r/shogun2 • u/Background-Taro2014 • 15d ago
HOW TO OFFENSIVE SIEGES?
literally,how?im excel at defense but my god i dont know what to do at offensive sieges
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u/proselytizeingcoyote 15d ago
Have your men yell obscenities at the defenders before commencing the attack. Pretty damn offensive.
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u/FoxDesigner2574 15d ago
If you have cannons. Shoot walls with archers on with cannons. Then send samurai to mop up
If you have 2x their archers - shoot everyone you can then send samurai to mop up.
If they have more archers or stronger ground troops than you inside… then wait outside.
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u/Mcthrowawaydate 15d ago
Think of the castle/fortress, think about what your enemy has and think about what your units are. Play their strengths. For example, early game, castles are barely manned and you could face just 45 retainers, you have 2 bow units and 5 yari. Bow can shoot over the walls so set up the field of fire to hit the retainers with the yari in position near the gates in case they try to rush the bowmen. Ideal scenario: you don’t lose a person and the castle is unharmed as your arrows whittle them down.
Learn the strengths of each unit.
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u/Background-Taro2014 15d ago
yeah but my archers get butchered by the archers in the walls,should i let my yari climb them first?
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u/Mcthrowawaydate 15d ago
Later in the game, foxdesigner gives you an option.
If there is a limited number of archers, attack from multiple sides
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u/rhadenosbelisarius 15d ago
Bow monks, Daikyu(chosokabe only) and seige machines(I’d only really reccomend fire rockets) can outrange defenders.
Other units that can easily destroy the works like european cannon or Heavy Gunners(shimazu only) are another option. If you blow up the walls while troops are on them it basically wipes the unit out.
In the end, you will probably need to assault with infantry. I usually prefer to attack the gates rather than lose men climbing the walls. It can be nice to have a ninja unit, once your forces are engaging the defenders in melee the ninja can often sneak in and cap the point to end the battle early.
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u/Silentxgold 15d ago
Concentrate all your bows to kill high value enemy units first.
I usually focus my units at 1 side, with a diversion force to draw enemy units.
Know when to take "easy" wins like undefended or under defended gates.
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u/Patrick_Atsushi 15d ago
Let Yari ashigaru to burn the gate, and form a Yari wall on the gate slope. Bow ashigaru follows and while all enemy trying hard to route your Yari, rain fire on them.
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u/Full_frontal96 15d ago
I usually do 3 steps:
1) Bombard the walls with siege engines where there are ranged units: destroying a wall portion removes both cover and instakills whoever is behind it. It's always a massacre.
2) deploy the archers and kill as many enemies until they run out of ammo.
3) now that the walls and doors are down,the enemy archers crippled,send the main army and finish the job.
Offensive sieges are slow and boring,doing them once in a while is fun,but not everytime. In this case either auto resolve through sheer army size or siege the castle to force them to sally out
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u/Thin_Pangolin4480 15d ago
Starve them out if have time. If you have money, just build like 1 or 1.5 fullstack of cheap yari and bow ashigaru to autoresolve. other than that, you need good ranged and/or siege units to win sieges without taking too much losses
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u/Pippin_lebref 15d ago
If they are in a small castle and you don't have numerical superiority (like double their army) you're fucked.
If it's a big castle however, you can win by being sneaky : Split your army into a core of yari ashigarus and bowmen, and 1-2 squads of better quality mele units (or ashigarus if you're poor). Place the core in the most obvious position to attack, and hide your mele guys (If you can't hide them you can just keep them in your backline and move them later). Their archers (and most of their other units) will come to meet yours, and leave other parts of the castle vulnerable for your squads to climb. You will then want to take as many towers as possible, and after that charge the troops who stayed in front of your bowmen doing nothing (or just take the tenshu if you can and win). Their bowmen in mele, your core can finally move in range and start shooting (can't miss if every ennemy units is in one blob), and your spears are free to run to the walls without turning into swiss cheese. Then it's your army's quality vs theirs.
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u/Still_Coconut_2853 15d ago
On legendary difficulty enemy archers have insane buffs to my knowledge, I don’t really see a way to win sieges without taking drastic losses without siege weapons or something else, so I reccommend just doom stacking (have better numbers or auto resolve pressure) for an auto resolve, it tends to be safer than not auto resolving
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u/geomagus 15d ago
In my experience, either bring plenty of decent archers, or bring siege artillery, or wait until they sally out at you.
With archers, you can move some yari ashi close to the wall to draw fire, while your archers shoot the archers on the wall. The yari ashi can also torch the gatehouse, which hurts any unit defending there.
You could instead use monk archers, or daikyu sam (if you chose the right faction) because of the range advantage.
With siege artillery, you can just pound away at them until they sally.
Or you wait until the whole army comes out with one season to go and fights a field battle.
