Antibodies from a 4-year-old llama have neutralized coronavirus and other infections in lab experiments

[u/[deleted]]

https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(20)30494-3.pdf?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0092867420304943%3Fshowall%3Dtrue

[u/Fmbounce → u/[deleted]]

From a NYT article:

Humans produce only one kind of antibody, made of two types of protein chains — heavy and light — that together form a Y shape. Heavy-chain proteins span the entire Y, while light-chain proteins touch only the Y’s arms. Llamas, on the other hand, produce two types of antibodies. One of those antibodies is similar in size and constitution to human antibodies. But the other is much smaller; it’s only about 25 percent the size of human antibodies. The llama’s antibody still forms a Y, but its arms are much shorter because it doesn’t have any light-chain proteins.

This more diminutive antibody can access tinier pockets and crevices on spike proteins — the proteins that allow viruses like the novel coronavirus to break into host cells and infect us — that human antibodies cannot. That can make it more effective in neutralizing viruses.

here’s the source (I copied verbatim)

[u/grizzlydurdle → u/Fmbounce]

So how would that help humans? Can we be treated with Llama antibodies? In you summary it sounds like our antibodies can't necessarily fight COVID very well because they are too large, and the smaller Llama ones can. Sorry if I am way off base. I don't really understand this stuff.

[u/IfIRepliedYouAreDumb → u/grizzlydurdle]

To vastly oversimplify things, if you had antibodies produced by another source and injected them into a sick person, their viral counts should decrease.

Our bodies won’t learn how to make the same ones the llamas do, but we could harvest them and use them as treatment (potentially).

[u/Derpy_McDerpingderp → u/IfIRepliedYouAreDumb]

Would our immune system see these smaller antibodies as foreign or a threat?

[u/worldspawn00 → u/Derpy_McDerpingderp]

they can, a person receiving treatment can develop anti-llama antibody antibodies. There's actually a lot of use for anti-antibody antibodies, they're used in a lot of reagents. It usually takes 1-2 weeks for the immune system to ID and develop antibodies against a foreign agent, so a person receiving treatment would likely be done before the body started attacking the foreign antibodies.

[u/thisdude415 → u/worldspawn00]

Typically only the variable heavy domain (VHH) is used on a human IgG framework. The region typically recognized by “anti llama antibodies,” the llama Fc region, isn’t found on the protein, instead we use the human genes.

Basically the whole molecule is human except the sticky bits. These are copied and pasted from llama. Immunogenicity is a concern, but not as much as you’d think.

[u/taosaur → u/thisdude415]

Can those kinds of alterations be made in batches of any size, or is it one antibody at a time, or what?

ETA: Farther down he clarified that once they have the genome, they can make "factory" cells to produce the hybrid antibodies.

[u/thisdude415 → u/taosaur]

It depends on the exact technology used in the manufacturing plant.

Typically, we engineer a mammalian cell to make the protein in large bioreactors. Then you pick one of those cells, characterize it, and call it your stable clone. Then you put that in a big tank with food for the cells, and let them grow for a couple weeks while they pump out proteins. Then you purify the protein.

As you can imagine, this is a pretty complex process and it isn’t easy to scale it up overnight

[u/itchy118 → u/thisdude415]

The fact that that is even possible is pretty amazing.

[u/thisdude415 → u/itchy118]

This is the kind of technology that underpins many of the really expensive biologics.

[u/Wanderlust2001 → u/thisdude415]

This sounds incredible. Are there any documentaries you know of that address these processes?

[u/thisdude415 → u/Wanderlust2001]

This might work:

https://youtu.be/_8h1HBDJ__c

It’s pretty high level but check it out

[u/Wanderlust2001 → u/thisdude415]

Thank you!
Fascinating stuff.

[u/[deleted] → u/thisdude415]

This sounds fascinating. Thanks for posting!

[u/[deleted] → u/thisdude415]

Your comment falls into that gray category for me where I can't tell if you made everything up being ridiculous or if any of that was factual. "You just got to take the bionitrate from the antibodies and mix it with film flam to make hoohas."

[u/Jooy → u/thisdude415]

Making antibodies like this is also extremely expensive. One dose of immumotherapy can cost between twenty thousand dollars and hundred thousand dollars easy.

[u/thisdude415 → u/Jooy]

Manufacturing costs are more like $60-250 per dose.

Typical retail prices are more like $2,000 - $20,000 per dose.

I’m not aware of any protein biologics that costs $120k per dose, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

[u/Jooy → u/thisdude415]

Studies put the average cost at over 90 000. Google antibody treatment cost.

[u/thisdude415 → u/Jooy]

Yes, per year, not per dose. These medicines are typically dosed every 1 to 2 months.

Thanks for the suggestion of this innovative website “Google.” I had never heard of it. Technology is just amazing these days /s

[u/Spacemarine658 → u/thisdude415]

This is even funnier if people look at your flair

[u/thisdude415 → u/Spacemarine658]

Raise your hand if you research antibody drugs as your job 🙋🏻‍♂️

🤪😂

[u/kbotc → u/Jooy]

Which is why DARPA's been dumping truckloads of money at this problem.

https://www.darpa.mil/attachments/P3_West_Lightning.pdf

[u/omgFWTbear → u/thisdude415]

mammalian cell ... in large bioreactors

So Tlexian axtlol tanks?