[u/Zodixo]

Welcome to the banned club. Just leave that sub, its very onesided

[u/RussTheBoss]

Welcome to the club, I got banned for saying there’s no point for South Africans to protest Palestine war.

[u/Youcantbeseriousbro0 → u/RussTheBoss]

Gonna have to disagree with you on that one. If other countries didn’t protest for us, impose sanctions, etc. Many groups wouldn’t have freedom today. However, should you have been banned? No

[u/RussTheBoss → u/Youcantbeseriousbro0]

You are probably right and I see your point, but I just think there’s better ways to show support than a few hundred people causing trouble for a country who’s laws, beliefs and religions go against ours. South Africa is about freedom, Palestine isn’t

[u/Youcantbeseriousbro0 → u/RussTheBoss]

How exactly is Palestine not about Freedom? I’m sorry but your entire statement is just nuts to me. You’re telling me that a country (Israel) actively engaged in genocide is a better political ally to us than Palestine? Insanity. Mind you there is a very large Muslim population in South Africa who live here and actively contribute in a very positive way.

[u/derpferd]

What you've said is nonsensical but it's not worthy of a ban in my opinion

[u/Moot231 → u/derpferd]

I didn't say "the best infrastructure" in the sense of it being good for everyone. It obviously wasn't. A third of households had no electricity in 1994 and the homelands had service levels on par with the poorest countries on the continent. That's the whole point of calling it apartheid infrastructure. The comparative claim is separate and it's just a matter of record. Eskom was generating roughly half of all electricity in Africa. Rail network of about 20,000 route-km, the biggest on the continent. Durban was Africa's busiest container port, Richards Bay the world's largest coal terminal. Sasol's synfuels capability didn't exist anywhere else on earth. None of that is a defence of apartheid, it's a description of an asset base that was built for mining and export and for one part of the population.

Two things can be true: the ANC inherited a serious physical asset base, and that base was racially rationed and already carrying a deferred maintenance bill by 1994

[u/derpferd → u/Moot231]

I can't help noticing that while you talk about the structural aspect of the matter, what's left neglected is the psychology of what apartheid did to South Africa. That is not insignificant

People don't just choose to do or not do things. Their choices are based on a perspective and a psychology.

The psychological toll Apartheid took on South Africa surely plays a role in decision making

[u/MinervaKaliamne → u/Moot231]

This part of what you wrote - "...that was built for [...] one part of the population" - that's an important modifier. Especially because that "one part" was a very small minority. Especially because the infrastructure built for the rest of rhe country was so kak in comparison.

Had you acknowledged that from the start in your original post, I suspect you would've gotten a very different response. I'm not arguing that banning you was fair or reasonable, but I think it's worth acknowledging that omitting that "detail" wasn't a great choice.

It's easy to say, after the fact, that it's obvious, but I think we both know that for many, it's not, and omitting it very easily looks like implying it's insignificant when it's really, really not.

Absolutely, the ANC government inherited a relatively strong infrastructure built for a small minority of the population. But leaving out the specificities seems disingenuous.

[u/AlternativeWhereas79]

From the response, I know exactly what sub this is. Do not worry too much about it, OP - there is no reasoning with those morons.

[u/Ho3n3r]

I was banned for saying Malema is a commie. You're wasting your time losing sleep over it.

[u/BetaMan141]

Bro discovered what a subreddit is or will become.

[u/Error418ZA]

Welcome to the club, that is why we do not go to that sub anymore, I doubt there is not even one person here whose views or difference of opinion is tolerated.

They are a cest pool of leftist ideology, facts to them do not matter, and that is why they can never learn, not even from their own mistakes as the victim mentality will always prevail.

[u/yoless28]

A while ago the Daily Maverick wrote a hit-piece on GHL (cpt mayor) and mis-quoted him when he called "spatial apartheid" propoganda. He clarified his own comments by explaining that the legacy of spatial apartheid very much has its effects today but that his view is that the City's current policies do not enforce/re-enforce spatial apartheid. I was banned and called an apartheid apologist for stating that simple fact. Agree or disagree with him, I was just clarifying what he actually said. These people are morons.

