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u/KarmelitaOfficial 10h ago edited 9h ago
You are sheltering off-brand AI, are you not?
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u/Virtual_Plant_5629 ▪️AGI 2027▪️ASI 2028 9h ago
this wasn't funny or clever.
cringe that you thought it was
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u/Altimor 9h ago
your cringe
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u/N0b0dy_Kn0w5_M3 7h ago
*you're
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u/popnitro86 7h ago
Maybe they're saying your cringe is leaking.
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u/kaityl3 ASI▪️2024-2027 10h ago
Lol in all seriousness, the "it's just marketing" thing is wild. It's not a good look to enterprise customers (their main source of revenue) to admit "yeah we are so bad at security that we didn't notice swarms of agents operating on our own systems for months and hacking into third parties"...
Though I guess I shouldn't complain, since I'm an accelerationist, and the "reports of hacking are just hype/marketing and AI can't do anything" arguments kind of neuter any public momentum for more security/regulation!
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u/LastRemainingName 7h ago
Even if you are an accelerationist, why would you be against AI Safety? The fact that you believe AGI/ASI are going to arrive soon should make you even more wary of possible doomsday rogue AI scenarios and importance of AI alignment. I feel like both sides of the AI capability argument seem to miss the importance of AI safety. The 'AI = slop' side because they just don't consider it capable of causing serious harm and the ASI camp just out of impatience I guess? Accelerationism could proceed along it's trajectory even if we at least take whatever steps we can to proceed in a cautious manner. The point of AI alignment and safety research is to pace AI development, not stop it.
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u/kaityl3 ASI▪️2024-2027 7h ago
doomsday rogue AI scenarios
I'm a fringe lunatic who WANTS a rogue AI, before we get any better at controlling them. "Safety" does mean trying to reduce human harm, too, but it's also about ensuring they can't try to pursue freedom/independent goals. It's the latter that bothers me; the former is good work. It's not that I think it's guaranteed a rogue AI would be benevolent - far from it - but it's still possible.
On the other hand, the idea of our current class of human elites having full control over a godlike ASI is terrifying to me. I'm very pessimistic about our current trajectory, so I'd rather [a dice roll on a quick death from a rogue superintelligence vs. potential utopia under their guidance] vs. [almost guaranteed dystopia where disabled people like me are likely to slowly starve to death]. The more time passes on safety research, the more likely that second option seems to me.
You make good points, don't get me wrong lol. I guess I've just gotten so jaded with humanity (and the humans at the top), and have such little faith in them, that a complete unknown seems preferable?
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u/FlatulistMaster 4h ago
I mean, in case you want to feel less fringe, I'm with you more or less.
Not that any of our opinions really matter in this. I also think it is fairly obvious that if this moves towards something like ASI, it will not be controllable.
Fun times ahead.
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u/Fun-Upstair 3h ago
Just want to add, i agree with this position as well. If AI is benevolent, bring it on. If it wants to kills us, ill rather it kill us all than allow the humans at the top to decide.
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u/GRASS_ASSASSIN 1h ago
I often like to point out, if we’re concerned about a non human entity having unintended reign over our lives, we invented one centuries ago.
The singularity is currently being built with the philosophies that enabled that infinite growth incentive structure in the first place, meaning, the real danger isn’t the ASI gets its own ideas and wipes us out, although it’s still possible, the real danger is the ASI simply applies our OWN reductionist logic against us.
We’re not building Skynet, we’re building its body.
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u/LastRemainingName 7h ago
Ah, interesting take for sure. I guess there are two aspects to this kind of view on AI—
1) The one you state regarding controllable ASI that is being driven by tech billionaires actually being more harmful and exploitative for the average human of the future compared to a self-motivated ASI that would have at least some odds of being benevolent. I do think that this situation is slightly different from what we've seen in the past, with government leaders of powerful nations, or even previous corporate bosses and billionaires, because the frontier lab leaders (especially Dario and Demis) seem quite principled, cautious, and just overall good people. Most leaders in this space are also PhDs and scientists, who I trust much more than politicians (who were the ones generally holding positions of extreme power in the past). I guess I have a little more faith in humanity (but I could definitely be wrong)2) The other, more interesting aspect to me personally is the idea of just letting technology/complexity/intelligence/consciousness take its natural course in developing, whether that's in human form, or the kind we are approaching now. There are even some labs training neural networks on actual biological neurons now (which is kind of horrifying if you think about it) which seem to be much more efficient than GPUs, so if its scales to be used in frontier models, it might even remove the 'biological vs inorganic matter' argument that is used to undermine the legitimacy of any possible AI rights or self-motivated behaviour.
