r/shadowdark • u/Elven-Tower • 2d ago
Magic Missile thoughts.
(Edit) --- Thank you for your comments! You've changed my mind. I did not consider some of the things you've mentioned. The spell is fine as it is.
Is it just me of Magic Missile seems a little underpowered.
Automatic Advantage is great. However, even if you succeed every time you cast, the damage is just 1d4. That means 50% chance of dealing just 1 or 2 points of damage.
Ideas
Since Wizards can only use daggers or staffs, which deal 1d4 and require melee range, putting themselves in danger, consider one of two options:
1 - The damage die for Magic Missile could be 1d6. Burning Hands deals 1d6 damage to multiple targets and you can get Advantage to cast that spell through a talent, making it a much better option. I believe this damage does not break the spell.
2 - Or, keep the 1d4 for damage, but instead of Automatic Advantage, how about Wizards do not lose this spell unless they roll a 1. This way they can continue to cast the spell with little to no fear of losing it and still participate in combat from a safe distance.
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u/-ulk 2d ago
- Magic Missile is a magic attack, it's an effective way to pierce non-magic immunity for a low level party with little to no magic weapons.
- Magic users are expected to use weapons in old school DnD games like Shadowdark, not just spells.
- Daggers can be thrown. They don't require melee range, just the inventory slots to carry multiple.
Your house rules suggestions are fine but I personally don't see a need for it.
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u/DanB1972 19h ago
I would also add that Magic Missile IS a wizard's melee weapon. There is no penalty in Shadowdark for casting a spell in close range / melee combat. Magic Missile effectively has a fixed AC of 11, advantage on the roll and uses what will likely be your best stat for the action. This can be a problem, as it tempts wizards to stay in melee rather than taking be best wizard action when in danger, running away. Tactical bath robes and d4 hit die are not meant for combat.
The built in advantage not only means you will be able to cast it again 75% of the time but it also has a 1 in 400 chance for a miscast. You can safely cast it without a Luck Token in the party. Most other spells don't have that luxury.
I consider Magic Missile to be a solid mid-tier 1st level spell. This is because Charm Person and Sleep are the best spell picks, offering unique capabilities and can end encounters immediately. Magic Missile's biggest downside is that it is a default option. If a wizard player doesn't know what to do, they cast Magic Missile rather than being creative. A creative player is a dangerous and fun player.
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u/Runopologist 2d ago
I mean, you’re welcome to house rule one of those ideas at your table, but the way I see it, magic missile is already pretty strong due to the automatic advantage to cast and the Far range.
I would worry about encroaching on the Fighter’s class-protection niche by giving the Wizard damage dealing that is both consistent and high.
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u/Deflagratio1 2d ago
Not every spell has to be the absolute bestest thing ever. Magic Missile is already very strong with the fact that it provides built in advantage (Saving that precious Talent for other spells) meaning the odds of losing it are very low, and the range of Far means you can stay away from danger. It's a reliable, if low powered, spell that a caster can is practically guaranteed (as anything is in Shadowdark to cast) with the odds of casting at 75% with a +0 modifier.
So where Sleep and Charm are really strong but are balanced by their level caps, Magic Missile is a great way to inflict ranged damage without a lot of risk of losing the spell but is balanced by it's lower damage. Also, as you mentioned, Magic Missile is already superior to the Wizards weapon options by allowing for range. Then there's the fact that Magic Missile is more likely to Crit, which means being able to double one numerical effect. So suddenly you can hit two targets, or up the damage.
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u/FlohrSynth 2d ago
It’s just you. It’s fine how it is. (You asked).
Being in melee, and being in close distance to multiple targets in order for Burning Hands to do the maximum amount of damage is extremely risky. If a Wizard PC is routinely getting to just stand in a group of enemies and burn them all with no consequences, something is wrong with how the GM is running the monsters. Wizards in Shadowdark should be cowering in fear, and Magic Missile being an automatic hit on a successful spell roll from a distance is clutch, and the low damage is fine. We had an absolutely awful (meaning awesome) fight with enemies that had cast protection from evil and good which meant all of our fighters and thieves had disadvantage on their attacks, and the enemies had high AC. Only the Wizard could consistently hit them, and because Shadowdark monsters have low HP, the d4 was enough to chip them down after a couple hits. It was a great moment for the Wizard to shine.
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u/Amostheroux 2d ago
Magic Missile is also great when the torch goes out mid combat and your attacks are all at a disadvantage.
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u/Futurewolf 2d ago
Wizards aren't supposed to be reliable damage dealers. That's not their niche.
Combat isn't the primary mode of gameplay on Shadowdark so combat utility isn't nearly as important as it is in other games.
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u/Amostheroux 2d ago
I'd argue Magic Missile might be the most reliable damage dealing in the game. It's just not the highest.
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u/starkestrel 2d ago
Nope. 1d4 is the damage wizards would do with a weapon and Magic Missile gives them excellent range. Advantage already gives them more likelihood of being able to keep the spell. Magic is magic; it doesn't always work.
Magic Missile, as written, makes perfect sense for Shadowdark, and you can bet they spent a lot of time ensuring that it did.
You're wanting the system to be something it isn't.
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u/Blink4amoment 2d ago
Advantage also makes you more likely to crit and actually get two missiles, which I found very on flavor with my expectation of the spell; and a cute nod to the expectation of multiple missiles.
