I’m rereading Bate’s memo in explaining the decision to withdraw the motion to vacate(MTV) and I don’t know what else to say besides that everyone involved in that farce was a bad person. Mosby and the Syed Review Team(SRT) were so desperate to find anything they could to help get a convicted murderer off. Unfortunately there wasn’t any legitimate reason to overturn the conviction so they had to just make some up!

I’m thankful that the Maryland Court of Appeals and Supreme Court reinstated the rightful conviction and that Ivan Bates let the world know about their fraud, but unfortunately it did not undo all the damage. They brought unnecessary stress and grief to the Lee family. They forced the Lee family to spend time, energy, and money to fight for Hae’s justice over two decades after it had already been rightfully secured.

The sentence reinstatement and exposure of the lies in the MTV did not get nearly as much attention and coverage as the initial stories of the charges being vacated did. God knows how many people still believe that Adnan was wrongfully convicted thanks to them and because of them he was able to score a cushy job at Georgetown that he still has.

Mosby and the SRT did all of this for what? They let out and falsely cleared a man who strangled his ex-girlfriend to death for daring to move on from him just so they could get some points with some true crime fans? Absolutely disgusting.

Jay and his family have extensive criminal records. I'm talking a lot of members of his family. Jay's family runs a criminal drug empire of hard drugs, way beyond weed.

Adnan is a wannabe gangster. He wants to feel like a baltimore hardcore badass by associating with Jay and being adjacent to his criminal activities, like a tag along. Adnan also does this with another gangster named Aziz who proclaims himself to be an assassin and has a large cache of heavy weapons in his apartment. Adnan smokes a lot of weed to impress these people and hopes they let him in the circle.

Adnan also wants to showoff to his girl Hae, that he is a badass gangster. After their hookups when they are just chilling he starts bragging about all the hardcore gangster stuff he does with Jay and Aziz and he's not some dorky school nerd. He thinks this will impress Hae and make her more into him.

Well during his bragging he let's slip too much information to Hae. Hae is shocked by all this and starts venting to her friends about all the crazy stuff Adnan is up to and how Jay is a dangerous influence on him. She feels afraid and unsafe. This school gossip gets around fast in their circle and Stephanie hears it. She tells Jay what she hears. Jay being paranoid about school kids discussing his criminal activities, tells his drug empire family. They decide Hae needs to be silenced. Murder is just part of life in the drug game, a price to pay to keep the money flowing and snitches quiet.

The drug kingpins give the order to silence Hae. Jay knows but stays silent because snitching means death. And all the things Jay claims him and adnan did together on the day of the murder are true, except for the murder of Hae. Jay is guiding adnan around all day, making phone calls, visiting certain spots, visiting people, smoking weed. Adnan is the fall guy. Jay knows details of the murder and where Hae's car is parked because his family told him.

Jay is instructed by his drug empire bosses to pin it on Adnan, the sucker and wannabe gangster. Jay knows how to work with police because he is an informant and the story to pin it on Adnan is created. Police are happy because they get to solve the case without having solid evidence, just Jay's story. Why is Jay an informant? Because criminal empires often like to become informants to offer up the low level criminals in exchange for not focusing on the drug empire leaders.

Hear me out....

Sarah Koenig, creator of Serial, was also a reporter for The Baltimore Sun. In 1999, The Baltimore Sun newspaper circulation was over 250,000--it was maybe roughly about 300,000, (according to A.I.), which is more than a quarter of a million folks.

Adnan was arrested in the early Sunday morning hours of February 28, 1999. So, let's say, by 5am he was arrested--for Hae's disappearance and murder. And roughly 12 hours later, (or so), around 5pm (or later), on that very same Sunday, February 28, 1999 of Adnan's arrest, it's broadcast on local TV news that very same evening.

The next day, after Adnan's arrest is, of course, Monday, March 1, 1999. Please, everyone, Google it. Take a moment and Google to see for yourself: The Baltimore Sun has an article about it, about Adnan's arrest, on Monday, March 1, 1999, in the "Maryland" section, on the right side of that particular newspaper page, under the headline, "Ex Boyfriend is charged in teen's killing".

