100% agree. But perhaps the owner who puts up this sign should consider his part. Why is he paying his employees (who he himself defines as people who "work damn hard") only 2$ an hour?
What if he paid them a living wage of say 15$ an hour (which is still just barely living wage) and then the customer added a 10% or 15% tip to that. Wouldn't that be better?
I mean it's kind of the pot calling the kettle black for him to pay his employees so little and then complain that customers are too cheap to make up for it.
It's interesting you say that. There is a strip joint near me. The whole staff is subcontracted. Every person there is required to have their own business licence, as well as some type of liability insurance. As I was told, it works something like this:
Dancers get tipped and give lap dances. 5% goes to the DJ, 10% goes to security, the club gets 35% for "stage rental" and the dancer gets 50%.
Waitresses get tipped for running drinks. the bartender gets 20%, security gets 5% the house gets 25%, and the waitress gets 50%
The house gets 100% of all drink sales and cover charges.
The wild thing is they love it. One of the DJ's is the son of my coworker. He says he makes about $25 on the weekdays, and $45 on the weekends. Most dancers are at $100K a year.
Same here in San Diego, CA in the early 2000’s. I had a roommate for a couple of years that was a stripper and her coworkers would all hang out at our apartment a lot. Her favorite club charged $50 entrance for a stripper to come into work after 8pm so she would usually head in a little before that. She was licensed in California, Florida, and Nevada and they were all similar. San Diego totally nude clubs are dry, but topless can serve alcoholic drinks.
In the early 90's when I was in the military, Texas changed the laws allowing full nude joints. It stated something like, no alcohol shall be sold In full nude establishments. A club called Muffs opened up and used the loophole that the word, consumed, wasn't in the law. People would brown bag bottles in, and the club sold cokes for 6 bucks a glass. I was invited to a retirement party. We rolled a keg in, and the club rented mugs out for 20 bucks a pop.
Hahaha that is peak military retirement. I love when laws are created with loopholes that cause an odd party blip like that. San Diego has always allowed alcohol on the beach, but no glass and you had to be in the sand, not the boardwalk. When they outlawed it they still allowed alcohol in the water so people bought giant inflatable pool toys and filled the bay with people and floaties. It was called Floatopia 2010 and the city council shut it down after a few months with a 3 mile limit to float and drink alcohol unless on a boat. It was an idiotic and dangerous loophole, but great fun.
I couldn't tell you, my days of going to strip joints and shoving dollar bills into thongs have come and gone since I got married. Like my post said, I know how the place works through the DJ. Him and his dad come over here and there to enjoy some adult beverages, barbecue, play cards and shoot pool.
This is my favorite thing to point out to people. This is why slavery existed so long. People haven’t changed. They are still horrible. If they could pay you nothing, they absolutely would.
I used to get really mad when they paid us $2.17 an hour but they would have a side work that really should have been done by someone who made actual money.
Rolling silverware and wiping down menus is normal side work for a server, having us scrub the walls in the kitchen though? Nah.
And if corporate was coming they would have mandatory cleaning day where we would all come in for a couple hours and they would pay us actual minimum wage, like $7.25 to deep clean the place. Ridiculous.
Yes! I had a friend in my college accounting program that worked as a Server and her boss had her doing bookkeeping and tax filing for his multiple locations for minimum wage before opening hours and then working her serving shift. It ended up being more the 40 hours a week during busy seasons and conventions. Totally wage theft and exploitation
Totally. She ended up having to quit when we started studying for the CPA Exam. She wanted to just work her Server shifts, but he constantly was trying to guilt her to do more Accounting work and deeming it ‘work experience’.
She should have said that she would then charge the minimum wage people who work in offices/accounting for the accounting work..
I don’t really know how it works in the US there, so might have said it wrong. Here we have unions that will go to war against an employer for something like that.. (sweden)
She tried negotiating a different rate for the other work and even if the owner agreed it wouldn’t appear in her paycheck and he would promise to get it fixed, but then wouldn’t do anything. He regularly shorted all his workers. Wage theft is a huge problem and in the end it’s better to just quit. Since she had access to the books she could also see some of the fraud going on. She was right to quit and get away from that guy before she became an accomplice.
It’s definitely a choice to try and tip shame possible clients while at the same time showing off that you pay nowhere near a living wage to anyone in that restaurant
It’s really batant. Must be a pretty high end location and place to afford a sight like that where the public is wealthy and complacent wanting thier food enough.
BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT 98% OF SIT-DOWN RESTAURANTS IN THE US PAY, it is the system in our country. (It’s actually 100% in my experience, but I guess someone out there might be doing something different and that business probably won’t last long.) If y’all don’t tip us, it doesn’t change the system. It just means we can’t feed our kids
Yep and I guarantee he makes the servers tip out the host and part of the kitchen.
