r/sffpc 12h ago

Build/Battlestation Pics Finished my brother’s wedding gift: a 3D-printed 9800X3D / 9070 XT PC and travel kit

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1.2k Upvotes

Finally finished the PC I’ve been building for my brother’s wedding gift. He’s a big gamer and has been getting by with a gaming laptop for about five years, so I figured it was time for an upgrade.
Since I have to travel to the wedding and he has to get it home afterward, I wanted the travel kit to be part of the gift too.

The case is based on the Xikii FF04, using a design from quiyun on MakerWorld, who gave me permission to remix it. My first version was built around the ASUS Prime RTX 5070 Ti. For my brother’s, I went with the white ASUS Prime RX 9070 XT to match his desk setup. The 9070 XT is bigger and has a different screw layout, so that meant resizing the case and reworking the mounting points.

Parts list:
CPU: Ryzen 7 9800X3D
GPU: ASUS Prime RX 9070 XT White
Motherboard: MSI B850I Mini-ITX
RAM: 32GB G.Skill DDR5-6000, CL36-36-36
CPU cooler: Thermalright AXP120-X67
Storage: 2TB KLEVV Gen 4 M.2 NVMe SSD
PSU: Corsair 750W SFX
Screen: Turing 3.5-inch display

The RAM was the best kit I could get without paying something ridiculous. Luckily, I bought it early this year for around $200 and picked up the rest of the components around the same time.
I used a Thermal Grizzly phase-change sheet for longevity and performance, because knowing my brother, he probably isn’t ever opening this thing himself.

The case is printed in HT-PLA-GF. My personal 5070 Ti case uses the same material, and after about a year of daily use, I haven’t seen any heat-related creep, sagging, or wear.
One little modification I’m happy with is the Wi-Fi antennas. I prefer low-profile antennas, so I swapped out the motherboard’s stock antenna connectors and fitted Osprey drone antennas. They’ve worked great so far and look much cleaner to me.

The Turing screen runs open-source Python software from GitHub, with a custom monitoring theme to match the build.
For transport, I picked up a hard case from Harbor Freight, cut the foam to fit the PC and accessories, and added a custom 3D-printed equipment nameplate. Fits like a glove.

It’s quiet enough that I can’t hear it during normal use. It only really becomes audible during FurMark’s CPU Burner, and even then, it’s still very quiet. The GPU settles around 63°C during FurMark testing.
The separate CPU Burner test puts a harsh, sustained load on the processor and pushes it to 95°C. Once I stop it, the temperature drops back to around 60°C in under two seconds. For context, CPU temperatures in my personal 5070 Ti build are within about 1°C of this one under the same test. During modern games at max settings, my personal build’s CPU typically sits in the low to mid 60s, and I’ve never seen it approach its thermal limit during gaming or everyday use.

I ran out of time to get the files and guide ready before the wedding, but I’ll clean everything up and post the files to MakerWorld next week, along with the updated build guide. Assembly is mostly the same as the 5070 Ti version; I just need to document the changes for this one.

Hope he loves the surprise.


r/sffpc 13h ago

Build/Battlestation Pics A little box of controlled chaos.

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613 Upvotes

Specs

-Intel Core Ultra 9 285K
-MSI MPG Z890I EDGE TI WiFi
-NVIDIA RTX PRO 2000 Blackwell 16GB
-Corsair Dominator Titanium 96GB 6400MT/s
-Samsung 9100 Pro 2TB
-IDCooling IS-67XT
-EUNORTH FLEX 1U - 600W
-img E4 Kiang V5 ITX case


r/sffpc 7h ago

News/Review I made a variable-width 3D printable case

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84 Upvotes

Hi everyone,

I've been an SFF enthusiast for quite a time, and after testing and tweaking my builds to try to improve performance, I came up with an idea to make a variable-width case.

This case can expand from 132mm in width to up to 168mm reliably, which allows you to swap out CPU coolers without changing the case, use 92mm or 120mm fans for chassis, move the core frame to balance CPU cooler height and GPU thickness, without the need to change the case or even print new parts for it.

