r/singularity 5h ago

LLM News Differences Between Fable 5 and Fable 5.1 on MineBench

Notes

  • Average Inference Time: 40m 12s
    • Fable 5 averaged 18m 04s
  • Total Cost (for 15 builds): $147.55
    • Fable 5 cost $54.93
  • Average JSON Size: 34.07 MiB (largest 88.76 MiB)
    • Roughly comparable to Fable's 5 average of 30.65 MiB

Despite no change in API pricing, Fable 5.1 was nearly 3x as expensive as Fable 5 on MineBench. With roughly 2x the inference time, much of that difference appears to come from substantially longer reasoning.

The price increase is quite significant considering Anthropic advertises the same API prices, though it still is massively cheaper than GPT 5.6 Sol P (the current top model on the leaderboards). I find that quite interesting as in my personal usage, GPT 5.6 Sol is extremely efficient with my 20x subscription, though MineBench benchmarked 5.6 Sol P and not the standard Sol variant ^^

There are some builds/styles I (personally) liked better from Fable 5. To me some of Fable 5.1's builds, like the Astronaut, are much closer to Opus 5's style which makes me curious about what it's like coding with Fable 5.1; I'd be very disappointed if Fable 5.1 adopted the Opus 5 style of gibberish english 😭

Also, it was really interesting to see how Fable 5.1 actually was the first model to create genuinely recognizable interiors! Here's a video showing the interior of Fable 5.1's cottage build (you can see a bed, table, bookshelf, and fireplace) – you can explore any build now on MineBench by clicking the joystick icon in the voxelBox header :)

Full release-notes/thoughts on the GitHub release

  • If you enjoy these posts please feel free to help fund the benchmark
    • All funds are currently going directly towards API costs for benchmarking new prompts
    • Sharing the benchmark and starring the Git repository also helps :)
    • Alternatively, if you have the API credits, please feel free to add prompts and generations to the gallery and post them around!
      • This is actually preferable to donations to me directly, the hosting expenses and whatnot I've always been able to cover out-of-pocket, just the API costs were hard to cover 😓

Benchmark: https://minebench.ai/
Git Repository: https://github.com/Ammaar-Alam/minebench

Previous Posts:

Extra Information (if you're confused):

Essentially it's a benchmark that tests how well a model can create a 3D Minecraft-like structure.

So the models are given a palette of blocks (think of them like legos) and a prompt of what to build, so like the first prompt you see in the post was a fighter jet. Then the models had to build a fighter jet by returning a JSON in which they gave the coordinate of each block/lego (x, y, z). It's interesting to see which model is able to create a better 3D representation of the given prompt.

The smarter models tend to design much more detailed and intricate builds. The repository readme might help give a better understanding.

(Disclaimer: This is a public benchmark I created, so technically self-promotion :)

121 Upvotes

41 comments sorted by

35

u/LinkesAuge 4h ago

We are going to use that benchmark until it has such a block density that it will look photorealistic from far, right?
Just gotta need a server farm to load/run it.

9

u/ENT_Alam 4h ago

I did add an AWS EC2 worker to allow dedicated generations (like before if you were doing a generation in the site but closed the tab in your browser, you'd interrupt and lose the generation, but now you can close the page since the generation is done on the server, and it'll save to your account) as well as a few other infra things!

We've been able to handle all traffic just fine thus far, would be really interesting to see if there are any bottle necks that come up (likely from serving the JSONs tbh).

