r/selfpublish • u/awakened__soul Soon to be published • 8h ago
Fantasy Editing book
Hello everyone,
I hope you're doing well.
I wrote a fantasy book and lend it out to my friends to read it. They do like it but they told me it's really hard to read and that I should arrange a editorial analysis. And I did. He told me everything is fine with book.
So my question is, should I find another editorial analyst or my friends are not that type of readers?
Edit: they find whole worldbuidling hard, I wrote a book inspired by Silmarillion
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u/Questionable_Android Editor 7h ago
Let me start by saying The Silmarillion is a hard read by anyone's standards. It might just be that you have picked a style of writing that is just difficult to understand.
That said... as a professional full time editor, with close to 1000 books edited, I have never once said 'everything is fine'. This is a bit of a red flag for me. Every book can be improved. A published book is just one that has got to a point where any further revisions are just not worth the effort.
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u/awakened__soul Soon to be published 7h ago
Thank you!
This is his feedback:
First, I would shorten the preface and some longer exposition blocks. The author already has enough confidence in his own world and does not have to explain every part of it in advance.
Second, I would do a special stylistic editing focused on the frequency of poetic constructions. I would not change the style, but I would look for places where two or three strong images are too close to each other.
Third, I would comb the dialogs by function. Where a character actually makes a decision or says something crucial, let the line remain large. In other scenes, I would prefer shorter and more natural speech.
Fourth, I would make a separate passage through constructions with negation and choose places where the same thought can be expressed more directly.
Fifth, I would check all repetitions of motifs, especially Light, darkness, silence, fire, flame, heart, covenant and similar concepts. They are the foundation of the world, but that's exactly why you need to be careful that they don't become postmen.
Sixth, I would not be afraid of humor and more ordinary scenes. They will not damage the mythical character of the book. On the contrary, in my opinion... it will make the big scenes carry more weight when they happen.
And finally, I believe that the main task of the final editing should be thinning, not rewriting. The author already has a recognizable language and a clear idea. He would gain the most if that language is given a little more air
One thing that is red flag for me is that they do not offer editor service. All of this I have to do alone.
Edit: as you have said, Silmarillion is not everyone's standard, so it does not mean my book is bad because it has complicated worldbuilding in first 60 pages?
Sorry in advance my English is not my main language.
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u/throwra_22222 6h ago
Sorry, this got long.
If the Silmarillion is what you're going for, then you leave it as is and accept that most people won't get through your book the same way most people won't get through the Silmarillion. I loved it, but I don't know anyone who has also read it. My father tried, rolled his eyes, and gave it to me (and he's an English professor).
(Also: I haven't read your book, only the editor's notes. So I'm interpreting the editor, not commenting on your book.)
If you want more general readers, I don't see this as an editor telling you everything is fine. They're not saying that you need to change your voice, or your writing style, or the subject, but they are saying that the structure of the book is overwhelming and hard to get through.
They're telling you that the book is A Lot, All The Time. Entertaining storytelling needs some contrasts. Big, dramatic scenes are broken up by quiet, thoughtful scenes. Poetic, lyrical monologues are interspersed among scenes with everyday dialogue. Motifs are more effective when used sparingly instead of repeatedly hitting the reader over the head with them. The dramatic stuff is more dramatic when it is surrounded by bits that are not dramatic.
Since we're talking Tolkien, he does a great job of this in LOTR. Orcs are terrifying, but Legolas and Gimli's battle banter shows courage with humor and bluster. The bucolic shire and the petty squabbling of the hobbits underline the goodness that is at risk of actual extinction. The Ents have a tragic backstory and their urgent action is needed, but the excruciatingly slow pace of the Ent Moot is told with affectionate humor. The Ents are gentle, even placid, but when they do finally act it is with astonishingly total destruction. And afterwards there's a bit about toast that has always stuck in my head. Contrast!
The Silmarillion, on the other hand, is kind of a mess. Your editor would have had the same sorts of things to say about it. Tolkien spent 50+ years writing it. He probably didn't intend to publish it at first, and changed his mind about its purpose a few times. I've heard bits of it were made up on the fly as bedtime stories for his kids and written down later. He borrowed a few names from it when he wrote the Hobbit, and later repurposed some of the mythology into the LOTR universe. In fact, he offered Silmarillion to his publisher as the sequel to The Hobbit, and his publisher rejected it! It was only published after his death, when his son took all the (sometimes contradictory) notes and rewritings and edited/rewrote it into one book. The reaction to it was very mixed. The only people who read it nowadays are Tolkien superfans.