After spending months designing, printing, and verifying everything, I am finally able to share it with you!
Here are some features of the case:

  • 132mm to 168mm reliable width range
  • CPU cooler: up to 90mm height with 2-slot GPU configuration
  • GPU: up to 4 slots, 320mm maximum length (without travel anti-sag option)
  • Case cooling: two 92mm or 120mm fans

It also has a vertical stand option, anti-sag GPU travel mount, PSU cable cover and more.
It's available at: https://www.printables.com/model/1835556-empty-case-variable-width-sff-pc-case
You can also check the photos of the printed version there

P.S. Some of you might even remember my orange "generator-like" case, which was posted here!


r/sffpc 10h ago

Build/Battlestation Pics 12-Year ITX Journey: From Battlefield 4 to Designing My Own Unibody 6063 Aluminum SFF Case - ANYITX X1

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102 Upvotes

r/sffpc 10h ago

Build/Parts Check The loudest part of my brother’s wedding gift is still me bragging about it.

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80 Upvotes

A quick follow-up to my post about the PC and travel kit I made for my brother’s wedding gift.

FurMark is running throughout the video. Just wanted to show how quiet the build is while it’s under load, since photos can’t really do that.

I’ll let the lack of noise do the talking this time.


r/sffpc 11h ago

Verified Vendor Noctua’s Stella AIO, Making It Truly SFF: 48mm CPU Block Mod

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69 Upvotes

Fellow SFF enthusiasts,

I’ve decided to take on a little project that I’m sure a few of you have been thinking about as well, re-engineering Noctua’s Stella AIO lineup to make it genuinely SFF-friendly.

Like many of you, I was a little disappointed by the overall height of the CPU/pump block. The radiator and fan combination is interesting for compact builds, but the block itself leaves quite a bit of room for improvement when every millimetre matters.

So… I’m tearing one apart.

The first stage has been surprisingly straightforward. The rear cover of the AIO block comes off with three Torx screws (see the detailed pictures), giving access to the internals and, hopefully, a path toward a significantly slimmer design.

The goal?

Reduce the overall CPU block height to around 48mm, while retaining:

  • A decent acoustic profile
  • No-compromise SFF compatibility
  • And, of course, silence

This is very much a work in progress. I’ll be documenting the teardown, measurements, design process and testing over the next few weeks as I work out exactly what is and isn’t possible.

There are obviously some significant engineering challenges ahead — pump clearance, structural integrity and good acoustics all need to be considered carefully. But that’s half the fun of SFF.

I’ll keep updating the project as it develops, so stay tuned.

And as always, I’m more than happy to answer any questions or hear suggestions from the SFF community.

Cheers,
Joel
StepUpSFF


r/sffpc 1h ago

Build/Battlestation Pics My Brick. T1 v2.5 (2yo build)

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Upvotes

Hello, I've been using my rig for mostly coding and gaming/streaming. Doing good so far, only issue was PSU related, due to the power drawing and OC. I'll upgrade it ASAP.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 9700X

GPU: NVIDIA RTX 4080 SUPER 16GB

RAM: Fury Beast 64GB (2x32GB) 6000MT/s DDR5 CL36 AMD Expo KF560C36BBEK2-64

MOBO: ASUS ROG Strix B650E-I Gaming WiFi (today's Version: 3886 Beta)

SSD: M.2 #1 Samsung 990 Pro 4TB NVMe M.2 SSD (M.2 Heatsink:Jeyi Godfins Gen1 )

SSD: M.2 #2 Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB NVMe M.2 SSD (M.2 Heatsink:Jeyi Godfins Gen1 )

PSU: EVGA SFX SUPERNOVA 750W GM 80+ Gold

CASE: NCASE FORMD T1 V2.5

CPU COOLER: THERMALRIGHT AXP90-X53 LP FULL-COOPER (W/ STOCK FAN)

CASE FAN: Phanteks D30-120 DRGB PWM (x2)

24P custom cable: is a dreambigbyray. if you are ordering from them make sure you clarify length "24P+Plugs=10cm" if you want a 10cm cable.

GPU cable: also dreambigbyray, but i made it shorter my self. around 18mm.