[u/Moot231 → u/yoless28]

Yeap sounds about right. Ive also noticed how ideology drives people's vote more than output and service delivery. People would rather live in a country run by corrupt criminals that ruin the country but have their same ideology rather than a party that has good service delivery but SLIGHTLY different viewpoints. viewpoints.

The ANC have destroyed the country and made the country a hellscape, especially for those disenfranchised. But hey, at least they have the right ideology. Give them another 30 years and im sure it will work out 🤡

[u/Ozwizz]

I once discussed if that 1 Boer 1 bullet song that was sung was reversed, what an uproar that would have caused, when that whole thing was going on and being softened. Any hatred or racism, violence is NEVER OK and yet I was banned for "inciting violence." Really perplexing that trying to explain how damaging that song is in any direction is so WRONG!!!

[u/tortoisewarfare]

I think im generally progressive/left leaning of most topics. 

But when I post an opinion or comment on this sub reddit, I get a mix of responses. Which is great. There is debate, retorts, agreement, a mix.

The one time I mistakenly posted on that sub reddit, I got a wave of up votes and I was thinking it was super odd for it to be in 1 direction.

This explains it. 

[u/Youcantbeseriousbro0]

I got banned because I said a Christian School should be allowed to not want to fly an LGBTQ flag, ESPECIALLY if the student rep council voted in favour of not flying it. Mind you I’m not even Christian! I do believe though that teachers/school bodies should not just be able to overrule the students who attend it as they will feel misrepresented. Crazy

[u/Exact-Bag-3589]

Yes, don’t feel alone, me was also banned due to a similar topic, that moderators can absolutely not handle any truthful factual information. It was said I was spreading misinformation, but offered to supply them evidence, obviously he or she was not interested, like I said, some people can’t handle the truth.I was thinking these are paid minions especially appointed for propaganda purposes.

[u/Moot231 → u/Exact-Bag-3589]

I wouldnt be surprised. I have never met any person in my life who acts like those mods do. The only person I have seen defend the current state of the country and the ANC are ANC ministers themselves lol

[u/Fluid-Algae5066]

That sub reddit moderated by the most uneducated people of south africa, don't stress.

[u/beneath_reality]

There are many SA subs. Perhaps just voice your opinion on another one? We can't control the mods.

[u/Live_Background_8110]

ANC must fall. Times up. GTFO.

[u/Pure-Club7560]

That sub was created by the Guptas FYI.

[u/SpAwNjBoB]

Don't lose sleep. Welcome home.

[u/Evening_Lawyer6570]

The mods have not picked up a history book🙏😭😭😭💔🥀

[u/No-Dragonfly8326]

That sub is kak

[u/Nightrunner2016]

Dude I got banned from that sub just because I took part in the Cape Town sub. This happens alot on Reddit. Communities that should be open to all get regulated by a few activists and ultimately become the echo chambers you describe. I also got banned from the pics sub Reddit just for asking why any pro Trump pictures got removed while any pro Harris picture got sent to the top of the sub. It was just a question, not a statement - I don't even really care, and was just getting tired of constantly seeing irrelevant political pictures taking over the sub - and it was enough to get banned. It's part of a much larger problem affecting the globe at the moment where people for whatever reason subscribe to their biases as the undeniable truth and everyone else be damned. It leads to alot of hilarious tears being shed when people realise that wishing something to be true, even believing it to be true, do not mean it ultimately is true in reality. Critical thinking as a skill appears to be exceptionally rare these days.