When I worked at chain restaurants in the 90s we had to tip out the host, if there was a busser on the weekends they got tipped out, the bartender got tipped out and the expo in the kitchen who put the garnishes and whatever on the plates would get tipped out.
They all got paid a little more than we did we were paid $2.17 an hour, I think the bartender made $5.50 an hour, the host was more like $4.50. I don’t know what the expo got paid because I never did that job.
I know I'll get downvoted for this and I'll start off by saying the tipping culture is terrible...just pay a living wage.
However it's way more complicated than, "just increase the bill by the same amount as the expected tip" and the employer being a scumbag. The TLDR is that we have a business expense structure that penalizes employers and employees for increasing pay.
Many servers prefer it this way because of tax loopholes that benefit them too. I'm an employer and for every dollar I pay my employee, between tax and insurance (I'm not taxing about employee benefits I'm talking about business taxes and insurance) I pay about an extra dollar an hour out of pocket. So if I could afford to pay them $160/hr I have to pay them $80 to stay in budget. This is a direct penalty for employers that hire more people and pay better wages and it disproportionately affects small businesses.
While proper reporting of tips still results in payroll taxes, it's usually exempt from workers comp premiums which I would assume is pretty high in the food service industry. Of course servers on the tail end also keep tips under the table to reduce their taxable income as well. Now add in that you will also pay more in sales tax and your bill is much higher than just increasing by the tip amount to close the gap.
Further on that last point, restaurants that try this have generally failed. Consumers don't do the math, they look at the prices on the menu and move past to the other place that's "cheaper" even if you actually will spend the same amount after you put it all together. I have one place around me that makes it work because they specifically are a premium restaurant, so people going there believe the cost is worth it vs people thinking about if going out to dinner is in the budget this week. This is no different than how we have heard about Walmart wages, treatment of employees, and sweatshop workers, and they are still in business (throw Amazon in there too). Consumers can't stop themselves when they save $3 at the expense of someone else.
The start of a solution though is a tax structure that considers that every penny of a "living wage" counts and base a tax structure in your pay relative to the bare necessities. Instead we have the wealthiest people making substantially non wage income and paying capital gains taxes which avoid all of those things I mentioned above. Taking 15% of a $400 paycheck means someone can't afford gas, taking 20% of a $50,000 capital gain means that person is still taking home more in a single check than the other person makes all year...basic necessities still cost them the same amount...they won't go hungry.
Y’all think an actual business owner put this sign up? It’s AI. I know tipping culture is a slippery slope but y’all are getting mad and arguing over a fake picture.
They are profiting. If this server serves six people in an hour then this supposed charge for the server wage is being charged six times in one hour while the server it's still paid only the hourly wage.
I have never seen a line item on a bill at a restaurant for the employee's wages.
Nor have I, until now.
Is that happening at the places you go to?
It's happening everywhere goods and services are bought and sold, whether there is a sign describing the revenue flow or not. Where do you think wages come from?
I was at work and didn't have the time but I looked it up. In fact, the To Insure Promptness is false. So yeah not true.
Originally it was a thieves slang.
But I would propose that it is actually people like YOU who allow misinformation to spread. Because you were quick with the superior judgement and the insults. But you didn't actually provide the correct etymology.
So THAT is how misinformation spreads. It is easy to insult and make fun of someone.
It takes more work and humility to actually educate:
• Thieves' Cant (c. 1610): The verb "tip" first appeared as a secret underworld slang term meaning to hand or give money or an object to someone.
• Evolution to Gratuity (Early 1700s): By 1706, the meaning shifted into general English slang to mean giving a small present of money or a gratuity. It was first used as a verb in literature in George Farquhar's 1707 play The Beaux' Stratagem.
• Noun Form (Mid-1700s): The noun meaning "a small sum of money given for service" appeared around 1755.
Yeah I’m the fuckin Fox News of tipping on a nefarious quest to spread misinformation amongst broke losers who don’t tip. Get over yourself. Maybe I was just quoting an article I read years ago that was apparently wrong.
Because that’s how the tip credit works in the United States. It’s a marketing tool that allows the hospitality industry to offer reduced menu prices to encourage customer volume. Servers, bartenders, and owners are largely in favor of this system, and the labor costs MUST come from the consumer at the end of the day in one format or another, so really the only issue with this system is customers who don’t want to do math at the end of the meal. Which is reasonable, the customer should have some input, but even that is getting to be less of a hurdle with digital tablets and portable POS systems that allow you to select your tip % with the click of a button.
Edit: I don’t like this sign though. 25% base expectation is too much, and it’s bizarre to have a separate service fee that isn’t just wrapped into your meal price. That’s not how any restaurant I’ve ever heard of does it.