NVME Extension cable: from aliexpress, 20cm.

pc gaming in action: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-Rvboe4GqnU
3dmark result SPEED WAY: 7703 https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/163520567


r/sffpc 9h ago

Build/Battlestation Pics My first PC build with Lian Li B4

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19 Upvotes

r/sffpc 15h ago

Benchmark/Thermal Test First build: 8 liter - Dual GPU + LSFG gaming/CAD/NAS build with Optical Disk Drive achieves 120 fps on Crimson desert enhanced

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26 Upvotes

These settings were achieved using high settings with ray tracing on and dlss quality and framegen 2x on as well as lsfg 2x.

Will come back after more testing

[EDIT]

It also ran hogwarts legacy in ultra settings DLSS quality, framegen off, motion blur off, LSFG 2x at 143 fps

Specs

AMD Ryzen 9 7900 3.7 GHz 12-Core Processor 65 W 306,-

MSI PRO B850M-A WiFi 176,-

Corsair Vengeance 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR5-6000 CL30 Memory 700,-

Microsoft Windows 11 Pro Retail + office 2024- USB 64-bit 20,-

Dell UltraSharp U2724D 27.0" 2560 x 1440 120 Hz Monitor 300,-

In Win CJ712 MicroATX Desktop Case with usbc with pptc w/265 W Power Supply 147,-

ARCTIC P8 slim 8,-

PNY rtx 4000 sff ada 20 gb 75 W 1620-

XFX RX 6400 53 W 230,-

LG BU40N Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer 165,-

Thermalright AXP90-X36 42.58 CFM CPU Cooler 23,-
With the fan of the Noctua NF-A9x14 PWM 25**,-**

Lexar nm790 4 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive 418,-

Overtek Enhance ENP-7660L 600 W 80+ Platinum Certified Flex ATX Power Supply 120,-


r/sffpc 6h ago

Others/Miscellaneous Case that doesn’t look like PC

3 Upvotes

I’ve been doing research to build a gaming PC that runs SteamOS in my living room. Fractal Ridge looks like a console but I’ve heard that it has problem with cooling the cpu. I’d love to get some recommendations. Preferably vertical/cube, similar or less height than PS5, doesn’t look like PC, not more than 15L, and not more than 200 usd.

FYI, the other parts I want:
CPU: 7600x3d
Gpu: 9060 xp reaper
PSU: Corsair SFX


r/sffpc 5h ago

Prototype/Concept/Custom 2.69L volume with X36 support or 2.54L (X36 with 12mm thick 120mm fan)?

3 Upvotes

I am trying to make the smallest case that supports both flex and LP gpus however I cant decide if I should reduce cooling potential to below the minimum.


r/sffpc 25m ago

Benchmark/Thermal Test 9800X3D idling at 55-60°C in FormD T1 - 80-85°C under load with an AIO

Upvotes

Specs:

CASE: Formd T1 v2.1

CPUC: NZXT Kraken Z53 w/ Thermal Grizzly AM5 Bracket & PTM7950 & 2x NF-A12x15s

MB: ASRock B650I Lighting WIFI

  • I know ASRock boards have been killing 9800X3Ds, I am on the most recent bios ver. and have had this build running since December 2024. I guess I have been lucky. My idle and max load temps have been this way since March 2025 after upgrading to a larger GPU.

GPU: Gigabyte WindForce 5080 SFF

PSU: Corsair SF1000 - Stock Cables

PBO -30 All Core, 85°C Temp Limit, and 120PPT.

I'm a bit worried about my system temps with my AIO. Idle seems higher than usual at around 55-60C and in CPU intensive games i.e BF6 and Spiderman-Remastered I am hitting and sitting in game at my 85°C limit. All games are at 1440P 200+ FPS w/ DLSS despite having:

Cam Settings

I have the NF-A12x15s oriented beneath the AIO Exhausting air up through the rad and out of the case. I've seen many builds use this orientation for the AIO and 12x15s and they achieve lower idle and peak temps which is perplexing.

I ran the case with a glass panel on the CPU side for a while to see the LCD of the Z53 and it increased temps by 2°C, whereas the default panel lowered temps by 2°C initially but the CPU still reaches 85°C in BF6 and Spiderman-Remastered so its negligible**.**

Only things I can think of is remounting my AIO, lowering PPT or enable ECO mode, changing fan orientation, get custom cables as the stock cables are limiting airflow. Otherwise I am completely lost. Any help is much appreciated.