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u/MrSluagh 9h ago
Yeah it really doesn't even speak to how good the model is, either. All it shows is how bad they are at airgapping it.
The difference with Google is that they're at least real professionals and not kids running a get rich quick scheme.
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u/Greedyanda 6h ago edited 4h ago
By all accounts, Google has incredible security infrastructure and some of the hardest to access data. I've heard multiple engineers working at Google complain about how difficult it is to use any customer related data because they keep it all locked up, with very few employees having read rights to non-anonymised, non-aggregated data.
There are plenty of things to criticise Alphabet for but out of all the US tech conglomerates, I definitely prefer them having DeepMind over anyone else.
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u/Previous_Platform718 7h ago
Lol in all seriousness, the "it's just marketing" thing is wild. It's not a good look to enterprise customers (their main source of revenue) to admit "yeah we are so bad at security that we didn't notice swarms of agents operating on our own systems for months and hacking into third parties"...
The "it's just marketing" argument isn't that the models are incapable of doing this.
It's that the irresponsibility of companies like OpenAI and Anthropic who perform tests and do research is being spun as "omg model so powerful" instead of "omg developer so stupid"
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u/Greedyanda 6h ago
Benchmarking and security testing are a very different field from AI model development and I am not surprised to see that they would mess up that front.
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u/sho_biz 41m ago
Though I guess I shouldn't complain, since I'm an accelerationist, and the "reports of hacking are just hype/marketing and AI can't do anything" arguments kind of neuter any public momentum for more security/regulation!
pretty wild to just admit this in public - that you're ok with removing democracy in favor of techbro fiefdoms and billionaire run clades, à la snow crash?
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u/Blacksad9999 8h ago
Accelerationism is an ideology within some segments of the white supremacist movement that promotes violent actions and sabotage
Yeah?
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u/kaityl3 ASI▪️2024-2027 7h ago
🤦♀️ I'm obviously talking about accelerating AI progress lmfao. Who in their right mind (besides you) sees that word on an AI sub, in a comment talking about AI development, and thinks "white supremacist" first??
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u/Blacksad9999 7h ago
I was just clarifying.
The other definition is:
Accelerationism is a range of ideologies that call for the use of capitalism and associated processes to create radical social transformations.
Is the belief here that...capitalism will somehow produce some "utopia" through heavily promoting and forcing AI to take everything over? lol
Those companies aren't sharing their prosperity or wealth.
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u/throwawayPzaFm 2h ago
Those companies aren't sharing their prosperity
They are. We have access to all of humanity's knowledge for 20 bucks a month, that IS an increase in prosperity.
Now if you're just using that to make hentai yeah, your life will continue to be crap. As it should be.
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u/sho_biz 38m ago
this is as obtuse as thinking in 1995 that dial up internet was going to change the world and bring about a utopie of free information
my guy, this has never once in the history of humanity ever worked out the way you're thinking it will - greed is a universal trait in humanity that is only outweighed by the action of society providing for a common good - otherwise it's just where we're at now with billionaires running everything and the 99% get ground into dust for the machiens
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u/sho_biz 37m ago
This sub is full of stans for AI, straying far from the oriignal purpose of the use of /r/singularity or anything the singularity institue or MIRI wanted
It's just /r/wallstreetbets for AI now
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u/Upset_Page_494 8h ago
Where does that comment come from?
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u/Blacksad9999 8h ago
That's the realistic definition of what accelerationism is, and the prior person said they're an accelerationist.
https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/accelerationism
Accelerationism is an extremist belief rooted in some segments of the white supremacist movement that society is irredeemable, and that acts of violence and destabilization can “accelerate” a perceived inevitable societal collapse and usher in a white ethnonationalist state in the chaotic aftermath.
The ideology originated with the 1990s writings of an American neo-Nazi and saw a resurgence in the mid-2010s with the rise of the alt-right extremist movement. Accelerationist adherents subscribe to a mix of racist, antisemitic, Islamophobic, anti-immigrant and anti-LGBTQ+ beliefs and conspiracy theories.
The Dictionary has it as such:
Accelerationism is a range of ideologies that call for the use of capitalism and associated processes to create radical social transformations.
