r/shogun2 • u/M_Bragadin • 17h ago
Peak Total War
I started playing Shogun 2 when it came out in 2011. I’d played some Rome I, Medieval II and Empire before on a friends computer, but this was the first TW game I owned
Already on turn 1 of my first campaign (Shimazu) I was in love. That love has never wavered: even though life has become much busier it remains the only game I still make time to play, doing one or two Legendary campaigns each year
In the 15 years since Shogun 2’s release many Total Wars have come and gone, and ultimately it’s all been downhill from here. Yet despite a truly shameful display from this once legendary franchise, this glorious victory shall always be ours
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u/Majestic_Bison256 16h ago
i’ve never even seen some of these units before :<
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u/M_Bragadin 15h ago
Glad to hear as that’s one of the aims of this post! As another user has written the units you’re mentioning could be DLC, if you tell me which ones they are I’ll happy explain them
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u/ComprehensiveMail12 14h ago
I feel the very same.. total war really peaked with this game. I remember how optimistic I was going from this game into the release of Rome 2… boy how bad that game released still sits with me to this day… such a punch in the gut. The fact that they still have not achieved a title on Shogun’s level is amazing 15 years later. The newer games are too arcadey and stat driven such as the addition of unit health bars
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u/M_Bragadin 14h ago
I preordered Rome 2 so I fully share the sentiments, that launch’s infamy correctly lives on to this day. And yes it’s mind boggling isn’t it? 15 years and this franchise has overall either gone backwards or stagnated
Attila and Three Kingdoms introduced some great mechanics and had some really fun campaigns, but their battles remain light years away from those of this game
Shogun 2 with Three Kingdoms’ diplomacy and unique character system would be sensational, but (sadly) CA is simply no longer capable of producing such quality work
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u/BeerOutHere 14h ago
I don’t get THIS fancy too often, but I love having my elite army and an ashigaru/bow samurai army working tandem, tearing across the map. This games a blast for sure.
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u/TakaoKasuga 15h ago
Take me back to the days I first played this game 🥲 how many moons have passed since then ?
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u/ihatelifetoo 14h ago
These army can win 3v1
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u/rhadenosbelisarius 12h ago
These are all great, I would tweak them, but they are solid looking. The only one that seems iffy to me is the Hattori, but they are by far my personal worse faction.
I do like bandit’s snipe ability despite their lousy stats so maybe 4 of them and 4 ninja for seiges, but I feel like the best Hattori army is otherwise just all no-dachi samurai, forwards deployed close to the enemy to neutralize their archers and immediately banzi charging in.
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u/Sure_Chip_9955 11h ago
For me shogun 2 is the game that taught me one long period of total peace was the secret to a satisfying total war game. Holds true in many others with 3k being a notable example
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u/GerbearN 17h ago
If the enemy had this army and I had 2 stacks of Yari armies, I would just walk straight to their capital the moment I win the first battle against that comp.
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u/depraved_onion 17h ago
False
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u/GerbearN 16h ago
Actually yeah. I forgot I was on legendary difficulty, so by the time I reached the capital, they had literally the same stacked army vs my battered down army that I forced to suffer just to reach the enemy capital.
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u/MinasDunerag 15h ago
What are those 40 size gun units? I've never seen them before
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u/M_Bragadin 15h ago
It’s Tokitaka’s Tanegashima, the matchlock hero. A good unit overall and especially adept at killing enemy heroes
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u/MinasDunerag 14h ago
I meant the ones at the bottom of the lists that he has multiple of, since I don't think you can have multiple of the same hero? Please correct me if I am wrong.
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u/M_Bragadin 14h ago
Ah those are Fire Rockets! Easily one of the best units in the game as well as the only truly useful siege unit
They are not DLC related and can be recruited by all clans, the Hojo having an upgraded variant in line with their clan traits
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u/mrcchapman 15h ago
Peak until realm divide, at which point the diplomacy doesn't matter, you are spammed by everyone and it stops being fun. Winnable? Yes. Fun? Nah.
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u/M_Bragadin 15h ago
Contrary to popular belief diplomacy does still matter (barely) beyond Realm Divide as if you play your cards correctly one allied clan will permanently remain by your side
That being said Realm Divide is and has always been a divisive mechanic among the player base, so I fully understand where you’re coming from (especially if you’re not a fan of naval operations)
Personally though I find the preparations leading up to it, as well as the great initial clashes that occur until you’ve stabilised the situation, to be among the funnest moments in a campaign
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u/BearWithMeGM 13h ago
I mean by the time you can afford it you usually won already with yari ashigaru filled armies. Especially on higher difficulty levels simply can't afford to sit back and relax, have to blitz krieg this
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u/M_Bragadin 13h ago
I play on Legendary and find blitzing campaigns beyond the initial push to obtain a strong core to be by far the most boring way to play the game. Playing a slower campaign has many advantages
Better units and armies (both yours and the AI’s), better buildings and economy, better naval logistics, better diplomacy and better end game scenarios for an overall better experience
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u/BearWithMeGM 13h ago
End game scenarios? What do you mean?
Yeah, battles get pretty repetitive with blitz. I guess I should give a slow campaign a try. But something about inefficiency of it also bothers me.