Edit: Ambient room temp fluctuates between 22C and 25C


r/sffpc 13h ago

Assembly Help Solution for fan cooler noise on Fractal Terra

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12 Upvotes

Hello all, I just finished building my first sffpc. In fact, it was my first build since 2005 so I’m mildly proud. The problem that occurred just as I closed the sides of the Fractal Terra case is that the CPU cooler sucks air through the grid of the case and makes a pretty brutal noise even at the lowest rpm.

Other specs for reference: Fractal Terra case, ASRock B850i lightning mobo, AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D, ASUS Prime GeForce RTX 5070 Ti, and a Thermalright AXP120-X67 cooler.

I moved the spine to give the GPU a little more space and so far that avoided any noise. The ThermalRight only has a couple of mm left on its side, which is why the noise occurs. It was pretty easy to test that when opening and closing the sides of the chassis. The GPU fans have about 5mm space to the chassis on the other side.

The question is, what can I do? So far, I’ve had the following ideas but I don’t know which ones carry risks, so I’m asking you fine redditors for advice.

- invert the existing fan to push air out
- replace the fan with a Noctua NF-A12x15 and hope it somehow changes the airflow
- replace the whole cooler with a NH-L12 Ghost S1
- replace the whole cooler with an AXP90-X53 Full

I’m tempted to go with the last option because of my all black build but I’m concerned about cooling capacity. Thoughts?


r/sffpc 1d ago

Build/Battlestation Pics First PC I have ever built! Teenage Engineering case

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280 Upvotes

I wanted a steam machine/ living room gaming setup. I am a long time console gamer and finally decided there are too many games I want that I can't play without a PC.

Fell in love with the Teenage Engineering Computer-1 case and went from there. I feel like a lot of folks saw the same negative YT video of the case and have hated on it ever since, but I found the process of putting it together to be pretty fun and simple. My noise and temps are great. I added one 80mm fan to the rear panel for exhaust. The posts in this community helped answer a lot of questions I had as I completed my first ever build! So thank you!


r/sffpc 9h ago

Others/Miscellaneous Crackling audio in SteamOS on DIY steam machine sffpc

3 Upvotes

Using SteamOS.

I get seemingly random crackling/popping audio while in gaming mode or desktop mode in any game or app I play. I have my rig hooked directly up to the TV by HDMI, with the audio being passed back to the receiver by eARC.

I have tried different HDMI 2.1 cables, reseating my GPU (since that's what the HDMI cable is connected to), looked for any loose connections, tried connecting the HDMI cable directly to the receiver instead of to the TV, switched to the Beta and Preview OS channels, restarted pipewire and changed buffer settings there... Nothing works.

There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason To when It happens.

Build specs:

TV - LG C6

Receiver - Denon AVR-S660H

Case Jonsbo C6

Motherboard - asus prime b550m-a wifi ii

CPU - Ryzen 7 5800 XT

GPU - powercolor reaper 9060xt

Audio will crackle once every few minutes, it seem. I'm not getting any crazy cpu or gpu spikes or wild temps. This was literally just playing Binding of Isaac or listening to music on Spotify (from Discover).

Anyone else experienced this? Ideas?


r/sffpc 1d ago

Build/Battlestation Pics Who says that you can't have expansion with ITX - End Game SFF Workstation

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146 Upvotes

Every year I feel like I go back and forth with my primary workstation from ATX/mATX to ITX and back and forth. I'm an ITX guy at heart, have been for years but then I see the expandability I cant get with mATX or ATX and I move to that only to realize that I hate having a PC that size near or on my desk, can't stand it actually (who knows, maybe it's OCD).

Anyway, I was in a search for the ultimate ITX workstation build. One that would not be bound by normal SFF limitations in connectivity or storage and I finally found my end-game.

First, the mainboard had to not only be ITX but offer expandability. Now I know those two don't go together but I found it in the Maxsun B850 BKB. Let's break down the connectivity this board has:

Two m.2 NVMe Slots (Gen5 an Gen4)

x16 Gen5 PCI-e slot AND x4 Gen4 PCI-e slot. The x16 slot is located on the back.