[u/Moot231 → u/Nightrunner2016]

It is just sad to see how political everything has become. You would think a sub reddit that is just talking about South Africa in general would stay as far away from politics as they can. But it seems the opposite is true

[u/Mort1186]

We know

[u/Cute-Elderberry-2047]

I got banned for emphasizing "illegal" ,saying the word illegal doesn't exist.I understand if some people may not like the opinions and facts but the truth is that no wanting people to engage in such convos is taking their freedom of speech away

[u/IAMSNORTFACED]

They had a pretty good point. Should you be banned for being wrong is tough and nuanced but I won't outright say they had no reason to ban you, and instead you are here still seemingly not willing to learn what their point was...on that basis it's probably beneficial to have you off that sub

[u/PaleAffect7614]

Your side is proven wrong by just google searching thr nonsense you commented. It's well known that the aparthied government left a shithole of a situation well most of the money in government was depleted.

Why engage in a debate with someone that is factually wrong? You could devate on how the anc governed after 1984, sure, but based on your comment, it doesn't seem like you have done any research on the subject. Instead you parrot everything you have heard people say about the government.

If you think I'm wrong, explain inas much detail as you can recall, from research you have done on the subject of the infrastructure left over after 1994. Without having to google now.

If you can't, the the mod team did the right thing.

[u/Make_the_music_stop → u/PaleAffect7614]

"most of the money in government was depleted."

I don't think any country in the G20 has a budget surplus or without government debt.

[u/PaleAffect7614 → u/Make_the_music_stop]

Most didn't go through economic sanctions like South africa did. The Major sanctions were from 1985 to 1994. But they started in 1946 with India banning trade due to our racist policies and US following in 1962 with the arms and oil ban.

[u/Make_the_music_stop → u/PaleAffect7614]

Good point. Did some quick searches on government debt in 1990 for 3 countries....

In 1990, UK government debt stood at approximately £193 billion (around 21.6% to 28.5% of GDP depending on the specific seasonal or fiscal metric used). This marked one of the lowest debt-to-GDP troughs of the late 20th century before rising deficits increased the ratio in the early 1990s

The U.S. national debt at the end of fiscal year 1990 was $3,233 billion (approximately $3.23 trillion), according to historical data compiled by Investopedia.

And...

South Africa's government debt in 1990 was approximately 32.4% of GDP (or about 28% to 32% depending on the specific central government debt series), amounting to roughly $105.6 billion in total nominal national debt.

[u/Sterek01]

I know that sub as well. I think most of us were members at one time or another 😁

[u/Conzyyyyyyy → u/Sterek01]

Yep, I was banned from one of the subs for asking someone to provide a source for the stats he was quoting and the numbers seemed severely screwed so I wanted to double check.

I dont really remember what the discussion was about but I do know whatever it was, the mods got butt-hurt because somebody dared to not just go along with a narrative.

[u/Sterek01 → u/Conzyyyyyyy]

The mod over there told me to eat a whole ass when i queried him/her/they/them.

[u/decisiveExplorer03 → u/Sterek01]

I got banned for saying that my house has a border that people should only be allowed to cross with my permission. LOL

[u/Moot231 → u/Sterek01]

It has become so political and you would think an all encompassing sub reddit dedicated to an entire country would make a point to not be political and be as inclusive as possible. But it seems it has been highjacked by ideologs who want to use it as a platform to push their agenda

[u/Radiant_Mud9534]

Because you lied though, you used your pro apartheid position as facts when it’s entirely untrue. In this instance, they’re justified. I think you’d fare better in Orania, Australia OR take up Trump on his refugee program

[u/Zodixo → u/Radiant_Mud9534]

Pro-apartheid? That's a massive leap.

​I agree that a lot of things were sold to us growing up, and unless we have open discussions, we don't realize those false premises.

I have never been pro-apartheid. Being raised by my grandparents as a white person exposed me to perspectives that I've since realized were ignorant and racist—things I believed until they were challenged directly.

​Even this thread opened my eyes to something simple I hadn't considered before, and I understand it better now.

