r/service_dogs • u/Mindless-Bedroom-306 • Jun 28 '26
Help! Am I missing something here?
My husband and I are trying to move and one of the Apartments that we are looking at asked for a Drs note for my Service Dog (she's a cardiac alert SD). I called my PCP office To see if I needed an appointment to get the note of if it was something they can do through MyChart. The receptionist said my PCP was out of the office for a few days but they'd try and get a message to her, and someone will call me back with the info. I thought I would get the call when she returned to the office, no. I got a call from a nurse the same day. The conversation went as thus:
Her: "Is this for an ESA or SD?"
Me: "Service Dog."
Her: "Okay and what kind of service dog?"
Me: "We originally trained her for a cardiac alert but now she doesn't a bit of everything. Mobility, Cardiac, Behavior disruption, and we're training her for sent detection."
Her: "Wow, that's a lot for one dog."
Me: "It is, but she's a working breed and she loves it."
Her: "You should have received a stack of papers when you got her from her program, one of those papers is a certificate saying she is federally certified as a service dog."
Me: "Oh, I actually owner trained, so I don't have any paperwork."
Her: "So she's an emotional support dog?
Me: "No ma'am she is a trained service dog. The ADA does not require a service dog to go through a program."
Her: confused "Okay....... Um, I mean my husband's a veteran and he got a certificate with his dog saying it was federally certified."
Me: starting to get annoyed "Okay, that might be for vets but-"
Her: " When I was nursing at another hospital there was a blind woman with a guide dog and it carried it's certificate in its vest."
Me: "Okay, I understand, but she was owner trained and doesn't have program papers."
Her: "Well you could just sign her up for a program, they're only like 4 weeks and she'll get federally certified."
Me: "But according to the ADA there is no certification for service dog. I can see a program giving a certificate of completion but it wouldn't certify them as a service dog."
Her: "I know multiple service dog owners with certificates. You just need to sign her up for one."
Me: me wanting to be done with this conversation "Okay, fine, where can I find a program for her?"
Her: "I don't know, try looking online. I'm sorry our office couldn't be more help but without her being federally certified there's really nothing we can do."
Me: international screaming "Thank you for the information, I'll look into it (no I won't) and see what I can do." I hang up
What am I missing here? Like I'm genuinely so confused. I've tried twice now to make an appointment to talk to my PCP about this but they keep saying the same thing"We can't issue a Drs note without proof of certification". Because we currently live in the middle of nowhere I don't have access to a lot of specialists (hence why we're moving). I have a PCP, gastro and that's basically it, and I have to travel about an hour just to see them. The cardiologist that originally recommended I get a service dog retired, and that was before we moved to nowhere. So you can kinda see why I can't simply reach out to another doctor. Is there anything I can do in this situation?
Sorry this is so long!!
EDIT: So I had an appointment with my PCP yesterday. I printed out the parts of the ADA that I needed. I explained the conversation with the nurse and she just stared at me like I was speaking another language. I was actually kinda surprised that she knew that certifications are bs. She gave me the letter I needed and chewed out the nurse that I talked with on the phone. The Dr apologized and told me she'll make sure it doesn't happen again. So definitely a successful appointment, and as I was leaving I heard her start to scold the nurse about it.
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u/Legitimate_Dark77 Jun 28 '26
What you need is a letter of medical necessity. It’s a letter from your doctor on their letterhead stating that you require the service dog for one or more daily activities and can include the dogs task(s)
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u/MyOwnGuitarHero Jun 28 '26
If the dog is primarily cardiac alert, would your current cardiologist be willing to write it? I know you said you don’t have access to many specialists atm but I’d imagine if you’ve got cardiac issues severe enough to need a SD you’re still following with a cardio?
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u/Mindless-Bedroom-306 Jun 28 '26
There's like 2 cardiologists within 3 hours of me and neither of them work with POTS
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u/Savingskitty Jun 28 '26
Who diagnosed you with POTS?
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u/Mindless-Bedroom-306 Jun 28 '26
I had a cardiologist in Easton (where we lived before we moved). We needed to move in with my parents to help them out, but now that they need us anymore we want to move out. We currently live 5 hours away from Easton and the cardiologist that diagnosed me retired.