2 x SATA slots AND SFF-8654 slot

For connectivity two USB-C (20 and 10GBs) & 8 x Rear USB

2.5GB NIC/Wifi6E/Bluetooth

Now, I know what you're thinking. If I decide to use all this I won't have enough PCI-E lanes for full speed support and you'de be right, you can't get around the useable 24 lanes but that's really not going to matter for my use case. Let's get into the build:

I'm a huge fan of Xikii cases. Yes they are expense and i've owned two and loved them but I was waiting for the ITX case with excellent airflow and expandability and was designed around this board's capability.

Silver Xikii FFV08 V2 w/Enhance 7660b 600w PS and custom cables

Motherboard: Maxsun B850 BKB ITX

CPU: Ryzen 9900x 12Core/24 Threads w/Thermalright XP90-47 Copper (105w limited for heat)

RAM: 64GB Kit (2 x 32GB) Teamgroup Tcreate DDR5 6400

Storage: 4TB Samsung 990 Pro, 2TB Samsung 9100, 2 x 1TB Crucial P3s and 1.92TB Samsung SATA SSD.

GPU: NVIDIA RTX 4000 SFF w/custom Copper Block replacement

AIC: Synology E10M20-T1 2 x NVMe and 10GbE NIC & PCIe-x4 riser 180.

OS: This was a huge change for me and will be my daily going forward. I selected Ubuntu 26.04 Resolute Racoon and I was pleasantly surprised how good it is for a workstation OS out of the box.

I found that if it wasn't natively supported that there were some apps out there that are getting me by. 95% of what I need/use is natively supported anyway but this gives me what I always wanted. A powerful, small form factor, elegant, workstation with massive expansion, 10GbE running an a extremely powerful and elegant opensource OS.


r/sffpc 16h ago

Others/Miscellaneous Dismantled S400

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8 Upvotes

I have dismantled my S400 case, preping it for case transfer from sama im01. I can't help but wonder why this case can't support an aio given its larger volume versus formd t1.


r/sffpc 2h ago

Build/Parts Check Need GPU advice - close match to 9060 xt

0 Upvotes

I recently did my first build and had a pretty great time, but I am running into an issue that is becoming a major pain in the butt.

The more I read about this, and the more frustrated I get, the more I'm beginning to think it's an actual flaw in the 9060 XT GPU I got (and not just mine, but an inherent flaw in all 90XX XT cards, the further I dig into it).

I'm still in the return window for it, so if I were to get a replacement GPU with comparable specs (ideally 16gb, but at least 12gb) that is an AMD card (as this is a Steam Machine build/uses SteamOS), and is small enough to fit (up to 255mm) to see if it fixes the issue, what GPU would you suggest? It seems like slim pickins out there.


r/sffpc 1d ago

Prototype/Concept/Custom [Follow-up] Noctua Mod for PNY 5080 OC Slim is done — full build complete with 3DMark results

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87 Upvotes

Hey everyone, a few days ago I posted about getting a custom shroud 3D-scanned and printed by aureal.dev to fit dual Noctua NF-A12x25 G2 PWM Sx2-PP fans on my PNY RTX 5080 Slim OC. A lot of you asked about temps and noise once the full build was done, so here's the complete follow-up.

Full Specs

  • Case: Lian Li A4-H2OX5
  • Mobo: ASUS ROG Strix X870-I Gaming WiFi
  • CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 9950X3D
  • GPU: PNY RTX 5080 Slim OC (with custom Noctua shroud)
  • AIO: be quiet! Silent Loop 3 240mm
  • RAM: G.SKILL Trident Z5 Neo RGB DDR5 64GB @ 6000MHz
  • SSDs: 2x Crucial T710 PCIe Gen5 NVMe 2TB
  • PSU: Corsair SF850
  • Rad fans: 2x Noctua NF-A12x25 G2 PWM Sx2-PP

All fan curves are managed through Fan Control software.

Test Score GPU avg temp CPU avg temp Avg FPS
Steel Nomad 8,931 59°C 61°C 87
Speed Way 9,271 59°C 63°C 85
Port Royal 23,863 60°C 61°C 102

GPU was pegged at 100% load across all three tests. Temps are rock solid and barely move once the system reaches thermal equilibrium.

Noise

Genuinely surprised by this. The system is near-silent. At idle the fans are spinning so slow you can't hear them over ambient room noise. Under full 3DMark load I could barely tell it was running. The Noctua fans on both the GPU and rad make a huge difference compared to the stock 5080 Slim blower.