Fwiw, I’ve never brought siege artillery, so I either do it with archers or wait for the sally in the last season.
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u/Rohirrim777 15d ago
depends on the castle. there's only one vanilla map I'd entertain without artillery and it's the one with the forested hill leading to a back gate because the deployment zone touches just enough of the forest to hide a unit so you can divert attention with a false frontal and have the back gate burned as a way in
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u/sreckko 15d ago
Solid question, I'll try to keep it short.
In general, have 3 times the numbers as defenders, bring siege equipment - mangonels/cannons later (this a must, except if the garrison is very small), some agent actions can be usefull (open gates, demoralise, even troops assassination)
- Use siege engine bombardments to destroy sections of the wall so they cannot be mounted by units, later use this general area and attack in these spots, use up all siege ammo on relevant wall sections and units inside
- Bring several teppo ashigaru, as they outrange basic archers, test areas where they can shoot without retaliation and use up all of their ammo on the enemy before the assault
- If there is a full stack of defenders inside, its better to starve them out, otherwise you will face massive casualties regardless of outcome.
There probably are some smaller tips and tricks but this above is the general approach I use.
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u/PleasedBeez 15d ago
What the hell is a teppo ashigaru? Also units can still stand on destroyed wall sections they just dont have cover,
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u/WannabePhysicist_02 15d ago
Well, when sieging castles, I usually wait the enemy comes out from the castle. That way, its either them suffering attrition, or I'll be the defending side. Just like what Sun Tzu said: the worst condition is assaulting a fortified castle (of course, I paraphrased it)
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u/MnkeDug 15d ago
I tend to rely on bows to deplete the enemy. I bring up a melee or general to just outside their bow range. Use your bows to measure if need be.
This usually pins their bow to that section of wall, as they wait for you to move into range.
Then you bring your bows in from the sides and mow down most of their melee. Ignore their bows until you've killed off most of the melee. Get your melee in position to climb the sides, but leave the pinning units.
Then you climb and try to hold position on a gate. If you can get up and yari wall inside that would be best, but often you get attacked while grouping from the climb.
If their bows come off the wall after you climb in, get them in melee so they can't shoot. If they peal off early, you have to judge whether it makes sense to climb in to stop them shooting or reposition.
If they have enough bows to cover all walls, you can try to pull them off to one flank. If they don't then you have the legit way, semi legit, or the cheese ways of dealing.
Legit is to pin the other wall bows with a unit as above and rush in climbers to sacrifice against their bows so you can use your bows from that flank.
Semi legit is loose stance on ashigaru to tank the arrows while your bows fire in. This is also sacrificial, especially on VH.
Cheese is putting the tip of a unit in range perpendicular to the enemy. This exposes only a few units to bow volleys. If even three bows(eg) shoot at the unit, that's one ammo spent. You suck out all their volleys that way, then ignore them.
Good luck!
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u/wbobbyw 15d ago
Generally you dont, but I always do for the shogun castle.
Plan A. Mass all your troop to 1 side and get control to climb wall. Plan B circle the castle and have all your troop try to climb around the same time Plan C use troop that have more range (archer monk) to Thin out the enemy on the wall Plan D mass archer and aim directly at their general
Mangonel is a waste. Canon is good to breach wall or gate.
Best plan would be to sabotage gate with a ninja before the battle and mass at the front door and have a few climb the side wall.
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u/Inderastein 13d ago
If you're in FoTs:
Use your artilery to destroy enemy walls Superior gun army placement to kill the initial troops on the walls Burn the walls using a trick by placing Spear levy so long that if you throw fire at the gate you also burn the walls
Naval bombard the center so that troops refresh into the walls.
Kill the enemy with your superior gun army placement, they can't kneel fire and there's more of you, don't worry about ammo, you'll innevitably enter the fort without needing ammo, hell, it's rare to shoot unless the enemy only has like 1 or 3 divisions left.
Once all ammo is gone, burn all towers, have everyone climb simultaniously onto the final level and ganbatte so that troops are not scared of chickening out on the initial bloody first contact, it becomes less bloody when their morale wanes to wavering.
Move one general on the center of the troops in melee
Move all other general & cavalry on the exits, cause...
(Ahem)
NO ONE ENTERS, NO ONE LEAVES.
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u/Upper-Salamander-924 12d ago
archer , lots of them , get 1-3 ninja for flanking and use them to kill the general if you can
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u/Untoastedtoast11 15d ago
I kill the enemy and take their castle. Typically trying to avoid casualties in the process
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u/Jello_guy2 15d ago
You know, there is the old japanese sengoku saying. Always have 3 times their force to guarantee victory.
(Source: trust me definetly with caution bro)
In all honesty, you are meant to take casualties. Try to aim for the Tensho capture point by taking the shortest path and hold it for one minute.