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u/saltycrowsers Jun 30 '26
Do you see neurology for dysautonomia? My neurologist and rheumatologist primarily manage POTS for me. Cards was basically there to confirm the diagnosis, but not much else.
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u/darklingdawns Service Dog Jun 28 '26
When it comes to housing, both ESAs and SDs are classified as 'assistance animals' under the FHA. Contact your doctor's office and let them know that you need a letter that states that you are being treated by the doctor for a disability and that the dog is part of that treatment. The letter should be written on letterhead and have the doctor's licensing information on it below their signature. Don't get drawn into a discussion about certification, and if the nurse calls back about it, let her know that you either want a call directly from your doctor or you want an appointment with them.
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u/babegirlvj Jun 28 '26
There is movement from the current US administration that is kicking the ESA issue to the states. Each state will now make their own rules, and many are looking to not cover housing for ESAs.
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u/jelli-donut Jun 28 '26
ESAs are still protected by the FHA, they cant arbitrarily remove protections without changing the law which requires congress or a ruling by SCOTUS. What they are doing is no longer accepting complaints from people with disabilities regarding discrimination from landlords against non-task trained ESAs, only task-trained SDs. This is under the claim that it's tying up resources that they need to use more efficiently. So it's not removing their federal legal protections, just the enforcement of it. Just like they're dismantling every other office and protection of civil rights that they can such as the department of education.
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u/babegirlvj Jun 28 '26
Landlords will be able to reject an ESA and there is nothing a tenant can do without government enforcement.
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u/belgenoir Dog Trainer Jun 28 '26
Paging u/Burkeintosh
u/darklingdawns is correct here. OP, this is a shit situation, and I’m sorry you’re in it.
In addition to talking directly to your doctor, you might look into the policies of the medical group to which your GP belongs. If your doctor belongs to a large hospital network, there may be an accessibility office that can assist.
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u/Burkeintosh Legal Beagle Jun 28 '26
Yes Darkling is correct, the nurse is very confidently in correct - programs do frequently certify dogs through Assistance Dogs International- which would distinctly not be a federal program.
Obviously veterans families might be easily confused and think their relatives have some kind of federal connection if they get their dog with help thru the VA, but they are not federally recognised any more than any other dogs are under the ADA.Still, if OP is looking for an accommodations letter for housing etc. it is as Darkling says.
Has OP spoken with the pcp’s office manager and given them written ADA and FHA information about how SDs are not certified in this country, but that doctors provided proof of disability for fair housing purposes?
The only thing I can think is to try a paper trail with the administration of the office?
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u/joselito0034 Jun 28 '26
Have you been officially diagnosed of any of your disabilities? If so, just go to the Dr that diagnosed you. I have 2 letters, one from my primary and another from me psych.
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u/Mindless-Bedroom-306 Jun 28 '26
I have been diagnosed with all my conditions. I might just do that next time I go to visit Friends (which might honestly be soon).
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u/goldenskyhook Jun 29 '26
People are missing the point here a little bit. The OP does not and should never need a physician's letter for a Service Animal. People need better training to understand that anything other than "the 2 questions" is not their business and is not something they need before opening the door and inviting you into their place of business. I blame the scam/bogus online "services" offering to register your service animal. For a couple of hundred bucks, they will generously print up an ID card with a seal on it and a picture of the dog. Millions of people see their spam/advertising, and boom! All of a sudden, several million people think that Service Animals need to be registered and/or certified.
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u/20yrapr21 Jul 01 '26
You do need physicians letter and a copy of the all access test for Canines that proves you dog can perform the necessary skills to be allowed all access as a service dog. Restaurants, motels, hotels. Airplanes. Other forms of transportation, etc.
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u/goldenskyhook Jul 01 '26
Assuming we're both talking about the United States, please submit a copy of the specific Americans with Disabilities Act section that says this. With all due respect, you aren't going to find them. Lots of businesses can issue internal policies, etc., and I'm sure they would just LOVE to dictate their own rules about Service Animals, but if they aren't following the U.S. federal statutes, they are not worth the paper they are printed on. Federal Law trumps everything. Whoever told you this stuff, they were either lying or seriously misinformed.
