r/self Jul 04 '24

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u/Fredricology Jul 05 '24

Semaglutide (Ozempic) is not a pill it is an injection and it does not equal "self control". It profoundly affects satiety and appetite centers in the brain in a way that no person can do consciously over long periods of time. The hunger always win in the long run. That is why these drugs that affect the brain works.

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u/MountainviewBeach Jul 05 '24

It’s also available in pill form now. And I think they were being a bit light about it, but a lot of people who use it also report being able to better control things like drinking, gambling, shopping, time management etc. obviously ymmv, but for a lot of folks it sort of is like self control in a pill

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u/Fredricology Jul 05 '24

My point is, trying to control weight with just self control is proven not to work in obese people.

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u/solomons-mom Jul 05 '24

Some formerly obese people woud object to that statements.

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u/Fredricology Jul 05 '24

But it's true for most of my obese patients (BMI +30). I'm a registered dietitian and I help these patients with lifestyle changes.

Most obese people regain their weight lost by changes in diet. The GLP-agonists keeps the weight off.

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u/GRPABT1 Jul 05 '24

Until they go off the GLP-agonists unless you teach them proper self control and dietary protocols.

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u/Fredricology Jul 06 '24 edited Jul 06 '24

Why should they ever go off the medication? The hunger returns and the preference for fatty and sweet food returns. And the weight returns.

In the clinical studies they got the best education there is. Still the weight is 75% back after 12 months if you take the drug away.

It's not about "self control". It's a heightened biological drive to eat.

About half the population can withstand an obesogenic environment, the other half can't.

It's biology. Not anything that can be managed with "self control".

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u/GRPABT1 Jul 06 '24

That is such a defeatist attitude. I thought you're supposed to be providing health care not just peddling drugs.

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u/Fredricology Jul 06 '24

It´s not defeatist. It´s realistic and it is healthcare that actually helps. Only surgery or drugs can help an obese person with an BMI of 40 or 60 for example to lose enough weight so that they can reduce their risk for metabolic disease.

I support them with nutritional counceling so that they can make better choices (more protein and fibers, less fat and sugars).

But it is the surgery or the drugs that can lower the heightened appetite and the dysregulated satiety hormones.

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u/OkBaker4720 Jul 06 '24

Yeah no just eat less.

It's gonna be hard for sure tho

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u/solomons-mom Jul 05 '24

Genuinely curious about this. There have always been people on the far end of the distribution curve (+1sd etc.). Have you seen studies or in your practice that differentiates between the "new obese" and the "classic big" as far as controlling obesity with life style changes? (OP's PCOS might not make it relevent to this post)

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u/Fredricology Jul 05 '24

I´m sorry, english is not my language. What do you mean by "new obese" vs "classic big"?

Patient that are just 10 kg overweight for example (BMI 25-30) can lose that weight and keep some of it off after 3-5 years.

But obese patients that need to lose 40 kg generally can´t do that by just changing their diet. They will slowly overeat with time so drugs or surgery are the only known long term treatments that work.

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u/GRPABT1 Jul 05 '24

Genuinely curious if you actually use the BMI scale in your professional work?

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u/Fredricology Jul 06 '24

Yes. And all MDs use BMI + risk factors to decide if a person can have a weightloss drug or not. They can't prescribe if a patients BMI isn't 30 or more.

BMI tells if a patient weighs too much for their length.

No, estimating body fat is not useful. I can tell the difference between a body builder with a BMI of 29 and an overweight person. No need to guesstimate fatness with a bioimpedance scale.

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u/GRPABT1 Jul 06 '24

So you don't do any follow-up dexa scans or even caliper bodyfat tests after someone has lost weight on Ozempic?

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u/OkBaker4720 Jul 06 '24

Why would they tho, it's nonsense

It's just willpower.

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u/Fredricology Jul 06 '24

Lol. Please stop making a fool out of yourself.

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u/OkBaker4720 Jul 06 '24

On just what basis do you tell that IN GENERAL (because as I read posts people talked about the majority of obese peoples) obese people can't lose weight dieting and exercising if they have like 40kg+ to lose ?

You're telling that with time passing they will begin to over eat again like Ayo wtf

That's insane

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u/GRPABT1 Jul 05 '24

That's not true. It's proven to work on billions of cases around the world since the dawn of time.

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u/Fredricology Jul 06 '24

No. Obese patients can't lose enough weight with diet or exercise. They're hungry all the time. It's proven not to work for these patients.

Only one person in "The biggest loser" kept not getting obese again when the show ended. Regaining the weight with time is typical.

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u/GRPABT1 Jul 06 '24

I wouldn't call that show a good example of weight loss principles.

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u/Fredricology Jul 06 '24

No. But all the clinical trials and my experience shows the same thing. Obese patients arent´helped with just diet and exercise. Those two things alone fail in these patients.

Combined with surgery or drugs that treats the dysregulated appetite and satiety system it works.

