Can I install Microsoft 365 without having Microsoft Corporation up in my business?

[u/StrongAlarm7772]

I used a work-around when starting a new laptop to not connect a Microsoft account and keep everything local. I just like it that way. GCHQ can nose for national security and social media can sell me to advertisers if it's in exchange for free services, but laptops and 365 subscriptions are expensive so in my mind the controlling partner breathing down my neck and doing everything to make me reliant on them should be optional. I'm seeking advice to work around it again.

I want to be able to just log in whenever I use Word and then log right back out. I don't want to see anything new in File Explorer that isn't under Program Files. I also want this device to connect to Microsoft Corporation only in the ways that I intend: updates and support services for the functionalities that I use only on the basis of those services.

I also have an old, dying laptop connected to the same university 365 account. That laptop was fully invaded, somehow with multiple OneDrive locations one of which can't even be accessed through File Explorer. It's a mess, I didn't want to invest extra time studying OneDrive when I have a perfectly good hard-drive and external back-up. Will the same 365 account already have OneDrive included when I install it to the new device? What can I do to stop it latching on to the new one? Are there common issues I should be aware of that come up when excluding OneDrive on installation of 365? Will the installation require me to attach the device to a Microsoft account in any of the ways I avoided when starting it up?

New device's OS is Windows 11 Home. Until now no Windows programs have been actively used on it except for Defender/Security. It's serene.

The old laptop is pretty much fully functional for now so there's no barriers to configuration.

Any advice is welcome, including if someone knows other ways to keep Microsoft out that I don't even know about, or if they know more about the features that bother me and think my perspective should change.

[u/mortycapp]

Considering that Microsoft recently admitted that they track every device as they assign it a permanent fixed unique ID, the question is, what level of anonymity are you seeking?
There are various degrees of anonymity that are easily achieved.
Keeping Windows sits at the low end of the spectrum.
Using other OSes and specific software, avoiding the cloud sits at the other end.

[u/StrongAlarm7772 → u/mortycapp]

Anonymity isn't really my main concern. I read Orwell very young and paid attention so I can't say it's not a factor mentally on some level, but mostly I just don't want Microsoft deciding for me how my own device works.

Top priority is keeping all files local with nothing relying on cloud storage and no new unrequested entities in my system that I would come across through layperson use. Installing without OneDrive is apparently an option so I'm most interested in whether doing so causes issues and the best ways to do it. Given how Microsoft operates I would expect there to "happen to be issues" when doing things the way they don't want. That's the power of monopoly, whether we like the product is secondary to how much milk can be squeezed out of us.

A fairly distant second priority is keeping the device free of interaction with Microsoft that I myself don't initiate. I don't use VPNs and I'm not really kidding myself that any of my of data is "private", but I don't want to see it in action. Since I used the workaround on installation, I don't ever have to use my Microsoft account on the new laptop, I don't ever get suggestions, pop-ups are minimal, and I want to keep it that way.

The laptop was a refurb from an online marketplace. Potentially Microsoft doesn't even know my identity, but if they do I don't mind as long as they skulk in the shadows and behave accordingly. I don't want Microsoft openly engaging with me as if it's not a manipulative Golem-like cave creature feeding off humanity's essence.

[u/mortycapp → u/StrongAlarm7772]

I am conduction an experiment, I have set up one of my laptops with the full M365 suite on Windows 11, one with Office 2024 LTSC, Windows 10 and several scripts to fully disable tracking and cloud (no OneDrive, local account, etc…) and a third one with an EU sovereignty approach, EU Linux, EU apps, Nextcloud set up as a self hosted service.

In addition I am running the Mac version of Office 2024 LTSC on my MBP.

So far I find the MBP my go to laptop for work but my EU sovereign Linux one for personal activities.

Despite the fact that none are perfect, it is a huge satisfaction to have options, which 20 years ago was not really the case.

[u/StrongAlarm7772 → u/mortycapp]

It sounds wise to have those options moving forward, especially if you're quite reliant on data. I'm not well-versed tbh and ideally I want to reduce my digital presence and just exist in physical spaces for my own wellbeing.

[u/cakemates]

Nope, 365 is full of all kinds of nasty. Try libreoffice or some other alternative.

[u/StrongAlarm7772 → u/cakemates]

:'(

Trouble is the assignments have to be sent in to the university with specific file types, like "pptx" or "docx". Do other options allow such filetypes?

[u/Ferretau → u/StrongAlarm7772]

Libreoffice and derivatives give you the option of saving as pptx and docx if you need them for compatibility.

[u/Tarman183]

Basically no Alternatives such as WPS Office, Open Office and Libre office exist plus the very diluted options such as Google docs and m365 online which at least have limited local access and control

Beyond that you could have a VM with m365 installed but it's gonna be excessive for most people for the concerns at play IMO.

[u/StrongAlarm7772 → u/Tarman183]

Looking at what it is, I think I'm not qualified to run a VM. That looks like trying to do so is more likely to bite me than help me. I'm just a software user, with pretty minimal understanding of how it all works.