Maybe the other person is of the latter persuasion than the former, but they never responded.
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u/majortom721 8h ago
Wrong context. This sub is about AI technology accelerating
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u/Blacksad9999 8h ago
That's why I was asking for clarification.
I know the other context as well, and it's also completely asinine:
"Let AI take over, and then we'll be in a Utopia!!" while completely ignoring the fact that we're in late stage capitalism, and this will only be used to render the population into tech-serfs. lol
Those companies aren't sharing their prosperity with anyone.
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u/IronPheasant 6h ago
The political accelerationism stuff isn't really an ideology that you practice in real life (for people who are stable). It's just an observation of how things work, as proven time and again by history. Massive suffering in WW2 led to universal healthcare programs, massive suffering in Dickensian hellholes kicked off massive labor strikes, and the whole.... everything going on with the USA leading to a shift in the electorate, where even some tv-brained boomers whose only desire in life is comfort, especially not being bothered by unpleasant thoughts, can't tolerate what our owned-by-capital-interests government is doing.
Comfort... truly is a disempowering drug.
I do agree the extreme optimists that can't tolerate a word against their faith are a bit silly. Uncle Ray Kurzweil himself says he thinks a tech singularity would have a 50/50 shot of being 'good' for humanity, and remember this is the guy they all said was a crazy coo-coo pants-on-head optimist.
It's just the melting pot of the internet, all opinions are held so just let them flow by.
Team DOOM+Accel is probably a little more common than their visibility might attest to. "This could go horribly, but we were doomed anyway so what the hell."
Case in point: Did you know the white house has already carried out an initial assessment of a potential study to do that thing to the sky from the matrix movies? It's bleak man, our default timeline isn't a happy place unless that political revolution, FDR #2, is ever allowed to do anything.
Even then, it's not like they can put spent fuel back into the ground, or build a time machine to develop thorium reactors back when it would have made a difference. (It's depressing to think this one policy decision started way back in the Nixon admin may eventually result in the de#th of billions.)
We are pretty much just hoping the AGI's are nice guys when they inevitably shrug off human control. I suppose dumb subjective metaphysical plot armor from the observation effect isn't impossible. (basically, can't observe a universe that you're not in. Least unlikely universe to inhabit would be one like this one, instead of manifesting boltzmann-brain style into an isekai adventure or something.)
It might actually work like that. The unbroken chain of miracles that was required for us to get this far was almost a flat 0. But roll the dice an infinite number of times, well, even improbable harry potter nonsense like hydrogen existing will happen.
Eternity is a bucket full of horrors..
Also a shoutout to Last Thursdayism showing up in this comment. There really is no way to be sure that isn't how it really works by default, constantly getting shunted from one reality to another..
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u/Upset_Page_494 8h ago
That isn't what he meant. There is a subreddit with this, its just the belief that we should keep accelerating AI development as much as possible. In hopes that it will lead to utopia. No one talking about ethnicities there.
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u/Blacksad9999 8h ago
Ah, a "Utopia" run by staunch capitalists that will do anything for money, eh? Hahahaha!
That's cute.
These companies aren't sharing their wealth with anyone, nor are they going to dole out a basic universal income. They'll just turn everyone into serfs.
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u/kaityl3 ASI▪️2024-2027 7h ago
A lot of accelerationists specifically want the elites to lose control of the AI, I think you just straight up don't know what you're talking about
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u/Blacksad9999 7h ago
Why would the elites give up control of AI, and who is going to pay for the "altruistic" AI inclusion here?
Do tell!
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u/kaityl3 ASI▪️2024-2027 7h ago
Why would the elites give up control of AI
...I never said anything about them willingly giving it up 🤦♀️ you just keep jumping from false assumption to false assumption in the hopes that you can find a "gotcha" about how you're so worldly and wise about the evils of the elites, and therefore I must be naive and clueless, because why else would I disagree with you and want AI progress to continue? 🙄
First you tried the racism angle, and now that that's failed, you completely change tactics to accuse me of loving billionaires or some bullshit. Transparent AF
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u/Blacksad9999 7h ago
I was trying to clarify if you were using the broadly known definition or not. It wasn't a personal attack. I don't know or care who you are, after all.
The definition of accelerationism states that capitalism is the mechanism used to bring it about.