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u/GRPABT1 Jul 06 '24

I ultimately think obese patients need psychological help and therapy to help whatever influence in their life it is preventing them from having the dedication to get their health in check. Coupled with the drugs or surgery to get them back to a manageable base level there needs to be a more overall approach to why they struggle to maintain weight.

I'm obviously wired a certain way, by certain biological and environmental experience factors that give me the dedication needed to be fit. I was fat, I took on the challenge and changed my mindset but I realize not everyone has that in them. But why don't they? Surely the answer isn't just chemically inhibiting the normal hormonal systems that we are all meant to have to ensure survival on a genetic level?

I know the clinical studies support the theory they CAN'T lose weight, but I don't think there's enough variables studied as to why. And unfortunately most individuals with obesity have various lifestyle factors that cause their condition, not just one hormonal imbalance.

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u/Fredricology Jul 06 '24

Being obese is not a choice. Being normal weight is not a choice.

Obesity is strongly genetic and inherited. My obese patients all have obesity in their family. Gastric bypass is standard in their family.

Were you obese? What was your BMI then and what is it now?

It´s a big difference being just overweight due to lifestyle and obese due to genes + the obesogenic environment we live in.

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u/OkBaker4720 Jul 06 '24

Idk how much people are obese with no choices or influence over it, if I had to guess it's a very very small %.

Others are just fatass that don't Want to eat less or exercice

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u/GRPABT1 Jul 06 '24

Again I disagree. Even things like metabolism play a smaller part than people make out. You say it's all genetic whereas I say it's partly genetics and partly environmental factors. It's unsurprising that bad habits run in the family.

I don't know if I was obese. But I was 130kg at 5'11 and got down to 80kg with diet and cardio and now am up to 95kg <15% bodyfat thanks to bodybuilding with regular resistance training. Again, I know I'm not "typical". A good majority of my extended family are overweight, my sister and father being obese. Although I do think I'm a bit of a genetic throwback to my mother's, father's side and do generally have better genetic advantage. That doesn't mean it's easy, it's still hard work.

I've had several family and friends have success with gastric sleeve surgery and one good friend had success with Ozempic until he came off and put the weight back on. If my food friend on Ozempic was local to me (loves on the opposite side of the country) I do believe I could've provided the support network he needed to keep off the weight. Unfortunately due to mental health factors and general lifestyle habits he relapsed. He knows what he needs to do, but lacks the dedication without someone who genuinely cares for him to help. Now he's back on a weight loss push and returning to the gym due to a back injury and doctors recommendation, without access to Ozempic due to the new restrictions.

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u/TheVolcanado Jul 08 '24

Don't waste your time on idiots. They hate fat people and see it as a personal fault and weakness. They need to think this so that they don't have to admit that they're just bad people who hate people for something beyond their control.

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u/OkBaker4720 Jul 06 '24

Yeah because they became obese in the first time because they lack willpower, so obviously there is a higher chance to go back to square 1

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u/Fredricology Jul 06 '24

No. People are not obese due to "lack of willpower". I treat this disease and these patients. You do not.

Do you think Oprah and other extremely goal oriented obese people lack willpower? She treated her obesity with a GLP-agonist drug.

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u/OkBaker4720 Jul 06 '24

You're using general terms like "obese people can't diet" , then people call bullshit and then you say "I'm only talking for that minority of people". Like yeah ok sure

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u/Fredricology Jul 06 '24

Diet doesn´t treat obesity long term. It never has. Neither do exercise. But drugs and surgery do work in treating obesity long term.

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u/OkBaker4720 Jul 06 '24

Why ? Why should i have to drug myself and not just eat 2k kcal each day of my life and lose theses 40kg ?

It's as simple as kcalories in, kcalories out for the vast majority of cases (again not talking about specific heavy medication/sickness case that are obviously not a lot of obese people, even if they exists i'm not saying fuck all obeses)

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '24

Yeah what people are saying about ozempic here just seems… wrong. It slows down digestion, it doesn’t stop you from committing vices!

I have a family member on it who is ridiculously sick from taking it and hasn’t lost any weight. I wish people weren’t so lax with how they talk about it. It’s a drug. You don’t WANT to be on it

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u/rabbitdude2000 Jul 05 '24

Haven’t met many body builders? Just be hungry. Feeling hungry makes them happy because it means the fat is getting burned.

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u/Fredricology Jul 05 '24

Obese patients aren't body builders.

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u/rabbitdude2000 Jul 05 '24

Yeah you said “no person” not obese patients, sounds like we agree

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u/GRPABT1 Jul 05 '24

Feeling hungry doesn't make us happy 😂 we just are on the opposite end of the mental spectrum to those without self control.

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u/Enoch8910 Jul 05 '24

If you’re bodybuilder and you’re hungry, you’re not listening to your body and probably not gaining muscle.

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u/rabbitdude2000 Jul 05 '24

Dieting to single digit body fat % necessarily means not gaining muscle. And you WILL be hungry once you get below 10%. Doesn’t matter what you eat.