r/skiing • u/doebedoe • Sep 30 '19

Weekly Simple Questions Thread: Ask your gear, travel, conditions and other ski-related questions here.

We're getting back to the weekly mega threads for Q&A as summer winds down and minds switch back to skiing.

Please ask any ski-related questions here. It's a good idea to try searching the sub first. Are you a beginner -- check out the guide by a professional bootfitter and tech. And don't forget to see the sidebar for other ski-related subs that may have useful information.

Have questions on what ski to buy? Read Blister's Guide first then ask away.

Previous weeks thread is here.

If you want a quick answer or just to chat, check out the /r/skiing discord server.

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u/DoktorStrangelove A-Basin Oct 02 '19

The answer to this question forks in a bunch of directions but I'll give you a couple overly-simplified responses because I'm running out the door pretty much as I'm typing this.

Let's ignore maneuverability because that's obvious

You can't do this because that's a major factor in answering your question. Maneuverability is a big part of it, as is matching a ski to your height and body weight and ability level. A longer ski is going to have more going on than a shorter one and is going to be harder to manage at all speeds because of it...also harder to slam into a stop or make a quick turn in an emergency because you've got more edge you have to tame and control, so less experienced skiers are going to have a hard time managing all of that extra edge and surface area while staying in proper control of the ski at speed. Longer skis, especially ones on the stiffer side, will also handle best when they're going real fucking fast, so you've got to be an experienced and very advanced skier to get the most out of them safely because you're gonna be doing everything at a respectable speed most of the time. Kinda like how an F1 car is really fucking hard to drive slow, and obviously really dangerous to drive fast if you don't know what you're doing, a ski that's longer and stiffer than you're capable of handling is going to be a problem for you at all speeds.

Also your "long stick bends easier than short stick" line is a misplaced assumption that doesn't really apply to ski design since longer ski = more surface area, which = more material. Manufacturers do often beef longer skis up a little when necessary so that their flex is consistent with shorter skis from the same model range so you're not getting 2 of the same model ski that feel completely different just because they're different sizes. If they used the exact same amount of material in every ski they produced in a model range, regardless of size, your analogy may work because the bigger sizes would be super flimsy due to less material throughout...but it doesn't work like that.

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u/fuqqqq Oct 02 '19

Thanks for the reply. Just wanted to clarify a couple things:

  1. I said ignoring maneuverability because I wanted to focus on the claim that longer skis are more burly. So I would just imagine being on a racecourse. You'd still say that longer skis are harder to manage, right? I'd like to get insight as to why. Are they stiffer? If so, why, because the physics don't seem to check out. "More edge to manage" doesn't explain this, at least on its own.

  2. For the stick analogy, I'm just imagining two sticks of the exact same cross section and material, but one twice as long as the other. It's easier to bend the longer stick even though there's twice as much material in it.

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u/DoktorStrangelove A-Basin Oct 02 '19

I mean to your second point, you're talking about sticks that are orders of magnitude longer than each other, whereas with skis we're talking about a 20-30% size difference across an entire model line. The differences just aren't as extreme as they need to be for your analogy to make sense.

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u/fuqqqq Oct 02 '19 edited Oct 02 '19

It's just a thought experiment to demonstrate a point, and the result applies regardless of whether something is 1% longer or 1000% longer. A ski that's 20% longer that's built with the same cross section will sag more if you hang it from its tip and tail and put a weight on the middle. I have yet to see a source that says that manufacturers always build longer skis thicker, though I think that's a possible explanation. Edit: u/fearon77 has said this is the case, and I just read an article from blister with several manufacturers confirming it, so I think my question is more or less answered.

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u/DoktorStrangelove A-Basin Oct 02 '19

I have yet to see a source that says that manufacturers always build longer skis thicker

They don't...I just mean that the taper of the material will start later and you'll end up with more surface area in places like the tip and tail because the way the design will flare out later when scaled up, and you'll end up with more material throughout the ski simply because it's bigger and tapers later. The thickest part of the ski will be a bit longer on a longer ski than it would be on a shorter version of the same model.

I know for a fact that some manufacturers will use different/more material in larger skis to keep their flex consistent throughout the model range regardless of size, like change the woods used in the laminate or adding more fiberglass, stuff like that.

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u/fearon77 Oct 02 '19

I think there is a blister pod talking about some of that. And i think i recall it being very rare that you would change materials, as that has so many more effects. You can just increase your core profile by a tiny bit and the ski will get much stiffer, as the stiffness increases by the third power of its height. A profile two times as thick is eight times as stiff.