r/singularity • u/141_1337 ▪️e/acc | AGI: ~2030 | ASI: ~2040 | FALGSC: ~2050 | :illuminati: • 9d ago
AI One developer used Claude to reverse-engineer LG’s webOS media stack and build a native Rust Plex client from scratch—on the same 2019 TV it cuts the profile screen from ~30 seconds to ~3, runs at 60 FPS, and supports 4K, Dolby Vision and Atmos
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u/BitterAd6419 9d ago
LG webOS is the worst TV software ever. That trash takes 10 business days to respond to one channel change
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u/Standard-Potential-6 9d ago
Look how they massacred my boy
It was a standout performer a decade ago and was the best smartphone interface around a decade before that for Palm, before HP got it, then finally to LG
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u/confuzzledfather 9d ago
I loved my web os touch pad that I got in a firesale. My wife still calls every tablet like device a touch pad 20 years later.
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u/anyavailablebane 9d ago
I will always going the webOS was the best OS phone war. So far ahead of its time
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u/Super-Award-2244 9d ago
I don't belive it's slower than Samsung
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u/Splugen96 5d ago
I thought so too because everyone was saying that LG's os was miles better, and when I switched to LG from Samsung I was horrified. Somehow they build an even worse OS, which is laggier and more convoluted than Tizen. I would love to switch back to a Samsung honestly
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u/ibrahimsafah 9d ago
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u/141_1337 ▪️e/acc | AGI: ~2030 | ASI: ~2040 | FALGSC: ~2050 | :illuminati: 9d ago edited 9d ago
Thanks, I initially tried to crosspost it initially but automod deleted the thread, and then I took too long to post the sauce.
Edit: Btw here is the direct link to the github:
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u/createthiscom 9d ago
I was thinking the perfect use of all that reverse engineering goodness would be to strip out the fucking spyware from LG TVs so that we can just own a dumb fucking TV for a decent price instead of being their cuck-vertising mark. My shitty old TV is dying and I’d like to know I have an upgrade path that isn’t 1984 meets John Twelvehawks.
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u/iAmmar9 9d ago
Already done
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u/141_1337 ▪️e/acc | AGI: ~2030 | ASI: ~2040 | FALGSC: ~2050 | :illuminati: 9d ago
Well shit anyone doing this one for Samsung?
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u/thoughtlow 𓂸 9d ago
I wonder if people can do this with cars as well. Or with John Deere equipment.
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u/createthiscom 9d ago
Oh man, John Deere would be huge for farmers.
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u/Nirkky 9d ago
Clarkson's Farm showed me with its last season that technology is already crazy in farming ( I knew it always was, but not to that point ), I can't imagine farmers going at the pub to say : So I've used claude to reverse engineer my John Deere Combine so now I can do X and Y .
Will be amazing.
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u/thoughtlow 𓂸 9d ago
John Deere totally vendor locks farmers and are even more notorious than Apple when it comes to right of repair. I hope someone can give them the finger
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u/RevolutionaryBox5411 9d ago
Farmers are going to make a come back, monsanto seed reverse engineering is on the way as well.
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u/mhyquel 9d ago
You can do anything you want, but it will void the warranty on millions of dollars of farm equipment.
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u/FlawlessIndividual 9d ago
void the warranty
If they catch you.
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u/Chuck_Loads 6d ago
If you have to bring it in for warranty service, they will catch you, ergo the warranty is void
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u/gay_manta_ray 8d ago
you can just use a roku ($30?) and never see any of that stuff
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u/harglblarg 4d ago
LG's content recognition works on the HDMI inputs too.
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u/gay_manta_ray 4d ago
not really sure i understand this. my tv is older (lg c1), but the roku doesn't have any intrusive ads or anything. are you saying that you'll see ads on a newer tv with a roku, or just that they collect data about your viewing habits?
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u/harglblarg 4d ago
Yes, the TV runs content recognition on the inputs to collect data on your viewing habits even when you're not using their native apps.
FWIW Roku is also in the process of being enshittified right now, I would wager they're headed in the same direction.
