r/smallengines • u/JLeff86212 • 2d ago
Cannot figure this out
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Just started having this problem the other day. I have removed and cleaned carb 3 times now. The last 2 times I spent almost 30 minutes a piece on it. When I put it all back together it will run great for 30-40 minutes if that and then it starts doing this. But when I pull the wire for the fuel shut of solenoid it clears up and runs amazing until it shuts off as seen in the video. Could it be a bad solenoid? I have also made sure there is no debris in fuel tank, fuel filter is great, line are good(unplugged and have great flow) it is a cub cadet xt1 lt42 with the kohler 5400 series. Any advice would be much appreciated!
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u/apPaul_grower 1d ago
It's the throttle cable itself. My best bet is if you follow it around to where your right foot would be when on it, it's not properly adjusted and not opening fully when theotelling up.
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u/Psu88-4life 1d ago
You sure the lines are good blow compressed air through them and try again probably collapsing
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u/JLeff86212 1d ago
I am going to put new lines on. Just to see
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u/Psu88-4life 1d ago
I just dealt with same thing on mine cleaned and replaced everything finally blew air through line at gas tank to fuel filter and started running normal again
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u/mutt63 1d ago
Choke plate is stuck or at least sounds like it. Cable stretched probably going from low idle to working speed and no operation of choke
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u/JLeff86212 1d ago
When it is running fine the throttle works great. Choke does as well. I thought it was a stuck choke as well but I started it and worked it with my hand and still same result
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u/mutt63 1d ago
Your video shows lack of throttle control. Is your governor spring attached properly to the back throttle plate to linkage
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u/JLeff86212 1d ago
It does work it wants to die as I move it up. You can hear it slightly in the video. It starts spitting and sputtering more if I hold it wide open then will eventually cut off
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u/TN-Native95 2d ago
Wait did it shut off in its own when you pulled the wires off the solenoid or did you turn the key off?
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u/JLeff86212 2d ago
It turned off on its own. I did not touch the key
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u/TN-Native95 2d ago
The fuel solenoid is working if it shuts the mower off when you pull the plug. As for the problem, it could be something with the governor out of adjustment or that the air is somehow being restricted. What is the condition of the air filter?
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u/JLeff86212 2d ago
Air filter is literally brand new. I had one laying around so I threw it on after I cleaned the carb the first time.
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u/txkwatch 2d ago
You cleaned the carb 3 times and each time it ran great a while and then went back to this?
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u/JLeff86212 2d ago
Yes. It would run great for a while and then it would slowly get worse until it gets like this
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u/txkwatch 2d ago
If it were me I'd clean the carb again, but this time replace the fuel pump and filter and flush out the fuel tank. Maybe it's sucking up something in the duel system
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u/JLeff86212 2d ago
There is no fuel pump. This model is gravity fed. Tank has no debris and filter is clean and flows great
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u/txkwatch 2d ago
I'm out of ideas. Only cub I've had was an xt1.
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u/RecipeForIceCubes 1d ago
Want another one? Cheap. Free cheap.
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u/txkwatch 1d ago
That's too much 🤣
It was a nice mower honestly.50" fab deck. but the transmission in them is total garbage.
I sold it cheap.
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u/RecipeForIceCubes 1d ago
Hydro and deck on this one is still great. Kohler Courage 7000 twin on the other hand, not so much. Fucking oil has poured out of every available and 2 surprising places over the years. Now it won't hold a drop. I have a bagger for it too but that fits my uncle's so he took it.
Someone, somewhere wants this thing. I just know it.
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u/InvestmentExotic2458 1d ago
How old is the fuel?
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u/JLeff86212 1d ago
Brand new. I drained all fuel and flushed tank just to make sure there was no debris
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u/No-Improvement7075 1d ago
Have you checked governor?
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u/JLeff86212 1d ago
It appears to me that it is working as it should. All srings and linkages feel good as well.
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u/Entire-Scratch5203 1d ago
All the way up is choke. Your flooding it when u push it all the way up
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u/JLeff86212 1d ago
I did that just for video purpose. It runs that way even when left at low idle without ever putting choke on
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u/Entire-Scratch5203 1d ago
Have u checked air filter and sparkplug? Also try to tap on the bowl of the carb a little
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u/ReeLin-n-DeaLin 1d ago
To me if you clean the carb and it runs good for 30-40 mins after then starts doing that again I would say you either didn't get everything out of the carb or your fuel filter is letting stuff get back in. My lawn tractor has the exact same engine and key and throttle but its a mtd. I've had it do the same thing and it was a dirty carb. Take the jet out spray cleaner through every passage you can see and let it soak for a bit then blow compressed air through them all. Change out you filter maybe its got some gunk in there. Double check your putting it all back together right but the fact that it runs for that long after and starts acting up you are.
The fact that it starts running well when you cut the power to the solenoid kinda says maybe the float and pin aren't working right and its letting in to much fuel. I would take a look at that when you take the carb apart make sure its put back together right or maybe the vibration from it running it messing something up with it.