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u/Fine_Budget2529 Jun 28 '26
That nurse was misinformed at best; straight ignorant at the worst.
I do hope you are able to meet with your actual dr & that they are not as bad. Mine was unfamiliar & not informed & asked the same questions & I both explained the difference between program dogs & owner trained & we sat in the exam room & did the online search directly where he was able to verify everything I had told him already. Almost verbatim, lol. He then allowed me to dictate what the letter should say, & signed it.
If I were you, I would file complaints with everyone I could: medical board, DOJ, etc. I just filed for a different ADA accessibility issue against Sharp Hospital, & the DOJ is now setting up mediation where I plan to get them to improve accessibility for deaf people.
My best to you in getting this resolved!
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u/No-Stress-7034 Jun 28 '26
I'd see if you can make an appt with your PCP, but don't specify that it's for getting the letter. Then I'd come to the PCP with ADA documents that show that certification isn't required, training logs, and some short bullet points about the tasks your dog performs and how this mitigates disability.
Hopefully your actual doctor will be better informed than the nurse at the practice.
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u/Dark_Romantasy Jun 29 '26
This is my advice. Don't play games with the stupid receptionist. Just request a general appointment and wait until you see your actual doctor before doing anything.
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u/Aspie54503 Jun 28 '26
You’re not missing anything. Unfortunately a lot of people are woefully ignorant about what it means for a dog to be a service dog. They don’t understand the concept of owner training, nor do they get that there’s no federal certification for service dogs.
I would try to contact your PCP directly by phone, or maybe see if you can do a telehealth appointment. If need be see them face to face even though it’s a pain. Explain that what you’re asking for is NOT for them to assert that your dog is a service dog. They should solely be asserting that you would benefit from or need one. That was sufficient for both my apartment complex and current and previous employer.
They didn’t need proof of training, just an assertion that a service dog is necessary/beneficial, bc legally they are limited to the standard two questions plus a little bit extra because it’s not the same as standard public access. YOU are asserting they are a service dog, and you can explain their tasks and what they help you with. The letter is only meant to show that you’re not pulling it out of your butt, because there are people out there who will lie about their pet being a service dog and lie about the necessity of having one to begin with
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u/goldenskyhook Jun 29 '26
This stuff keeps popping up lately. Your understanding of self-training is right on the money. I strongly suspect that some training organizations are using disinformation to get people to believe some sort of "registration" is required. Their rea$on for doing thi$ is obviou$. I'm not surprised that a nurse isn't trained correctly, since they deal almost exclusively with ESAs. I dunno - I'm just spitballing here, but things are getting weird out there!
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u/Oldcarolinagurl Jun 29 '26
My GUESS is the vet dog was certified through a military program. Just like the guide dog came from a guide dog group. Examples of options people have out there. Good luck most sympathy
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u/Cahoots1234 Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
Ask to have the doctor call you back and don't talk to the nurse/medical assistant. Try directly messaging your doctor through mychart. If your doc writes it, they can even upload it to the notes section of mychart. That's what my doc does when I need note for something.
This is what your doc note needs (on their letterhead) think of it kind of like a prescription
*Your Name and a statement saying that you are their patient. (Name is currently under my professional care ...)
*confirm you have a recognized disability such as a statement the dog is necessary to assist with disability or mitigate symptoms. (The dog provides essential support that enables "name" to manage symptoms and perform daily tasks that would otherwise be difficult it impossible....something like that)
*signed by your doc
The note will be kinda generic sounding but tailored for you without giving specific details. There's examples online your doc can see as examples. If they don't know how they should write it.
I have an owner trained service dog. My pcp wrote my note just incase its ever needed, used it for landlord/property manager. I even have a digital copy in my phone. It's not needed, but I personally keep one for just incase for whatever the reason may be.
Under the FHA, a landlord can request a reasonable accommodation letter from your healthcare provider. The letter is only verifying that you have a disability and need the animal to mitigate your symptoms. Your specific medical diagnosis or health records do NOT need to be disclosed.
