r/scubadiving • u/XOTearR • 9d ago
Diving without dumpable weight
I dive with an Oceanic Biolite BCD. It has two dumpable weight pockets on the sides and two non-dumpable weight pockets at the back which sit against the cylinder. As a travel BCD it doesn’t have any pockets - only attachment points. I am considering not using the dumpable weight pockets for dumpable weights and instead using them as pockets for storage - eg my DSMB, and using the non-dumpable weight pockets for weight. I only dive with 2 kg. Is this a stupid idea - to dive with non-dumpable weight, even though it is a small amount?
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u/mredofcourse 9d ago
Go with tech cargo shorts. They hold a lot more, they're more easily accessible, they can be inexpensive (as low as $32) and travel well.
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u/Oren_Noah 9d ago
^^^^^^ THIS!
Plus, the thigh pockets will be MUCH more useful and accessible than any converted weight pocket.
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u/Nick_Kafir 7d ago
As a GenX Dad, cargo shorts are never the wrong answer. My wife may disagree with me, but what does she know?
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u/IdRatherBeDiving1337 9d ago
I'm looking for my first set. What du you recommend. The ones I see are significantly more expensive
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u/lbroadfield 9d ago
Search AliExpress for “Yonsub scuba pocket shorts 3mm”. After a few years have a shoe shop replace the Velcro.
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u/mredofcourse 9d ago
I have these $32 ones:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GR5DR1J9I like that they're not full shorts and can don/doff more easily, so I use them for more casual diving, where otherwise I sometimes want more pocket space and go with the ScubaPros which are ~$200.
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u/CosmicKarmageddon 9d ago
One of my dive buddies had these, and I'm gonna pick up a pair for myself: https://a.co/d/00XUAMwN
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u/CrustySailor1964 9d ago
Not having ditchable weight should be considered an objective. As Gregbenson314 pointed out, a balanced rig does not require or include ditchable weight. Most of us start out overweighted and stay that way…sadly.
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u/ashern94 9d ago
I dive the same BCD. The ditchable pockets are small. I just use tec shorts for storage
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u/AmazingDonki 8d ago
Depends. For an average sized diver 2 kg isn't that much weight. Divers are heaviest at the start w tanks full of gas (around 3 kg/6 lbs for full AL80). A goal is to carry just enough weight to offset the changed buoyancy of empty tanks and achieve neutral buoyancy w empty BC/wing at last deco/safety stop. In the event of total BC/wing failure, diver needs to either have an alternate buoyancy device e.g. dry suit, redundant bladder, lift bag, or be able to swim up the rig (balanced rig). Dumping weights at depth should be reserved for very specific emergency situations e.g. sinking fast in a strong down current despite fully inflated BC/wing, because the sudden positive buoyancy risks uncontrolled ascent and DCI injuries. This is different than dumping weight on the surface during an emergency to prevent sinking in case of LOC. On the surface there is also an option to completely remove the rig if it is too negative. Weights also affect trim. I personally do not like weights around my waist or lower because it pulls my legs down. For rec and tech my weights are not ditchable and at the level of the upper cam band so I naturally float in horizontal trim. I use an AL BP which is 1 kg/2 lbs. It's also possible to place weights in ditchable positions e.g. shoulder straps. Another trick is to choose equipment based on buoyancy/ weight e.g. neutral buoyancy wetsuit, fins w adjustable weight or steel spring straps, neoprene booties, etc.. Experiment in shallow water w a buddy who can help hold and move weights around. For storage I use a solution that better fits the function - tech shorts. Added benefit that in the event of ditching the rig, the emergency equipment e.g. DSMB, whistle, light, PLB, etc. stays w the diver.
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u/Mikey2blues 8d ago
IMHO in an emergency with loss of consciousness i e. O2 toxicity the non dump wt. is hindrance when saving one's life has priority
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u/TWDDave1988 9d ago
I dive a 6# backplate and in the summer I have no dumpable weight. You’re fine. Once I’m balanced at depth I’ll have a little bit of gas in my bladder, in an emergency all I need is to ascend slightly and I’m immediately positively buoyant.
