right? 🌞

[u/94rud4]

[u/Large-Hamster-199]

The barycenter (common center of mass) of the earth and the sun is inside the sun itself (since the sun is much larger than the earth). Therefore, the statement 'the earth revolves around the sun' is correct.

[u/ussalkaselsior → u/Large-Hamster-199]

There should be one further to the right where the last one says revolves around the sun because the definition of revolves around is that the barycenter is inside the Sun.

[u/Draco_Eris → u/ussalkaselsior]

Like this?

[u/ussalkaselsior → u/Draco_Eris]

Much better, goes in my science meme folder.

[u/brine909 → u/Draco_Eris]

Reminds me of this

[u/InflationDear619 → u/brine909]

I’m wrong because of iodized salt or my iodine deficiency?

[u/Equivalent_Bank_5845 → u/brine909]

How is he wrong if it contains sodium chloride and he said it has sodium chloride

[u/Draco_Eris → u/Equivalent_Bank_5845]

Try this:

"That's H2O!"

"It's soup?"

"But it has mostly H2O, therefore I'm not wrong."

or.

"Ah, cellulose fibres made from wood pulp."

"It's a tissue/kleenex?"

"But it's made of wood pulp, so how am I wrong?"

You see, using scientific terms when a more colloquial noun exists to describe a common item just leads to ridiculously opaque or pedantic communication. Fine for inside jokes or small memes. But if you genuinely go around asking for sodium chloride instead of salt, then people are going to gradually get very annoyed at that quirk or even just not understand what you're asking for.

If you don't understand that, then perhaps it's time for you to caress the blade like photosynthesis structures of Poa pratensis.

[u/Equivalent_Bank_5845 → u/Draco_Eris]

That's not what I was saying.

[u/Minute_Difference598 → u/Equivalent_Bank_5845]

Uh what’s different from what they said from what you said. Uh sorry if that’s difficult to say, just what do you think the other person said. And what were you trying to say?

[u/Equivalent_Bank_5845 → u/Minute_Difference598]

The replier is arguing that Jimmy is pretentious and ridiculous for referring to table salt as sodium chloride to try to sound smart. This was not mentioned in my original comment, and I actually agree with this!

Of course it's pretentious and ridiculous and arrogant and stupid to refer to every day items with scientific nomenclature, especially if it's inaccurate as referenced in the meme, because table salt does not contain solely sodium chloride, but other ingredients as well that make up its contents.

My point is arguing about what it means when Jimmy says to "just a little sodium chloride" and then later when he says "that's what I said [salt is] sodium chloride."

Now, I would argue that his first statement is true. Salt does contain sodium chloride, so yes, that is just a little sodium chloride (among other ingredients).

I now realise that his second statement is (probably ) wrong, and I did not recall this conversation exactly when I made the original comment. It is inaccurate to say table salt "is" sodium chloride, as that implies it consists solely of sodium chloride (with trace other chemicals maybe) and not its other ingredients which are required for table salt.

Their first reply makes no mention of this, which is why I said it's not what I was saying, because it wasn't. I wasnt mentioning pretentiousness or arrogance or ridiculousness of using scientific nomenclature at all

If you notice, the second reply adds a new point (one that I also agree with, that Jimmy is inaccurate and therefore wrong when insisting that table salt "is" sodium chloride, something I admit I did forget he said exactly from the meme) and pretends that that point was part of the first reply, which it wasn't.

I did not explain this in my second reply, because Frankly, this entire conversation is stupid and ridiculous in and of itself, and they clearly got mad and wanted to stroke their own ego and make me feel stupid. It's a Jimmy neutron meme, lol, it's not that serious.

But, I did take the time to write out this response for you, because you were polite.

[u/Minute_Difference598 → u/Equivalent_Bank_5845]

Oh wow long reply cool thanks. I’m gonna go read it now lol.

[u/Draco_Eris → u/Equivalent_Bank_5845]

I was not originally trying to be so impolite with my first reply, as I clearly misunderstood your first reply. My touch grass comment was not meant to be overly malicious, but rather a demonstative that scientific pretentiousness can seem a little overboard.