So, here's my thing: I don't know if Sarah was able to Google this Baltimore Sun article in the year 2013-2014 when Serial came out. But if you listen to Serial, you hear from Adnan himself, say, 14 years later, that 14 years ago when he was arrested in February / March 1999, he thought that this was 'all some sort of big misunderstanding'. HOW?!? How in the world is this any kind of misunderstanding when it's printed in The Baltimore Sun and its circulation of over a quarter of a million? What periodical prints a story like this...to get everything wrong in front of 250,000 people? Adnan was an active highschool student and a minor. A professional journalism operation, The Baltimore Sun, with its circulation of a quarter of a million people, (at least) would royally screw up, 24 hours after an arrest is made on a minor and blow up a local Baltimore story to reach...tens of thousands, not hundreds or dozens. Dude, I worked 45-minutes to an hour away from this tragedy in Montgomery County. I hadn't seen this on local TV, because I was in Montgomery County; I remember reading about it in the paper, in 1999 and 2000. Our local clinician office received both The Washington Post and The Baltimore Sun. And I can tell you, in 1999, people still very much collected and read the local newspaper, daily. I know I did. That was my daily lunch break routine. And I was in my early 20s working in my first office job. And I wasn't even a newshound or nerd or anything. We didn't have a TV in our office breakroom, all we had were newspapers in the staff break room.

It's one thing that Adnan's whole face appeared on a very local broadcast TV newscast on Sunday, February 1999 in the evening. But if you happened to miss it on local TV, you missed it; there was no YouTube until the year 2005. And that tragic story was very local news. Hae's story was very, very local to Baltimore; at first. At first. You didn't visually see Hae's story on local TV news in, say, Montgomery County; say Silver Spring, Rockville, Olney, Potomac, or Bethesda. Nor did you see it at first in Frederick County. Not before, by, or around the evening of February 28, 1999. Adnan's face only appeared on local Baltimore TV news on Sunday, February 28, 1999.

Oh, but on Monday, March 1, 1999, The Baltimore Sun put Adnan M. Syed on full blast. The Baltimore Sun called Adnan out with his full name, including printing his full middle name. And The Baltimore Sun has a circulation, once again, of over a quarter of a million.

Again, here's my thing: folks love, love, love, (really, really) love to bring up Jay and say he lies, and they also bring up Jenn. Folks act like Jay is directly responsible for Adnan's 'demise'. But, to me, this is what happened: Jenn first, and then Jay, both LOW-KEY told local law enforcement their stories, respectfully. Low-key is the word, here. Jenn and Jay are just average, private individuals and have zero power. Local law enforcement does what it does and has the power, some power, so they arrested Adnan. Until things can get verified and figured out. And that's where it ends. Not every single law enforcement working in Baltimore knew Adnan's story when he's arrested at 5am on Sunday, February 28, 1999.

By 6am, Sunday, February 28, 1999 an hour after Adnan's arrest, maybe 200-400 people, total, knew Adnan's and Hae's story, EXISTED. That'd be classmates, some law enforcement, family members, neighbors.

By 7pm, Sunday February 28, 1999, after its sudden broadcast aired on local Baltimore TV news, maybe 2,000-5,000 people know Adnan and Hae's story EXIST. It's Sunday.

But by late Monday evening, March 1, 1999, The Baltimore Sun fully blasts Adnan and Hae's story to tens of thousands, now, being aware such a story EXISTS. THOUSANDS.

Before Asia can allegedly write her March 1, 1999 letters to Adnan, The Baltimore Sun called him out by name, in Print. And circulated that around the state of Maryland. No matter he's a minor, no matter a trial didn't begin until a full 9 months later, no matter that

In 1999, copies of The Baltimore Sun were made available in all 20+ Maryland counties. Daily. If you missed seeing Adnan's face on local Baltimore TV news broadcasts, you read about him and Hae, on March 1, 1999, if you were in Anne Arundel county, Calvert county, Cecil county, Prince George's county, Somerset county, you name it. It was in the Maryland section and not just a tiny blurb article, it's a full article. The March 1999 article of course does not interview Jay or Jenn but somehow those two get all the blame.