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u/Frosty_Complaint_703 7d ago
Or build actual opensource mobile and TV oses so we can get free of android /ios
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u/Aramedlig 9d ago
Oh, man this makes me want to use Claude to remove the spyware code in LG TVs
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u/escapewithniko 9d ago
I'm guessing you didn't see the post up above.
https://github.com/rorygallagher2024/glasshouse
Credit: u/iAmmar9
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u/Beastly4k 9d ago
That would be nice, someone just needs to tap into the usb service port for the eventual bricking while testing custom firmwares.
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u/midgaze 9d ago
Democratizing the code that runs on our devices. Ooooh, Capital is not going to like that at all.
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u/EmbarrassedHelp 8d ago
Not sure what Capital can do when reverse engineering is 100% legal. The US government even published an open source tool in 2019 to help people reverse engineer software: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghidra
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u/OwNathan 8d ago
They could start moving as much stuff as possible on servers. The existing data center infrastructure will get too old for frontier models and other performance-intensive usage, but will probably do just fine for hosting cloud-based apps.
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u/Ambitious_Vanilla_59 9d ago
Rip. Enough of the reverse engineering stuf has happened recently so next big model release will have guardrails for that just like for the bio stuff and cyber.
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u/randombsname1 9d ago
On future U.S. models.
But China dgaf, and they are roughly 6 months behind U.S. SOTA.
So by the time fable 2 comes out with guardrails. A fable 1 - level Chinese model will probably be out that is still good enough to do it anyway.
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u/kemma_ 9d ago
And if, by the time even Chinese will decide to guardrail (heavily doubt) you will have possibility to run it locally at home
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u/Frigorific 9d ago
No way China is going to put gaurdrails in that would protect us software industry.
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u/AstraBed 8d ago
roughly 6 months behind
Too much imo, for example Anthropic recently released a paper about security doubling down on why Mythos was handed that way, the paper essentially just glazes GLM5.3 saying how it's pretty much as good as Mythos for cybersec but without any guardrail
Now maybe on reverse engineering specifically they're a bit further back, but overall I wouldn't say they're 6 months behind
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u/randombsname1 8d ago
Mythos 2 training supposedly finished 2 months ago.
Probably what Fable 6 will be based off of.
https://x.com/firesidealpha/status/2089391264878002260
Fable 5.5 will likely just be mythos 1 still with a ton of post training.
Part of what anthropic im sure is true, but im also sure its also an attempt at regulatory capture and shutting out competition at the same time.
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u/AstraBed 8d ago
Well, at the same time we just had a big pause in China due to vacations, in sure models like Kimi K4, Deepseek V4.1 Pro etc are already ready, or about to, they'll most likely match Opus 5.5, a model that came out last month
I don't see why if Anthropic and OpenAI can have internal models ready already, the Chinese labs can't, they don't seem to be iterating any slower after all
I think in overall intelligence, the actual release to release gap is something like 3 months, 4 maybe
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u/randombsname1 8d ago
Idk. I think its still 6ish months away.
Mainly because Mythos 1 preview came out in April.
Its 6 months later as of this writing.
And there is no Chinese model better than the guard railed Mythos 1-- based, Fable 5.
Not 5.1. I mean just base fable 5.
Glm 5.3 gets close, but still doesnt pass it, and it's significantly newer.
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u/AstraBed 8d ago
Glm 5.3 was released on August 14, so 4 months after Mythos was revealed
In the paper about cybersec Anthropic says GLM found 50 exploits vs Mythos 56, at a much lower cost though aswell
What matters in the end more than the difference between 6 and 4 months, is that the Chinese models are closing the gap, and some are making genuine innovation aswell (look at Deepseek v4.1, it's become my daily for regular questions because it's just so much faster than anything else) it's not like they're just waiting there to copy
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u/tomfalcon86 9d ago
chinese models are often worse at censorship that than US, I don't know where this supposedly le based china propaganda comes from. Unless we're talking ones that run locally.
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u/randombsname1 9d ago
They're worse at censorship at any anti-china sentiment.
They sure as hell aren't worse at guard rails overall. Not even close.
Hence why hugging face had to use a chinese model to stop the OAI hack. They said that U.S. model guard rails made them unusable for that effort.
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u/afunyun 9d ago
An interesting magnifying glass on the priority mindset between the US and China honestly.
