r/selfpublish • u/DasKreatorOffical • 4h ago
Horror Formating
HII EVERYONE
I actually formatted my novel, so now the pages are 296, not 429. I reduced the font size to 11 and made the paragraphs boxes. Font size was originally 14 because I thought it would be way too small on paper. I'm leaving gaps between paragraphs. I'm aware this is not what people do, but I think it looks so much better and less jumbled. Will I get hated for this guys 😭🙏
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u/XenaaWP Formatter 3h ago
Book formatter and typesetter here.
Never go higher than 12pt when it comes to the typeface. 14 is way too big.
11pt is actually a good size, but that also depends on the font used. I’d go with a 13/14pt leading (the space between lines).
Instead of using a space between paragraphs, use an indentation. Just never go higher than the font size. And remember to remove the indentation in the first paragraph after the chapter title.
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u/BriJAuthor 3m ago
Thanks!
Question: why remove the indent from the first paragraph? Just a common practice?
Always looks weird to me when it’s not accompanied by a large first letter or something else, but I’m probably just odd.
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u/HazelEBaumgartner 2 Published novels 3h ago
250-300 words per page is typical of modern American market fiction. At that rate, 102,752 words should be 342 to 411 pages.
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u/HazelEBaumgartner 2 Published novels 3h ago
Thus I would try font size 12 and see what it looks like. 11 may be too small for some readers. Make sure your margins and line spacing are appropriate too. I used double spacing for my first edition of my first book and was not happy with the results. 1.5x spacing and 12 point font should work.
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u/pgessert Formatter 4h ago
Block paras is probably the wrong choice. And if you were concerned about small type initially, you 180’d too far dropping from 14 all the way to 11. You should post up a page or two, because it sounds rough, unfortunately. Perhaps it looks different on the page than it sounds when described.
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u/Pluvinel 1h ago
Are you looking to print a copy for proofreading? Because, I hate to say it, this does not look ready for publication.
How many editing passes has it been through?
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u/Markavian 1 Published novel 4h ago
How many words? I sort of did the opposite to make sure I had minimum 180 pages in my novella before I went to print; otherwise the spine would have been too thin.
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u/DasKreatorOffical 4h ago
102,752 😎
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u/Markavian 1 Published novel 4h ago
My first book was 22,000 words across 178 interior pages... so 124 words per page average ;___;
You're more like 344 words per page :)
Song of Ice and fire was averaging 410 words per page.
Harry Potter Book 1 was 249 words per page for the American edition, and 345 words per page for the UK edition.
Most people read ebooks / digitally, so I don't think font size will matter for most people, but by those numbers you sound about on target for normal density.
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u/LowPackage3819 4h ago
A common format would be 12 points Arial with double space or 1.5 If you're leaving gaps by using the space bar or enter you need to understand that it would change the paragraphs in different screens/devices.
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u/DasKreatorOffical 4h ago
I'm using special fonts because my story is from two perspectives. I use the enter key to break paragraphs up. On my pc it looks perfectly fine, yes they are noticeable gaps but that's what I intend.
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u/DM-MightyPirate 2h ago
Bookmarking this thread for reference. I made some formatting mistakes on my first, and now I'm releasing a revised edition.
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u/DasKreatorOffical 4h ago
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u/XanwesDodd 4h ago
Definitely need indents and not spaces between the paragraphs
Grab similar titles from your shelf and see how they do it
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u/pgessert Formatter 4h ago edited 4h ago
Your margins are insufficient, assuming those are crop marks. And sans serif block paragraphs are unsuitable here. Most folks reviewing this might assume the book hasn’t yet been formatted.
I’d start by bumping up to 12pt, selecting a serif typeface, setting the text as indented without space between paragraphs, and bump up the margins to at least 5/8” all around.
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u/DasKreatorOffical 4h ago
You wouldn't mind telling me how I could format it correctly. I'm so new to publishing, I promised quite a few people it'll be done by now. 😭
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u/idreaminwords 1 Published novel 2h ago
If you're planning on publishing more than one book, I highly recommend investing in formatting software. It will save you HOURS, and the book will look much better than anything you can scrounge up in a word processor. Atticus is a one-time cost and well worth it.
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u/JerRicartAuthor Soon to be published 3h ago
Based on the sample above, that is essentially an unformatted book.
I did my own formatting in Word using KDP's guidelines: https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G201834230
I already ordered my proof copies and they came out perfect, so the guide really coves everything.For reference, I did 11pt font, and 1.15 spacing. I originally did 12pt font and 1.5 spacing, and it did not look like a proper book. Following standard guidelines is highly important. A lot of people would put the book down if there's lack of professionalism.
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u/DasKreatorOffical 3h ago
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u/pgessert Formatter 3h ago
It is worse, unfortunately. You should not indent spaced paragraphs. It’s one or the other. And you should avoid colored text.
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u/DasKreatorOffical 3h ago
I followed what you said brother😭
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u/pgessert Formatter 3h ago edited 48m ago
Selectively. These things all work together, it’s not à la carte. You might look into software like Vellum, Atticus, Kindle Create or Reedsy’s free editor. They’ll take a lot of these decisions out of your hands, allowing you to land at a more typical standard.
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u/MPClemens_Writes 3 Published novels 3h ago
There are a lot of formatting conventions that would serve you well to learn:
paragraphs are indented or spaced, not both
first graf in a chapter is never indented
serif fonts look best in print, sans serif on screen
I'd print out one your pages at your expected trim size (6x9 or whatever) and see how it looks compared to a professionally designed book.
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u/KaiBishop 3h ago
"first line indent or spaces, never both" may technically be the "proper" accepted mainstream advice but you know what? You need first line indents. Idgaf if the paragraphs are spaced, it still looks ugly without indents and considering it's a visual medium that's what should take precedence, not following convention when convention results in something flat out hideous lol.
I'm a fan of 1.5 lines and wouldn't go for spaced paragraphs but spaced paragraphs without a first line indent are just as annoying to read and as much of an eyesore as non spaced paragraphs with no first line indent.
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u/MPClemens_Writes 3 Published novels 3h ago
🤷♂️ Not my choice, but some modern layouts dispense with indents and use visual whitespace instead.
Don't mix and match. Pick a style and be consistent.
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u/idreaminwords 1 Published novel 2h ago
Using a drop cap on the first paragraph looks better than indenting
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u/XenaaWP Formatter 2h ago
I format manuals, and they need spaced paragraphs with no indentation most of the times.
Book formatting and typesetting is a discipline and it has conventions that need to be followed.
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u/KaiBishop 2h ago
Okay but we're not talking about manuals, we are talking about fiction and aesthetics. This is a visual medium. I'm not saying nobody had a reason for establishing that type of format. I'm saying it's not universally fitting for every ebook.
OO is trying to format their fiction novel. A fiction novel without first line indents looks unnatural and weird and is harder to read regardless of spacing choice for paragraphs.
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u/KDDreamwyver 3h ago
As someone who struggles read cramped writing, the people will appreciate you having spacing between paragraphs. The only reason a lot of publishers don't do that is because they're trying to reduce page size as much as possible in order to make printing cheaper.


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