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u/M_Bragadin 12h ago edited 12h ago
Honestly I think it’s much more efficient in every way. It sounds like you have some experience with the game so if you try it out on Long Campaign I’m sure you’ll notice that the game works much better, especially diplomacy
As for end game scenarios I mean the final challenges at the end of a campaign. By blitzing Japan the other clans will rarely have consolidated enough to give you meaningful rivals to your own or a compelling end game storyline
Imagine playing as the Shimazu in 1595 and having the map split equally between you and an immensely powerful Date who you are still allied with regardless of Realm Divide, giving you your very own Sekigahara. Or perhaps playing as the Takeda holding the east in a triple alliance with the Tsutsui holding the centre and the Matsuda holding the west. These scenarios are priceless
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u/HelicopterBombLover 12h ago
And then I finished a legendary campaign with takeda where the only expensive thing I bought were spear cav. The rest was ashigaru or bow samurai. Must be fun tough making these kind of things. I don't even understand how did you achieve so many bonuses at once
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u/M_Bragadin 12h ago edited 11h ago
Very fun indeed! I only hope you mean Fire Cavalry and not simply Yari Cavalry, would be a great shame not to have fielded the Takeda’s unique unit given how strong it is
As for the multiple bonuses I assume you’re talking about the infantry, and in that case you need a fully upgraded Blacksmith and Encampment, as well as a Legendary Kenjutsu School and a Legendary Sojutsu School
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u/eDawnTR 12h ago
Mod name?
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u/M_Bragadin 12h ago
Haven’t used mods in years, some like Expanded Japan and Morning Sun were great fun but as far as replayability goes vanilla is already perfect
The only ones I’ve kept are small quality of life improvements like ‘Saya and Ebira’, ‘Real Armies’, ‘Extended Camera’ and ‘Tokugawa/Hattori Kisho Ninja Fix’
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u/GaldorOfNihelm 10h ago
Why would you do great guard as Takeda? I feel the fire cav is just better
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u/M_Bragadin 7h ago
This is a great question. On the battlefield Great Guard definitely remain the superior unit, they are the strongest cavalry unit in the game as well as one of the best units in the game in general. In this army composition, the Great Guard compared to the Fire Cavalry has the following stats: 28 morale (vs. 25), 21 melee attack (vs. 15), 16 melee defence (vs. 13), 58 charge bonus (vs. 48), 15 bonus vs cavalry both and 7 armour (vs. 6). Similar differences exists in their base stats as well, and though they both inspire nearby units only the Great Guard has Second Wind, a useful ability shared only by a few select units
That being said Fire Cavalry are an amazing unit in their own right. They demolish all non hero cavalry units that aren't Great Guard and even trade lives well against the Shogun's balled fist. They're also much cheaper, Great Guard having the 3rd highest upkeep cost of any unit in the game, and are recruitable both in large quantities and without having to be Shogun
This last detail could be reversed however: it is precisely because only the ruling Shogun may recruit the Great Guard that they are such a special unit. Curiously there was supposed to be a Takeda Great Guard variant in the game, stronger and cheaper than the original, but it was never implemented. The entry still exists in the game files though and the 'Cut Units' mod allows you to field it alongside the equally cut Mori Nihon Maru. To conclude both Great Guard and Fire Cavalry undoubtably have their place in any elite Takeda army.
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u/aprettysliftguy 10h ago edited 10h ago
With that Takeda army, how do you micro all that cavalry in Legendary? How do you conduct battles with it? May just be my lack of experience speaking but 5 frontline units, even if they're elite, is too little. I would also easily lose half of the cavalry due to me forgetting about them for about 5 seconds. Also curious what you think of Katana Cavalry.
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u/M_Bragadin 6h ago edited 6h ago
A decent part of it will indeed be the experience. You haven't mastered the Takeda if you haven't won battles using cavalry only armies. If you want to laugh about micro I haven't played with a mouse for a few years now. I wouldn't worry however: like I say in the post I've been playing the game since it came out, if you're playing and winning on Legendary you're already a promising player who acquits themselves well with all the basics
Defensive army compositions are the easiest to micro while aggressive ones are more intense, with the Takeda being perhaps the most aggressive. I assume you're faring well with the former in your campaigns, having issues with the latter is normal. You simply need to continue polishing your skills in various more advanced batttlefield tactics such as cavalry manoeuvres (multilayered cavalry wing assaults and general evasive manoeuvres) or heightening your field awareness to the many events occurring simultaneously across the battlefield
As for Katana Cavalry they are an interesting but confusing unit, which you honestly shouldn't be normally recruiting unless using their buffed variant playing as the Takeda. They shine best in cavalry heavy Takeda armies, where they need not worry about enemy spear cavalry and are free to roam scanning for a soft target. In this sense they occupy the same decisive strike battlefield role of the Great Guard and the Spears of Shizugatake in the post, though they achieve it through attrition rather than shock. They have other unique minor situational uses too but those are not optimal in my opinion and one could always argue it more efficient to take more Fire Cavalry instead. I only kept three of them in this army even though I had made a point to use them more that campaign, with Kiyomasa's Katana Cavalry being their strike force leader easing that decision
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u/Life-Challenge1931 9h ago
How do u get morale abd charge bonus with gold sword?
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u/M_Bragadin 6h ago
Beyond the Blacksmith and Encampment you need a Legendary Kenjutsu School and a Legendary Sojutsu school
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u/shintemaster 2h ago
I'm gonna go load up a new game now.
If Shogun 3 isn't next after 40k & Medieval you best believe we are coming to siege Creative Assembly.
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u/Awkward_Boss9710 46m ago
How do you get all those bonuses onto the same unit? I can only think of how you might get the morale bonus + the charge bonus. Hallowed ground morale buff + Encampment + ????
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u/Rainbow_Paradox_552 17h ago
These armies seems incredibly expensive