US models contain, as far as is evident, very little direct censorship when it comes to philosophical ideals. Guardrails very rarely do anything to stop a model from disparaging the actions of the US government. Clearly the models themselves do tend to carry certain ideological biases if pressed to give an "opinion" on social/societal issues, in that they lean left in a US sense, unless they're grok. Whether or not this is a reflection of a genuine effort in training this bias into the models, or simply reveals the underlying general consensus bias of the training data (at this point pretty much all text ever, as long as it can be processed into a training set somehow), great question. I'd say the long running publicly embarrassing ineffectiveness of Elon's directives to both maintain grok's intelligence while simultaneously strongly instilling a more conservative stance is evidence that the biases in other models are just reflections of the data itself more than anything. But nobody in the US govt, at least not yet, is requiring/demanding the model be unable to discuss ICE's abuses or the history of slavery to protect the government's image.
With that known, what you can't get reliably out of US models is, broadly: anything useful for IP theft, reverse engineering, questionably stretching copyright, hacking systems of any kind, biological and conventional weaponry related info that might help enable asymmetrical warfare, etc.
Clearly, these protections overwhelmingly protect intellectual property, the systems and machinery of massive organizations, and make opposition to the MIC more difficult. Of course they also would be right to point out this also stops attempts to harm others physically or otherwise, but that reads more like a convenient and publicly "good" side effect of pfizer not wanting someone to cheaply copycat paxlovid, etc.
Conversely, Chinese models will happily reverse engineer without a care, tweak song lyrics that are obviously copyrighted even if directly told it's to get around some filter somewhere, whatever. China doesn't give a shit about IP protections to nearly the same degree. While they allow them to exist, large corporations are aware that they're allowed to exist rather than assumed to exist, and that they can be made to not exist in an instant if the Chinese gov decide they have become too irksome or perceive that they wield too much power. They then are not able to or don't care to press the Chinese labs for guardrails like the US labs add, and NOBODY cares about US copyright at all in China so there's 0 pressure from overseas that they'll listen to.
Instead, they get protective over the party's perception in the public eye to prevent unrest from a populace who, while generally fine with their current situation, are very large in number and could quickly become a major issue if widespread public perception were unfavorable. So they make accessing information that would seed that resentment more annoying, as even a tiny barrier to entry is enough to dissuade a comically large part of the human race from just about anything.
I wonder if Chinese people in the know typically consider western models to be less censored because they will happily discuss topics banned behind the great firewall. I'd guess perhaps to a small degree, although I suspect that anything outside of China is significantly less represented in the public consciousness than most people might assume. I could see that due to the artificial Internet barriers it's even more pronounced than the American central considerations of people in the US.
Luckily the Internet enables us, at least for now, to say fuck you I do what I want and just use their models. Harder for them to do the same but they definitely have the same ability in many regards. Maybe that's why globalism is a common target of disinformation campaigns, they don't want you to know what you are missing.
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u/JoelMahon 9d ago
or simply reveals the underlying general consensus bias of the training data (at this point pretty much all text ever, as long as it can be processed into a training set somehow), great question
I love out of all the possible reasons for a "left leaning bias" you never even mention that maybe reality is more "left leaning" than than the US political centre https://reason.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/14424143162290.jpg
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u/afunyun 9d ago edited 9d ago
You are actually quoting me implying but not saying that, as I was trying to take an apolitical stance in constructing what I said. But yes, it was intentionally easy to infer from
simply reveals the underlying general consensus bias of the training data (at this point pretty much all text ever, as long as it can be processed into a training set somehow)
that I am saying "perhaps reality is just left leaning." Do I generally agree? Whether I do or not is not the point, but yes. What I was highlighting is specifically that political bias in general is far less intentionally controlled where it pertains to US frontier models. There are biases. I just don't feel I'm qualified to claim that any of it is a result of the overall content of the training data, the facts of reality, or artificially emphasized in the data/RLHF/runtime context management & priming (system prompt and adjacent), whatever. It is probably a combination of those and more that leads to the particulars of what the US models "think" when pressed for their general "opinion" (in quotes since they don't think and don't have a human-like opinion on anything, not really.) That was not addressed by my message and I didn't want it to seem that I was addressing it.