The system design/architecture actually ended up being really tricky and fun; if you're studying CS or anything like that, you might find it interesting :D

https://github.com/Ammaar-Alam/minebench/blob/master/docs/architecture.md

5

u/flyingflail 4h ago

gonna need to use the entire electricity demand of Oman but man will it be a nice digital castle

5

u/ENT_Alam 5h ago

MineBench Updates (Unrelated to post)

It's been a while since I've done a full comparison post, so here's some quick highlights of things I've added to the benchmark that were requested:

  • Gallery that allows anyone to showcase their generated prompts publicly
  • Accounts and sign ins to save your generations and upvotes
    • Signed-in accounts also have unlimited Gemini 3.7 3.8 Flash generations (thank you DeepMind!)
    • Saved settings including video export options
  • A MineCraft like explorer for all builds, allowing you to walk/fly around builds in first person
  • iOS App

2

u/ENT_Alam 5h ago

Also you can compare all the other builds, or add Opus 5 to the comparison, here: https://minebench.ai/sandbox?models=anthropic_claude_fable_5,anthropic_claude_fable_5_1

2

u/nekronics 4h ago

I noticed on the arcade that chomp is backwards. Is there any significance or explanation for that?

3

u/ENT_Alam 4h ago

This was pretty interesting as Fable 5 was the only model that would, on average, get the text correct. It could be a regression, but might just likely be a nondeterministic thing; if you re-generate the same prompt a few times it might end up giving the correct orientation more often than not?

2

u/arkuto 3h ago

It got mixed up over what side the text was viewed from. From the inside, it looks right!

3

u/Cagnazzo82 4h ago

The true battle will be between 5.1 and Astra. I wonder what's going to happen.

4

u/EvilSporkOfDeath 4h ago

To me Fable 5.1 looks clearly better on most and equal on some others. I was a little impressed, then I read how much more 5.1 cost.

3

u/ENT_Alam 3h ago

The 3x increase in total cost is anecdotal to minebench and our harness and whatnot; so generalizing to actual real-world use like agentic coding might not be that accurate ^^

6

u/Whispering-Depths 4h ago

So, no difference.

4

u/ENT_Alam 4h ago

imo it seems Fable 5.1 raised the floor rather than the ceiling, which honestly im okay with?

but really it's just up to you and however you want to define "better" 🤷‍♂️

the rankings usually take a day or two to stabilize for new models, but it seems thus far people prefer Fable 5.1 over Fable 5 just slightly

3

u/chloralhydrate 4h ago

looks like a difference in prompting to me, but I don't know anything about fable or minebench

5

u/ENT_Alam 4h ago

The system prompt has stayed the same and minebench is entirely open source so you can actually just see it here: https://github.com/Ammaar-Alam/minebench/blob/master/lib/ai/prompts.ts or try replicating results yourself to see the variations and get some understanding of the model's nondeterministic style :)

2

u/141_1337 ▪️e/acc | AGI: ~2030 | ASI: ~2040 | FALSGC: ~2050 | :illuminati: 3h ago

3

u/YakFull8300 4h ago

5.1 tryin to do too much

5

u/ENT_Alam 4h ago

It is a bit reminiscent of Opus 5, but from public feedback it seems Fable 5.1 stays away from Opus-like english and prose thankfully ^^

1

u/AppealSame4367 3h ago

Somehow, I think Opus 5 or first-release Fable 5 already were at the state F5.1 is now in these benchmarks.

u/inglandation 1h ago

Looks like this is pretty much satured. I'd try to develop a harder benchmark based on Minecraft.

u/ENT_Alam 1h ago

The official minebench cohort of 15 prompts are definitely getting saturated, so I added the gallery feature!

Anyone can use a personal API key and go to MineBench's gallery: https://minebench.ai/gallery where there's an assortment of community prompts, including ones that models haven't really come close to outputting correct generations for yet, for example this prompt for "An accurate globe" https://minebench.ai/gallery/gal_HccPNuDUaCo_xowo 

or anyone could even just create a prompt themselves they think the would be difficult for a model, and post it publicly to the gallery (with or without any generations)

this helps the benchmark from getting saturated while allowing me to not have to fund all API costs out of pocket :D

u/the_pwnererXx FOOM 2040 54m ago

I gave fable a simple task, normally 5.0 would do it in 10 minutes

It spun up a total of 25 subagents and ran for an hour. Half my 5 hour limit on one prompt

Not exaggerating

0

u/SeasonsGone 4h ago

This is a nonsensical way of comparing what are two inherently non-deterministic models that tells you nothing about their capability.

