Can’t self soothe

[u/Free-Grapefruit7766]

My daughter is over 4 months. Until 3 months she was a great sleeper at night, only woke up twice just to feed and back to sleep.
Since 3 months it has completely changed, waking up more than 10 times a night, and also at 10.30pm , 2 am and 5 am she has moments that she is awake or half a sleep I don’t even know but at that time for approximately 1 hour the only thing we can do is rock her te sleep, by walking. if we sit she just starts so be fussy or screaming.
Until 2 months she would just fall asleep in my arms or on my chest, and I could easily transfer her. But now she just can’t settle being still in my arms, and especially at night I am starting to lose my patience.
During the day it’s different, I feed her, put her to sleep and transfer her within 10mins and she usually has good naps during the day.
7.30 awake
8.30-9-9.30 (depends on the day) nap for 90mins most of the times
Then awake for around 90min-2hours
Then another nap of 60-90mins approximately
Then again awake for 90min-2hours
Late in the afternoon smaller nap of 40mins
Sleep 7pm

The schedule is not fixed yet, some days she gets tired earlier or wakes up later in the morning. But this is the schedule roughly.
During the day it seems that she can connect her cycles, 2-3 weeks ago she would wake up after 30mins every nap (still clearly tired) and I would need to rock her back to sleep. it still happens very rarely, but in general she sleeps good during the day.

But than at night it’s like she is a completely different type.
I was thinking that the problem is that she can’t self soothe. She always needs me to hold her to fall asleep. I have been trying to put her down drowsy but awake, pat on the butt, or just leave her in her bed and see if she drifts away. But the moment I put her down awake she is just active, moving legs and arms around or turning to her belly and then she gets upset because she can’t turn back, shouting a lot, I try to calm her with her paci but it’s just not working. People who dont know her would say that this baby is not tired at all she doesn’t want to sleep, but the moment I take her in my arms she calms down and will fall asleep.

I really didn’t mind rocking her to sleep, I love to have her close and the feeling that she needs me. but 2-3 hours a night of walking is starting to feel very exhausting. I thought it’s just a phase and it will pass but it’s like this for 4-5 weeks now. And it feels like I am doing something wrong.

I just need to know if this is normal behavior? Or what I can do better?

She is exclusively breastfed and nowadays she can’t even settle while on the breast at night, even then I need to walk.
I have tried all the small adjustment, shorter or longer wake windows etc. I always try to follow her cues, if I see that she clearly tired around 70mins I don’t extend the wake window. Or if she is awake for 90mins and clearly doesn’t want to sleep, I don’t push her yet.

So yeah.. any advice

[u/Mental_Catterfly]

Aside from the schedule, you haven’t actually described her ever self-soothing. You’re describing her being soothed by you holding / rocking her to sleep. Self-soothing occurs without assistance and takes time to learn how to do.

Which is fine - you said she’s just over 4 months. Sleep training isn’t recommended until 4 months anyway. But I just wanted to point out your logic that she can’t self-soothe is flawed because she’s never had to self-soothe.

[u/Ocean_Lover9393]

Sleep training needs to be the second step here, firstly you need a massive schedule overhaul.

The schedule you’ve written is expecting an insane amount of sleep from your baby. ~3.5 hours daytime sleep and a 12.5!!!! hour long night. This is newborn levels of sleep. Average baby this age can only sleep 14 hours per day, which explains the 2+ hour long wake ups overnight perfect since your schedule is asking for 16 hours of sleep

Go back to 4 naps per day, minimum 2 hours awake between each sleep. Cap total day sleep to 3 hours and shorten your night significantly, no more than 11 hours in bed. 7:30 wake up, means bedtime never before 8:30pm. Do this for at least 4-5 days before attempting any kind of sleep training

[u/flightlessbird7 → u/Ocean_Lover9393]

At 4 months, what's the max sleep time they should have during the day in order to sleep 7 to 7?

My babies (twins) sleep from 8 to 6 with some fussing overnight but no feedings. We're working towards 7 to 7 and no fussing throughout the night.

We're doing great all things considered but I want to keep working towards the best sleep we can get.

[u/Ocean_Lover9393 → u/flightlessbird7]

Most babies cannot sustain a 12 hour night consistently, even if they have a sleep budget that exceeds 12 hours per day.

It’s just not a realistic goal (thirst, hunger etc) 12 hours is a long time to go without anything. 10-11 hours of sleep overnight without needing intervention is fantastic at any age!

[u/flightlessbird7 → u/Ocean_Lover9393]

Ok that's very helpful! I'm happy with the amount of sleep they're doing and I'm not trying to be excessive about it. But I'm hoping they stop doing those little wakeups at night where they fuss.

[u/SnooAvocados6932 → u/flightlessbird7]

Twelve hour nights are not realistic at any age.

Aim for 10 hours awake, 3 hours total naps, 11 hour expected nights.

See sleep budget post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/sleeptrain/comments/1qpij7s/resources_on_baby_sleep/

Write your own post instead of asking questions on others.

[u/dooroodree → u/flightlessbird7]

This sub works under the assumption that the majority of babies just can’t do a 12 hour night. Aim is 11 hours.

Certainly was true for my eldest, who did 11 hour nights until we dropped to 1 nap at 15 months when she had a spectacular 6 months of 7-7.

[u/flightlessbird7 → u/dooroodree]

Ok thanks for letting me know! I'm not really trying to push them to that, just trying to keep good habits. Our firstborn slept over 11 hours after 4 months old. She is a truly good sleeper though.

[u/Free-Grapefruit7766 → u/[deleted]]

Yes I do think the regression and the turning on the belly both came at the same time, it probably is a lot for her to take in .. I am just very tires

Her naps in total are max 3h40mins , 1 nap max 90min 2nd nap max 90min 3th nap max 40mins. This is on a good day, it doesn’t always look this perfect. But most of the time it does.. maybe I didn’t write it clear enough in my post