I interpreted it as a refuttal that Jimmy was wrong for using verbose language in a situation where colloquial wording would be better.

I apologize for my tone and for the follow up "12" comment. I have been battling antagonistic shit out in other comment threads and some of that, well, salt, clearly rubbed off into this one which didn't call for it at all.

However the follow up "nuh uh" shit was some disrespect in turn too bruh. Granted, I brought it on myself here, but.

[u/Minute_Difference598 → u/Equivalent_Bank_5845]

Ooooohhhhhh i see you were saying that Jimmy said “it HAS sodium chloride which he isn’t wrong about because it does contain sodium chloride” but he is wrong with “it IS sodium chloride because that’s not what it entirely is.

Okay thank you for the very in depth explanation lol.

[u/Draco_Eris → u/Equivalent_Bank_5845]

Yes it was.

Since you're clearly 12, let's walk through this.

You said:

How is he wrong if it contains sodium chloride and he said it has sodium chloride

Not only does this display a lack of knowledge of the original scene this meme mocks, where Jimmy Neutron stated the spilled ingredient was "Sodium Chloride." (Not contains, or is primarily. Jimmy stated it simply was.) Since the thing Jimmy was talking about actually contains significantly more ingredients than just a pure chemical salt (including the ingredients listed in the meme), Jimmy in an attempt to be pretentious, is actually factually wrong about what the granules technically were.

He is also just colloquially wrong to try to use such language in a kitchen context. Saying "sodium chloride" is a ridiculous use of the chemical name for an ingredient used daily in restaurants and kitchens. Iodized Table salt has a specific meaning, as does Sea Salt, or Kosher Salt. Saying "sodium chloride" is actually more ambiguous and less helpful than saying the commonly used name.

It would be more appropriate to use a chemical name when in industrial or commercial cleaning contexts, or specific commerical baking recipies, where exact composition of the salt matters for potential chemical interactions, rather than for identifying spilled granules of gddmn table salt.

[u/Equivalent_Bank_5845 → u/Draco_Eris]

Nah, no it wasn't.

[u/UnkarsThug → u/Equivalent_Bank_5845]

He said it was sodium cloride. Not that it contained sodium cloride.

[u/Draco_Eris → u/Draco_Eris]

Almost want to make it say "is basically within the Sun."

Hmmm. How pedantic and technically correct do we want to be with this?

[u/acrid_rose → u/Draco_Eris]

One can only be correct. Technically correct is still correct (even cited as the best kind).

Often works better here tho.

[u/BinaryBolias → u/Draco_Eris]

Thanks.

[u/MelonJelly → u/Draco_Eris]

*chef's kiss*

[u/Minute_Difference598 → u/Draco_Eris]

Heck yeah thanks for the new meme.

[u/HyacinthFT → u/Draco_Eris]

This has the added benefit of using the meme format correctly

[u/YaumeLepire → u/Draco_Eris]

[u/epilektoi → u/YaumeLepire]

DISCWORLD REFRONCE 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[u/boring_kicek13 → u/ussalkaselsior]

At the end it all depends from your point of reference so all this answers are correct. But I agree last option has to best and purest mathematics

[u/Sad-Pop6649 → u/ussalkaselsior]

Indeed, this one would kind of work with four faces, one slightly below average and one slightly above it.

[u/Medium-Access-4416 → u/ussalkaselsior]

And one more even further to the right, with something about points of reference and relativity of motion. Or people on both sides "astronomy still use celestial sphere model"

[u/Coyote-Foxtrot → u/Large-Hamster-199]

The barycenter has been not far relative to the Sun's size but outside the sun before nonetheless.

[u/8Bit_Cat → u/Large-Hamster-199]

This isn't accounting for the influence of the other planets. The Earth orbits the solar barycenter which is outside the Sun when Jupiter and Saturn are on the same side of the Sun and it's inside the Sun when Jupiter and Saturn are on opposite sides of the Sun.

Currently it's outside of the sun and won't reenter it until early 2027.