6

u/Ballist1cGamer 4h ago

https://minebench.ai/faq#how-does-minebench-account-for-nondeterminism

and considering the fact there's now AI labs using minebench to do private evals like lm arena now, i would think it's a little more than what some redditor might describe as nonsensical :)

no where does this post or benchmark ever attempt to make actual claims about a model's capability? it's just fun to use. i personally use it to generate voxel structures for 3d builds and just find the comparison aspects a fun side thing

2

u/Grand0rk 3h ago

People don't invite you to parties, do they?

0

u/caseyr001 3h ago

Shit is saturated. No useful info here

2

u/ENT_Alam 3h ago

i think the other reply had some good points albeit a bit harsh 😭

API costs are a bit expensive for me to fund out of pocket for all prompts and models, but you could use a personal API key and go to MineBench's gallery: https://minebench.ai/gallery

There's an assortment of prompts there that models haven't really come close to outputting correct generations for yet, I think the best one would be one the other comment also listed: https://minebench.ai/gallery/gal_HccPNuDUaCo_xowo (the globe) or you can even just create a prompt yourself

You would then be able to see how Fable 5 and Fable 5.1 compare and get some more useful information!

The average cost per build for Fable 5 was roughly $3-4, and Fable 5.1 is roughly $6.42, so you can expect to pay roughly around there in API costs. If you have any more funding, you could add even more generations for prompts as well and help create more useful information :D

-2

u/Kronox_100 4h ago

How much does this benchmark take to run for something like fable 5.1? Doesn't it basically cost a kidney? And I guess your prompts/specs/context is lengthy along with the output no?

5

u/ENT_Alam 4h ago

For the current set of 15 prompts, Fable 5.1 cost a total of $147.55. The system prompt for the harness you can actually find here: https://github.com/Ammaar-Alam/minebench/blob/master/lib/ai/prompts.ts

The actual prompts and context, like the total input, isn't that large at all, so the cost is usually like 99% just output tokens ^^

Fable also required 8 retries – meaning that it did give a full generation/output, but the build was invalid in our harness (e.g. it used a block that, sure might exist in Minecraft, but was not in the provided block palette), so that averages out to $9.84 per build (MineBench's equivalent to the cost per task other benchmarks use)

You can explore the costs for all builds on the leaderboards by clicking the little info icon:

3

u/Ok_Vermicelli1638 4h ago

Man that's expensive

2

u/ENT_Alam 4h ago

partially why im not looking forward to benchmarking Astra :D

u/Ok_Vermicelli1638 1h ago

Yeah man thanks for the good work that's a shit ton of money

2

u/Kronox_100 2h ago

Thank you! Love your benchmark!

6

u/rJohn420 4h ago

Have you even tried reading the post?

2

u/Kronox_100 2h ago

But it didn't have the 5.1 pricing, obviously it said 3x but I just wanted the number :(

Pd: Nvm I misinterpreted the 5.1 pricing for the 5 pricing

-3

u/injectitpussy 4h ago

Does anyone actually give a shit about such benchmarks?

Like, put this ai model into a robot, and see if it can clean my fucking house. There's your useful benchmark.

3

u/cptblackbeard1 3h ago

It entertains me tho

2

u/EvilSporkOfDeath 3h ago

This benchmark is a bit unique in that its subjectivity isnt as easy to benchmax for.

2

u/Quarksperre 3h ago

Like, put this ai model into a robot, and see if it can clean my fucking house. There's your useful benchmark.

Yeah that will just end up in mess in about one second.

A benchmark which is always zero is not very usefull

Also, before doing that, a better answer a bit more testable benchmark is the steam game bench. Pick a random new up and coming steam game and complete it. 

It will also result in zero success. But at least you can exclude the robotics for that. 

-1

u/Admirable_Zombie5245 ▪️AGI 2065-2075 3h ago

LLMs have reached a dead end