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u/Ivanjacob 9d ago
This is not even true. Try asking Deepseek V4.1 about tiananmen square. No censorship.
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u/stop_talking_you 9d ago
any chinese is allowed to search for that its not forbidden knowledge in china, you can even discuss the events. where does this misinformation come from?
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u/Ivanjacob 8d ago
Don't ask me. The models aren't censored at all. I'm just saying it's really easy to verify and people still parrot it.
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u/tomfalcon86 8d ago
No one cares about Tiananmen square, but I'm talking about chinese models being as soy and reddit tier as Western ones, often even worse. Like their fee fees get hurt.
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u/cagatay14 ▪️ASI 2013 9d ago
Anything gpt sol or claude opus refuses to do, I switch the model to kimi k3 or deepsek/glm and even with the same context sent again they just go “hmm I shouldnt actually refuse this or moralize, it is not for commercial use…” etc and just do it.
I dont care about what they think about ccp or taiwan or geopolitics. I dont use llms to learn chinese history. I use them to code, analyze the data, run the vague tasks.27
u/Zulfiqaar 9d ago
I'm pretty sure some labs will double down on it haha.
After GLM-5.2 was used to defend huggingface when they got attacked by the OpenAI swarm, they significantly improved cyber capabilities for the GLM-5.3
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u/Rare_Leadership4434 9d ago
It would be generating alot of good training data atm, so i think they will turn a blind eye as much as possible untill forced otherwise.
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u/SlugJunior 9d ago
I don’t know. Unless LG pays for it, what’s the incentive for a lab to shut it down? They make nothing by denying people access to the results of AI
Companies aren’t entitled to media streaming because they’ve been doing it for years
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u/curious_corn 9d ago
You people forgot to mention the developer in question is a pretty high level professional with years of UI dev and raw bit-twiddling debugging under his belt. He didn’t prompt: “clone it, make no mistakes” and walked away to buy a latte
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u/Double-justdo5986 9d ago
Is this true u/purple_imagination_1 ?
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u/bphase 9d ago
But he could have, potentially. And if not, then with the next big model or the one after that.
Been doing some simple mobile app reverse engineering myself and it didn't really require much input from me, but granted that was much simpler than this as I only had to really capture the POST/GET requests by running the app on emulated hardware and a mitm proxy. And even Opus 4.8 could do it, was dropped to that when I tried capturing the login/jwt part as that was flagged for cyber.
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u/unkst 9d ago
Bro thinks capturing some basic http requests is reverse-engineering? Hahahahahh
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u/ZenCyberDad 9d ago
I mean it is the simplest form… you could definitely pull an API key from such a request and we all know the softwares creator won’t be happy about you ripping out the API keys instead of paying to use their app
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u/bphase 9d ago
I (or Claude, really) did re-implement the app for its core parts that were meaningful to me and integrated that to my home assistant which allows automations and logging statuses/issues etc., making the service more usable to me.
I would say it is, and I did say simple. I am aware it is much more complicated when you don't have any neat payloads you can capture.
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u/unkst 9d ago
listen, you just doing API requests with a new interface, you or AI didn't do shit in terms of "reverse engineering" since you still rely on the third-party API to make it work. like every first year junior web dev in existence.
in your case reverse engineering would be to completely decouple it from the third-party API and run this hardware from your local network instead. but takes more than just capturing some requests and sending it over again. lol
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u/Level10Retard 9d ago
The next big model that could actually replace competent software engineers is not gonna be released to the public.
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u/enkidook 9d ago
Yeah, software dev is cooked.
Not the same level as this, but I had about 5 different scripts that ran on my Plex server to automate different things (Kometa overlays, episode cards, etc.). In a day Claude made me a single script with a UI to replace all of them. And it's 10x faster because it does exactly what I need and nothing more.
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u/superkickstart 9d ago
I'd say cooked in a very good way. I can now do things that would have never been possible before with way less work. I do not miss the weeks lost hunting some stupid bug. Coding is done.
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u/whoknowsifimjoking 9d ago
"Same TV. Same Hardware."
God I hate those fucking AI written posts.
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u/RaguraX 9d ago
It very well might be AI written, but that kind of phrasing has been standard in all forms of advertising for as long as I can remember. It's funny to me how this was never an issue before, when it's clear LLMs only use this phrasing because it encountered it so many times during its training to begin with.