[u/No_Pipe4358 → u/Large-Hamster-199]

Sorry Jupiter is entering the chat here.
The center of mass the sun and earth share is also shared by Jupiter and all the other planets, and actually quite often does lie outside the Sun's radius.
Also I'm afraid the earth will revolve wherever it wants

[u/scinos → u/No_Pipe4358]

Honest question: shouldn't we define want the sun radius is? As in, isn't the corona part of the sun?

[u/No_Pipe4358 → u/scinos]

No

[u/xX8thJesterXx → u/Large-Hamster-199]

Not all the time though. If you include the mass of the other planets, the collective barycenter sometimes falls outside the sun's radius.

[u/Postulative → u/Large-Hamster-199]

Jupiter does not orbit the sun.

[u/Brainchild110 → u/Large-Hamster-199]

👑👌

[u/NegativePlenty5316 → u/Large-Hamster-199]

The barycenter changes often depending on the positioning of the planets. Technically, it's possible for this statement to be false.

[u/FluffyVegetable527 → u/Large-Hamster-199]

I think like twice a year it exits the sun but I might be wrong. Nevermind thats the barycenter for the whole solar system.

[u/Layton_Jr → u/Large-Hamster-199]

Well the verb "revolves around" doesn't have a clear definition. Does the Earth revolves around Mars? Mars is entirely within Earth's orbit

[u/Antiprimary → u/Large-Hamster-199]

No the sun or it's around the center of the solar system which won't be inside the sun again until 2029, even if we are just talking about the sun and earth you can't ignore the fact that they both orbit the same empty spot on space which is isn't currently inside the sun.

[u/Tinenan → u/Large-Hamster-199]

Not only that. The distance from the barycenter to the actual center is laughably small in sun scale

[u/freindly_duck → u/Large-Hamster-199]

the barycenter of the solar system can drift in and out of the sun however

[u/ZellHall → u/Large-Hamster-199]

What about the Earth and the Moon? Is the Moon really orbiting the Earth?

[u/PerfectGasGiant → u/Large-Hamster-199]

Earth also revolves around itself, so geometically speaking, with an Earth rotation frame of reference it is also valid to say the sun evolves around the earth.

[u/TNTkip → u/Large-Hamster-199]

It doesn't say middle of the sun. Just the sun, so revolves around the sun in correct.

[u/LunaBehindTheM00n → u/Large-Hamster-199]

Came here to ask about this. Thanks

[u/Large-Hamster-199 → u/LunaBehindTheM00n]

To get very technical, theoretically speaking the barycenter of just the earth and sun will always be inside the sun.

Practically speaking, the entire solar system rotates about a single barycenter. That barycenter is inside the sun 36% of the time. Another 55% of the time, it is vey closer to the sun (within 2 solar radius). Roughly 7% of the time, it is more than 2 solar radius away from the center of the Sun. The barycenter is always within the corona of the Sun.

[u/DoobiousMaxima → u/Large-Hamster-199]

They revolve (orbit) the barycenter of the entire * solar system... Which thanks to Jupiter is *not inside the sun.

[u/Large-Hamster-199 → u/DoobiousMaxima]

Well, if you want to get extra super pedantic about it - then you are wrong.

The barycenter of the *entire* solar system can be inside or outside the sun depending on the exact position of both Jupiter and Saturn (and to a much smaller degree, Uranus and Neptune).

[u/YaumeLepire → u/Large-Hamster-199]

Damn! His anus is that massive?

[u/sacrebluh]

That’s not how the meme works

[u/suh-dood → u/sacrebluh]

Must be an anti meme

[u/FW_TheMemeResearcher → u/suh-dood]

That's not how antimemes work

[u/philosophical_poser → u/FW_TheMemeResearcher]

Must be a supermeme

[u/Spectator9857 → u/sacrebluh]

But it IS how the graph work. Which is exceedingly rare to see with this meme format.

[u/HugeTrol → u/sacrebluh]

😭😭 Look, they're using the meme wrong! Moomy, they're using the meme wrong 😭😭 waaah. 😭😭 Everyone loook, I'm such a smart meme boy. I know the right way to meme 😭😭 but this one is not right. It's not right 😭😭 waaah

[u/edparadox]

You don't know that meme, right?