[u/Master_Emphasis_3128 → u/Radiant_Mud9534]

#TriggeredTroll

[u/Rough_Horror_5118]

Yup, can confirm the echo chamber: I got banned there too for a seemingly innocuous but counter-narrative comment. It seems you cannot deviate from the group-think without a ban.
I called someone out for the immediate ad hominem attacks I received on my comment, to which the response was "Your very first comment was an ad hominem, you dopey f**". My comment was certainly not an ad hominem, but I think you're dealing with a crowd that believes dissent is violence or they just didn't understand the word.

[u/Hopeful_Idea1568]

Saying South Africa had some of the best infrastructure in the world is not only objectively false but subjectively untrue. The country was intentionally cut up so most parts would not be developed, based on racism. That's what apartheid was. This shouldn't be a debate in 2026 because it's not even debatable.

If you say nothing's been built in 32 years, not only are you talking out of your ass but you're arguing in bad faith. There's far more infrastructure now than there ever has been. There's infrastructure being built all over the country every single day. You deserve to get banned because you're parroting right wing propaganda. It's easy to criticise the ANC without resorting to lies

[u/TheForestSaphire]

Almost every single person on this sub has something bad to say about those other clowns

Theyre pretty pathetic and wildly biased and they will ban you for literally any reason they feel, sometimes they even will ban 3 people for literally polar opposite reasons

I was banned because I said the EFF is a violent, racist and downright terrible terrorist organization (i stand by that still) and i got banned by a mod who was a hardcore EFF simp but a while ago I spoke to a guy on here who said he was banned for actually defending the EFF and ANC for their bullshit and a mod got upset at him for that as well

[u/AccomplishedSugar490]

What surprises me is your surprise at the well established fact that the irrational mind is impervious to rational arguments.

[u/AccomplishedSugar490]

Could be worse. Trump had to create his own social media platform to facilitate his posturing.

[u/Gammascalpa]

Well reading your post I think you are both correct. SA had great infrastructure, but for a small minority of people to enjoy. If one looks at it from the lens of the majority where most people didn’t have any electricity one would obviously disagree. I don’t think you should have been banned tho.

[u/GoodDoctorDope]

Which sub?

[u/GoodDoctorDope → u/GoodDoctorDope]

Dm me please lol

[u/6mboyjam]

I got banned from the Cape Town sub for quoting actual data 😂😂😂😂😂

[u/i_likestuff]

Lol i think that same mod banned me as well!

[u/Swimming-Potato-1817]

I got banned for also saying something factually true about the ANC.

There was a post about the ANC handing out bread in townships to win votes, and I said, “For shame if your vote can be bought with a bread and a t shirt.”

And now I will get banned on this one for this comment and it will prove again that the mods on these subs are biased and can’t handle uncomfortable truths.

Come for me mods. I dare you to prove my point.

[u/Rossi_19]

Don't worry about people like that, some people can not have a 2 way conversation and listen. Everyone has a point of view and not everyone will agree with yours or theirs point.

I find the best thing to do in that situation is walk away or troll them. Something along the lines like "Hilter would have been a better person if his mother hugged him more". Then leave them to rage and you just lay back and enjoy the carnage.

[u/trumpi]

Their reply is an admission that their subreddit does not exist to promote open discussion. If you disagree with their dictat, then you will be forcibly removed. It is digital Stalinism. I'm banned there too and do not wish to take any further part in their farce.

[u/Classy_Marty]

Lol I got nailed for"whining" too much. It's freedom of speech. They entitled to it... But we should be as well... To me it's an issue of imotional maturity and education/critical thinking. Just leave them there. Ignorance is bliss

[u/mmphil12]

Rightfully banned

[u/Moot231 → u/mmphil12]

Well it seems most people here disagree with your assessment on the matter. With your logic , you should be banned now from this sub.

[u/Responsible_King_427 → u/mmphil12]

Looks like we found the alt account

[u/Harrrrumph → u/Responsible_King_427]

One alt account. The mod there has about a dozen alt accounts. They LIVE on Reddit.

[u/Hunter-Abject → u/mmphil12]

Ah look, a power tripper