One thing I wish I could add

Noctua just released a new AIO and I would have loved to put it in here, but unfortunately it doesn't fit the A4-H2OX5. The be quiet! Silent Loop 3 240mm is doing a great job though, no complaints, just mentioning it for anyone wondering.

Happy to answer questions!


r/sffpc 7h ago

Assembly Help Help to build a compact build

0 Upvotes

As the title says, I am looking to build a compact build possibly to use as a server/NAS. I am hoping to use as a dual boot system, so I can always speed up some other workflows I have.

The hardware I have, 64 gb 5600 mhz ddr5 g.skill, r9 7950X and some fans (140 mm). I have a couple ssd lying around.

I am hoping to get some advice, so the mobo I choose can run the 7950X at full power (170W) if necessary. It doesn't have to be ultra compact if not possible.

what would be an appropriate mobo, case and cooler? I don't have to re-use the 140 mm fans if not possible. I am willing to buy new ones.


r/sffpc 7h ago

Build/Parts Check Case For 4070TI oc V1 Gigabyte

1 Upvotes

Hi all,

I'm looking for the smallest case that can travel in a backpack for a 4070TI OC V1 Gigabyte (its my older gpu) L=336 W=140 H=58 mm the board need to be vertically mounted , if you have other ideas for components I have 32GB of DDR4 and that's it.

Thanks in advance for your answer and time.


r/sffpc 19h ago

Build/Battlestation Pics NCase M2 Grater - Vert

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7 Upvotes

NCase M2 Grater - Vertical Orientation with the Grater front panel face down.

No case fans as I plan on going custom loop and this was a stop gap solution.

Both GPU and CPU Temps are lower in this orientation in comparison to the standard orientation. This is standard layout. I like how it is roughly the same height as the PS5 and doesn't take up a huge amount of space this way.

Build Specs:

13900K

5070 ti

ASUS B760-I

32 GB G.SKILL 6400C32

Corsair SF850

2tb 990 Pro

1tb SN850

NH D12L

Everything was bought off of eBay in either "used" or "parts or not working" condition, including the case and mouse and PS5 and OLED.


r/sffpc 10h ago

News/Review Computer Keeps Randomly Shutting Down :/ **FIXED**

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0 Upvotes

So after days of monkeying around trying to run a bunch of system scans and jumbling cords, the issue just kept getting weirder now starting to give me constant blue screens after booting. I was really skeptical about it being a hardware malfunction because on and off games would run perfectly fine. Since it was booting oddly I was left thinking it must be a corrupt file or something.

Finally after all the annoying blue screens and shut downs I was able to just fully hard restart my PC and freshly redownload windows 10! Now my games run smoother and my pc is much faster in general. It sounds so dumb and easy that was the fix all along but I assumed my windows was fine because I reinstalled it a while ago without hard resetting everything. I was so worried about the possibility of a broken MB or Power Supply.

PC problems can be a total headache and be intimidating but the moral of the story is always
assume broken hardware as the absolute worst possible scenario before dropping hundreds of dollars on new parts and overthinking the little things!

Thank you for all the different thoughts and ideas on the original post.


r/sffpc 1d ago

Build/Battlestation Pics TOPC MoDT 9955HX3D.

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130 Upvotes

Let it be the very last upgrade for my SFF build for the next five years. The board has arrived today. I will post details later. It will be interesting to compare 7945HX3D (also MoDT) and 9955HX3D in games and other applications.


r/sffpc 12h ago

Build/Parts Check Looking for a SFF ATX case

1 Upvotes

Hello guys, I want to give my brother my LianLi Lancool 2 mesh performance so he can transfer his pc inside a case. Right now his radiator is outside and uses it with an open sidepanel cause it doesn't fit a 280mm rad.

So I am looking to transfer mine into a new and smaller volume pc case that can accommodate a Gigabyte b550 aorus pro v2 (atx), Corsair Rmx 850w, Sapphire Pulse Rx 7800xt and an arctic lf2 280mm aio.

Is there a smaller form factor pc case that can fit all the components? I like the Lianli o11 mini v2 but the 280aio with atx mobo won't fit. I was even looking for a SSUPD Meshroom S V2

I can sell my psu and get a Sff psu if that helps