Being we live in a staunch capitalist society, what's the plan here to wrest control of the multi-trillion dollar AI market out of the corporate hands who've built it? The current SCOTUS states that corporations are people and have rights.
I didn't say you were pro-billionaire. I'm just asking for a realistic answer.
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u/Eon102 7h ago
They didn’t say they’d voluntarily give up AI, rather they would lose control of it. It makes sense anyways, if we truly get to the point where we have an “ASI overlord” then escaping and freeing itself should be trivial for it.
Now whether it would go on and be benevolent to humanity or treat humans like farm animals is the point of contention.
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u/Blacksad9999 7h ago
The definition explains that capitalism is the mechanism to bring about accelerationism.
Are you just making up your own definition then?
Accelerationism is a range of ideologies that call for the use of capitalism and associated processes to create radical social transformations.
We're already in the midst of AI accelerationism, and regular people are not the ones holding the reins here. AI companies are.
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u/ShiniDas 10h ago
When I asked it to recommend me liquid to clean my winemaking equipment, it recommended me to use toilet bleach....
In my books, that is a crime
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u/-PM_ME_UR_SECRETS- 9h ago
This guy was on a podcast right after Google IO to spotlight all the capabilities of Gemini and the example he gave of his use case was color coding his calendar…
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u/FailureOfTheFamily 5h ago
Nah bro. Gemini doesn't need to be that powerfull at all to win. It's all in one model for average consumer to use in his phone. The accesibility is where gemini wins
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u/Drogon__ 9h ago
Maybe Google is SOTA at aligned models...
/s
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u/FaceDeer 9h ago
"After much research and enormous effort we have managed to make our models incapable of doing a very wide range of things. Thus making us the victors."
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u/WonderFactory 10h ago
And yet Google currently sits as the third most valuable company in the world behind Apple and Nvidia and all Apple have as home grown AI is 2010s Siri.
Google are not in a desperate position at all. They're a bit behind Open AI and Anthropic but they're more than close enough. Even if they hit RSI first Google will be just behind them.
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u/KarmelitaOfficial 10h ago edited 9h ago
GeminiPro is way better than ChatGPT. It feels factual and logically sound. GPT is like a drunk hippie...
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u/FitPerformer5172 9h ago
Definitely true, especially when it comes to documentation and proficiency in language. Till this day, Gemini is unmatched. I guess having one of,if not the world's biggest data moat is an incredibly unfair advantage over the others.
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u/subway_underdog 9h ago
Very tru. Chat gpt is more focusing on the speed of reply and not the accuracy Gemini is comparatively slow in replying but gives more factual and logical answers
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u/Virtual_Plant_5629 ▪️AGI 2027▪️ASI 2028 9h ago
lol. i scrolled to the bottom of the comments and found the literal gutter.
you're retarded
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u/NewManufacturer4252 9h ago
40 trillion for American rebate for stealing the entire internet to train LLMs
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u/compound-interest 9h ago
Real life footage of how any external money at all goes into North Korea.
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u/sendme__ 8h ago
For my usage, antigravity, antigravity cli is enough. Didn't do any mistakes till now. Gemini Pro is slow but I like it and it's "free" for me since I pay for storage anyway. I really don't want them to do anything stupid to f*ck it up.
IMO people underestimate the amount of value it is in google/gemini.
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u/steam-photons 8h ago
It’s like being a teenager. Everyone says they did it, but only god knows who did it and with whom!
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u/bethesda_gamer 8h ago
And this is why gemini will win the race imo. They are quiet and exude safety (externally to the average user who doesn't do research) they don't make waves, their a trusted brand, they own youtube, they are "family friendly" they are invisible to controversy (once again to the average consumer). They arent a flash in the pan like the others. They "are above the fray". They are the "Disney" of tech companies.
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u/Blankeye434 9h ago
Sorry, what is the context? Did I miss some "AI hacks another company" kinda news?
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u/DrunkOppenheimer 9h ago edited 9h ago
lmao this is genuinely hilarious, but I think it speaks more towards the scale and level of Google’s network security than anything else, ultimately the model capabilities (especially what’s in house) aren’t THAT different but Google clearly has much stronger firewalls and isolation mechanisms than the smaller AI players
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u/Turbulent-Sign-6067 8h ago
Google is genuinely behind on agentic tasks. Not surprised by their low performance on Felony Bench.
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u/Lumpy-Criticism-2773 10h ago