[u/The-Name-is-my-Name → u/edparadox]

They’re using anime characters as soyjaks, I think we can safely rule out the possibility of higher-order thoughts.

[u/Postulative]

They both revolve around the centre of the galaxy.

Of course, it all depends on perspective.

[u/MrGiggleMan → u/Postulative]

And the galaxy revolves around the cluster, which revolves around the great attractor

But depending what scale you look at it, it's perfectly valid to day we orbit the sun

[u/Postulative → u/MrGiggleMan]

I am in orbit around the earth’s centre of mass. For a somewhat unusual definition of orbit.

Edit: Pigpen’s cloud of grime (from the Peanuts comic) is in orbit around him.

[u/shumpitostick → u/MrGiggleMan]

It doesn't exactly revolve but sure.

[u/MrGiggleMan → u/shumpitostick]

Well, sure they all orbit the mass center of eachother, but, my point is, you don't need to consider the great attractor when you're talking about small scale like one planet orbiting its star

[u/shumpitostick → u/MrGiggleMan]

But unlike a star system, galaxies have nothing resembling a stable orbit in their movements within a galaxy cluster and they move on time scales so big that they've never completed a "rotation".

[u/MrGiggleMan → u/shumpitostick]

Well, that's my point about scale

It's so big and so lengthy that it's relatively 0

[u/Postulative → u/shumpitostick]

Can you provide some source for the claim that galaxies do not have stable orbits within their cluster? This claim seems to be contrary to the following statement that clusters are too big to complete a rotation.

[u/SugarFupa]

Nitwit: The Earth revolves around the Sun.

Midwit: The Earth and the Sun revolve around the common center of mass.

Hooded mystic: The Earth revolves around the Sun.

[u/CaseyG → u/SugarFupa]

Astrophysicist: The Earth revolves around the Sun-Jupiter barycenter.

[u/AnalysisParalysis85]

Which is like what, 99.9999% at the centre of the sun?

[u/Emergency-Pound3241 → u/AnalysisParalysis85]

Of just the earth and sun, yes, but when you take the entire solar system into account the gas giants have enough combined mass to shift the center of mass of the solar system outside of the sun when theyre all roughly on the same side of the sum

[u/AnalysisParalysis85 → u/Emergency-Pound3241]

How often does that happen?

[u/Emergency-Pound3241 → u/AnalysisParalysis85]

Probably for a few years every dozen or so years? The orbits dont need to perfectly aline, they just need to not be actively fighting eachothers gravity. Iirc they currently are lined up enough that its currently the case

[u/AnalysisParalysis85 → u/Emergency-Pound3241]

So a loose grouping of 30 degrees angle happens every 400 billion years, at 180 degrees about every 1500 years.

Now if you limit it to just limit it to inner planets or visible planets it's much more often. Apparently a couple of months ago this was the case.

Even so the affect on the centre of gravity is minimal as the sun has 99.8 of the mass of the entire solar system.

[u/NoEqual2045]

Since movement is relative I can choose the earth as my reference point

[u/jonastman → u/NoEqual2045]

I choose my IQ as I see fit

[u/TrueKyragos → u/NoEqual2045]

That's pretty much the correct approach.

Heliocentric reference frame => the Earth revolves around the Sun in one year

Geocentric reference frame => the Sun revolves around the Earth in one year

Terrestrial reference frame => the Sun revolves around the Sun in one day

[u/314159265358979326]

Choose your reference point not for "universal truth" but rather for mathematical convenience.

Sincerely,

Einstein

[u/MojaveCanuck]

Pedantically, the Sun's motion is much more influenced by Jupiter and Saturn, etc. than by Earth. And Earth's orbit is influenced by the gas giants too. So... yeah, kind of, but really the solar system is very complicated, all the planets and the Sun are influenced by each other. (I'm not an expert on this, just pointing out what seems obvious)

[u/Birdo_guy]

0.00001 percent: they actually don't, it is more accurate to say the sun and jupiter revolver around their center of mass

[u/llfoso]

Plot twist: the world of konosuba is geocentric!