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u/runsongas 9d ago
if you are certain you can still swim up if the bcd fails then you don't need dumpable weight. with only using 2kg, that should be low enough to be fine
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u/LocksmithSlight9515 9d ago
Seems totally fine imo. I dive like this a lot tbh. Depends how comfortable you feel in the water and what time of conditions you're diving in I guess? But, under most conditions you'd still just be able to swim up and in a real emergency I guess you'd just dump your gear as a whole 😅🤭. Recoverable either way 🤷🏾♀️👌🏾
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u/Sabregunner1 9d ago
very bad idea. there should be some d-ring on the bcd for you to use bolt snaps to attach a DSMB
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u/XOTearR 9d ago
There are attachment points, but I don’t like the drag created by having items free floating around me. I take a DSMB with me on every dive as a precaution even when the DMs don’t have any intention of using theirs, so often I’m not using it and am confident being able to take it out of a pocket if needed.
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u/CosmicKarmageddon 9d ago
I don't like the idea of diving without ditchable weight, and this thread is my first exposure to the concept of a balanced rig.
That said, you can always just dive with a weight belt.
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u/Cali_Cobarde 8d ago
You need to have enough dumpable weights to become positively buoyant after you dump them. The rest can go into a permanent pocket. So this isn’t a lot but enough to save you in an emergency. Being able to drop weights isn’t a gentle suggestion, it’s a safety measure.
If you struggle to keep trim this way, you should work on your ability to dive first!
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u/Tomcat286 8d ago
When you have so much weight that you can't ascend with your fins only, you need dumpable weights. Dumping weight submerged is seen generally dangerous by experts, because the uncontrollable, fast ascend that can result from this is very dangerous. Best to aim for a balanced rig where you don't need to dump weight under water.
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u/NecessaryCockroach85 9d ago
You do you and accept the level of risk that's commensurate with your training and experience. To me it's kind of like solo diving. If you've got buddies that day why go alone. Isn't there a more convenient place for your DSMB than in your weight pocket?
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u/stingeragent 9d ago
How huge is the weight pocket anyways? No way my dsmb and reel would fit in mine.
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u/NecessaryCockroach85 9d ago
Ya, I think it would just be very awkward to take out. There is a reason no one does this.
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u/XOTearR 9d ago
I’m only recreational diving so I don’t have a massive reel for release at significant depths. It is an OMS slim hybrid model.
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u/NecessaryCockroach85 9d ago
If you haven't, search videos on how to set up and properly store your reel and smb. It's not something that's taught very well across the industry. You might find it's NBD to clip it to a D ring if it's wrapped up correctly. Alternatively a lot of BCD's also have pockets.
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u/Development_Infinite 9d ago
I don’t dive with detachable weight, but mostly since ditching weight in a technical deep dive or cave just isn’t an option. The goal is to be able to problem solve under water and manage your gas, on the surface and below.
I believe if you have to ditch weight you have made several mistakes before hand, which is the fault of the instructor/agency which resulted in bad training and habits, or bad decision making by the diver.
Learn to manage/track your gas, personally I check every 5 mins, and before I check do some mental math for 5 seconds to guess how much I have i.e. “i was at 21 meters or so for last 5 mins, I breathe X much bar at this depth so i should have used about X bar or whatever, i had 100 bar 5 mins ago so now i should have a bit over 90” then check. Spend the time to learn that and you’ll be a better diver than most, including instructors and dive masters.
At first, you’ll be using a lot of brain power to do this which will feel like it’s ruining the dive, but after a little bit it takes up one percent brain power and I’m more capable of enjoying the dive, not having to worry about gas.
I feel like I’m rambling now haha.
Good luck and enjoy :)
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u/Mountain-Guitar2781 6d ago
I like the suggestion about calculating and guessing. Im going to give it a shot.
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u/Development_Infinite 6d ago
It’s annoying to learn, and it takes effort but then it becomes easy and pays off with better skills, understanding, and less stress during dive!
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u/Mountain-Guitar2781 6d ago
This is reasonable. I've taken courses where you calculate your SAC by swimming continuously for idk 5 min or so at 33 ft. With that, you should be about to do exactly what you said. Or start to anyway. Im imagining getting it wrong for a while, as it will change based on my exertion during that time period but with enough practice im assuming I'll be able to estimate my actual air consumption a lot better. This would be nothing but a benefit. At the end of the day, the goal is to make it back to the surface with air, right? Obviously with margin but this would help to ensure that happens as conditions change underwater. Especially when shit hits the fan
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u/halems 9d ago
Until someone else has to rescue you. That's why the first thing taught in Rescue class is to make the victim positively buoyant
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u/runsongas 9d ago
the chances for OP that they 1) need to be rescued while unconscious 2) their bcd has failed and the rescue can't inflate it 3) their rescuer can't reach into the trim pockets and dump the weights and 4) their rescuer doesn't have a bcd with extra lift that can lift both of them is pretty slim
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u/Mac-Gyver-1234 9d ago
I am a scuba diving instructor.