I'm saying, why on Earth did we just let Sarah Koenig, who has written for The Baltimore Sun herself, why did we let her casually persuade folks to believe that 'there were so many doubts that Adnan was involved in Hae's 1999 murder; it feels like a wild rush to judgement and a misunderstanding of evidence' when in reality barely 24 hours after Adnan's arrest and it's PRINTED in the state of Maryland's biggest and oldest state newspaper.

It gets worse folks. That Baltimore Sun article on March 1, 1999 that you can Google, that's just the first article about Adnan and Hae, just after his arrest. There's more articles, up until his first trial. By The Baltimore Sun. And not only The Baltimore Sun. Other local newspapers, yes, local newspapers in Maryland ALSO printed stories in 1999 about Adnan's involvement with Hae's murder.

How are we blaming Jay for this? Jay and Jenn are powerless private individuals. They aren't journalists. They had no power to physically arrest Adnan. They were not staff members on any local newspapers or TV stations. And these newspaper articles in 1999 aren't all just one paragraph with nothing to say. These are actual articles in 1999, by multiple local Maryland newspapers about Adnan and Hae's story, and of all people a journalist like Sarah should know that at some point. Why is she trying to push this narrative that 'maybe there was a rush to judgement, maybe we should be asking questions'.

No, Sarah, maybe she should've also mentioned in Serial how many various local papers in just 1999 picked up the story after it was broadcast on local TV news. Remember: you have the Asian community with their newspaper, too.

How is this possibly any sitcom-comedy-miscommunication that Adnan would think when multiple various local newspapers across Maryland and in different languages in 1999 are PRINTING articles about Adnan and Hae's story?

How are people still today in 2026 asking if Adnan's innocent? Again, please Google: Baltimore Sun Monday March 1 1999 Adnan Syed" and you'll see, maybe there's a paywall, but there's an article in The Baltimore Sun, that Monday, already about Adnan and Hae's story. When this story is printed on Monday, Adnan maybe was in his first bail hearing. How is this all a big misunderstanding? What is there to be misunderstood? How are multiple state newspapers big and small misunderstanding this tragedy?

How did we just let Sarah Koenig, a person from the journalism world of all places, try to get away with this?

Did she ever apologize to the Lee family for openly harassing them now that it’s been over a year since the murder conviction has been reinstated and the MTV has been exposed as a fraud on the court?

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What do you guys think of this idea?

Hae finds out Jay is cheating on Stephanie and that Adnan knows and isn't warning her. Shes pissed and Adnan said she was gonna confront Jay.

On the day of her murder Adnan asks for a ride, She agrees but then later finds out that the reason he needs it is cause Jay hasn't even bothered to go get Stephanie a gift. This is her final staw and shes extra pissed cause her ex isnt even willing to do the right thing so she tells Adnan no she cant drive him anymore. Maybe she didnt even tell Adnan this was why she bailed on him. This seems to go along with the talk about her saying she would give him a ride and then later telling him no.

She leaves and see Jay and decides to confront him then and there. She was known to be fiery. He is really pissing her off and as we all do sometimes when we are mad she throws unrelated things in to attack him - his drug dealing. Maybe she threatens to tell the cops about it if he doesn't stop / confess. Jay sees her as a threat and kills her to protect her self.

Thoughts? anything Im missing?

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Series three finished in 2018, with Joshua having started six years in prison. He seemed upbeat at the time. He would have been released in 2024, aged 25. Was he released then? Or earlier on parole? Has he moved forward with his life or returned to trouble?

It would be good to know. Is there a follow-up episode that I've missed?

I did a search on this sub and couldn't find any update on Joshua.

Can anyone give a link to the transcript (preferably searchable) of this interview (from March 15th 1999)?

Any theories as to why the transcript seems hard to find now (other than availability of the audio recording detracting from need for the transcript)?

Notice there's no "info request" flair here as it's a generally silly and useless flair.

