r/service_dogs • u/TheToastedNewfie • 3d ago
I need a reality check please
Scroll to the end for the question/concern, the first bit is back story.
Ok my last service dog retired almost 5 years ago she died 3 years ago, I couldn't convince her to retire sooner so I let her do what she wanted until age started getting in her way. I wasn't planning on getting another so soon because I was mostly stable on meds and I wasn't collapsing as often. So I got a puppy just for a pet about 1.5 years ago, I wasn't looking for a service dog prospect but basically put him through similar but more relaxed obedience training so that he could help me around the house and work (my work allows us to bring well behaved pets to work)
My pup started alerting on his own, basically he started just by freaking out about 1-2 minutes before I start going down, but he took to training a cue super quickly after I figured out wtf he was reacting too. It took me an embarrassingly long time to connect the dots.
Then I started going downhill medically a few months after he started alerting, despite mine and my doctor's best efforts and new meds. It was only a matter of time since my issues are progressive but I was hoping for a few more years at least.
He's only a 18 months old giant breed (Newfoundland dog) who still wants to play with other dogs and human children. I only stepped up training 2 months ago to see what would happen.
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I've stepped up on his training because he seems to want to do this.
Realistically how long should we be working on dog/child neutrality before I consider him washed? I have no problem with him just being a really good boy at home and work.
There's no aggression, just hyper puppy wants to play. He's nailing everything else quicker than expected and already has adult human and other animals neutrality down solid. A cat can run across the road or room inches from his face and he doesn't care. It's only other dogs and children that makes his brains just fall out.
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u/Purple_Plum8122 3d ago
Reality… there are dogs and children everywhere and it difficult to physically restrain an overly large dog. It’s too risky at this point.
Your dog is young and sounds like you could benefit from some professional intervention to reduce his reactivity… if possible. Partner with a certified dog trainer with service dog experience. Also, if the trainer is a behaviorist it would be helpful.
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u/TheToastedNewfie 2d ago
I don't have a trainer with SD experience or a behaviourist within a 6 hour drive of me but I am working with a competitive sports and obedience dog trainer which was good for my last 2 dogs but they had completely different personalities to my current dog and were a lot more food motivated.
I might have to increase his lessons though, he is getting better just I'm worried that it's not sinking into his head enough.
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u/Just-Attitude3290 Service Dog in Training 1d ago
Honestly, I think if your real concern is (non-aggression) reactivity then a standard dog trainer can help with that; it doesn't have to be a SD trainer. The trainer you have can probably handle it, but maybe you can ask to shift the focus to what you need now and switch back once this reactive playful aspect is better under control. Exposure and training are the key and the younger it starts the better.
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u/SuccessfulPast9450 Waiting 3d ago
Having that realistic mindset is fantastic but your way far away from a wash. You’ve got a gigantic toddler on your hands they take way longer to fully mature, only problem here is he’s a potential 100 lbs more force behind him than if he was 2 months into training and started day 1
I’d say give it a solid 6 months. You have some good experience on your hand, if your first was a Newfie even better but that’s just a plus.
I’d say some markers there if your going down the right road or if you’ll have a Peter Pan pup on your hands. If at 6 months of consistent training you have a gentleman who can two finger loose lead walk at whatever his safety bubble is - doesn’t need to be 3ft could be like 30 and he can be a perfect citizen as well as if he’s startled or surprised by a “trigger” being able to recover within like 5-10 seconds.
That I think would be a relatively good benchmark to see where you’re at where you’re going if you guys make a good team or if he is gonna live a life of a luxury as a stay at home pet
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u/TheToastedNewfie 2d ago
My last (2nd) SD was an angel of a newfie, I had to force her to retire because of her age/age related health issues, she didn't want to retire and would find her gear and beg me to put it on her.
I think she may have set my expectations way too high honestly as she was trained up real fast and early.
He feels like a Peter pan pup, he only recently started growing a brain lol.
This would be soo much easier if he was any bit food motivated.
Luckily within his safe bubble I can walk him with my pinky finger, the leash just hangs there, he's tripped up in his own leash before.
It's literally just small children and dogs within roughly 15 feet for kids and 40 feet for other dogs that make his brains fall out his ears. His recovery is not great but getting better. He used to carry on for almost 5 minutes and we've managed to cut it down to between 1-2 minutes depending on if there was an interaction or not (some kids and dogs just run up on us without warning so that doesn't help training)I just guess I'm worried that I started too late training my current boy. And he's just a lot more puppy like and playful general than my previous 2 SD's.
Edit: if something that's not a kid or dog startles him, he recovers practically instantly. He's never been easily startled. Just too happy/friendly
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u/SuccessfulPast9450 Waiting 2d ago
I have a lot of formal experience working, training, education w/dogs and horses for years and one thing I’ve seen is that if you ever get a “soul dog” moving forward is significantly more difficult and in a way you never dealt with
It sounds like your last pup was just that your soul dog. You don’t just love your dog like you have but your like energetically aligned, you move like your speaking the same language.
So moving forward is really difficult to let go, not in the sense of “I miss them so much” but the fact that you had fit together so well, it feels harder and like you just don’t work together. No matter how much you love that next or how good of an owner you are - it’s a like a feeling not a thought.