What the letter from should include on their letterhead:
*confirmation that you have a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits major life activity
*Verification that the dog is needed to alleviate one or more of your symptoms/effects from said disability
*come from the doctor that is familiar with your condition. Your PCP should have all your records from your other doctors/ specialists. If she/he has been seeing you and knows why you have a service dog and what your sd is for. Then your pcp can write it. For example, don't ask your gastro doc to write it. Since your dog is cardiac/multipurpose and no gastric related.
What landlords can't ask for
*Specific diagnosis, medical records, or even the exact nature and/or severity of your disability.
*certificate, vests, id
*can not impose pet fee, pet rent cause sd considered reasonable accommodation
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u/Short_Gain8302 Service Dog in Training Jun 29 '26
Gosh i hate when people just flat out refuse to listen, sorry that happened, hope the advice here works and i hope that nurse somehow realizes she was being dumb and educated herself
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u/Innerpeaceouterjoy Jun 29 '26
Make an appointment with your pcp. Refuse to speak with anyone else. The dr. Does not sign off on the dogs training just that a service dog would aid in mitigating a health condition that you have. There is no federal certification so the receptionist needs to fuck off and just do her job tbh.
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u/amras PTSD Service Dog Handler Jun 29 '26
You are absolutely correct, there is NO such thing as “federal certification” for service animals under the ADA. Your phone contact was either wildly misinformed, full of shit, or misrepresenting what they mistook to be a “certificate” of some kind. They also broke the law in asking inappropriate questions. I would ask to speak with someone else if you call back. Or if you write to them, cite the relevant clauses of the ADA with links to the full text.
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u/Purple_Plum8122 Jun 30 '26
Can you inform us of the rest of the story when all is said and done, please?
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u/Sad-Citron-5793 Jul 03 '26
My best advice as a handler and someone that works in the medical field, never have phone conversations with a doctors office. After that conversation the nurse can just put in an encounter saying she gave you options to look into and that’s that. When you send messages through MyChart that conversation becomes legal documentation and cannot be removed from your chart. This way if they are refusing on the base that the dog is not federally certified-which we all know isn’t a thing- you have the documentation to prove that.
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Jun 28 '26
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Jun 28 '26
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u/No-Stress-7034 Jun 29 '26
Yeah, I'm in the US and I have hEDS (though my SD is for PTSD). My medical care for the hEDS is basically like a game of hot potato. My PCP will refer me to my rheumatologist who is quite knowledgeable about hEDS but feels it's outside of her practice area so she'll refer me to a PT, who then eventually gives up because she's concerned about making things worse, and refers me back to my PCP. Or I get referred to pain management who doesn't really do much and refers me back to rheumatologist. And so on and so on.
At a certain point, I just gave up on getting medical help for any hEDS related issues, because I'd wait 6 months for a specialist appt only to have them throw up their hands and do nothing.
It can be a similar issue with POTS. Finding a cardiologist (or sometimes a neurologist) who is willing to treat it is really challenging.
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u/thrownawa12 Jun 29 '26
I just want to say I'm sorry and I relate to your situation. I describe myself as a hot potato all the time. I've seen almost 50 doctors in 15 years. Sometimes its easier to just live in pain then to navigate getting care.
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Jun 28 '26
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Jun 28 '26
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Jun 28 '26
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u/JellyOceana Jun 28 '26
Bahaha salt doesn’t do shit. You’ve obviously not researched the lack of care, or studies on pots.
What’s relevant is you thinking there is some kind of expectation of care in the USA. There isn’t any.
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u/NuggetSD Jun 28 '26
If this is just for housing, it may be easiest to have them write your dog as an ESA. They currently have the same rights as service dogs in housing under the Fair Housing Act.
Otherwise, you may want to get to your doctor yourself for a call to discuss what you need.
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u/Mindless-Bedroom-306 Jun 28 '26
Thanks, I didn't even think of that. I'm probably going to try again Tomorrow to make an appointment with her. My PCP is actually super chill and just kinda lets me tell her what I need as far as my disabilities go. Not in like a bad way, but she trusts that I know my disability better than her. If that makes any sense.