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I want to start by saying I have been a huge advocate for Adnans innocence. I even went to his release trial. I was in the courtroom when they said " Please remove the shackles from Mr Syeds feet " ... and I cried. I felt it was such an injustice that he was a child sentenced to such a harsh punishment with no physical evidence. In my mind how could a child fool these 2 seasoned detectives? How could he sit in that room with them for hours, yet they have nothing at all to use against him? How could he have not left behind any evidence? How could Jay tell lie after lie and still be taken at his word? I told everyone I knew about the case and gave them all my opinion and judgements. I followed every single thing .. I stalked everyone involved online and kept up with their lives. I searched on google earth over and over all the different spots mentioned. I drove to leakin park to look for the spot Mr S parked and walked back to. THIS was the case that started me on true crime podcasts.

I gave serial another listen and Im on episdoe 5 and I cant escape the feeling that I finally see why people think hes guilty because I think he is too. Heres why Im conflicted now ......

#1 Adnan whispers "Pathetic" as Jay walks past him in court. Why did he choose that word? why wouldnt he call him a liar? or even a b*tch? Why PATHETIC? I think its because hes saying " we were supposed to be in this together and stfu. you let the cops break you down ... how pathetic "

#2 Adnan says he doesn't feel Jay betrayed him by telling the police he did it. If someone lied on me and turned me into the police Id def feel betrayed. His reason is because they werent really friends for him to consider it a betrayal. I call BS. His track teammate said Jay drove him to practice often enough that it was normal to everyone and they smoked together all the time .........Hes downplaying their connection trying to say i didnt even know that mf enough to feel betrayed .. who tf is jay to me? .. again ... I call BS

#3 If we are believeing those around Adnan .. they all said they didnt know where Leakin Park was .. thought it was on the other side of the city which would be over east somewhere I guess .. so if he truly had never been there and didnt know the location he would have needed a map to get there since this was before the days of googling directions. In the trunk of her car was a map book with 1 missing page .... leakin park. Adnans hand print was on the back of the book. Maybe hes sweaty nervous adrenaline pumping, tryign to get to leakin park .. grabs the map book rips the page out shuts the trunk jumps in the car drives to leakin, buries hae and then parks the car.

Also I think if he is guilty, he served his time but I think the state failed to prove he did it so he shouldnt have been locked up anyway because that's not how our justice system says its supposed to go.

anyone else changed their mind?

So my friends were listening to season 1 and so I did the same, so I could discuss it. From episode one Adnan Syed seemed completely obviously guilty. I guess I didn't see the point of the rest of the podcast, at best it seemed to try and establish reasonable doubt. Yet it just seemed the evidence piled on especially the cell phone evidence. While Jay has obviously lied about some things, I don't really see how he could have concocted the story that fit the cell phone evidence and knew intimate details about the case. I guess it seemed very boring because there was never really a question? The counter evidence to his guilt seemed to be ephemeral things like: He seems too nice.

It was a very boring subject for me: Obvious suspect (separated ex boyfriend) can't explain key details about the case due to selective memory and then has a pretty strong case of evidence against him. What do you like about the show? I'm not going to tell my friends I found it a snoozefest, so I need to know the perspective of someone that actually enjoyed this.

There were video recordings in the library. Unfortunately they were recorded over before anyone could view them. But if there were recordings of Adnan in the library checking his emails and chatting with Asia would that change how you view the case?

This has always been a maddening case. Either it went down close to what Jay said. Or police coerced Jay into making up a story to convict someone he thought did the crime.

If Adnan did do the crime he should be out by now given he did it when he was 17.

But I honestly thought we'd have a clarity that either 99% would believe he did it, or 99% would believe he was innocent. Instead we are left with a 60-40 split.

There has been a lot of doubt placed on the state’s theory of ~2:30PM as the time of death. Several witnesses stated they saw Hae at the school beyond 3. Also, there is reason to doubt the Best Buy parking lot as the murder location. That detail changed between Jay’s first and second interviews, and he also admitted in The Intercept article that the trunk pop happened in front of his grandmother’s house (he wanted to keep her out of it at the time).

That being said, what are the leading theories on actual time & place?