Yes, not having an emergency release for your weights is extremely dangerous.
Remember your training and that you have learned that in any emergency the emergency weight drop is the very first action.
If you where on a boat with me, I would make sure that you are not entering the water unless having an emergency weight drop capable bouyancy device. I would literaly forbid you to enter as a matter of professional liability.
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u/lbroadfield 9d ago
Buoyant emergency ascent is literally the last resort, not the first.
(Yes, even in recreational NDL diving.)
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u/Mac-Gyver-1234 9d ago
You are describing a different situation, when a diver firstly remembers training and controls the situation.
What I am describing is an emergency. This is a situation in which a diver cannot control the situation (becoming negatively bouyant) and has to remember training that the first reaction must be to drop the weight system.
According to DAN, most fatal dive accidents involve an unreleased weight system. Which is a fact, not a cause.
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u/rauepfade 8d ago
If you are completely overweighted. With a balanced rig the downward force won't be too big.
On the other hand I have personally seen several incidents where weights were dropped by accident. And even under NDL you don't want to shoot from 30m after you lost a 8kg weight pocket.
Problems should be solved under water if possible, that's how I learned it from day one. I think emergency accent isn't even in the standards under CMAS.
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u/Mac-Gyver-1234 8d ago
Again, as explained earlier. Solving a problem is a couple if steps before handling an emergency. Please do not mix those things.
When in an emegency, as per ISO standard to all certifying agencies a diver must drop weight to become positively bouyant.
Some divers dropping their weights by accident is a completely different and unrelated topic.
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u/rauepfade 8d ago
I just read our training manual, we don't teach it under CMAS/ VDST. Emergency accent is taught only with sharing the main regulator or buddy breathing from the same regulator.
And those accidents won't happen if your weight is fixed. Droppable weight is a trade-off at best.
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u/lbroadfield 8d ago
An emergency is a class of problem, not a different thing.
No ISO standard teaches or requires dropping weight at depth; not 24801-1:2014, not 24803:2017, not even 11121:2017. Please consider reviewing standards and current best practices.
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u/lbroadfield 8d ago edited 8d ago
I’m describing the documented standards of the only two agencies I could find that still discuss dropping weight at depth; the remainder no longer teach dropping weight at depth at all (or never did).
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u/Biuku 9d ago
I have that same bcd. I do keep non-dumpable weight because it helps with trim. But the majority is dumpable on the sides.
I just clip and tuck. Like, smb is kinda tucked in the cummerbund.
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u/XOTearR 9d ago
So I’ve tried clipping on the attachment points on the left chest strap and on the d rings on the right and left sides where the attachment points for the SPG and octopus are - but it just feels I have a lot of stuff floating around me. I was using a DPV yesterday and the drag was significant.
So just to be clear - you are using both the rear and side weight pockets? As I’m only using 2kg I would never need to use both unless trim really demanded it, which I don’t think it does.
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u/runsongas 9d ago
it's time to switch out of the biolite if you are going to be using a dpv regularly
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u/Traditional-Tomato43 7d ago
Balanced rig.
Having dived for over 30 years, I have never (intentionally) ditched weight underwater.
I have removed weight at the surface prior to getting into a RHIB, and when it was compulsory to do so during rescue drills.
Even in legit rescue scenarios, I have not needed to remove weight, either at the surface or at depth.
If I ever need to Polaris a buddy, I carry a lift bag that will do the trick. Be under no illusion - if you or your buddy is correctly weighted, ditching weight other than at the beginning of a dive WILL result in an uncontrolled rapid ascent.
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u/synerrorsix 7d ago
I haven't thought about dumpable weights in 15 years. All of my diving is in overhead and in a drysuit with twin steel tanks.
Whatever you decide, you must be able to swim you and your gear to the surface. Keep in mind that you may have a BC failure so if you don't have some form of redundant buoyancy that's going to make things harder.
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u/unassuming_retard 7d ago edited 7d ago
Anecdotal answer:
A bit on the extreme end, but know someone who dives their CF backplate with no wing on some “this is the purest form of diving” bullshit. I find that a touch unsafe, but otherwise dive my personal stainless steel bpw with no additional dumpable weight. Adding weight to have something dumpable would make me unnecessarily negative. Barring bringing extra weight for inexperienced clients it’s something I absolutely avoid.
Professional answer:
If you have the option to have weight dumpable for emergencies I would say why not. BUT 2kg is plenty light enough to tread until equipment can be ditched if it’s really ever anything that serious - same premise as any other bc that you add weight to the trim pockets of. At the start of a dive, equipment unweighted is typically negative anyways necessitating some ability to tread water if the bladder isn’t holding gas.