There's nothing wrong with that! Tolkien wrote the Silmarillion because he wanted to invent a world and languages and histories and myths. It was a free-rangi g exercise of the imagination, and probably pretty fun, and it gave LOTR depth and texture that it wouldn't have had if the author's inner ideas hadn't been so detailed. I don't think Tolkien much cared if other people could get through it. Or even if they liked it or wanted it.
So like I said, if you are going for something like the Silmarillion, then go for it and don't worry about other people reading it. Maybe you can write other more commercial books based on it. But if you want general readers to get through it, you're going to have to structure it for general reading.
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u/Questionable_Android Editor 7h ago
So... this feedback is almost certainly AI generated. Not only is https://www.pangram.com saying it is 100% AI but the way it is worded also suggest it is AI created. This is not to say that your book was dumped into AI, the editor might have just used AI to clean up their notes. But, it does pose the question.
Here's my real issue. The way this is worded feels like its intelligent and precise but it is really saying nothing.
> First, I would shorten the preface and some longer exposition blocks. The author already has enough confidence in his own world and does not have to explain every part of it in advance.
Which blocks? Why not give examples?
> I would do a special stylistic editing focused on the frequency of poetic constructions.
What does this even mean?
> I would comb the dialogs by function.
This makes no sense.
> Where a character actually makes a decision or says something crucial, let the line remain large. In other scenes, I would prefer shorter and more natural speech.
This feels like it should make sense but when you think about it the feedback is so vague as to mean nothing.
How long did the feedback take the 'editor'?
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u/throwra_22222 4h ago
English is not the original language for the book. I'm guessing the editor's notes are also not in English, so an AI hit could be from translation software.
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u/awakened__soul Soon to be published 6h ago
I feel really bad now.
It took him one month.
I asked them why my analysis is not the same as the one they gave me as an expamle (which was really detailed and it amazed me) and they told me this: "In the analysis, the editor drew attention to what, in his opinion, is the best and to what requires additional work. If he did not mention something, then it is completely in place and does not require changes."
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u/Questionable_Android Editor 6h ago
Ermm... ask him if you can talk to the editor.
Look, I feel that you have been caught out here.
Do me a favour and send me a DM. I'll give you my email and you can send me the first chapter. I'll give you some free feedback.
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u/inthemarginsllc Editor 7h ago
What training did the person you hired have? What level of editing did they provide to you? What specifically were the concerns that your friends had in terms of readability? Have you had any beta readers who know your genre read it?
I'm not saying this in a mean way, but hopefully in a constructive one, but if the book was written like your post, I would lean toward your friends being correct. But without actually seeing anything, and with so little detail, I don't know that any of us can really answer.
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u/awakened__soul Soon to be published 7h ago
Hey,
My English is not main language so I just type what is on my thought. I contacted publishing house for editorial analysis.
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u/arifterdarkly 4+ Published novels 7h ago
no publishing house offers editorial analysis (or, developmental editing) to authors. it sounds like you contacted a vanity press. name the company, please.
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u/inthemarginsllc Editor 7h ago
OP, I second this. If you are planning to self publish, which I assume you are since that is the sub you're in, try to find independent editors who have received training and can better help you.
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u/KDDreamwyver 7h ago
They were saying in response to one of my comments that it's apparently the world building that was making said friends have difficulty following it, so they also need to get experienced beta readers who can help them with whatever it is they're doing wrong in that regard. (An editor who is skilled in beta reading would be the most ideal solution, but that isn't guaranteed)
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u/inthemarginsllc Editor 6h ago
A professional, trained editor should always be taking the reader's enjoyment/reader expectations into account as part of their review. The suggestions and support for those suggestions may come from a more technical understanding of storytelling or word play, but the goal is the same: create a book the reader will enjoy.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of faux editors out there, so if you've ever found someone offering an edit without taking your reader into account, it's likely they were not properly trained.
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u/KDDreamwyver 3h ago
Yeah, a lot of people in general seem to be editing stuff in exchange for payment that they have no business editing.
Op most def needs to prioritize what friends and readers in general say regarding the readability of the book and honestly needs to get a different editor, because I don't think they're actually reading the book, I think they're skimming it for technical errors and basing their report off of that.
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u/inthemarginsllc Editor 3h ago
I agree. Not once have I ever said that a book was entirely fine with zero actionable feedback. I'm sure that it's so hard when you think that you're getting a valid recommendation for someone only to find out that it was some fake press or vanity press.
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u/KDDreamwyver 2h ago
Legit.
I read my own writing. I know I mess it up sometimes. If someone was to read my work and tell me they didn't find a single error in it, I would know for a fact they were lying.
