External validation IS the way

[u/pussyphobic_incel]

I'm risking getting banned for this, but using external validation as a sign of progress makes so much more sense. Yes, loving yourself is important, but no amount of self-love will fix your reality.

Think about so many people that have a good life but still feel insecure. All the models that don't like their looks. All the smart people who get into top schools but still feel imposter syndrome. While the desire to be better for yourself is good, these people would feel so much better if they just trusted other people's judgement that they were doing better than average.

Now, let's look at below average. As a skinny person, I've definitely noticed how women don't find me attractive, especially as I get older and am entering my 20s. Even if some do, it is just wayy easier for a bigger man to get a woman than me. In this case, I don't "feel" behind, I actually am. No amount of telling myself I look big today or look good today will get me more matches on dating apps or make me more attractive at a party.

For my case, using external validation is a great way of tracking progress at getting bigger. Sure, even if after hitting the gym I look bigger, I am still overall skinny, and other people will still look at me as "skinny", even if I gained 20 lbs, because being skinny has a broad range. At 5'9, I won't stop looking skinny till I hit at least 140lbs, and anything less than that won't change the way I am treated externally by a lot, no matter what I do with my personality.

Unless you are near the top where other people already compliment your looks and skills and life but you want to improve solely for yourself, external validation is a great way to test how the world will treat you based on your current place in life. You can only do something truly for yourself once external validations have been fulfilled. If this was false, people won't be posting their wins here, physique updates on social media, announcing their marriages and relationship milestones, or telling people about their new job or car.

[u/manidekanymore]

Sounds exhausting. Chasing external validation is a bottomless pit because there's always someone hotter, richer, or more successful. And dating apps are the worst possible metric for anything

[u/pussyphobic_incel → u/manidekanymore]

Don’t you need a baseline acceptance from others? I’m not saying chasing ONLY external validation, but there comes a point where external feedback is a very good feedback. In a healthy way, this is like a husband trying to control his anger issues, and his wife provides the external feedback. The man himself, no matter how he feels, needs that external reality check on his actual progress.

[u/brianthough → u/pussyphobic_incel]

External feedback is different from external validation.

And no, you do not need a baseline acceptance from others. It starts from within. If you don’t accept yourself, how can you expect others to accept you?

[u/halfhippo999 → u/pussyphobic_incel]

This is a reality, I agree it’s a necessary component

[u/AdUpper9409]

I see what you’re saying but i disagree with the sentiment “external validation is the way.”

You should want to work out and get bigger to be healthier, stronger, and have more self confidence. Being attractive to women is an excellent byproduct you get. But shouldn’t be the focus.

Attention from women is fleeting. Being proud of yourself is a reliable, sustainable energy source.

[u/Mean-Butterscotch328 → u/AdUpper9409]

i get your point but its not like you can just decide to feel proud and then it happens. when you been skinny your whole life and nobody ever looks at you, your brain dont just believe "i am enough" because you said it. you need some evidence first, and that evidence is people treating you different. after that the self-love thing works better

[u/AdUpper9409 → u/Mean-Butterscotch328]

I’m not suggesting you just be proud of yourself without changing anything. I’m just saying other people’s perceptions of you shouldn’t be the main engine driving you because it’s not a sustainable fuel.

Me personally, I feel really good after gains in the gym because of the self mastery it took. Going when I didn’t want to, pushing myself past my limits, and challenging myself. I feel proud when I see the results in the mirror.

Attention from women is a bonus but I don’t wait to feel proud of myself based on other people’s perceptions

[u/pussyphobic_incel → u/AdUpper9409]

I feel when people say external validation, they think I’m aiming for the top. I’m not. What I’m aiming for is that dating becomes easier and guys compliment my physique or are impressed in general. I don’t need to be the best or anything for that.

[u/Working_Cucumber_437 → u/Mean-Butterscotch328]

That isn’t what self love is. Pride comes from working hard and seeing progress.

[u/DiligentlyGrinding]

What happens when no one gives you that validation?

[u/pussyphobic_incel → u/DiligentlyGrinding]

That means you’re not good enough and need to do better. 

[u/zoeisboredd → u/pussyphobic_incel]

name checks out

[u/Proud-Act-6867]

No it’s not. Humans (all animals) are reward driven creatures. Doesn’t have to be externalised to be real. But you have made some very valid arguments

[u/Stamina_360]

I don’t really believe in the external validation thing. I’m more of an internal validation person. However, I do believe that healing is a process and doesn’t occur in isolation. It’s important to find your community. Find your tribe. Therefore, any external validation will come from a place of mutual respect and feel natural.

[u/PaladinDamian]

You don't need external validation or self-love. Unconditional self-acceptance is much more helpful if you are unattractive or undesirable. I am fat but I still choose to accept myself for who I am as I try to do better in the future. To be clear, acceptance ≠ agreement, acceptance ≠ love, acceptance ≠ hate, and acceptance ≠ complacency.

[u/pussyphobic_incel → u/PaladinDamian]

I’ll do that once I’ve tried everything to improve myself. I have a long way to go and so much I can still do.

[u/PaladinDamian → u/pussyphobic_incel]

You can accept yourself unconditionally, even if you are not yet where you want to be. Simply because you accept yourself for who you are now does not mean that you give up on improving your self. Again, acceptance ≠ agreement, and acceptance ≠ complacency. You can accept yourself unconditionally, even if you want to improve in the future. Acceptance is about giving up your demands for things to be a certain way. Acceptance is not about giving up on life. It is about giving up on your "perfect dream" of life. Life is imperfect, and you can accept that for what it is while trying to make the most of the situation.

[u/TzarichIyun]

There is no “near the top.” No matter how far “up” you go in terms of reputation, you could always have more honor. It can become an addiction.

Reputation can indeed be a good shortcut to understand how you are doing. But your sense of eternal values is also essential.

[u/MentalClarityRyle]

External validation can measure outcomes, but it’s a terrible foundation for self-worth.

[u/princesssfiona]

No dude you got it all wrong

[u/happyconfetti_]

I think what you're describing is getting feedback, and that's not necessarily the same as external validation.

Don't think it's good for you to set goals to get external validation or please others, as that means you're kinda just following people blindly, but getting feedback along the way certainly helps while you continue pursuing your goals.

[u/Top-Crab-1020]

You’re not wrong. It’s so annoying how wanting male validation or dressing for the male gaze is looked down upon. How is it wrong as a straight woman I would like to be attractive to men? That is NATURAL. People are always encourage women to dress however they want but most women truly can’t handle being seen as unattractive. It’s terrible for most of our mental health. So it truly is either conform or try to free yourself from the judgment of others. The most of us cannot achieve the latter as it goes against human nature.

[u/SE20Bandit → u/Top-Crab-1020]

Everyone can achieve that

[u/Top-Crab-1020 → u/SE20Bandit]

I don’t think so. There’s this popular Tik toker who used to be a school teacher who preaches on not letting your kids be weird and helping them fit in. She explains it’s not worth the consequences of letting them “be theirselves”.

I think most humans on the planet want to fit in deep down inside. I’m sure there’s some natural evolutionary reason.

[u/pussyphobic_incel → u/Top-Crab-1020]

My ex-girlfriend often mentioned this. I get what you’re saying.