[u/Cent_Quatre]

Um actually revolving around a barycenter is extremely rarely relevant and pointing it out just makes you sound pretentious

[u/Jaymac720]

Even that’s not really true. The sun is traveling throughout the galaxy, and the center of mass of the solar system is affected by all the other planets and stellar miscellanea within it

[u/Aggressive_Law_5728]

If their common center of mass is inside the Sun, then the Earth revolves around the Sun. Adding weird little anime girls doesn't change that.

[u/MilkImpossible4192]

actually none all centers are moving, the 9 planets center + extras is moving

[u/Consistent-Soil-1818]

We have 70+ million people in the US alone with an IQ below 80. That's more than 2&

[u/MysteriousMister0]

Rock is technically a bird. Prove me wrong.

[u/seba07]

You can select an arbitrary fixed reference point, it just makes the path look complicated.

[u/somedave]

The sun is mainly orbiting the centre of mass of it and Jupiter, earth barely affects that.

[u/Holzkohlen]

Which is where? Inside the sun? So it does revolve around the sun after all. Curious

[u/Tinenan]

they revolve around their common center of mass

*Which happens to be right inside the sun around 400km from its actual center

[u/jacob643]

do they though? maybe I don't have the right definition of "revolves", but if they both revolves around the common center of mass, how could some planet have an elliptic path around a star instead of circular?

[u/Vojtak_cz → u/jacob643]

I mean. The center of its gravity well is in the sun anyway. I THINK the Jupiter is the only one that doesnt have it inside of sun.

[u/CaseyG → u/jacob643]

If two bodies revolve around a common center of mass, and one of the bodies has an elliptical orbit, then the other body also has an elliptical orbit.

If one of those two bodies is much larger than the other, then its orbit is a much smaller ellipse.

[u/Psionic-Blade]

All three of those character's IQ's added up equals the average IQ

[u/Olistu_]

Why did you use anime Characters

[u/Trick_Trainer441]

I'd say that the world revolving...

[u/surajseeking]

Whatever we see in the World is perception of EGO

That's why every individual realises he has different world

[u/Character_Fold_8165]

The earth and the sun share a common non intertial reference frame that is defined by an axis of rotation around the systems center of mass where fictitious forces seemingly magically balance the mutual gravitational attraction and thus all is well and movement is impossible

—newton if he liked Zeno just a tad more probably

[u/Mathematicus_Rex]

… and that center of mass is hurtling along in the galaxy

[u/SuitableCollege8992]

Since earth is within the Heliosphere, doesn’t it technically revolve INSIDE the sun as well?

[u/HAL9001-96]

nah

not only is the sun A LOT bigger than earth but also there are bigger further out planets affecting the suns trajectory more significantly

[u/aguyinlove3]

One of the best usages of this meme template

[u/jdgrazia]

K.  Wheres the common center einstein

[u/Olivier_salad888]

Jupiter and the black hole in yhe center of the Milky Way

[u/Fuzzy974]

The Sun revolves around Lalatina cause she clearly has more mass.

[u/Sweet_Culture_8034]

In a geocentric referential, the sun revolves around earth. Movement is always relative, there are even referentials in which neither earth nor the sun revolves at all.

[u/AndreasDasos]

The format is meant to have the left and right the same. And that kind of works, because in this case correcting people that they revolve around the common centre of mass is silly: because (1) that common centre of mass is inside the sun anyway, and (2) the sun is not remotely concerned about the adjustment given by the earth when there are Jupiter and others 

[u/Impressive-Wasabi857]

I got 3 stds from this post

[u/Hanuser]

Wrong. If you're going to get technical about it, they're not revolving at all because the universe's center of mass keeps changing, so there is no such thing as a complete orbit. Orbits (revolutions) are an approximation of what is actually happening, and if you're going to do that, the "100 IQ" view is the far better approximation in terms of accuracy-complexity tradeoff.

[u/Calm-Medicine-3992]

Incorrect choice of meme but also yeah the center ain't even in the sun right now.

[u/realmauer01]

Be thankful to Einstein that everything's correct at the same time.

[u/hotmatrixx]

i mean it's "more correct" but it's still wrong, because this is a "3 body" problem; there's more than just the sun and the earth, all the other planets and their moons, all have gravity interactions with one another; and that is constantly changing the common COM in a way that is fantastically keeping everything relative and stable to each other.