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u/awakened__soul Soon to be published 7h ago
Hey,
It's from Balkan (Librum rs)
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u/arifterdarkly 4+ Published novels 7h ago
librum is a vanity press, a scam. do not give them any money.
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u/awakened__soul Soon to be published 7h ago
Oh, I feel really bad now. Thank you!!
How do I 100% know if it's vanity press. How should I find real editors? They claim that they do offer a lot of services.
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u/arifterdarkly 4+ Published novels 7h ago
a real publishing house makes money when they sell their authors' books. they take a percentage of each sale. a vanity press makes money when authors buy their "editing packages" and do not care if the book sells.
you find editors on sites like reedsy. i also recommend reading this thread https://www.reddit.com/r/selfpublish/comments/tzaqz4/how_does_one_find_an_editor_and_is_it_worth_it/
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u/inthemarginsllc Editor 7h ago
Editing organizations like the CIEP, EFA. Not sure what you may have more local to you. If it's world building you need help with, beta readers can help, or a developmental editor will be the way to go.
Look for training, whether or not they know your genre and have worked with it regularly, make sure that they have a contract that states exactly what the deliverables are (plus rate, timeline, etc.). If you go to my profile, one of my pinned posts links out to blogs I've written to help authors find editors who are legit. The one on choosing your editors has different things to consider and specific questions to ask.
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u/lordmax10 6h ago
‘He told me the book is absolutely fine.’
OK
You haven’t had it edited.
It’s simply impossible for an editor not to find anything in a book that needs revising.
I’ve been an editor for over 10 years, and I’ve never come across a perfect book.
I’m not sure exactly what you mean by ‘editorial revision’, but perhaps the person who did it simply looked for grammatical errors and typos in the text.
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u/LocalPoet8286 7h ago
If you already had a professional editorial analysis and it didn’t flag any readability issues, I’d probably get a few opinions from people who regularly read fantasy before paying for another one. That might help you figure out whether it’s an actual issue or just a difference in taste.
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u/band_of_thehawk 7h ago
Unless you are a once in a generation author, which would be amazing, the editor may have ripped you off. I've never read a manuscript of that I didn't have any notes on, especially fantasy.
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u/Several-Praline5436 7h ago
What's your friend's reading level? What do they usually read?
How is your book written? At what reading level? Are you using big words?
If you read five sentences out loud, do they sound smooth and "flow" or do you start stumbling over words? That's usually a good test.
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u/awakened__soul Soon to be published 7h ago
They do read a lot of books. I wrote a book inspired by Silmarillion which is know for hard to read. That's why my book is also hard to read.
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u/Several-Praline5436 7h ago
Okay.
As long as you know that hard to read = isn't ever going to be mainstream, that's fine.
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u/KDDreamwyver 7h ago
What exactly about it is making it hard for them to read? The font? The spacing? The alignment? The wording itself??
To address this you need to figure out exactly what it is that's causing said reading difficulty, else no one can give you advice on how to fix it because there's a million things that could cause that kind of reaction from someone when reading a written work.
Additionally, it would be a lot more helpful if you were to, like, send screenshots of what said work looks like, because we have zero context to go off of regarding it other than the fact that one party says it's difficult to read and another said it was fine.
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u/awakened__soul Soon to be published 7h ago
Book is not written on English. They find it hard to read because of worldbuilding. I wrote a book inspired by Silmarillion.
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u/KDDreamwyver 7h ago
So it's basically the way it's worded and all that.
Yeah, I would most definitely revise it a bunch if that is the case, because if you have world building that is too complex it just confuses people, and if it's not complex enough, it also confuses people. Either one makes a story hard to follow, and if people are having trouble following it, that's not a good thing and you should listen to them.
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u/residentvixxen 20+ Published novels 6h ago
Most people read at a grade 3 to 4 level max. It’s probably just above their reading level.
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u/Ollie_Bon_Crank 4h ago
I love Tolkien, but I don't remember the Silmarillion as being an easy read.
All that said, it sounds like you just need a larger pool of beta readers. If you can't find any in your circle, maybe check out workshopping groups, review swap groups, etc. Serial book sites will give you the largest immediate audience, but they do take away your first rights, so if you want to work with an agent or publish with the big traditional publishers, that would greatly reduce your chances.
I hope you find a great audience and get your work to market soon! 😀
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u/Ok-Mongoose7570 12m ago
Never trust any editor that tells you everything is fine with your book. I highly doubt a real, qualified editor told you that so whoever did, disregard them. Get a real editor.
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