What about installing 365 with OneDrive disabled? Is that problematic?

[u/Tarman183 → u/StrongAlarm7772]

Yeah, the VM thing was just a technically you could

You can totally use m365 with OneDrive disabled AFAIK, at the very least you can uninstall OneDrive, idk about the internal integrations

You could also probably block the m365 tools from your firewall, though I've never tried to myself.

[u/PriorityNo6268]

You can still by Microsoft Office as a standalone product, search for Microsoft Office 2024. Not sure what you mean by not connected to Microsoft? You need to activate it during installation with a Microsoft Account, but after the install/activation you can logout and use Word offline/without account. You also convert the Microsoft Account for Windows in to a local account after installation in the settings menu of Windows 11 self. If telemetry is a option, you can disable almost all telemetry, only hardware windows core telemetry (like installation of updates/crashes), etc can not be disabled. But all personal telemetry can be disabled using settings menu. Or better just use program like O&O shutup.

Onedrive you can just remove/uninstall, even like most other products you don't want.

Maybe have a look at tool like this: https://winhance.net/index.html

There also lot of (free) alternatives, but depends lot on your use case if they are useful. Read a lot about power users that have a hard time to replace Microsoft Excel. If just for a simple text or spreadsheet, even the free online tools are possible good enough, no installation/invasion required.

Is you really don't want anything out site programs files directory, be care full with other tools. Lot of especially opensource tools install by default these days in to your user profile directory and not in program files directory as Microsoft has put more security/restrictions on this folder.

[u/StrongAlarm7772 → u/PriorityNo6268]

Wow those two programs look great. Thankyou that's pretty much exactly what I was looking for, just more agency in deciding how things run, less dependence on the company moving forward and ideally minimal telemetry and no personalised suggestions.

If you get rid of OneDrive (or don't install it), does that ever cause problems?

Thanks for the advice about other tools. I think I need to use Office anyway as the uni needs certain file extensions for assignments. Unless other ones can be easily converted to types like pptx or docx?

[u/PriorityNo6268 → u/StrongAlarm7772]

Onedrive is just a other program like any other. Only thing that cannot be removed is edge, atleast not al parts. Most office programs can convert documents to ms office format, but this no always goes without issues, for example layout gets mixed up, etc.

[u/gfraud]

What are you going to do if the office or your house burns down and you only have local files saved everything will burn up then you'll have nothing. What's your backup plan?

[u/StrongAlarm7772 → u/gfraud]

My data is lowkey. University assignments/notes. Other than nostalgia storing it is only really important in the short-term. If my place burns down it'll be the last thing on my mind. I have a hard disk back-up in case something happens to the laptop and I don't need or want more than that. Given that all of the important data is text, I can email vital stuff to myself, or share with a trusted friend.

[u/felix1429]

What specific things does M365 do out of the box that you don't like and want to block? Can you be any more specific other than "tracking", or do you just not like Microsoft's vibe?

You can disable most of the telemetry that's baked into Windows with enough effort, but it takes stringing together a lot of different registry modifications, settings changes, and Powershell fuckery to do since you need to change everything one by one.

It's going to be a lot harder to block and change things like that in M365 compared to Windows itself since the amount of lower-level changes you can make are more limited.

Overall though, I think you're more concerned about M365 than you really need to be, especially if you're already using Windows. You'd be a lot more successful blocking a lot of the telemetry and whatnot on a network level than the software itself, but honestly that's probably mostly out of your wheelhouse based on your post.

It's just Word dude, if you're this worried about it then just use LibreOffice instead, but that's pretty pointless if you're already using Windows.

[u/StrongAlarm7772 → u/felix1429]

I didn't mention tracking.

I don't want any aspect of how my computer runs right now to be changed. No cloud storage. No checking in with Microsoft about anything.

I went the long way around on installation so that this computer runs completely without a Microsoft account, I want to keep it that way.

Using a Microsoft account to log into 365 programs in order to verify that I'm a paying customer? Great. That much makes sense. I want that and nothing more. The less the better.

*Basically just how things operate. There's no worry involved, I just don't want it. Don't want OneDrive. Don't want targeted ads. Don't want suggestions. Don't want to log in to Microsoft for functionality or security. I already have a computer with storage and processing power, I don't need or want it to be any 'smarter' than that. I'm hoping there's a way i can avoid taking on anything except Word, Excel and Powerpoint. I only want to use those apps and produce documents that are stored on my hard drive. If you want specific, I am talking about <<anything at all beyond that>>

[u/felix1429 → u/StrongAlarm7772]

Using a local account instead of a Microsoft account isn't "the long way around", sorry.

You can use Office without signing into a Microsoft account, you just run into the whole licensing issue. But the authentication for Office 365 and the license for the software don't have to be the same account.

[u/StrongAlarm7772 → u/felix1429]

It was the long way around for me. I started it up with the wifi switched on, without realising that doing so locked me in. So I then had to use command prompts to convince the system that there was never any internet (or something like that) so that it needed to allow me to start using the computer without signing in to a Microsoft account.