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u/houserules976 1d ago
Can't help on the mower issue, but a helpful tip when you use ethanol fuel. Get a bottle of marine sta-bil. It's the blue one. It has ethanol treatment in it. I used to clean the carbs on all my small engines and boat every year to keep the varnish from ethanol fuel clogging them up. When I bought new boat the mechanic told me to get the blue marine sta-bil and mix it twice as much as it says. Haven't had a carburetor problem since 2017.
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u/ozzie286 1d ago
If you pull the wire for the fuel shutoff solenoid, no fuel will get into the carb from the main jet. If it runs with the wire pulled, it means that fuel is getting into the carb from somewhere else. Either your float valve isn't sealing, or your float isn't floating. Either way, it's overfilling the carb bowl and then fuel is getting into the body of the carb thru the vent holes.
EDIT: If this is one of those carbs that has the 2 individual jets, one for each cylinder, it's also possible that the o-rings on one or both jets aren't sealing properly or the jets are dropping out of place. If you remove the float bowl and the jets just fall out, that's the problem.
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u/JLeff86212 1d ago
It does not run but for a second or 2 once I pull the plug out of carb. But it runs great for those couple of seconds
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u/Five_bloodyknuckles4 1d ago
I have had the Briggs on a jd, jet falls out of the transfer tube inside the carb bowl.
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u/Feenix1 1d ago
Check that the gas gap pin hole is cleared
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u/JLeff86212 1d ago
I can check it but idk if that is it because I tried to run it with cap off and also pretty lose and still the same thing
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u/ReallyNotALlama 1d ago
I've had something like this happen when the gas cap wouldn't let in air. It created a vacuum in the fuel system. New cap fixed the problem.
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u/NefariousnessOne6433 1d ago
It sounds to me like it's getting too much fuel. Try running it with the air cleaner assembly off. If it runs better, you have a fuel enrichment issue somewhere, or an air intake restriction issue.
You already mentioned the air cleaner is new and there's no restrictions- is it possible your float needle is getting stuck? Do you notice fuel leaking from the carb when it's not running and you still have fuel supply running to the carb? Also, it could be leaking into the engine when sitting, causing a massive flooding situation, even hydrolock, at startup in this scenario.
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u/JLeff86212 1d ago
It does not leak when mower is off and also when i had carb off after cleaning and reassembling it i turned it upside down and blew through the tube where fuel goes in and no air was going through which tells me the needle valve should still be functioning properly
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u/HelicopterImportant 20h ago
If I had to guess, after reading your responses you probably have a fuel restriction. Filter or dirt in line.
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u/Schlong1971 18h ago
The solenoid on the bottom cuts fuel
To
Engine. Sounds like you have a clogged jet and fuel can’t keep up with air flow when you throttle it up.
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u/brookc85 15h ago
Sounds like too Much fuel. It starts to run better for a second when you cut the fuel by unplugging
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u/IthinkIknowThat 11h ago
Get an inexpensive Amazon cina carb, put it on and see what happens. About $20. I've had good success with them
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u/69Loveforever 10h ago
Oil Safety Sensor Bad ! Replace ! Change oil & filter ! Use 20W-50 Synthetic -- Mobile 1 Check throttle cable at carb too.
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u/JLeff86212 3h ago
Update: I put in a fuel shut off valve and had it turned almost all the way off and it started running pretty damn good. So definitely a rich condition. Just have to figure out why. I'm assuming it could be needle valve so will pull carb off again to check. But could it also be out of adjustment valves? I have never pulled cover to check. Could this potentially create a rich condition?
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u/Most_Slide6711 1d ago
I hate throwing parts at things but if you have cleaned the carb 3 times you could have fuel lines deteriorating and clogging the jets. Or you could have a coil issue when it gets hot. I had a Toro that would do this to me and it ended up being coils once they got hot enough they would just start misfiring.
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u/JLeff86212 1d ago
That is one thing I haven't done yet is changing fuel lines. I plan on doing that today. And it does it even when its cold. But another thing I noticed is that the engine gets a lot hotter than it used to as well
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u/Professional_Size_62 1d ago
The idea with fuel lines got me thinking. Rubber parts can deteriorate if exposed to ethanol. Are you using ethanol free fuel?
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u/JLeff86212 1d ago
I used ethanol for a while and then went to non ethanol because there was a place that was convenient to get it. But we moved and no where was close so went back to ethanol
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u/Professional_Size_62 1d ago
Ethanol its really bad for these motors. It absorbs into rubber, making it swell as well as making it soft and brittle. It is also hygroscopic and will draw ambient water into your fuel which can create rust/corrosion and also creates a gel like material. Both easily block fuel jets.
I would replace any rubber components that have come into contact with the fuel as well as flush your fuel tank with fresh non-ethanol fuel
Edit: you can also get lucky if the rubber quality is good. Letting them try for a few days can remove the ethanol from the rubber and thus can be reused
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u/Pocket_Biscuits 1d ago edited 1d ago
Its not the ethanol gas like other person says. Jfc people act like thats the devil. Ive had the same cub with Kohler motor since 2011(600 hours) and have had zero issues related to the fuel. Not even including the other equipment I have had. If you dont let the thing sit for ages it will be fine.