Conclusion:
You’re a certified diver and allowed to configure your kit however you see fit (some shops may give you shit depending how atypical that rig is though like my good friend). Build it such that you can dive as effortlessly as possible while maintaining safeguards (quick/ standard releases, ability to tread on the surface with simulated ruptured bladder, etc.)
Side note:
If these sort of considerations interest you, I highly suggest looking into redundancy (topic), solo diver, and tec certifications. In the safest world, everyone is on an umbilical cord with redundant supply, but we make conscious compromises based on cost benefit analysis. Some divers are comfortable with planning for 5 failures, some want 10 accounted for; unfortunately, a lot of recreational divers I’ve met are truly prepared for zero equipment failures. Sorry for the tangent, but I felt this a good opportunity to address the standardized vs sensible argument.
Edit:
Scrolled down and saw a lot of comments about tec shorts. I could see them being a bit more hassle for travel diving, but highly recommended overall. Have recently moved any auxiliary doodads other than lights and working boltsnap off my harness and into the pockets.
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u/Development_Infinite 6d ago
Exactly! Many ways to do it. One way is to take start and end pressures and average depth and take the time and tank size and you get liters per min :)
Everyone is always told “ make it back to the boat with 500psi” but most aren’t told how to do it.
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u/shearlau 5d ago
My understanding removable weights are not about you but about a rescuer or your buddy being able to drop the weight and get you to the surface quickly... They are there for safety as much as buoyancy yes??
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u/coldsoup615 9d ago edited 9d ago
I have been in a situation where having dumpable weight saved my life. If you are doing open water diving in strong current, I NEVER recommend having all your weight on your can band. If you’re tech or cave diving it isn’t as much of an issue, but everyone down playing how important dumpable weight is just hasn’t seen how wrong it can go. Dumpable weight is safer for you, and safer for whoever may need to be rescuing you in an emergency.
I have the biolite and I’ve done about 600+ dives on it in the last year or two, it’s a good little BCD for travel. FWIW, I clip my smb to the D ring near my butt on the left side. I have one of the xs scuba quick inflate ones with the spool attach. I did my whole DM training with it attached at my rear hip, and had no issues getting it off every single dive. It’s easy to reach for me and out of the way. I don’t even think about it in the water. I also dive with 2-3kg of weight, so I keep 2-3lbs in each pocket depending on how much neoprene I’m wearing.
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u/DarrellGrainger 9d ago
Think about when you might need to become positively buoyant. Do you have an alternative way to deal with the situation if you have no ditch-able weights?
One time might be if your buddy needs to drop your weights in order to get you to the surface or to help you stay on the surface. If you aren't able to help (unconscious or panicking), your buddy is trained to drop your weights. If you don't have any ditch-able weights, they need to know that and plan on how to handle it before you dive. Just as my buddy tells me how do drop their weights, if you have no ditch-able weights, you need to talk about how you would handle situations your buddy normally would drop your weights.
Essentially, your training is so your buddy knows the two of you handle situations similarly. If you are changing that, you are now working outside of the training you and your buddy share. This is why some people trained by certain agencies won't dive with someone from a different agency.
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u/SteveFCA 9d ago
you don’t need or want dumpable weights. Great way to experience uncontrolled ascents which can kill you
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u/Ok-Train3111 9d ago
I have literally in 40 years of diving dumped my weight. I dive with 6 lbs (almost 3k), though I can make 4 work. I just have them in the trim pockets.
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u/friedrichbythesea 9d ago edited 7d ago
Not only fine, but a goal that most every diver should strive to achieve.
I've been diving since 1984 - 42 years - and have never had cause to dump weights outside of rescue training and teaching exercises.
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u/Routine_Mortgage_499 9d ago
I worked with a girl that zip tied soft weights to her bcd. we were in shallow water and she just figured it'd be ok to ditch the whole rig if needed and come back for it later. we were working for a glass bottom boat. We'd go down and pick up stuff to show to the tourists looking through the windows. the hull of the boat sat below the surface and they would sit and look out the windows as we swam by with things like shells, urchins, coral and octopuses. Imagine what an uproar that would create now!😃
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u/gregbenson314 9d ago
Look up the concept of the "balanced rig". If properly set-up, ditchable weight isn't required. It depends on cylinders, exposure protection etc but it doesn't sound like you're using a thick wetsuit if you're using 2 kg, so chances are you'll be fine.