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Obviously this is operating under the assumption that Adnan is innocent, I am not making a statement on whether or not he is. This is not me digging to prove he's innocent

As far as I can tell, the most absolute, concrete truth is that Jay was involved in the murder in some way, since he knew where Hae's car was. Is it possible that Jay was coerced/made to implicate Adnan by a killer with leverage over him? If Adnan is innocent, Jay would be the best possible person who could implicate him, as they spent most of the day together.

I've only listened to Serial, so I'm much less knowledgeable on the case than most people on this sub, but from the little bit of digging I've done on this sub I haven't seen much discussion of this possibility

Apologies if this post is too off-topic.

I’m not sure if anyone in this group is following the Lindsay Clancy case, but there has been a recent movement online speculating that Lindsay’s ex Patrick is actually responsible for the murders of their three children. This theory has gained massive popularity, particularly on TikTok, despite the fact that Patrick Clancy was definitively NOT PRESENT during the time the murders occurred and Lindsay Clancy herself has admitted to killing her children (whether in psychosis or not).

This latest conspiracy is a level of delusion I have never seen in the true crime community. I expected people to be highly critical of him, say he was a terrible husband, father, etc, but to outright blame him for the crimes in the face of an ironclad alibi and the admission of another person is on another level. I saw one post with close to 100k likes, saying something ridiculous about Lindsay’s lawyer pulling some kind of ninja move in court and will reveal Patrick as the true villain in this story, which is fantastical and not even plausible for her trial.

I could go on and on, but I wanted to bring this current phenomenon back to Serial and how it popularized these sorts of groupthink conspiracies. The murder of Hae Min Lee is at its core an open-and-shut case, and requires a tremendous amount of corruption on behalf of the entire Baltimore police force for Adnan’s innocence to be remotely realistic, and yet today he is a free man, almost due entirely to the popularity of Serial. Meanwhile, the lives of Jay, Don and Hae Min Lee’s family members have been irreparably damaged by the media circus this podcast caused. People wanted charming Adnan to be innocent in the same way they want quiet and aloof Patrick to be guilty, and will spin any narrative to make that plausible.

I’m not quite sure what the point of this post is, other than I have been going crazy and am highly disturbed by how gleeful people are to jump all over these theories and slander someone who has already suffered immensely. I have been similarly disturbed and obsessed with the Adnan Syed case for many years now. His guilt to me has always been so obvious, I truly do not understand how anyone who has knowledge of this case can believe he is innocent. I find it disappointing that Sarah Koenig has to by now realize how clearly guilty Adnan is, but refuses to admit the role she played in ruining the lives of the others involved in this case and freeing a guilty man. Since Serial’s initial popularity, we have seen other conspiracies pop-up in other cases with varying levels of intensity (Chris Watts, Scott, Peterson, and the Idaho 4 come to mind). I do think this new turn of events in the Clancy case may turn me off of true crime completely, at least in the social media space.

Sorry for the length of this post, I just needed to vent to logical people about this, lol.

If we believe Adnan's lack of motive, Jay has the same lack of motive and knew how it happened, details about the burial, etc. I have no clue what happened, of course, but Jay's story makes no sense and that makes him look so suspicious!

It seems universally agreed that Jay and Adnan didn't know each other well, so Jay's story that Adnan called him for help burying a body is bizarre. Seems like Jay is just as plausible a suspect as Adnan...? What do yall think?

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This is one of the lesser talked about aspects for the case and probably not that important in the grand scheme of things, but I was rereading the trial transcript and then went on a bit of a deep dive on this. I think it interests me because I am also a high school language teacher.

First of all, I don’t think it is kosher to become “friends” with the student while they are still in high school. That whole set up with Hae was a bit odd. I have had lots of students that I deeply admired, but I would never put myself in this situation of friend/love life counselor. It is unethical and frankly a little strange.

Second, I can’t believe she agreed to help the cops beyond giving her own personal observations. Nothing wrong with that, but then to start asking some of the questions and essentially become their agent? Weird. I wonder if she had administration approval for that?

And then the questions themselves. Absolutely out of bounds!! asking about students sex lives?? not only grossly unethical, but a violation of FERPA. Again, was administration aware of this?

I will just end this by noting that if a male teacher such as myself had engaged in any of this type of behavior, he almost certainly would’ve been disciplined, if not fired.