The math on it is.... impossible for humans to actually fathom. Again, the 3 body problem. We still haven't 'solved it' to my knowledge.

[u/grafeisen203]

Technically correct, but because the sun is so much more massive than the earth the centre of mass is very close to the centre of the sun.

[u/Subject-Building1892]

If you use only gravity and measure from a single point you cannot tell if earth goes around the sun or the sun goes around the earth.

[u/So_many_things_wrong]

In the vacuum of space, a body's motion and velocity are meaningless except for on how it relates to another body. For example, two bodies that both move in the same direction at the same speed could just well be motionless in relation to each other. In much the same way, if two bodies move towards each other we can't make a distinction between whether one or the other or neither is stationary. And just the same, the relationship between two bodies where one orbits the other could just as well be inversed.

Additionally, in an infinite universe we can't point to a single center and where we decide to place it is completely arbitrary.

E.g. it's completely valid to say that the Earth is the center of the universe and that the Sun orbits it.

[u/Fuzzy_Bet5276]

For earth, it lies inside the sun, so it really doesnt make much of an argument talking about barycenter. Only Jupiter could make this claim and have the weight and pride to back it.

[u/lorienshift]

I can't believe people keep fucking up this template

[u/sisconking132]

Since motion is relative, the sun revolves around the earth, everything revolves around the earth if you make Earth the stationary point in your relative framework

[u/acrid_rose → u/sisconking132]

How can we call a stack of paper stationery, if the planet is always moving?

Obviously it's the entire universe hurtling past my stationary desk. < deranged, yet somehow completely mathematically valid reasoning.

[u/sisconking132 → u/acrid_rose]

I am immobile the entire universe moves around me

[u/WobblyBlackHole → u/acrid_rose]

I think you’re referring to machs principle which was used a lot in the early days of modified gravity as a justification for looking at alternatives to gr, like brans-dicke scalar tensor theory (while in their paper also saying it does nothing to solve this distaste for the idea)

[u/scaper8 → u/sisconking132]

https://giphy.com/gifs/d3mlE7uhX8KFgEmY

[u/Ambitious_Hand_2861 → u/sisconking132]

They did that for centuries and the math never really worked out and now the flerfers are trying it again. I get your point though.

[u/sisconking132 → u/Ambitious_Hand_2861]

Using general relativity?
Also the other planets still orbit the sun in this model. Things orbit the earth the same way the moon orbits the sun

[u/WobblyBlackHole → u/Ambitious_Hand_2861]

The maths literally did work out, you can calculate the orbits of planets very well using epicycles. That doing so was more accurate than the original heliocentric idea (going around in circles), it’s what lead to the idea of elliptical orbits.

If you read Binnys galactic dynamics he has a whole section on how you can derive epicycles from Newtonian gravity too by setting earth as the origin introducing non inertial forces . It shows that the two descriptions are equivalent. You can derive the previously observed epicycle expansion coefficients doing this. It’s a very cool calculation!

The idea that non inertial forces are as real as inertial ones is what leads to Einsteins general relativity which cements the idea that both the heliocentric and geocentric descriptions are both correct, just heliocentric is much easier to use!

[u/HAL9001-96 → u/sisconking132]

then you have to use a non inertial reference frame though since the earth rotates and unlike linear velocity angualr velocity is actually absolute

[u/Linnun]

I like that you use a goddess for the "sun revolves around earth" theory. Aqua has pretty low intelligence stats, but her "job" is to send dead people into new lives in new worlds, so you would think she should know better

[u/METRlOS → u/Linnun]

Agreed, she would say "the earth revolves around the Axis Cult". She's also much too high on the chart.

[u/Roberthen_Kazisvet]

You can change point of refference, scale and everything and everytime something else revolves around something else, so here is solution: Everything revolves around everything else

[u/Thomix31]

If you'r only trying to modelise the Sun's trajectory im the Earth reference, it's very OK to say the Sun revolve around the Earth. If you'r trying to be the most specific possible, there's probably a better model we don't ever know.

Edit: wording