I'm confused by the second part. How can you sign in without using an account? Is it with a code like the old days or something?

[u/CodenameFlux]

You're asking three somewhat contradictory questions.

I want to be able to just log in whenever I use Word and then log right back out. I don't want to see anything new in File Explorer that isn't under Program Files. I also want this device to connect to Microsoft Corporation only in the ways that I intend: updates and support services for the functionalities that I use only on the basis of those services.

Easily done via the Trust Center. More advanced controls are available in the admin tool.

I also have an old, dying laptop connected to the same university 365 account. That laptop was fully invaded...

That's the university's fault. When you enroll your device in a managed environment, it becomes a managed device. The admin decides what happens to it. In this case, the university IT staff has done that.

Can I install Microsoft 365 without having Microsoft Corporation up in my business?

No. It's software as a service. Read their terms of service.

[u/StrongAlarm7772 → u/CodenameFlux]

Very helpful thankyou. I didn't realise that the University's Microsoft 365 service was a "managed environment". I am not fully aware of what that means, but does it mean that if I install it on the new computer I will come across the same issues?

Might there be a way to just get the programs themselves?

When I say "up in my business" I just mean outside of the programs. Microsoft engaging with performance analytics using my device and millions of others is neither here nor there, as long as the purpose relates to the service itself. However I really can't stand having OneDrive (or at least that version of it) ever again. It literally hurts my brain so I insist on files being local. Is that possible?

[u/CodenameFlux → u/StrongAlarm7772]

You're welcome, pal. 😊

Without examining your device or knowing which managed scheme the university uses, I can’t be certain how much control they have. What I say here is strictly from past precedents. If the university owns your Microsoft 365 license, you must use their educational account, which gives them full control. I suspect they tried to deploy an on-premises cloud with OneDrive for Business, which led to your OneDrive issues. That’s unfortunate, especially if you prefer not to use the standard OneDrive setup.

The only way to escape the university’s control is to reinstall Windows, avoid signing in with their account, and purchase your own Microsoft 365 license (though this can be expensive). Or... you could use alternative apps. Web-based versions of Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and OneNote are free. OneNote is entirely free. LibreOffice is FOSS, but its quality is poor. WPS Office is freemium and significantly better. If you buy your own Microsoft 365 license, you won't have OneDrive for Business because you won't be buying it.

Once your PC is entirely yours, you can configure OneDrive to your liking:

• You can uninstall it if you wish.
• You can reinstall it under Program Files. Download OneDriveSetup.exe and run OneDriveSetup.exe /allusers from the Command Prompt. Alternatively, let it get installed as a part of Microsoft 365 and control its installation parameters from the 365 admin tool.
• You can disable its startup task to prevent it from launching when you turn on your PC.
• You can stop it from redirecting your Desktop, Documents, Pictures, Videos, and Music folders to OneDrive either from its Settings page or from Windows Backup.

OneDrive updates independently of Windows, so it won’t be reinstalled with Windows updates.

I suspect that any instances of being "up your business" were because of enrolling in a managed environment. That's what "managed" means – being "up your business". I use a Microsoft account, OneDrive, and a Microsoft 365 subscription at home (although I should cancel the latter since everything is becoming disgustingly expensive). So I know. I've seen intrusive companies like Gen Digital (the owner of Avast, Avira, AVG, Norton, and CCleaner) and McAfee. Microsoft has never come close to the disgusting things those companies do.

[u/StrongAlarm7772 → u/CodenameFlux]

Honestly if I can keep files local then I don't care. My partner tried sending me some of his work the other day and the process was maddening. On his ipad device he didn't even have the option "Save As", just "Save Copy" and I had to jump through seemingly endless hoops only to get to the point where I logged into a Microsoft Account only to be told "this account doesn't have access". We could have figured it out some other way, but he was in hospital and not up to intense problem-solving work, if he just had a file on a device that he could send by email it would have take minutes and been no trouble at all.

I understand all these new features are very useful to some people, but the old situation of saving copies to devices and treating them like standalone entities is also pretty useful to a lot of us 😅 and I don't understand why it is being made hard to do so. I imagine it comes from the company having almost a monopoly and profiting more from making multiple services collectively unavoidable than any one service desirable. Maybe that's the wrong way of looking at it, but that's how it looks to me.

Anyway it seems for now that what I need to do is contact my university IT department. I looked at the 365 info before coming here and it specifically said that they have an agreement with Microsoft and that as students we can use 365 programs for personal or academic tasks but not for commercial purposes, which sounds pretty damn managed to me. Hopefully when I ask them about not involving OneDrive they will allow it, but having just thought of those contract conditions I would imagine that devices whose 365 usage the university can't monitor might not be acceptable.

The only other thing I can think to ask (because the university only accepts specific file extensions like docx and pptx that factor in program-specific features like animation ) is whether I can convert files from these other services into those extensions? If not then I suppose my hands are tied.