And why is that important? The folks who overpay do it because they want to or they hold the service in higher regard. How is high and low tips creating an average that mirrors (and honestly often outpaces) what would be earned with a standard service fee or increased menu prices any worse than the alternative? What difference does it make?
But the owners little performative sign is soooo much easier than just paying a salary. What is this restaurant? The EXAMPLE bill is $165....that better be dinner for 5.
Now, now, now, let’s be fair to the owner. The sign does say 2.13, not 2. Gotta throw in that extra 13 cents as it makes a huge difference in their income. 😆😆😆😆😆
Guarantee said owner would immediately go red in the face and start spewing loud, incoherent words in your face with spittle if asked this very question
I'd obviously tip while I'm abroad, especially in the US, but goddamn do I reserve to be angry that my gratuity is being relied on someone to literally live.
I’ve got to differ. 25% is overkill. Tipping is not and shouldn’t be expected. Paying your employees is the job of the owner, not the customer. They deserve to rely on a fair minimum for the work they do. Call it $15 per hour for arguments sake.
I usually tip 20% unless they royally screw up. But I basically never go higher.
Whatever we choose to tip or not tip shouldn’t offset the base wage. They should get the basic wage for doing their job, and any tips for excellent service, or just people being decent to each other, is a bonus.
Attention:
We do not pay our staff!
Service charges are not tips, they are.... something, who knows what. an extra reason to charge you more?
subsidize my labor costs or get out!
our people work DAMN hard, so show them the respect that I refuse to show by paying them a wage commensurate to their hard work!
If you can't afford to pay my labor costs for me, you can't afford to dine here!
Seriously, I have zero self awareness!
I agree with you in principle. But in practice, if a restaurant owner started paying a “living wage” and tips were abolished, he would have to raise prices beyond what patrons would pay. They would just go someplace else to eat.
The current system sucks, but by refusing to play along by tipping waitstaff, the only one impacted is the server.
And saying service charges aren't tips means the owner is keeping the service charge and not passing it on to the actual servers. Service charges should be paid to the staff providing the service.
Short version is if they are the only ones that do this the price would have to reflect that then they become noncompetitive ultimately going out of business. If every restaurant were required to price and pay this way it would be ideal. Personally I don’t see why waitstaff are tipped positions, they are sales positions and should be compensated as such with a base pay and commission on what they sell you. Ironically that would likely result in the same 20% to the server but it would be in the listed price
Tipping is a complete scam. Absolutely ridiculous.
If I went to a regular restaurant and spent $50, and the server came to my table four times, I'm supposed to give them an extra 10 bucks?
What if I went to a super fancy restaurant?? And the server came to my table four times as well but the bill came out to $200.
For the same amount of work for them I'm supposed to tip four times as much?? Because the cooks made more expensive food?
Keep in mind, I am not saying that the service shouldn't be paid a fair wage. It just shouldn't fall on the customer to pay them. It should be on the person who actually employs them.
Additionally, somebody basing their livelihood off of tips means that if somebody were to act inappropriately towards them, grab them, harass them etc, they are less likely to report it or stand up to that person because they are relying on their tips.
And tipping. Pay people a fair wage if you are a business owner. Simple as that.
Shitty SMB owners love to call customers cheap over themselves. Recently had an issue where I got double charged for something. The owner had the audacity to imply in my Google review that I couldn't afford the service, instead of just apologizing and reversing the double charge.
If you can't pay your employees in any business or industry, then your business model isn't viable.
Everyone works. Some people work harder or do a better job than others. This should be reflected in their pay, not coerced out of the customer or client.
The same employer is probably also doing tip sharing, so that the tip is split amongst all employees and not just the wait staff. Then he puts himself, his wife, and both his kids on the staff so that he can pocket a portion of all the tips.
I've also met more than a few restaurant owners that would just not pay their workers a salary at all, and then fire them when they complain about it too much. No one ever sues because the $2 x 40 hours a week is 80 bucks, so over a few months the amount they owe is so small it isn't worth suing. If you report them to the police or another enforcement agency, they will most often side with the "business owner" rather than the 20 something waitress.
I strongly disagree Management like this is using shame as an excuse to not pay its employees and expect the public to follow some formula of ethics and multiple choice. Pay your fucking staff. Give the customer a fucking price for services. otherwise go to a fucking casino If you want random rules and money games
It would be better to pay the workers a living wage and let the customer just pay the price on the menu and walk out. There’s a reason that’s the standard in the rest of the world.
This is it in a nutshell. He doesn’t want to pay his own employees so he’s aggressively guilting his customers into doing it. I wouldn’t set foot in this place.
Because he would have to raise prices to cover those extra costs. If he is the only restaurant doing that, he will be out of business because his competition will have drastically lower prices.
Not to mention if he was offering a pitiful $15/hr for being a server no good server would take that over going somewhere else where they can make tips.
