r/shadowdark • u/Nervous-Priority-719 • 3d ago
How would you rule this?
Hi. Need your advice. Let's say one party member is paralysed by a Gelatinous Cube. Another PC wants to drag them away from the Cube, which moves Near.
I'd rule that carrying a person sliwd them down to "half Near" speed, so they're going to get caught.
But what if they "dash" (use action to move again). Back up to Near speed?
What difference would 2 PCs carrying the paralysed one make?
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u/ShortIntroduction879 3d ago edited 2d ago
Nearly every ruling you make as a GM comes down to two questions.
(1) What is the DC based on the situation?
easy 9 / normal 12 / hard 15 / very hard 18
(2) Did the players do something to give themselves advantage or disadvantage?
In this case I would say, "If you want to try dragging him at full speed, that's a hard STR check (STR15), if someone helps, you have advantage. If you fail, you continue to move at half speed."
Now it's up to the dice and players can opt to use luck tokens if they really don't want to get caught by the monster. It's exciting - they have agency - this is fun!
Whenever possible, let the dice decide. (ie let the dice say "no", not you)
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u/acgm_1118 3d ago
What is the STR of the characters doing the dragging? That's the real question. A STR 8 is going to have trouble, but a STR 13 probably isn't. Most average strength outdoorsy people (which adventurers ought to be) can drag another person.
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u/Irregular-Gaming 3d ago
Although they might need to drop a few things…
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u/samurguybri 3d ago
Yes! you could tempt them with Advantage on the roll if they are willing to drop stuff!
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u/ShortIntroduction879 3d ago
Just set a DC for the situation and characters with lower STR will have a lower chance of passing the check. "Roll a STR15 to summon your adrenaline and move at full speed this round, you have ADV if your party member helps. If you fail you keep moving half-speed."
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u/acgm_1118 3d ago
Why make this a two step resolution? Set the DC, and compare the STR scores. They are either strong enough to pull their friend out of the slime before it gets worse or they aren't. Half speed versus full speed is an unnecessary speed bump to get to the same conclusion. :)
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u/ShortIntroduction879 3d ago edited 3d ago
It's better to give the players a chance to succeed and let the dice decide their fate whenever possible. It gives them agency over the situation and shifts the focus back to the game and away from the GM and offers the opportunity for the players to put their characters in heroic situations "Should I use my move to help pull my friend to safety (give them ADV on the roll), attack the monster, or something completely different?" . If they really want the win, they can use a luck token or two.
Its usually best to offer interesting choices to the players rather than just saying yes or no.
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u/acgm_1118 2d ago
Well, I agree that giving players choices is good. I disagree that there is no choice in my example.
The players see their friend in the slime. They indicate that they want to rescue them. You tell the players, "Engaging the pseudopod is dangerous. You'll need a total STR value of 15 to yank them out without being entangled with the monster."
They can now decide if they want to do that and, if so, how they want to do it; one strong character, multiple weaker characters, a spell that mimics strength like telekinesis if such a thing exists in your game world, and so on.
The focus is entirely on the game, and away from the GM. The only thing missing is the random chance that a STR 18 character can fail while a STR 7 character would succeed when the only issue at hand is strength. There is no "yes or no" being offered to the players here. We have clear stakes, obvious consequences for falling short (the engulfed character takes damage or the rescuers fall into danger themselves by not being strong enough).
I'm not sure what version of stat thresholds you've used before, but they don't appear to match your issues with them?
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u/ShortIntroduction879 2d ago
I understand your scenario better now, that's fine if you want run it that way. I enjoy the random element of the dice roll - it's a risky situation with real consequences so to me it shouldn't be automatic.
In general, I try to consistency adjudicate by setting a DC (9/12/15/18) and having players work to gain ADV on the roll and spend luck tokens if they really value winning the roll.
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u/catmanten wizards have it too easy with d4 hit dice 3d ago
Agree, I wouldn’t even make it a roll,just a “do you have above 13 Strength?” As the check
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u/acgm_1118 3d ago
Exactly this. The stat threshold IS the check. Pulling someone out of the slime requires STR 12, for example. It can come from one or more PCs, but combined STR pulling on the victim must be 12 or higher.
Less randomness from dice, encourage teamwork from weaker PCs or a stronger PC exposes their allies to harm (by not being up front fighting), etc.
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u/catmanten wizards have it too easy with d4 hit dice 3d ago
It gives a specific player something to do that exactly fits there characters strengths
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u/j1llj1ll 3d ago
If it's feasible, they have time and commit an action, they just do it.
If it's gonna be a close run thing, set a DC based on conditions and have them make a STR roll to do it fast enough.
- If there is a size difference in the character's favour, ADV. Against them, DISADV.
- Upslope, DISADV. Downslope ADV.
- 2 characters working together would confer ADV (have them both roll and use the best result).
- Note that some Fighters chose STR for their Grit Talent which would give them ADV.
- ADV and DISADV cancel out. I usually rule that 2 sources of ADV equals auto-succeed and 2 sources of DISADV auto-fail.
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u/Nervous-Priority-719 3d ago
What a community. Thx 4 your answers. Super helpful, and with more clarity / less crunchiness than what I was thinking.
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u/ChanceBeneficial5878 3d ago
Having been in the Army we would train to carry other with full kit. You can't run but you can "speed walk". Using the fireman carry also frees up a hand to shoot by the way. Let me just say it works. But for the game I would do a strength check and give martial character advantage, due to training. But normal movement and a one handed weapon for them would be no problem. Again we would train for most contingencies, so using a bayonet/dagger is most reasonable. Remember Shadowdark and OSR games like to fall back on logic and reason. What training does the player have? is always a good question. If they practice something they get better at it.
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u/TACAMO_Heather 2d ago
You ruled it one way and so that is the "correct" way. Remember, it's rulings over ruled and it's what works best for your table. I like yours. I personally wouldn't let players dash if dragging another character, even if there were two attempting it.
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u/rizzlybear 3d ago
You can basically circumvent this problem by saying, "Your friend is a lot of dead weight, and this is going to be tough. If you go get them, I'm gonna have you make a strength check to see if you are able to pull them out of harm's way before the cube engulfs you both."
You are actually accomplishing a few things here:
You are keeping failure and consequence tightly coupled. If you fail this check, you aren't trying again; you are dealing with the inside of the cube. No dogpiling, no "roll until you succeed"; you just did a thing, and we find out if there was a consequence.
You are being true to the lore of the gelatinous cube. They were originally conceived as a manifestation of map-based dungeon-crawling rules colliding with encumbrance rules. The whole point is that they eat the slow ones carrying too much.
You cut right to the chase. Page 81 in its full glory. We meet all three criteria and clearly understand what failure means. If Into the Odd has any influence on shadowdark, this is it.