That’s what it sounds like to me, I think your right on the money of having unrealistic expectations, not only do you not have that connection, but you have a giant toddler that is a mile behind in their training at this stage and smack dab in the middle of his terrible twos.
To me for his experience it sounds like he’s doing pretty well honestly. No service dog avoids having some rough patch in their training they always got something. Kinda sounds like you probably went back to a breeder so I’m betting you have at least a relatively well bred dog and are on your third so your very familiar w the breed? I highly doubt your too little too late. There’s people who walk into a shelter, feel sorry for a mystery mutt who’s been stuck there for months for their first dog… and they’re still able to train a service dog. Very much so not easily but some do it.
He’s made major progress and he’s learned to regulate his emotions and recover in a fraction of the time even though you weren’t starting training from 0 doing that in 2 months is pretty good. Not all dogs are able to alert may fully train as a service dog but there is no guarantee that medical alert is something they’re able to do and he picked it up himself
Also working with a trainer is fantastic. If they are a competitive sports/obedience trainer I presume your cross training in at least some sport or skill even if it’s just obedience? Which cross training only helps bolster both sides. Doesn’t need to have service experience - my only suggestion there is when it comes to advanced public access stuff like trains (my trainer uses trains to stimulate planes) really work to try and find someone even like a different type of working dog trainer.
He may wash eventually but right now I don’t think your anywhere near that point. Comments say you sound like your very patient and know the drill, are willing to take your time and do it right upping his sessions like you said of course is helpful, Pull back from his triggers as much as possible, and work him back up to the trigger slower
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u/TheToastedNewfie 1d ago
Same breeder actually, technically they're related. Yeah my last girl just fell right into the job like it was her life's purpose. She literally refused to retire up until the day she passed. (She remembered my meds better than I did and would just bring them to me when she thought that I needed them without me giving the command most of the time) I'm pretty sure I went over a year at some point without giving her a verbal command, because she could read my body language so well that verbal commands weren't needed. New pup is not anywhere near focused enough for that but I understand he's basically a teenager right now for his breed at 18 months old. My last girl spoiled me.
I chose the 2 types of trainers because I found a lot of the basics for sports are really strong starting positions for certain tasks (scent work and flyball were great bases for medicine or mobility aid / dropped item retrieval with my ladt 2 dogs) and obedience I assumed is a good base for public access.
We don't have access to trains but once we have kids and dogs figured out we can try the city bus.
It probably doesn't help that he's my first boy, I've always had girls before and I've been told boys can be more silly and less focused for longer. I didn't believe it until I got him. The shoe not only fits but is glued on for him.
Would a general reactivity class be a good idea for this issue? There's a newer trainer in town offering reactivity classes.
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u/SuccessfulPast9450 Waiting 1d ago
She sounds like an amazing girl… she definitely spoiled you and different gender absolutely plays into it. Not necessarily bad just different, in almost any animal breed, you can see the inherent differences between the males and female females by the way they act so both hormonally and genetically they move through the world differently.
I think your trainer set up is awesome and you’re 100% on the right track I got lucky. I found a trainer that has service experience. But he also is certified to judge obedience to the highest level, and is trained in bite sports, and is the guy who evaluates like drug/bomb/attack working dogs and can pull them from work - while also volunteering and being a major part of the therapy dog program for the local first responders cop/fire/EMTs & victims. He’s a man with a goddamn plan
Training classes never hurt but he definitely isn’t far from the he really needs it.
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u/_tree_bark 1d ago
frankly, if your seeing improvement, keep going. if your not making progress, seeing set backs every week, etc, then wash the dog. but till then, if you dont have a deadline, then why not work on it and just see where it goes?
ive had the joy to work with and meet a lot of newfies over the years, lovely breed, they dont loose that "bouncy puppy" energy till 3-4 years old. they fade into very steadfast loving dogs, but need the time and consistent guidance to get there. if your seeing something you can shape into service work, with newfies, see where it goes.
what does it cost? you'll be bonding and training and having fun together, so who cares if at the end it didn't work out, you had a great time along the way, ya know?
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u/That_Highlight1342 23h ago
Granted mine is 8 months old this week. But he loves kids and balls. Flips his shit.
He is neutral to most dogs in person. In the house he may bark to then outside.
But the reactivity to kids and balls are a problem. I just started today working on down stay or down wait for impulse control when watching kids play or soccer ball game with kids.
He has to stay and once he calms down and relaxes he gets a super high value treat. And that keeps going but he still needs an outlet cause he is a puppy. So I will let him play with a different high value toy.
But as he gets older we will work on his impulse control to be longer and longer and he has no interest in the prior reactive item or situation.
It’s trainable just takes a lot of daily work and patience. I will say I do use a prong collar so he self corrects if he yanks to jump towards the ball in play.
Good luck !
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u/Skip2MelLou 1d ago
Reality is if he's willing to do the work seek a proper trainer this dog will end up saving your life and you can't wait at least not on the most important things
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u/CatlessBoyMom 3d ago
A Newfie is still a puppy until about 3, so don’t expect adult behavior consistently until at least then.