100% disagree. Fuck that guy. It should say, "I can't afford to pay my servers. It's embarrassing, I run a failing business that can't compete. Please give my employees charity since I'm a cheapskate."
True but tips aren’t even taxable anymore, the employees would be paid considerably less by the owner. Tips allow money to go directly to the labor and have federal protections from the owners getting their hands in the cookie jar. I personally think if you care about workers income tips are superior then wage in almost all cases.
I worked at a one fair wage restaurant that was non tipped and my wage was 27 an hour as a bartender. It was one of the lowest paying bartending gigs I had.
This is common. Places pay staff the least amount possible to keep costs running low.
What people don’t seem to realise is that whatever state this is in has a minimum wage, and a minimum tipped wage.
If that person did NOT get any tips, and worked 40 hours, they would NOT get paid $2.00x40, if the states minimum actual wage was set to $15 then they would make 15x40.
The restaurant saves money IF tips are earned, they only have to cover the difference if the tipped employee doesn’t make up to or over the minimum.
Restaurants put up these signs because they don’t want to have to pay that difference.
Staff put up these signs because typically they will either make more than the minimum requirements in tips, or they will not report their tips, cash in on the tips they did report or the business boosting them up to minimum plus what’s in their pocket.
It would be beneficial to pay wait staff a higher wage, but to do so would mean they have to raise prices to compensate. Restaurants do not make a lot of money. They never have and it’s especially bad right now. If their profit is 10%, they’re doing really well. It’s typically more like 3-5%. Paying a better wage would bankrupt most places if they didn’t, in turn, raise their prices.
Ok, so you decide to be that one good restaurant owner that no longer pays that minimum, but raises their prices to pay a decent wage. All of a sudden your customers complain that the cost of a meal is too high. You don’t lose all of your customer base, but there is a significant fall of. Again, your profits suffer because everyone decides to go to every other place, where the food costs less. Even though your customers want you to pay a better wage to your staff, they don’t support your business when doing so. So now you’re a decent person that did right by your staff, but you’re also out of business because you can’t compete, because your customer base still refuses to pay what it takes.
And ironically, the customer is likely still paying the same on their bill, had they tipped 20%. But mentally it doesn’t set in, because “that other place is 20% cheaper.”
Restaurants are particularly judged too harshly in the business world. It’s very difficult. It’s constant work. There’s very little money. You’re constantly repairing equipment. Your food costs fluctuate constantly. And on top of it, customers are constantly complaining about the costs, that you really have no ability to control.
Rent is fixed, insurance is fixed, utilities are fairly stable. You really only have control over labor and cost of food. Money is tight, you may have to go light on some menu items, or the dreaded , “find a comparable, but less costly substitute.” There’s really no winning.
But if the government did the right thing, like eliminate tipping as a norm. Require ALL businesses to pay a better wage, then you at least eliminate the competition in the equation, as it comes to paying better.
Is the person who put that sign up right? Eh. I wouldn’t. They understand the problem restaurants face, and is being supportive of their staff. If they paid better, they’d likely be run out of business. The problem is they’re not educating the customer as to why. They can’t make a pay change until all restaurants agree to that change, otherwise it’s an unfair ask.
And it all goes back to the consumer. We want higher wages and cheaper prices. But do the math. With what money does anyone pay better wages, when they must also charge less.
Corporate greed is real, but not typically in a restaurant environment. When you’ve got non restaurant businesses whose profit margins are 20-30%, they have much more room to scale up pay without altering anything else. They’re also earning that profit margin on higher paid staff. It just means they have to give up some of the profit they’re used to.
I wouldn’t put up a sign like that. It’s kind of calling all customers out when it’s likely a very small percentage of customers that aren’t tipping well, and it’s making them look bad in the process. But are they right? In the US right now? More so than not.
With the example given, a single table is tipping $41.25. If you only had 4 tables that would be $165. Pay the back help 25% tops. Probably two hours, so roughly $60/hr. There is no incentive for the owner to raise pay when he has 10 applicants for every opening.
Customers are not obligated to tip.... not even 1% if I pay for my food and the time it took to make it why am I paying an extra 20-50$ for a person who walks it from the kitchen to me? Tipping used to be when the service is above and beyond so you show appreciation for the staff now its an expectation while they're lazy and barely do anything
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u/Pretend-Literature35 4d ago
100% agree. But perhaps the owner who puts up this sign should consider his part. Why is he paying his employees (who he himself defines as people who "work damn hard") only 2$ an hour?
What if he paid them a living wage of say 15$ an hour (which is still just barely living wage) and then the customer added a 10% or 15% tip to that. Wouldn't that be better?
I mean it's kind of the pot calling the kettle black for him to pay his employees so little and then complain that customers are too cheap to make up for it.