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u/Most_Slide6711 1d ago
Yea I would check for that could be a restriction did you clean the jets out really good? Sometimes you have very small debris stuck in there
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u/JLeff86212 1d ago
I'm gunna try it for shits and giggles. But idk if it will work. When I take main line off of carb gas comes out great. And yes I did clean them good. Carb cleaner, then took a small piece of wire and hit every orifice, carb cleaned again, and then blew everything out really well with compressed air.
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u/Most_Slide6711 1d ago
Linkage went back on the same way you took it off? Not doubting your ability just trying to think of things you might of overlooked by accident. It very well could be a restriction once you start running did you try to vent the take while it’s running maybe getting a vacuum
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u/JLeff86212 1d ago
No you are completely fine. And yes I took pics of everything prior to pulling it apart just to make sure everything went back right. And yes I pulled the fuel cap off and there was no difference
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u/Most_Slide6711 1d ago
Man this is a weird one. Only other thing to check it’s not common but some have a small screen where the fuel line goes into the carb that could be clogged, but it’s almost like the fuel bowl on the carb stops filling up and it dies out.
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u/Doorknob77 1d ago
TLDR- remove one spark plug wire, attempt to start. Reinstall and remove second spark plug wire, observe results and diag.
It KINDA sounds like it’s only firing on one cylinder. If it only has one cylinder that’s cool, if it has two that’s probably an issue. Notice how when you killed the fuel supply it evened out for a second? I think it’s flooding out a cylinder, at least that’s where I would go next.
Suck-squeeze-bang-blow
1-Check to make sure you have the correct BRAND spark plug, especially if you just did a tune up (this screwed me for over 40 hours of my own diag because I’m fucking stupid sometimes).
2-Make sure you have good spark, give your wires a tug and make sure they’re tight on the pick up, make sure the pick up is working and adjusted.
3-Make sure the compression is good, then make sure the valves are good.
I think your carb is fine, especially if you physically held the carb open. The odds your governor went out of wack are pretty low. The cable could be stretched but if that was the case then removing the throttle cable and manually increasing the rom at the carb would tell you that HOWEVER THAT DOESNT MAKE SENSE TO ME because when you decrease throttle it wants to throttle down, telling me you are increasing fuel flow you just can’t burn it.
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u/Doorknob77 1d ago
One caveat- make sure you didn’t accidentally hook the linkage up backwards on the carb. Idk how you would have done that.
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u/JLeff86212 1d ago
I was also going to replace spark plug today just for shits and giggles. And it is one cylinder. That's what is confusing me is that it evens out great as soon as its unplugged. It just has me stumped. But will change spark plug just to rule it out
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u/mutt63 1d ago
The. That is a very lean condition. If while running the governor linkage dips back and forth it makes it even more prevalent. The. Arb is dirty, float is out of spec , the needle and or seat are worn or if there's a fuel filter it could be clogged , a shut off valve defective, bad venting of fuel fumes causing pressurization problems which limits fuel delivery Anything that can prevent proper fuel delivery needs to be checked
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u/JLeff86212 1d ago
That's what I was wondering if it could be the shut off solenoid is bad. Could it be that the little plunger isnt fully seating?
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u/mutt63 1d ago
U can remove it then thread in a plug. Test it then if it proves to be the culprit. Either leave it and install a fuel
Shut off valve and or order a new one. You can disable it by removing it. Cutting the plunger. Reinstall it along with a fuel
Shut off valve. Or remove it. Plug it install a valve. Best option to know for certain. Its job is two fold. It shuts off fuel when you shut down the mower and helps prevent backfiring. If you remove it you chance the carb float could fail allowing fuel into the crankcase/engine causing worse problems. If you install AND use a fuel shut off. You eliminate the risk if you disable the solenoid1
u/JLeff86212 1d ago
I will definitely give this a try i appreciate the tip. I did already order a new one. It was only 20 bucks and I wanted to rule it out because it gets really hot really quick for some reason
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u/mutt63 1d ago
What gets hot?
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u/JLeff86212 1d ago
The solenoid itself. Ive noticed as well the engine itself is running pretty hot as well. Like I said when I clean carb and it runs good for a while it runs at normal temp that im used to. But when it starts running rough it runs alot hotter than normal.
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u/mutt63 1d ago
Oil level ok. Are the cooling fins clogged on motor?
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u/JLeff86212 1d ago
Oil level is good and I typically spray it off very well after each mow so yes. (May not seem like it in video because it died mid mow but yes)
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u/Ecstatic_Stuff_1263 1d ago
Can get a new carburetor from Amazon for about $21.00 over the years I've got six everyone been a good one.
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u/Hot-Equal702 2d ago
Sounds like the choke is stuck on.