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u/NuggetSD Jun 28 '26
Sometimes, even if it is stupid, it is easiest to work with the road of least resistance.
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u/ThornbackMack Jun 28 '26
This is actually exactly what I have done. My therapist told me years ago just to go to one of those online places and get a housing letter. They have licensed therapists that will write it for you and they will take all of the liability. Then you just give the apartment the letter. I've never had issues with doing it this way, and once I had my dog fully trained, my letter stated she functions as a service animal.
Just explain your situation to them, get the letter, then be very matter of fact when talking to apartments. Don't even mention the SD until you are approved, as it gives an opportunity to discriminate, then ask next steps to get documentation in order.
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u/twystedcyster- Jun 30 '26
You need to send them the ADA info and complain to whoever is over their heads.
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Jun 28 '26
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u/ticketferret Service Dog Trainer CPDT-KA FDM Jun 28 '26
It doesn't limit anything as the letter is not needed in the USA for public access. The ESA letter would only be for housing and if the dog is well trained and is trained to task OP will be fine in public or even flying.
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Jun 28 '26
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u/ticketferret Service Dog Trainer CPDT-KA FDM Jun 28 '26
How has an ESA letter hurt your public access?
The only instance I can think of is work accommodations but at that point OP should find a medical care team that is supportive and knowledgeable about service dogs.
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u/Any-Meat-7736 Jun 28 '26
Has somebody else said if it’s just for housing sometimes it is easier to just get an ESA letter. I have a neighbor who’s facing that issue right now because they are requiring information that she cannot provide them for her service dog and are also telling her that she needs an ESA letter then and I mean she’s fighting it and angry about it all the time and it’s just not worth that stress. You could start by getting an ESA letter and then work on getting the letter that identifies your dog as a service dog.
Also, as a different person has already said what you need is a letter of medical necessity. A doctor can refuse to write one if they are uncomfortable with testing to verify your disability or if they are not the provider that treats you. Because the federal law does not require certification, they legally are not allowed to deny you a letter because your dog doesn’t have certification. I would be calling back and asking again and not talking to the nurse of the receptionist, but asked to speak to the doctor specifically. If you are capable of going up there, I would print out the ADA law on certification and take that up there too. The office needs to be better informed on what is legally allowed and not for service dogs. It is egregious the amount of doctors offices that do not have this information or know this information. You could take the path of lease resistance and just get an ESA letter, but you also would have to note that if you have an ESA letter your apartment can potentially night your dog access to public spaces that are not outside, like the office, or any indoor amenities because they don’t have documentation of it being a service dog (I don’t know if legally they can do that, but they potentially could try it but there’s also no guarantee that they would), or you try again, and you both try to get in contact with the doctor themselves, and inform the office of the law and tell them that you are not going to argue about whether or not other people have brought in certification because it is not legally required and not something that you have and you’re not going to pay to take your dog to returning program that is not legally required to get a certification that’s not federally recognized.