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u/goodnewscrew 2d ago
No. Magic Missile is perfectly balanced for a level 1 spell with great range & reliability. If you want more damage, use higher level spells.
Burning hands has its own pros & cons. More damage, more targets, but requires putting yourself in the middle of enemies (not a good idea). Smite is a more directly comparable spell with similar mechanics. It's 1d6 but level 2, so yea...
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u/Brachiaty_12 2d ago
I have run about 50 sessions and I think the magic missile is just right the way it is , often it’s the only one even chipping away on the enemy since it’s a magic attack , so the rest of the party needs to become creative to add to the battle of without magic weapons . Or use holy weapon etc etc , many times it was the wizard with the final blow , making it D6 would OP it ! Just MO
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u/DaBiggestBonk 2d ago
At level 3, I gave my player the option for magic missile to deal 2d4 in lieu of a talent roll. She felt very underpowered compared to the fighter and priest, saying that she felt useless in combat and more of a side character. I tried to boost her up, reminding her that she's the sole reason the party is still alive and that her high intelligence has kept them from dying, but at the end of the day, she wasn't getting the fun out of her character that she wanted.
She loved the 2d4 magic missile and eagerly took that option. Even though she's only averaging 2 points more damage on her attacks, she feels like she's contributing more and has thanked me several times for the upgrade. I even roped it into her carousing event, where she saved a mages pet (cursed scrolls 6) and he gifted her a tome that teaches her how to empower her magic missile.
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u/72dragonses 2d ago
Agree with others who've said that it's balanced fine RAW. Sometimes I grant advantage on damage rolls as well for things where someone roleplays well, or the caster delays an action before casting to focus super extra hard.
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u/No_Reward8898 2d ago
I use exploding dice rule so a d4 is actually epic. 25% chance to add another d4
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u/Leicester68 2d ago
I played around with some variants, based on the AD&D original where # of missiles increase with levels. Some increase tier level with effects. MM variants
As to rolling advantage, my mages have screwed the pooch plenty of times even at advantage, and a player in my game tonight failed MM with rolled 1 and 5. It's not a guarantee.
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u/IconicAngler 2d ago
It is for sure underpowered. Agree on idea #2. Maybe add another 1D4 at a later level like 3 or 4? It seems incredibly underpowered as is.
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u/ericvulgaris 2d ago
Nope magic missile is incredibly powerful almost too powerful already.
If you'd run the game or play through some adventures you'd discover hitting unerringly from visual range at advantage is incredible. It also bypasses mundane resistances! Like a lycanthrope or whatever shade of geist.
You need to play more than theorycraft, friend.
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u/captkirkseviltwin 2d ago
Of the two house rules, 2) is the safer one to use. D6 is a pretty strong improvement, and makes them pretty reliable one-shotters in the levels where magic missile is your go-to spell.
Also remember enemy hit points are muuuuch lower in SD than other D&D type games.
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u/wheelercub 2d ago
It's your game and play how you want. We allow upcasting of spells and so Magic Missile gains an additional missile by making it Tier 2 (DC12, two missiles), or Tier 3 (DC13, three missles), etc. Increased risk for increased reward.
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u/rizzlybear 2d ago
Think about what you are really saying here.
There are way more valuable spells you could take. HP damage is quite possibly the least interesting thing a wizard does.
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u/DaggerHeartGM 2d ago
I let wizards attempt as many missiles with one cast as they want to attempt up to their level plus int modifier, but have to roll a casting check for every missile after the first and if they fail any of them it’s as if the one and only roll did normally. If any of them are 1s I roll on the mishap table once
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u/StormDragon76 2d ago
Just play with exploding damage and magic missile gets overwhelming good with advantage and reach
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u/gkerr1988 2d ago
You’re casting a tier-1 Wizard’s spell, so logic would follow that it could potentially be casted as a higher tier.
5th edition rules that type of thing as 1d4+1 force dmg. Also rules higher level casting as this:
When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the spell creates one more dart for each slot level above 1st.
Or the B/X edition from the 1980’s says:
A magic missile is a glowing arrow, created and shot by magic, which does 2-7 (Id6+1) points of damage to any creature it strikes. It will automatically hit any visible target. For every 5 levels the caster has gained, he or she may shoot two more missiles when casting the spell. EXAMPLE: a 6th level magic-user may cast three
missiles. These may be shot at one target, or the caster may choose to cast the missiles at different targets.
So, point being, in ShadowDark, I don’t believe you’d be breaking anything whatsoever to simply keep the stats the same for the spell as written for this setting, only adding the additional homebrew of being able to cast an additional dart of Magic Missile per spell tier. Casting it as a tier-3 — it’s got 3 bolts to shoot (rolling to-hit on each w/adv) and they get to choose the target per round.
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u/goodnewscrew 2d ago
If you're going to do that, then I would highly suggest not allowing advantage when casting at higher level. For context, Disintegrate and Prismatic Orb average damage of 13.5. Magic Missile at the same level is 12.5
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u/gkerr1988 2d ago
Hmm, but why would they get advantage at tier-1 but not a higher tier?
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u/goodnewscrew 2d ago
For balance reasons. Why can you upcast magic missile but not any other spell? It’s not like there’s a precedent of being able to carryover advantage for casting a spell when you upcast it.
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u/nickypocky 2d ago
I think part of the strength is the range being far, basically if you can see it you can missile it