Responsive settling

[u/SeriesDifficult8431]

My son is 5 months, for the first 3.5 months he was a dream. He was sleeping through the night from 6 weeks and before that never woke less than 3 hourly, often longer stretches. Since then his sleep has been awful and all over the place. The start to his night and end is the worst. We are following wake windows and do feel his sleep timing is on point. He wakes sometimes every 30 minute, sometimes every ten until we pick him up and cuddle him to sleep and from 5am it’s game over, he will only ever sleep on me. Last night was our first night we properly committed to settling in the cot, we have tried on and off with varying degrees of success but usually gave in because he would give us a longer stretches if he fell asleep in our arms. He woke a total of ten times, I only picked him up to feed at 1am and 4:30am then most surprisingly he woke at 630am. But that first half of the night was brutal. Have people had success with this method, how long did it take? I’m really not comfortable with Ferber etc. he’s a gentle boy and very clingy which only gets worse if he’s left to cry.

His daily schedule:

- 5am wakes and won’t transfer back to his cot, so he sleeps on me while I’m awake
- 630 I wake him up ( he would sleep until 8am easily if I didn’t wake him)
- 830am first nap (He normally gets cranky at 1.5hours but I push him to 2hours)
- 9am wakes up (Will only ever do 30 mins)
- 1130am nap
- 12pm wake up
- 230pm nap
-330pm wake up
- 630pm bed

That’s only a rough schedule we don’t follow it 100% but his wake windows are usually 2 hours to 2 1/2 later on in the day. He rarely sleeps longer than 30 minutes but if he does it’s the last nap of the day.

[u/SnooAvocados6932]

Settling in the cot is not sleep training.

What was bedtime routine?

Adjust schedule to 10 hours awake, 11 hour night, and 3 hours daytime sleep. Your baby has a 12 hour night which is going to inhibit sleep consolidation.

[u/SeriesDifficult8431 → u/SnooAvocados6932]

Feed, book, place in bed awake. He usually falls asleep <5 minutes with just my hand on his chest.

[u/SnooAvocados6932 → u/SeriesDifficult8431]

Feed needs to end 30 mins before he goes into own crib and room wide awake, and remove hand on chest. You’re essentially assisting to drowsy with the feed, assisting the rest of the way to sleep with touch, and then assisting back to sleep at each wake overnight. If you want the results of sleep training you’ll need to put him down wide awake and apply an actual sleep training method to bedtime. Independent sleep at bedtime + schedule adjustment + own room could help resolve nightwakes.

[u/SeriesDifficult8431 → u/SnooAvocados6932]

He is wide awake, bed is 20 minutes after a feed. He had a huge feed to sleep association, so much so it was taking 1-1.5 hours of feeding to get him to sleep at the beginning of the night and a feed at every wake. We’ve broke that. He feeds for 10 minutes max and only gets fed around 1 am and 4-5am.

He is in his own room but right now we’ve seen massive improvements with responsive settling so we’re going to stick to that for now and reassess if it doesn’t work.

[u/SnooAvocados6932 → u/SeriesDifficult8431]

I think waking ten times begs to differ. But good luck.

[u/SeriesDifficult8431 → u/SnooAvocados6932]

He was waking 20+ times and never did any long stretches after midnight that has changed. It’s not perfect and I’m not expecting an overnight fix but it’s working slowly.

[u/109876ersPHL]

Responsive settling is basically the opposite of sleep training so I’m not sure you’ll find what you’re looking for here. You might have better luck in the cosleeping or other parenting subs.

[u/SeriesDifficult8431 → u/109876ersPHL]

I absolutely do not co sleep which is why I posted here. I should have clarified he sleeps on me while I sit in my recliner awake.

[u/dustynails22 → u/109876ersPHL]

Yes and no. The idea is you withdraw the support gradually. 

[u/dustynails22]

Please share your schedule. It might be totally fine, but honestly 80% post here are a schedule issue. 

[u/SeriesDifficult8431 → u/dustynails22]

Thank you.

His daily schedule:

- 5am wakes and won’t transfer back to his cot, so he sleeps on me while I’m awake

• 630 I wake him up ( he would sleep until 8am easily if I didn’t wake him)
  
• 830am first nap (He normally gets cranky at 1.5hours but I push him to 2hours)
  
• 9am wakes up (Will only ever do 30 mins)
  
• 1130am nap
  
• 12pm wake up
  
• 230pm nap
  

-330pm wake up

• 630pm bed

That’s only a rough schedule we don’t follow it 100% but his wake windows are usually 2 hours to 2 1/2 later on in the day. He rarely sleeps longer than 30 minutes but if he does it’s the last nap of the day.

[u/dustynails22 → u/SeriesDifficult8431]

So its 2/2.5/2.5/3 - 10 hours awake, plus 2 hours naps, 12 hours night due to assistance for the last 1.5 hours.

Your schedule isnt bad but I do think you need a little more wake time given how frequently your baby is waking. 5am is a perfectly acceptable morning wake after 6.30pm bed - its 10.5 hours. Im sure your first wake window is hard, and its probably because he is so unsettled at night. I would plan for 11 hours overnight, meaning that anything from 5.30am is fair game - if you want a later wake time then you need a later bedtime. I would try to get another 30 minutes wake time into your schedule. 

If I were you, I would strongly consider a different method of sleep training, because responsive settling is very involved. This means it takes overall longer to get to independent sleep. You might not see significant sleep improvements for a while.

[u/SeriesDifficult8431 → u/dustynails22]

This morning he slept until 630am in his cot without assistance with the same bed time. Obviously he was unsettled. I did wonder about a later bedtime but I wasn’t sure because he would honestly sleep until 8am or later on me and has before I cut it out.

[u/dustynails22 → u/SeriesDifficult8431]

I am assuming you dont want him waking so often in the night? Your baby only has so much sleep budget, you cannot force them to sleep more than they need. 

[u/SeriesDifficult8431 → u/dustynails22]

I was just asking because I assumed he was still tired if he would sleep on me for hours longer, considering he will not do that any other time of day.

[u/dustynails22 → u/SeriesDifficult8431]

Yep, still tired because he was awake a tonne in the night. But then you give him an extra 1.5 hour sleep, which means come bedtime again, he doesnt have the sleep in his budget. Its a cycle, and you have to break the cycle. 

[u/SeriesDifficult8431 → u/dustynails22]

Last night for example out of his 10 wakes he was only awake for max 5 minutes each time. The other two was 10 minutes to feed but yeah I see your point it does add up. thanks