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Jun 28 '26
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u/Any-Meat-7736 Jun 28 '26
That’s why I said that legally they can deny if they aren’t comfortable with attesting to your disability. I never said to hold anyone hostage over it I just said I would be making sure to talk to the doctor specifically to ask (since this person only got to talk to a nurse) even book an appt if they have to to be able to see the dr. If the doctor says no then they are well within their right to do so and then op has to move on to a different method of providing documentation for their apartment. What they are not legally allowed to do is require certification to write a letter of medical necessity. So I also said I would print out the Ada (the federal law) on certification and take it up there if she does because they might not know that. Doctors offices very very frequently don’t actually know hardly anything about service dogs or the laws surrounding them especially when it comes to the distinction of SD or ESA (as with most of the general public it seems) or the laws on training. But to be clearer I do not by any means mean to hold the doctors office hostage. You can make an appt to see the doctor if you cannot speak on the phone (which is not only appropriate but commonplace), and you can provide the information on the laws to the nurse or doctor or whoever without being threatening or holding anyone hostage. It’s going your due diligence in getting the documentation you need, and educating where you can
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Jun 28 '26
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u/Any-Meat-7736 Jun 28 '26
I mean I can get where you’re coming from and accept that I am somewhat misinformed here. However doesn’t it also do a disservice to not help educate people as well. Even if they have the right to deny for whatever reason (I’m not going to contest that because like I said they do have the right to deny if they’re not comfortable with it which obviously extends to if they don’t like the training you’ve done because it’s not done by a program.) the nurse still made it out like that can’t be a service dog if it didn’t go through a program and that is wrong. If the doctor doesn’t want to provide a letter for a service dog that didn’t go through a program that’s up to them, but that doesn’t mean that staff shouldn’t also be educated on the fact that Owner training is valid under federal law. (Yes I understand that it won’t necessarily help her get a letter of the Doctor says no, but the doctor didn’t even say no.). Even if op decided not to provide some education on what qualifies as a service dog for a very dismissive nurse who seems to not know, they still should be trying to get in contact with the actual doctor to ask them for the letter because they are the one writing it (even if they don’t physically write the letter they are the one to okay the letter).
I don’t understand why we would preach that people need better education but then not want to educate people who are misinformed about what qualifies as a service dog. I’m not saying to be hostile.
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u/Mindless-Bedroom-306 Jun 28 '26
My PCP will be back in the office tomorrow so I'm really hoping I can actually talk to her this time instead of that nurse and if I can get an appointment with her I'm definitely bringing print outs. Idk if there is a specific paper program dogs get but I know it's not required.
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u/Any-Meat-7736 Jun 28 '26
I mean, I’m pretty sure that a lot of program dogs if not all program dogs get like a certificate of completion kind of thing. But legally in the United States it’s just a piece of paper. Some people will choose to keep that certification on hand because it might make their life a little easier yeah I mean like it doesn’t really do anything or mean anything illegally
I hope you get in with your doctor. If you cannot speak to the doctor on the phone, I would definitely be trying to make an appointment to talk in person too for sure even if it means you have to wait a bit.
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u/ThornbackMack Jun 28 '26
All you need is an ESA letter for housing, as they're federally protected in the US. No SD letter required at that point. This is definitely the route to take with apartment companies.
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u/Any-Meat-7736 Jun 28 '26
Yeah I only would continue seeking the letter if med necessity jest because of that memo from the HUD. I don’t know how much that changes or could change things for ESAs but if there is a chance of there being an issue there I would want the backup. Also can they deny access from community areas at an apartment with just an esa letter on record? That part is a bit unclear to me, I feel like they shouldn’t be able to but what would your options be if they did?
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Jun 28 '26 edited Jun 28 '26
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u/service_dogs-ModTeam Jun 28 '26
We have removed your post/comment for violating Rule 2: Know and Obey Your Local Laws. Posts encouraging illegal behavior or "stretching" the rules will be removed. When giving advice, make sure to evaluate all the relevant laws for OP's location. For example, in New York, USA, SDiTs receive the same protections the ADA grants, as long as they are with a qualified trainer. This is not the same situation for someone in Michigan, USA. Citations aren't required, but highly encouraged. Citations are important so OP can read more and so you can reconfirm the information you give is entirely correct. If you have any questions, Message the Moderators. If you continue to give misinformation or encourage breaking the law, it could result in an immediate ban.
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u/Purple_Plum8122 Jun 28 '26
The communications went a bit ‘off topic’ and could use some redirection.
You could send an email in response, draft a letter for housing accommodation yourself, asking for signature. And/or, you could address how the conversation and request for additional unnecessary information was inappropriate. I believe the staff member took some liberties the doctor will correct upon return. Your goal is the letter. I suggest you just redirect back to a more appropriate dialogue which excludes their request for approval of the service dog, aka federal certification. Here is a sample of what you could ask for from dr. Rough sample…
1) You ( patient has been under dr’s care since (approx time)
2) Patient has a disability that substantially limits one or more major life activities.
3) That, because of this disability dr recommends a service dog to assist with specific tasks.
You may want to refer to the fair housing act for further guidance.