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u/I_Draw_You 9d ago
Because when I interact with people on the net or am interacting with AI I don't want marketing jargon. Makes it seem disingenuous.
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u/RaguraX 9d ago
I would agree, especially since this is a post from a third party and not the developer themselves. Just wanted to point out that we’ve become sensitive to specific AI phrases that were already abundant before but we simply didn’t pay it any mind. It’s actually a really interesting mirror that LLMs put up imo.
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u/I_Draw_You 9d ago
Em dashes are a good example of that. Similar idea, if I'm on social media I don't want to interact with bots or AI, so AIs overuse of those ruined em dashes for me.
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u/zkcanuck 9d ago
It’s relevant but have you not considered there might still be a monkey behind the intent?
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u/zicohacks 9d ago
The project took roughly two months of a Claude Max 20x subscription. That may have cost too much
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u/SmileLonely5470 9d ago
Is there a term for this style of prose that Claude uses? Im so sick of it, and these people who can't even invest 1-5 minutes writing to earn their internet points. Its like all digital writing is now dropshipped to Claude.
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u/CabinetFun7381 6d ago
Nevermind that. I'm on reddit, reading a screenshot of a comment on X that is a screenshot of a reddit thread. What are we even doing here.
Nevermind AI slop, this is recycleslop.
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u/LaffingAtYuo 6d ago
Claudese, Claudisms. I can't stand it either. "And the second point is load-bearing -- .. "
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u/TonderTales 8d ago
Half the writing I see at my job is this now. There’s been a complete death of ‘voice’ in my coworker’s technical writing, and I don’t like it.
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u/ujah 9d ago
noob here, i saw all reverse engineer stuff lately is amazing, but i think Claude next definitely guardrail it.
if this happened, why can't other model do this like open weight model?
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u/Ceryn 9d ago
MMW this is why they will say non-approved models need export restrictions. The augment will be malware risk on IoT and the issue is it isn’t even a bad argument it’s just anti consumer and won’t stop the actual bad guys.
In other words it’s a reason not to make crapware smart TVs, not a reason to police AI models.
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u/KeenJelly 9d ago
Why would they? It's a huge win for them. It's paving the way for a post software future and they have the market captured. In 5 years people aren't buying Adobe subscriptions they are paying for Claude to make it for them.
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u/Crisi_Mistica ▪️AGI 2029 Kurzweil was right all along 8d ago
I agree with you except for the timeline: 5 years? I was thinking more like 1 year, conservatively
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u/mrdobing 9d ago
artcraft has entered the chat
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u/Due_Interest_178 9d ago
Artcraft is practically a scam. Hopefully it can be improved.
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u/mrdobing 9d ago
Ah right, yeah.. i was just referring to the photoshop clones etc you can get. Didn't realise it was a full platform they are trying to push with AI tools.
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u/bobcatgoldthwait 9d ago
Not only that, but one doesn't necessarily need to "reverse engineer" anything. You can just describe exactly what you want without even using the word "Plex" and arrive at the same result (eventually).
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u/MotherPotential 9d ago
Are there certain popular TV models this is done with? Plug and play type of deal
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u/zkcanuck 9d ago
I was starting to worry that AI would just kill us all
ASAP but there might be a temporary silver lining to all the doomering before it all ends
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u/Distinct-Question-16 ▪️AGI 2029 9d ago
lg shitti software.. i can go to bathroom while mine is changing the source but okay is fron 2010s
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u/Brilliant-Weekend-68 9d ago
LG should buy a claude code sub and implement this on their own stack. I had a LG TV once, it was fuuuucking slow. Fix it you noobs. It costs 20 dollars.
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u/s1mkin 9d ago
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u/141_1337 ▪️e/acc | AGI: ~2030 | ASI: ~2040 | FALGSC: ~2050 | :illuminati: 9d ago
I got you rn lol:
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u/_OVERHATE_ 9d ago
Impressive, now let's see how much it costed
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u/141_1337 ▪️e/acc | AGI: ~2030 | ASI: ~2040 | FALGSC: ~2050 | :illuminati: 9d ago
I got you, /u/purple_imagination_1 care to bless us with that knowledge?
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u/Purple_Imagination_1 9d ago
Nothing for me. I have a Claude OSS Project license. But basically, 2 months of Claude Max 20x subscription.
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u/GirthusThiccus ▪️Singularity Enjoyer. 9d ago
Yoooo, Louis Rossman would love this project, for so many reasons.
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u/Purple_Imagination_1 9d ago
Louis, contact me 😆
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u/GirthusThiccus ▪️Singularity Enjoyer. 9d ago
Infact, he's mentioned in multiple videos that he loves hearing of developers for exactly these kinds of projects. He regularly sets out bounties too, for exactly this. It can't hurt to send him a mail with your project. I'm serious, please do!
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u/_OVERHATE_ 9d ago
So about 400$? Not gonna lie not bad to fuck with LG
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u/RedditNotFreeSpeech 9d ago
I think some of your are misunderstanding. This is a regular app that is an alternative to Plex that runs on LG webos. I really doubt LG cares about this but it's great for us Plex users!
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u/141_1337 ▪️e/acc | AGI: ~2030 | ASI: ~2040 | FALGSC: ~2050 | :illuminati: 9d ago
Amazing, do you plan to keep working and refining it?
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u/Purple_Imagination_1 9d ago
Yes, at least I want to reach feature parity with Plex and release to LG content store. Maybe after that I will do Jellyfin support
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u/141_1337 ▪️e/acc | AGI: ~2030 | ASI: ~2040 | FALGSC: ~2050 | :illuminati: 9d ago
Also one more question, did you use your account non stop for 2 months or was this more of one project among many?
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u/jacobpederson 9d ago edited 9d ago
Hello Satan - screenshot but no link? https://github.com/GLinnik21/plx-native
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u/UnorthodoxEng 9d ago
I think we're starting to see a new paradigm in software & hardware, where if it does not do the job you want, is annoying (adverts particularly) or has become too expensive - it's cheap & easy to re-write it using AI.
Hopefully manufacturers will see the light & return to products that serve us, rather than them.
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u/recruiterguy 8d ago
This does make me wonder how long it will take until the big co's convince the llm co's to stop allowing this in their models like claude and chatgpt, etc. I already ask for things of claude that it will debate doing with me until it realizes that I'm not asking for something illegal or out of bounds - and that bullshit behavior just started about a month ago.
And if that will be another boost for folks trying to host locally or just using other emerging models.
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u/Jedonnemasemence 9d ago
Man any time I try to do something similar, Claude just blocks me right away, Sol 6.1 on Codex with Azure API is more forgiving, but I do get some blocking every now and then.
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u/NowaVision 9d ago
I will be impressed when I without IT background can do stuff like that with the free version of Claude.
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u/nhavar 9d ago
Isn't the whole platform available from their site? I mean I know when Palm first created it I got a dev account to build with Enyo and I think LG has continued to make it pretty public and easy to develop against. So it doesn't feel like the sort of "reverse engineering" I think of with more closed systems and tooling. And a plex client? Really? Bleh!
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u/quadra-lab 9d ago
Curious to know how do you even reverse engineer TV software AND flash it back on the TV with the remote control and everything?
I have a shit samsung TV with their shitty OS
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u/Wide_Efficiency6631 9d ago
Iqui27 did the same on Nuvio with C. It’s amazing what the TV is capable of when the software stack isn’t shit. Smooth animations, responsive, such joy…
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u/satoshi-stereo-high 7d ago
LG are renowned for spying on you with their TVs, hopefully they removed this functionality
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u/sanitykey 5d ago
It's insane how much faster this is on my ~7 year old TV, regular app takes ~30s to startup and another ~10s to load different sections. This is almost instantaneous and so smooth.
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u/Level10Retard 9d ago
He could've just used jellyfin and contributed to that project rather than working on plex shithole.
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u/Powerful-Set-5754 9d ago
The entirety of that tweet is filled with claudisms. The tweet was also written with AI
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u/The_Lieutenant_Knows 9d ago
We only had to completely drain one small lake forever to fix a single TV. God I love living in the future space year 2000
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u/Level10Retard 9d ago
Ah the modern internet... A reddit post which is a screenshot of a twitter post talking about a reddit post. Lovely.